Poop Chronicles VI
I honestly thought this series had come to an end for me (at least until/if I give birth to another poop factory). I was content to let Artemis and Janet and Quimby carry the torch of poop tales into the next era of fMh. My babies are growing up. Ha ha ha ha.
I was wrong.
Standard Warning: Do Not read this if Blessed with a Delicate Sensibility or Hair-Trigger Gag Reflex.
You see, Brick never showed a particular penchanct for feces. He had an occational careless moment, but never did he take to poop picasso efforts the way the girls did. Not to mention that prior chronicles were all about children innocently exploring their (disgusting) universe or just taking care of buisness best they could.
No never before have the Poop Chronicles recorded a series of deliberate and methodical malicious premeditated pay-backs.
Brick has been (mostly) potty trained for well over a year. He is three, clothing offends him, he is huge (almost weighs as much as six-year old Blossom), he is still (despite my fantastic parenting) violent and angry. (He is also cuter than a bugs ear and sweet as cotton candy, when he feels like it.)
He has occational poop-in-the-grass incidents, perfectly understandable as he spends most of his time as a kitty (after one such incident I found him sitting on my pillow, unwiped)(and then you can’t help but wonder, how often does this type of pillow-sitting incident happen, and I never knew, and then proceded to sleep on that pillow! ewwwwww!)
We’ve discussed this, no pooping in the grass. He knows better. We’ve also discussed the hitting, kicking, biting, shoving, and hair -pulling. But he is three, and angry. He hates time-out, but apparently sometimes (2 to 6 times a day) time-out is just worth it. (yes, I need to rethink my approach!)(but it worked with the girls!)
A few days ago, he was in time-out for one of the usual infractions. Hitting, shoving, whatever. And he came to me, with wide innocent eyes, and hands covered in shit, “poopy” he says to me. I’m thinking he must’a taken a time-out break to the toilet where a wiping incident occured. But no. No. No.
No.
NOOOOOOOO!!!!!
No, Brick has pooped in the time-out corner. He as proceeded to spread that poop into my wool rug, and onto the walls.
What message is he trying to send me, do you suppose?
I was so traumatized, I couldn’t think of a proper response. I just cleaned him, and it, and called dh and wailed my despair. No consequence. I am at a loss.
But then, he’s done it again. Must I now sit by and watch as he sits? This is as much a punishment for me as for him (I know, I know time-out haters have been saying this forever)(but with my girls the ‘threat of time-out’ and one, two, three is all I ever need.)
Time to get some more parenting books. Woo hoo!
(Just last night I watched the PBS special Raising Cain, which advocated letting children work-out their own conflicts (including violent ones)(unless they’re in actual danger), I’m not sure about it all ,but there were lots of compelling ideas I need to read the book.)
This is what you do:
Make him clean it up.
Have his Daddy [b/c Brick’s anger is directed at you — a 3rd more neutral yet still authoritarian party would be helpful here] get a sponge and a bowl of soapy water and take his little hands and make him scrub and clean and wipe. Then send him off to his room while you finish cleaning it.
He will scream and cry and pitch a fit. But a time or two of this will at least make him leery of doing it again.
good luck
Comment by Not Ophelia — May 8, 2007 @ 9:50 am
It’s a good idea, if dad is home.
I’m crossing my fingers that it doesn’t happen again (and I’ve moved the rug).
Comment by fMhLisa — May 8, 2007 @ 9:56 am
Oh Lisa - I’m so sorry!
It reminds me of the time my brother (he was 2) got ahold of a black magic marker and proceeded to scribble on every surface he could find - the furniture, the walls, the new draperies, the family portraits - everything!
My mom locked herself in her bedroom, called my dad and told him to come home before she killed their son!
Sometimes we as moms need to take timeouts ourselves to ensure the safety of our children!
(As it turns out, my brother became quite an accomplished artist.)
Comment by Patti — May 8, 2007 @ 10:00 am
My brother was “Poopcasso” for a long time. He would just smear crap all over the bathroom walls, all over the towels, all over the floor. Of course he was destructive in many other ways, so that was almost a good day. I send you lots of hugs and lots of virtual chocolate to soothe your nerves.
Comment by Nicole — May 8, 2007 @ 10:10 am
Yeah, I bet he’ll never do it when Dad is home . . .
You might need to make him scrub. maybe you’ll suffer his ‘wrath’ some other way, but it sounds like you do anyway.
Blech
Comment by Not Ophelia — May 8, 2007 @ 10:34 am
I’m toilet training a 2.5 year old, and can really empathize!!!
Spotshot really helps me when my children do this–they enjoy spraying the can themselves, and it almost magically dissolves the, uhm, stuff.
Two weeks after we moved into this apartment, my daughter turned on the sink full blast, put several rolls of toilet paper in which completely clogged the drain, and closed the bathroom door. I heard water, but I kept thinking, ‘my, we can really hear the neighbors shower!’ Two hours later we got a knock at the door from the people downstairs, who’d were having buckets rained down on them. So now I have a different standard to judge my children’s bad behavior. If it doesn’t cost $211 and anger the neighbors, I am not quite so upset!
Comment by Day — May 8, 2007 @ 10:50 am
Day, that exact, and I do mean exact same thing happened to me, the faucet, the closed door, the toilet paper, except we were asleep and the water was pouring out the front door by the time we all woke up. It happend shortly after I started this blog, I think I blogged about it a little like in Oct or Nov 2004.
At the time, it was a royal pain in the rear, but years later, I ‘m really grateful to have new(er) carpet and tile.
Comment by fMhLisa — May 8, 2007 @ 11:11 am
My Waldorf book recommended doing the time-outs with the kids. You’re supposed to go with them and then not interact with them (talk, play, argue, whatever), just make sure they “stay”. That way time out is enforced but still boring. I’ve tried it with my nephew and it seems to work.
Making him scrub sounds like a great idea.
Comment by Artemis — May 8, 2007 @ 11:12 am
Sitting with him, for three minute streches up to six times a day, trapped, sounds like torture to me. For me I mean.
I suppose it would be worth it if it started to be a rare rather than frequent event. I’m just not over confident that he’ll learn his lesson though, he seems very slow in the “lesson learned” category. And if you start something like that, you really have to follow through, because consistancy is key. And dangit, I’m not sure I’m up for spending years in the corner with him.
Maybe I could keep a (parenting) book in the corner. And a recliner, and a small fridge with perrier and lemon.
Comment by fMhLisa — May 8, 2007 @ 11:25 am
I think NO’s idea about making him clean it up is the best one so far.
Have you also thought about giving Brick some alternative outlets to express anger/vent testosterone/whatever? We have a punching bag. It’s useful.
Comment by Ana — May 8, 2007 @ 11:55 am
He’s also big enough to start running laps around the house when he needs to cool it.
Comment by Ana — May 8, 2007 @ 11:55 am
We bought a punching bag. He popped it in about an hour. We need a much tougher one. Running would probably be good. I’m thinking we need a trampoline (and a hole), can you bounce out aggression?
(I’d also need a year supply of maxi-I-have-three-kids-and-incontinence-pads)(I am the TMI queen, no?)
Comment by fMhLisa — May 8, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
it’s time to get that kid a pair of skates and put him on the ice.
Comment by mfranti — May 8, 2007 @ 12:14 pm
Have you tried kegels while squatting? That’s supposed to help with the TMI issue. (It’s also supposed to help (some people) with incontinence.)
Comment by Artemis — May 8, 2007 @ 12:15 pm
yes, yes, I am the queen of yoga and pilates. I can kegel like a frieght train. Oh My Goodness. I should erase that, but I’m not gonna. (you want to talk motherhood, well this is motherhood, by golly!)
Comment by fMhLisa — May 8, 2007 @ 12:18 pm
Um, what about spanking? Just a swat with the hand — definitely no belts or paddles! I was spanked as a kid and while I clearly remember how much I hated the paddle, I don’t harbor any resentment or lack of trust in my parents.
I know it’s not exactly a popular option these days but given what you said about your son’s aggression maybe he’s just not the kind who is affected by less direct methods?
Comment by Proud Daughter of Eve — May 8, 2007 @ 12:23 pm
dh started skating at 3. and don’t worry, they wont “check” for a while. but that would be good for him too.
just about any team sport would be good for him, outlet for energy, and a great place to learn cooperation with others.
Comment by mfranti — May 8, 2007 @ 12:31 pm
fmhLisa–Sorry that happened, but glad to hear I’m not alone!
For some reason, I always have to go to the restroom during my daughter’s night prayers. I don’t know what it is, but I can’t interrupt her, and while she is blessing and being thankful for everything from her cousins to the sky and Winnie the Pooh, I just want to run out of the room! 
I would hate to sit with my child while they were in time out–Time outs are as much for me as as for them. We put a child-lock on the inside of the door of their bedroom, and I put the child in there, (one minute for each year they are old), and I go sit down and eat pieces of black licorice that I keep on hand for these sorts of occasions. Helps both of us recover.
I’m glad people share about their experiences with incontinence.
Comment by Day — May 8, 2007 @ 12:33 pm
I was also spanked. And as I recall (and boyhowdy do I recall), I totally deserved it. I really really did. And I got ’spanked’ with a belt. And I still deserved it. In fact, recalling some of the things I did, I think one of those wood colars out in the stock yard and maybe some ditch digging should have been added to the ’spanked’ with a belt.
But I still haven’t really decided what I think about spanking and physical punishment and all as a parent. I don’t personally feel like I was traumatized, I don’t resent my parents. But it’s a different world (better in many ways, worse in others), and spanking isn’t as acceptable as it once was, for the best. Violence begats violence, and such. I mean looking at common punishments from centuries ago just look so barbaric now, nailing ears to the wall, and whipping, and hanging theives. I don’t personally put spanking in the same category, but it’s still, well, violent.
I don’t know, I tend to be against it. But sometimes, sometimes! Sometimes!
(Anyone else still traumatized by that whole thing in Outlander) (raise your hands, I’ll sense it)
Comment by fMhLisa — May 8, 2007 @ 12:37 pm
I’m not an expert in these things (I am not a parent), so you can take my advice as someone without much direct experience in these things. Still, I offer my 2 cents as the oldest sister of an angry, stubborn, push-the-limits boy (I spent a lot of time watching my parents figure out how to deal with his constant anger and defiance).
While my parents did try to figure out consistent consequences that will have an effect (which it looks like you’re doing), one thing that ended up being helpful with my brother was setting up a reward system (my guess is that you can find examples in books on defiant children or children with ADHD).
Probably what will help the most in the long term is addressing the anger that is prompting the problematic behavior: help him to figure out what’s triggering it, how to manage it in better ways, etc.
Anyway, take all of these comments with a grain of salt, since my knowledge has been gained second-hand. And I’m sorry you had such a stressful experience!
Comment by Seraphine — May 8, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
NO–
Are you concerned about the physicality of forcing his hand to clean? I’ve done things like this (picking up toys, not poop) and always felt a little oogy about the use of physical force.
Comment by Julie M. Smith — May 8, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
Ours is one I got for my husband for Christmas, a big heavy Everlast bag, not poppable. It just sits on the floor; we’ve never hung it up. But I can still assign the kids to go punch it as hard as they can 10 or 15 times.
Three was the very, very hardest age with my boys. Hang in there, Lisa.
Comment by Ana — May 8, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
I’ve used reward systems before with my daughters, but the problem with him is he is still so little. He’s only just getting to an age where I think he would understand that he was getting a reward at all . . . and what it’s for, maybe not? Punishment can be immediate to a behavior, whereas positives have to come before potential behaviors, and be given out (perferably slot machine style) at random intervals attached to specific praise for positive behaviors. Maybe there’s a way to do it for a barely three year old, but I haven’t figure it out myself. He just wouldn’t understand the concept of “if you don’t hit anyone for an hour you get to paint this rock”. But he will get there before too much longer. Thank goodness.
Comment by fMhLisa — May 8, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
also, i’ve been assuming that a lot of his anger comes from being the baby (I totally sympathize as the baby myself). He gets left out of all the big kid stuff, he can’t be as independent, he can’t express himself as well (signing time videos have helped a lot with this).
Comment by fMhLisa — May 8, 2007 @ 2:20 pm
And suddenly I’m rather nervous about adopting a son. Not hesitant about the adoption or anything, just nervous about poop. I grew up in a house of girls. Is this one of those things which might actually be linked to the “y” chromosome? eeeeeeeeek.
We got swatted for bad behavior. As a deterrent, he lectures and “to your room!” banishments from dad were much worse than the swattings from mom. The swattings only lasted a second; lectures could bore us for a good 15 minutes.
Comment by Janet — May 8, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
My kids all sort of potty trained themselves at the age of three, I was very lazy about it.
But my grandson, who is eight, still has “accidents” which I find quite maddening. He gets poop all over trying to clean himself up. I don’t yell at him, but I just think there’s something wrong with an eight year old who poops his pants regularly.
Comment by annegb — May 8, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
A friend of mine recently had a poop experience with her three year old boy. He was being “the bad” kind of quiet so she went to check on him. There he was happily driving Hot Wheels through his mountains of poop–across the carpet, over the bed, up the wall. Aaagghhh!
With my 2 1/2 year old, I haven’t even wanted to attempt toilet training yet, but I know it’s time.
I don’t think we better get these two boys together, Lisa, because they sound way too similar. My son is currently in the “escape the house at any cost” phase. We have chains and hotels locks on all the doors, but if we accidently forget to lock one of them, he’s two blocks away in 3.5 seconds. Very unnerving! He’s also having the anger issue and I’m not sure what to do about it. It’s mostly focused on his sister who’s seven. But, wow, he can hit, pinch, and pull hair like the best of them.
I’m trying not to spank because I think that just enforces his use of violence, but it’s not so easy. The thing that has worked the best so far (and that’s not saying much) is to put him in bed. Of course, he gets right back out, but after two or three times, he’s a little more repentant at that point. Should be an interesting 16 to 18 years ahead….
Comment by ErinG — May 8, 2007 @ 6:19 pm
Lisa-
as a mother of two obnoxious boys (you have met them…) I suggest finding what he dearly loves and cleaning it up with that. Go ahead and laugh while you do it. Do not show weakness or disgust. Boys thrive on that energy. (JoJo has recently taken to sniffing butts, a habit learned from his new dog) Anything gross is funny to them.
perhaps that is a little harsh hmmm…
you could just take away aforementioned object, but I prefer to psych them out a little, and he did just poo all over your rug…
Comment by just call me Cassandra... — May 8, 2007 @ 6:40 pm
I have a similar 4 year old son. We had a completely terrible incident with poop smeared over a horribly large area fo carpet several months ago. As I spent the next several hours gagging on my hands and knees as I cleaned it up, I remember hoping that this was one of the truly low points of my life. My sincere regrets, Lisa.
As for consequences, I’d love some good ideas. As Julie implied in her comment, I’d be a little concerned about the logistics of physically forcing the clean-up as NO suggested. If we’re both upset, it would be disasterous, me getting more forceful, him getting more resistant and defiant. I shudder to think of it. If we’re reconciled and feeling good, it would be a huge treat for him. He loves cleaning with me, and I’m afraid the individual time together would be an incentive for him. And there’s no way I couldn’t be heavily involved, not trusting him to clean up on his own without making a bigger mess.
As for spanking, I would never dare trust myself to begin hitting my child, especially this one. The rage I feel sometimes in a bad moment is frightening. If I allowed myself to hit, I would be geniuinely afraid of what could happen.
Comment by Gina — May 8, 2007 @ 6:44 pm
am i the only mom who feels rage towards the kid? you know, the kind that makes you so crazy that you consider beating the crap out of them only to realize that you would go to jail, lose your kid and spouse and that it’s really not worth it.
I feel better now.
yes, i realize it’s what you do i
Comment by mf — May 8, 2007 @ 6:51 pm
oops.
Comment by mf — May 8, 2007 @ 6:51 pm
mf–I once babysat a child who stood on top of my piano and proceed to spit on an kick it. Never in all my years had I wanted to smack a kid, but at that moment, I felt so angry i wanted to pitch him out the window. Which is of course ridiculous, a child is worth more than a piano. But still. I felt it. Rage existed. I had to go in the other room for five minutes of deep breathing.
Comment by Janet — May 8, 2007 @ 7:11 pm
Janet, be not afraid! Boys are awesome! Mom gets to play with Legos! It’s all good!
(None of my kids have done the poop-smearing thing, by the way … plenty of other naughtiness and mess but not that particular one. Maybe people are right when they say God only give us what we can handle!)
(That last thing was a joke! A joke!)
Comment by Ana — May 8, 2007 @ 7:20 pm
I used the cold shower approach with my kids. Each of my 3 got to the point where they pooped their pants even though they were potty trained and knew better. I calmly said that they had to get cleaned up, put them in the bathtub, turned on the shower lukewarm-to-cold (with no comment on the temperature–as far as they knew that’s the temperature of the shower) and cleaned them up matter-of-factly (as they screamed). Logical consequence that deterred my kids from trying it again.
Comment by Sara R — May 8, 2007 @ 7:49 pm
Ana–one of the HUGE perks to having kids has got to be that I can now buy the toys I always wanted but my mother would not let me have: race cars, tinker toys, really intricate legos, and yes, an easy-bake oven. I mean, how cook is it to bake a cake with a light-bulb?
My father is so excited at this first grandchild that my mom told me he was picking out a fly rod for the kid. The kid who has not yet been born. Heh. How adorable is that?
Comment by Janet — May 8, 2007 @ 8:02 pm
Oh, and while neither me nor my two sisters play “poopcasso” that I know of, we DID smear copious amounts of butter all over the floor and draw pictures in it. Not only is this a waste of butter and very hard to clean, but we were tight on funds when I was a kid. I’m sure my mom did not appreciate the cookie-ingredients being turned into floor wax.
Also, at some point I figured out that if you sprayed a candle out with Lysol it would NOT put out the flame and eliminate the smell (my intention was to keep mom from knowing I was lighting candles). You’d think the melted wax all over my face and the singed eyelashes would’ve deterred me, but no. We started drawing things on the road with Lysol and then setting them afire when cars drove by. It’s a miracle I was neither killed nor arrested.
Comment by Janet — May 8, 2007 @ 8:05 pm
I’d be more worried about #1 than #2 if I were you, Janet - big yellow sticky puddles around the toilet. As a coworker said, “If you judge from the way men use a toilet, their aim is so bad it’s a miracle any woman ever gets pregnant!”
Comment by Quimby — May 8, 2007 @ 8:11 pm
I don’t have a three year old but several friends do, and they use sticker charts for positive reinforcement. The kid would get a sticker for doing a certain thing (whatever they were working on at the time). They could “earn” a prize or a special treat by getting a certain number of stickers. Also, something my mom taught me (she works with special ed preschool age kids) is the smartie reward system. You get a big jar of smarties (or jelly beans or m&ms or whatever) and when they do something positive, you put one smartie in their own little jar. If they do something negative, you take it out (or eat it yourself…) . They get to eat what is in their jar at the end of the day. I used to use that with the two little boys I babysat in high school–they were constantly pounding on each other–and it worked great. I would eat the m&m right in front of them, though, and they would stop fighting immediately. Over time it changed their behaviors, too.
I have no advice for the poo issue. That sounds horrible. I hope my 15 month old never tries that. I think I would run away.
Comment by Braids — May 8, 2007 @ 8:54 pm
I’m sorry, Lisa.
I feel incredibly lucky that no one has ever smeared poop on anything. Once my daughter pooped in the corner of our Japanese tatami mat room, and that was a truly unfortunate incident. But no smearing.
I think the shower idea isn’t bad. Does Brick get a lot of exercise? Someone suggested to me once to make sure my kids got more exercise, and that helped some of their restlessness problems. Of course, when they get too tired their behavior doesn’t improve, it devolves!
Janet, take cheer. My son never has pooped anywhere he wasn’t supposed to, except his pants… about 10 times… since he has started kindergarten this year. And he lies about it (no, I didn’t poop my pants!!)
All in all, he’s been way easier than my daughter. Little boys are great!
Comment by meems — May 8, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
You fans of all things fecal must have enjoyed The Sopranos two weeks ago, in which Vito Spatafore’s troubled son defecated in his school locker room shower, and then proceeded to reenact the Lucy Ricardo grape-stomping scene.
Comment by gst — May 8, 2007 @ 10:44 pm
gst, I haven’t seen that episode yet! Don’t ruin it for me!!!!
Comment by Quimby — May 8, 2007 @ 10:50 pm
I have to make sure my wife doesn’t see this. It’s hard enough trying to convince her that we should start having kids before we’re 40. If she sees this, she’s going to just want to adopt potty-trained teenagers.
Lisa, you’re a wonderful mom. The fact that you can laugh at this sh*t (literally) speaks volumes for your Christlike attitude.
Comment by Bro. Jones — May 8, 2007 @ 10:51 pm
annegb–I had bladder control issues until I was probably 6 and the thing that finally got me to take going potty seriously was my parents taking awy my panties and making me wear a diaper like a baby. I still remember the embarrassment of wearing a diaper. I still had accidents (bladder control was tough because I had a number of serious bladder infections pretty young) but they were far less frequent.
Lisa–good luck! hang in there, and I really hope something works soon.
Comment by kristine N — May 8, 2007 @ 10:52 pm
I forgot that they have to redub the whole thing in Australian accents before they ship it down to you. Sorry.
Comment by gst — May 8, 2007 @ 11:00 pm
Lisa, I’m curious about how Brick’s sisters treat him. I know you’re a youngest, but just as another perspective all of my youngest child angst came directly from how my siblings, and not my parents, treated me (more specifically they bossed me around like it was going out of style).
Comment by Starfoxy — May 8, 2007 @ 11:11 pm
Okay, you’ve already told me the main plot point (I mean, come on, can anything be more important than grinding poo into the tiles?) so you might as well spill it with the rest of the story . . . Feel free to add the Australian accents if you’d like.
Comment by Quimby — May 8, 2007 @ 11:15 pm
my sisters friend uses the cold shower when her son gets angry. i think it works. when i potty trained my son he had just turned 3. and i put real underwear on him so that he could tell when he did it and then if and when he did, i made him help me clean it up. that did the trick. i would also love some help with the anger. my son is 3 1/2 and i just don’t know what i’m going to do with him!!! someone said something about how the rage they feel scares them. i feel that exact same way.
i bought the book raising cain, because some good friends thought it was great, but i haven’t read it yet. its on my list!
Comment by Terina — May 8, 2007 @ 11:21 pm
You guys scare me. Seriously. I already feel scared of raising boys– I grew up with 5 sisters and one brother who is so mild mannered, he never did things like poo or bite. Is it just a guy thing?
I think that I would have to take a long nap every time a poo incident happened. (Nap involving a novel, a blanket, a couch and a Toblerone. Actually, maybe not a Toblerone.)
Comment by sare — May 8, 2007 @ 11:52 pm
wow lis! i’ve never even heard of the feces-smearing phenomena! that stinks! (bad put intended). my kids were potty-training dreamboats. only 2 wet beds in their combined 17 years of living…and those were both after being uprooted mid-school year and starting at a new 1st grade. the kid was traumatized by the incidents, but we downplayed it as normal, and everything’s been fine since.
you could threaten to send brick to live with me if you want!
remember: chocolate. it’s not just for breakfast any more!
♥
Comment by blue — May 8, 2007 @ 11:56 pm
Lisa:
Taken in isolation, this story is somewhat amusing and a little appalling, as you no doubt intended when sharing it. However, I seem to recall that you have shared some other incidents involving Brick that included either destructive behavior or what seem like failure to take social cues.
Some children are prone to mischief, but the impression I am getting is that your son’s mischief is a little on the extreme side.
Obviously, a blog does not covey a complete picture of your son and his personality. But I am reminded of living in a ward where one of the small girls was constantly involved in destructive, sometimes self-destructive behavior. We thought it somewhat amusing and a little appalling until she was diagnosed with a form of autism. She really had a disability about picking up socialization.
I’m not saying that your son has such a disability, since I don’t have enough information from a series of blog posts to even guess that is the case. But perhaps you might want to put some information on autism on a back shelf in your mind and just remain watchful. Probably it is information you will never need, but it doesn’t hurt to be aware of such things.
Comment by obi-wan — May 9, 2007 @ 12:13 am
Been there, done that. The only thing that worked for me in regard to potty training,(and poop creative art projects) was the sticker on the calendar for everyday they did their job properly, in the right place. Each time they did the deed, they got not one or two pieces of candy, but a whole hand full of treats from a huge bowl. They also got to pick a toy from an assortment of dollar type stuff. At the end of the day, if all went well, sticker on the calendar, and at the end of the week, they got a special weekly prize. Some of the stuff was non monetary, (activity based) others were. I bought the toys only santa would bring (the good stuff) and each good week meant they could have the big toy for 2 days. Then, back on the shelf, in full view, to be earned again. The whole idea was to overwhelm them with positives, so that going to the potty was the most fabulous thing in the whole world. If they had an accident, or poop art happened, no recrimination.No yelling, no time out, just matter of fact, ” Bummer. no treats for you.”
It was expensive, (about $150. over a month) but within a week even my slowest child got the idea.Very worth it. That was over 13 years ago, and I am happy to report it has been years since I had to clean up a mess. My babies are now all in high school and I see the end in sight. Ya hoo!!! Positive will always win over negative.
Comment by heather — May 9, 2007 @ 6:38 am
fmhLisa, how could you bring up smeared poop AND that scene in Outlander in the same blog. I was already feeling brave, reliving my own kids’ poop chronicles, reading about more horrificness, and then you dump (pun intended) that scene on me? Now I am truly traumatized. I’m even sorta twitching.
My sister’s twins had no aversion to their own or the other’s poop. They would climb into each other’s cribs in the early morning, undo each other’s put-on-backward-and-pinned sleepers, take off their poopy diapers (which she duct-taped), and party. Shudder.
heather (#51), so how long did you keep up the reward-fest so your potty-ers didn’t relapse?
Comment by Idahospud — May 9, 2007 @ 5:45 pm
Jamie can spank me anytime. rar.
Comment by EmilyS — May 9, 2007 @ 5:50 pm
oh, wait. That’s not the scene you meant, was it…
Comment by EmilyS — May 9, 2007 @ 5:51 pm
Wow.
This is possibly the most horrifying thing I have ever read. It makes me consider the seed of truth behind one of my sisters’ sayings: “Families are forever. Be smart. Don’t start.
Comment by Latter-day guy — May 9, 2007 @ 11:04 pm
Thankfully, while families are forever, we’re all toilet trained in the Celestial Kingdom. I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that only people in the Outer Darkness aren’t toilet trained. But I might be making it up. You never can tell with me.
Comment by Quimby — May 9, 2007 @ 11:08 pm
Oh, Lisa, ouch!!!!! I feel for you. I’ve challenges with my kids but not poop smearing. But I did laugh out loud, thank-you for that.
The sister missionaries in our branch told us that the branch president’s wife told them “they say kids bring joy, I want to know - where the hell is it?!!!”
anyway, it sounds like you and your son are engaged in a major power struggle. no one wins these things. your kids will do three things every day for the rest of their lives….and force doesn’t help - sleep…go to the bathroom….and eat. Disengage emotionally and make it his problem, not yours. Let him clean it up, cold showers, etc.
good luck
Comment by jeannine — May 10, 2007 @ 6:02 am
p.s. I feel spanking is an act of violence and I don’t recommend it. I tried it with my first kids after everything else I could think of didn’t work….only to find better ways later.
Comment by jeannine — May 10, 2007 @ 6:05 am
Poop is poop. Yeah, it’s gross, but it’s not the worst thing that can happen. For everyone turned off to having kids over poop, I would say you were already turned off to having kids. And yeah, cleaning it up off the wall sucks, but you’re still having to wipe it off the kid’s butt for at least 2-3 years anyway. Times that by however many kids you have…
But it will pass. Lisa, you’re doing awesome. I agree with making him clean it up. Works with my kids (milk, marker, dirt, etc.). But yeah, one day he’ll grow up and you’ll have these awesome stories to embarrass the crap (haha!!) out of him…
Comment by cheryl — May 10, 2007 @ 11:01 am
No no Spud, I wasn’t talking about that scene, sorry to traumatize you, again. Yes, Emily, I was talking about that scene. What with the spanking references and all the corporal punishment talk and all. It just came to mind. Which is an entirely different bowl of fish than Spud’s (justified) trauma at the mere mention of poor yummy Jamie.
La, la, la.
I did want to say, that I probably paint a worser picture of Brick than is justified. He is a challenge, but he has his lovely moments too. But it’s really boring to read about the happy good things people’s kids do.
I’m really thinking I need to put Raising Cain at the top of my reading list, and one recommended by Mary Pipher, Real Boys. (Spud, I think you should too, since you’re planning the school school thing this year for your little man. And they talk a lot about school pressures) One of the things that really struck home to me, that I realized I need to figure out in myself in that Raising Cain PBS thingy was how we tend to fear our boy’s physicality and imaginations, and we’re communicating that badly teaching boys to loath their inner lives, and then with all the mixed signals about violence. It was a bit unsettling and I’m still not sure what I think about all the ideas, but i do think what with this wild boy I got (instead of the sensitive piano playing boy I put an order in for) I need to study this. I want him to make the best of who he is, rather than trying to force him into something he isn’t. Which isn’t to say I want to use the ‘boys will be boys’ excuse, only that I want to somehow channel who he is (a very strong, physical, imaginative, determined person) into something positive. If I possibly can.
Comment by fMhLisa — May 10, 2007 @ 11:40 pm
So, instead of getting the sensitive boy who plays piano, you got the boy who beats up the sensitive boy who plays piano!
Comment by Quimby — May 11, 2007 @ 12:01 am
Oh the irony!
Comment by fMhLisa — May 11, 2007 @ 12:32 am
For everyone turned off to having kids over poop, I would say you were already turned off to having kids.
i was all for having kids but the poop thing was hard for me. i don’t think it’s good to connect the two. having kids is great. you don’t have to like it all or even be able to handle it all perfectly to be turned on to having kids. imo.
as for me and my house, potty training did not fully happen until they had the poop thing nailed. that came first. then we did the other. yes, it took longer than for most kids (like a year or two later and a process that lasted months), but for my sanity it was soooo worth it.
Comment by anonon — May 11, 2007 @ 12:42 am
I’m still stuck back on “Kegal like a freight train”… hah! I sent this link to my sister and BIL.. they have had many a poop catastrophe with their 3, and remarkably, I have wiped enough of those butts to not be phased by this delightful discourse..
Comment by Cassie — May 14, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
“those butts” being my niece’s and nephews’.. of course…
Comment by Cassie — May 14, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
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