Small Sins
in favor of fire and brimstone for the gun manufactures
who don’t worry their pretty little heads over much
about where their machine guns end up.
But that’s easy - - - Oil executives, sex tourists, Hitler - - - so easy to condemn,
may they rot in hell.
But I wondered as I looked at that picture: Who sewed that tiny little camouflage uniform? Did it even occur to her (I assume) as she pushed the green material through her machine, to wonder about its purpose? Did she go home and feed her children and cry herself to sleep?
Did a pattern maker when asked to create a template for military uniforms sizes 6-10 even blink before doing so?
Was the factory manager remorseless, motivated by greed, or did he act out of desperation to keep his factory open, deeply concerned for his workers? Did he fear the consequences of not complying?
Did anyone see an order for child size uniforms and just walk away? What kind of hardship did they suffer for this moral stand?
It’s easy to condemn the simply evil, but most people aren’t. Our motivations are complex and our sins are small or necessary or thoughtless or convenient. I’ve never sewn a tiny military uniform, but I’m sure I own things that were produced by child labor. I know I have habits that contribute to global warming. My dh has worked for companies with practices I find repellent, and I cashed the checks. I buy things I do not need, and spend time on frivolous pursuits rather than dedicating myself utterly to ending hunger or slavery or genocide.
We are all guilty of small sins.
One of those small sins is judging others. A small sin to me may not be so small to you or not at all to someone else.
Comment by Yet Another John — March 24, 2008 @ 10:33 am
Oh Irony. I felt (fairly or not) rather judged by that comment. Perhaps I misread.
It’s an interesting question, though, when does a sin become a sin? If one never thinks about the origins of things we buy, are therefore not responsible for the consequences of their manufacture? Is there an ignorance defense in sinning? Is there a distance defense, if I buy the shoes I don’t need without a thought for how many children that could feed far away in Ecuador, is there no sin?
I’m torn, a part of me thinks it unfair to hold us all responsible for so many things we can barely grasp. There are so many mitigating circumstances. Another part of me says we must be responsible. We must try harder.
Comment by fMhLisa — March 24, 2008 @ 10:49 am
Lisa,
I have honestly never considered the small uniform producers. Whoa. Thanks for something new to chew on today!
Comment by cchrissyy — March 24, 2008 @ 10:54 am
The purpose of life on this earth is all about trying harder, but doing so with order, patience, love, and forgiveness (towards ourselves and others).
I do what I can, when I can. There are times when I can only afford to buy what is cheapest, and there are times when I can give to others and make smart, green, politaclly correct choices.
I think one of the reasons why we are not supposed to condemn is that it is so easy to do (and, yes, situations like those you highlight above make it all too easy for me) and yields few, if any, results. Don’t fret about what you can’t do, and instead put energy into what you can do.
Comment by Liz — March 24, 2008 @ 11:01 am
Here is something I find ironic: how come on the same site, we cannot make “moral” judgments about things like women choosing to be prostitutes, but we can make “moral” judgments about what other people buy (“if I buy the shoes I don’t need without a thought for how many children that could feed far away in Ecuador, is there no sin?”)
I think I get your point that we need to carefully consider all of our actions and their impact on the environment, other people, and world, but I am not sure I get everything in this post. Are you saying I should feel guilty, that I am sinning, because I don’t buy into the political propaganda of global warming? Or that because I am not “utterly” dedicating ALL my time to ending hunger that I am somehow sinning? What about ending the hunger of my own kids? Or that because I occasionally buy something I don’t need, or spend too much on a dress, that I am doing damage to someone else?
I do agree that we should be concerned about child labor and do our best to not buy things produced that way.
I highly doubt that the same people making dress patterns for the U.S. are the same people making child military uniform patterns. I suspect that the people making these patterns and sewing these uniforms are in the countries of the children who are wearing them. Perhaps the women in those countries who are sewing these uniforms and sending their children to war should rise up and say, “Stop sending our babies to war” or “Stop feeding us this propaganda”. Perhaps we should find ways to support those women when they do (like U.S. military action? Or is that also taboo?)
I also don’t think that we Mormons believe “there-is-no-hell”. I think hell will be getting to one of the other two degrees and realizing that we missed out on a lot of opportunities and blessings. With eternal remorse, who needs fire and brimstone?
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 11:08 am
I don’t know, Lisa.
Look at the sleeves and the pants. That’s not really a uniform for a 10-year-old; it’s a small-size adult uniform, being worn by a 10-year-old.
And, as for small uniforms — even if it was a small uniform, I don’t know that that’s a sin on the part of the manufacturer. You can buy size 8 or 10 camo shirts or pants at Wal-Mart. It’s not because Wal-Mart is selling to child soldiers in Rwanda; it’s because kids like to wear camo. Both of my own boys definitely like to wear camoflauge shirts.
Comment by Kaimi — March 24, 2008 @ 11:22 am
My sons like camo, too. In fact, my oldest was an “army man” for Halloween and wore a camo costume for it.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 11:29 am
Stephanie, I never expected that the pattern makers were in the US, why would I? Does them not being American have some point? I honestly don’t even understand why you’d point this out. Did you think I was blaming America for something, and you are boldly jumping to her defense? Because I don’t see it.
Also, You you clearly have no idea at all about the circumstance under which children become soldiers. Very few of mothers are sending their six year olds off to war. They are kidnapped, they are orphaned, they are starving, their only choices are terrible ones. They can not “rise up” or “say” anything. Unless they want a bullet in the brain. And the US does not offer them “military action”.
I don’t think you mean to be as heartless as your comments sometimes come across. But honestly, you’re beginning to exhaust me with your vast false presumptions.
As far as hell, well, it’s certainly debatable, what hell means or is, or the nature or glories of the kingdoms of heaven, but clearly we don’t believe in any thing that remotely resembles evangelical or Catholic concepts of hell.
Comment by fMhLisa — March 24, 2008 @ 11:37 am
Kaimi, look around at pictures of child soldiers on the internet. Some of them are just wearing camo, some of them could be wearing small adult sizes. But clearly many of the uniforms are not costumes, not meant for civilian wear, not made for adults. They are clealry tiny, specifically military, uniforms.
I’m a little confused, are you claiming that there is no child uniform industry, or claiming that those involved in the industry have no idea what their making. I find both those views overly optimistic.
Comment by fMhLisa — March 24, 2008 @ 11:41 am
Lisa, I perceive the point of this post to cause the reader to feel guilty about small sins and to try to do better. I understand that (you didn’t respond to the irony part). I am wondering how the boy wearing the uniform in another country relates to me and what I can do about it. I put forth solutions. What are your solutions? If the U.S. did offer military action, would you approve?
I am quite used to being called heartless when responding to liberal ideas that I don’t agree with. It is one of the burdens of being conservative.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 11:44 am
Lisa,
I think Kaimi has a point. I really don’t think their are any child soldier uniform outfitters. Maybe I’m wrong. But maybe you are too, you have no evidence they exist. Most the pictures I have seen of child soldiers are not uniformed, all the money goes to guns, not camoflauge. If they do have uniforms, they always look way too big to me, like the picture.
But that is all beside the point. Good post.
Stephanie,
Lisa is right, I’ve never read a story a child soldier sent marching my their mothers. They flee with their children at night so they won’t be kidnapped and forced into soldierhood. No one is buying into propaganda and inviting war upon their children as you seem to believe.
I don’t see any solutions you presented. What did you have in mind?
Comment by mami — March 24, 2008 @ 11:52 am
This is the solution: the women (and men, I’m all for equal opportunity) in the countries who are sending children to war rise up against the tyranny that is taking their children from them. It is called a revolution. And when they do, the U.S. and other countries who care about human rights and dignities can support them with military action against the governments who are doing this.
Even if it not a government but just a terrorist group that has power based on fear over the people. It ends when the people revolt.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 12:00 pm
I am wondering how the boy wearing the uniform in another country relates to me and what I can do about it.
When you state this, are you asking if the child relates to you at all? As followers of Jesus Christ and understanding that we are all brothers and sisters and children of a Heavenly Father and understanding that our one purpose in life is to develop charity for all of our brothers and sisters and help them in every way possible,I really hope we indeed do understand that stories in the news of far away lands and people have everything to do with us!
When you pose these questions:
I think you should be posing them at yourself, not at Lisa. I think that is the point, that we do indeed ask ourselves these questions daily. That is the only way you can have a peacable walk with your fellowman. Our actions, all of them, do affect the world and its other occupants in some small way. Our efforts may be small, like not buying something we don’t need–but they are all we have to sacrifice.
Comment by mami — March 24, 2008 @ 12:01 pm
Stephanie, as far as passing moral judgments, against prostitutes or consumers or producers, all I’m saying is it’s complicated, and we’re all complicit to some degree. If you’ll look back at my wording, I was specifically implicating myself, the things I buy, the shoes I don’t need. And I don’t know what we should feel guilty for or how much we should give up or how much we need. That’s kinda the point of the post.
Comment by fMhLisa — March 24, 2008 @ 12:01 pm
Stephanie,
I would love to see that ideology applied in real life when people are starving and women are being gang raped, raped with machetes, their children slashed before their eyes. Exactly how will they revolt? I would really like to know how this could come about, maybe we should clue them in.
Comment by mami — March 24, 2008 @ 12:03 pm
Mami, I don’t think you understand anything I am saying. In thinking about trying to find a solution to help these children, I AM relating them to myself.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 12:04 pm
All change starts with a revolution, Mami.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 12:07 pm
lisa, you left out that they are befriended by older boys/young men who act as surrogate fathers/brothers for a brief time before shooting heroine into those little boys veins…
sigh…
Comment by mfranti — March 24, 2008 @ 12:19 pm
I believe in hell… It’s in places like Darfur. Every day young girls have to choose whether to leave the safety of the camp to find food for their families. And in leaving the camp, the girls know they are likely to be raped by knife and gun-point.
These 12-year-olds and the old grandmas should really just revolt about that!
Comment by sofia — March 24, 2008 @ 12:24 pm
FWIW- small uniforms were rather en vogue among those of us who played with GI JOE in the 80s…. There is a market for camo outside of the military.
Comment by Matt W. — March 24, 2008 @ 12:26 pm
It has to start somewhere Sofia. Even 12 year old girls and their grandmas can inspire others.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 12:26 pm
One of the greatest comforts of the gospel to me is that it offers us an opportunity to be free of the blood and sins of our generation. I do not see any other way to be free of the many horrors of our time (and I suspect every time has their own horrors) than through the grace of God. As the post points out we are all implicated in so many small ways.
Comment by Gina — March 24, 2008 @ 12:27 pm
stephanie, i don’t see how this issue is a conservative vs liberal issue. this is a human rights/ethic/moral responsibility issue not a left/right issue and lisa is trying to bring this to our (yours too) attention. the uniform itself is a springboard for discussion. you know, like the stat sheet on prostitution (geez lisa, hope i’m reading this correctly)
you are not alone in your views, i have taken your side before as do many of our readers.
Comment by mfranti — March 24, 2008 @ 12:32 pm
I am quite used to being called heartless when responding to liberal ideas that I don’t agree with. It is one of the burdens of being conservative.
Do you have any idea how smug you sound. Seriously? Maybe you do and you don’t care, maybe you really are that smug and proud of it. But I guess I still hope that you just don’t realize, that you’re still not grasping the implications of what you’re saying.
I keep trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but it’s hard. “Revolution” is the answer? You must have some concept of history, China, Russia, Ireland, the Darfur? You must know that revolution more often ends in more violence and more corruption, and no solution.
Your magic wand, black and white solutions are not magic, they’re not solutions and they’re not black and white.
Comment by fMhLisa — March 24, 2008 @ 12:33 pm
mfranti, I agreed and accepted in comment #5 that “we need to carefully consider all of our actions and their impact on the environment, other people, and world”. I do agree with that, and it is a good point. In the same comment, I disagreed with the assumption that contributing to global warming is a sin. That is more of a liberal/conservative issue.
Lisa, if there is no revolution, how can there be change? This is the definition of revolution: 2 a: a sudden, radical, or complete change b: a fundamental change in political organization; especially : the overthrow or renunciation of one government or ruler and the substitution of another by the governed c: activity or movement designed to effect fundamental changes in the socioeconomic situation d: a fundamental change in the way of thinking about or visualizing something : a change of paradigm.
I think these kinds of revolution are always bloody and violent, but that doesn’t make them unnecessary. I would like to hear other solutions.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 12:43 pm
this is where you and i part ways. have you considered that the food, water and guns belong to the bad guys.
my god woman? you must not be familiar with the goings on in the world, especially in Africa. if it was so easy that a housewife in texas can offer the solution, don’t you think they’d be well on their way to freedom?
i wish it was that simple, i wish i had the abilty to wave my magic wand and fix it, but i don’t and niether does anyone here. but…we can keep this is our minds and in our actions when we consider our level of consumption. this way, we can sleep at night.
Comment by mfranti — March 24, 2008 @ 12:43 pm
ok lisa, we cross posted on both of those. great minds…
Comment by mfranti — March 24, 2008 @ 12:44 pm
While I very much tend to agree with the concept of revolution, I just don’t think it is always possible. What are these ppeople supposed to do?Throw rocks? I just don’t believe a revolution is at all possible given the circumstances. It is very much not the Soviet Union.
Comment by mami — March 24, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
mranti, I am aware of the going-ons in the world. I am also aware of politics that get in the way of real solutions. I know things are complicated. But, I also think that people rising up and fighting against tyranny is the solution.
I guess I feel compelled to try to make a difference in the world, even if I am only a housewife in Texas.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 12:47 pm
It has to start somewhere Sofia. Even 12 year old girls and their grandmas can inspire others.
Here’s what I’m hearing. The girls and their grandmas choosing between food and rape. The mothers whose children are slaughtered as soldiers. The families who lose their limbs to diamond traders. The slaves. The coal miners who are buried alive due to greed. It’s their own fault because they don’t rise up in “revolution”.
This “revolution” would solve the problems they face.
Our most helpless and vulnerable brothers and sisters are at fault for not protecting themselves.
Is that what you’re saying?
Comment by fMhLisa — March 24, 2008 @ 12:48 pm
“but…we can keep this is our minds and in our actions when we consider our level of consumption. this way, we can sleep at night.”
I guess I don’t sleep as well at night because I think a lot about the problems of the world and what I can do to help.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 12:49 pm
I also think that people rising up and fighting against tyranny is the solution.
If only we had followed this idea and stayed out of Iraq.
Comment by mami — March 24, 2008 @ 12:49 pm
oh, and if you wanna know why this is has got me so upset it’s because yesterday, we had 10 confirmations in our ward.
10 people from the Congo- refugees. they are not the first, we’ve had refugees from Burma, sierra Leon and Sudan.
but those 10 people, 4 adults(one 75 year old woman) and 6 children ( i believe they were all family but i can’t be sure) looked so happy, their faces shining because they are safe now. they are safe from that hell they were living in.
but they were the lucky ones right? anyone ever consider what they lost and sacrificed to get here?
so smug indeed.
Comment by mfranti — March 24, 2008 @ 12:51 pm
No, Lisa, you left out the part about how when people rise up, other people step in and help them to fight (like the U.S. government I mentioned in a previous comment). That is one way we can help others.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 12:51 pm
I guess I feel compelled to try to make a difference in the world, even if I am only a housewife in Texas.
Huh?
Wow, the brick wall, my forehead. must. stop.
Comment by fMhLisa — March 24, 2008 @ 12:52 pm
mfranti, what are you getting at? I admire those Congan refugees. They have sacrificed so much and fought so hard to be safe.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 12:52 pm
(like the U.S. government I mentioned in a previous comment)
You have No concept of history.
Comment by fMhLisa — March 24, 2008 @ 12:53 pm
Stephanie,
I’m a little confused. What to you constitutes a revolution to the point that it is good for the US to step in?
Comment by mami — March 24, 2008 @ 12:53 pm
I don’t really want to have this conversation with you two anymore. You are not interested in talking about solutions and how to help. You are interested in tearing me apart for trying. I don’t really get it.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 12:54 pm
to be clear, I’m not saying it’s not possible. I’d like to think it is . . . but the history doesn’t support it At all. If you can find one instance of this approach working. I’ll be able to find fifty examples of it not working. I could probably list fifty off the top of my head in as many seconds.
Comment by fMhLisa — March 24, 2008 @ 12:55 pm
Stephanie,
I’m just trying to understand what you mean. I thought at first you said we couldn’t help, and then that the US can help people in revolt. It seems those of us on the other side simply don’t see a revolt to be possible.
Comment by mami — March 24, 2008 @ 12:57 pm
Stephanie, if you proposed something that looked even remotely like a solution . . . .
Comment by fMhLisa — March 24, 2008 @ 12:57 pm
Lisa,
What are you talking about working or not working?
Comment by mami — March 24, 2008 @ 12:57 pm
ok, the US government and it’s involvement (or lack of )in these matters is a whole ‘nother topic.
leave it at that.
Comment by mfranti — March 24, 2008 @ 1:01 pm
Lisa, go ahead and propose a better one.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 1:01 pm
Revolutions were difficult when it was swords, knives, stones, etc. We live in a world where those in power have guns, tanks, road-side bombs, grenades, drugs, money, and corrupt leaders. Where are the men? In Sudan, they are dead or in hiding for fear of their lives. The children being born are the products of rapes and are being raised by their teenage (or pre-teen) mothers and their aged grandmothers in near starvation. Good luck getting a revolution going there.
My BIL was high up in security for the AF for many unstable places in the world. He told us that the soldiers in many of these places would line up the family and shoot them one by one until the boys/men agreed to join their forces.
The only “answer” I can come up with is a global effort to either secure the innocents (militarily) or to relocate them. The US is unfortunately incapable to lead the way since we are stretched too thin in the military by a pointless, expensive, and never-ending occupation.
Comment by sofia — March 24, 2008 @ 1:02 pm
mami,
I mean stephanie’s “solution” that the US nobly step in and “help” those who pursue “virtuous” revolution. It just never (that I can think of) works out that way.
Comment by fMhLisa — March 24, 2008 @ 1:05 pm
.
i have no interest in tearing you apart. i promise. i do however take issue with the assumption that those people can just rise up and “make it happen”
take off your american goggles and get your head into some information on the actual situation and then we can talk solutions.
Comment by mfranti — March 24, 2008 @ 1:07 pm
You can talk solutions while I have my “american goggles” on. I don’t mind.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 1:10 pm
ok, stephanie,
assuming revolution is out of the question, what else can be done?
.
Comment by mfranti — March 24, 2008 @ 1:14 pm
mfranti, that is what I am asking you. Lisa has already pointed out that I have no concept of history (#37), so I am probably not the most qualified to offer a solution other than the one I proposed. I am hoping that you more enlightened and educated women can help me.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 1:19 pm
If it’s wrong for the US to intervene (like in Iraq), and there won’t be a revolution (because of the differences in resources), what is your fantasy of how this is going to change?
Comment by Kai Jones — March 24, 2008 @ 1:23 pm
I shouldn’t be, but I’m laughing. Before all this I had just commented:
“I think one of the reasons why we are not supposed to condemn is that it is so easy to do (and, yes, situations like those you highlight above make it all too easy for me) and yields few, if any, results.”
All this heat and nothing to show for it. =)
Comment by Liz — March 24, 2008 @ 1:25 pm
Stephanie, first of all, I think it deep folly to put the onus of change on those most victimized by oppressive systems.
In a way I think it’s very sweet (I don’t mean to be condescending, but I’m not sure how to word that) that you’re trying to find solutions for these problems. I just don’t think you understand the problems or the implications of your “solutions” very well.
The problem with real solutions is they are vastly complex and rarely simple or painless. I certainly am not under the impression that I know the solutions to the world’s ills. But I am still almost positive that the the ideas you see as solutions would not work.
I don’t really what the solutions are, but here’s what pops into my mind.
I tend to think that most of the solutions (and I do hope for them) in this modern globalized world are going economic in nature. If we can create the economic rules that demand humane treatment of people, and the decrease the incentive (wealth) for people who would profit off human misery. Which would mean vastly more regulation and enforcement of industry/imports. the misery caused by the oil industry alone is mind blowing.
The key is to make “humanity” profitable, through public demand, and regulation and enforcement, (and compromise and trial and error) I believe it’s possible, but I don’t believe industry will look for these solutions without being forced to.
Also things like investing heavily in world education and school lunch (children[especially girls] are something like 10x more likely to be sent to school if they get a free meal there). And in world health (along the lines of the gate’s foundation). Education and food and health are basic needs that have to be met before people can “rise up” as you would like them to.
Comment by fMhLisa — March 24, 2008 @ 1:30 pm
As for uniforms made for children,
I agree that the uniform in this photo looks like a small mans’ uniform rolled and tucked to fit a child. But there are indeed countries and people who make uniforms for children meant for military use (not sold in WalMart). They are either made be people who have seen family members shot and have armed guards walking their floors, or they are made by factories and people that support the actions of their government and the training of their children, and these are not all countries found in Africa. In some countries children get military training as part of their regular schooling and yes, mothers do send them to these schools, and might even help sew the uniforms.
So, is this post about changing these situations, or just about changing African war, or was this an introspective post about the small decisions we must make every day?
Comment by Liz — March 24, 2008 @ 1:33 pm
I think part of the disconnect a lot of us feel is described by what Stephen Covey calls the “Circle of Influence” and “Circle of Concern.” Put simply, the Circle of Influence is that part of the world where we can make a difference. The Circle of Concern is that part of the world where we want to make a difference.
I would love to help solve the problems of poverty in Africa, but that is hard for me to see how, when I am having trouble meeting my mortgage. There are thousands of refugees throughout the world, but when I sit on the stand in my ward (okay, so I’m the organist, but I stil sit on the stand), I see sitting in the front row a man who is recently widowed whose son won’t have anything to do with the church any more. A couple of rows back is a divorced woman who raised three kids on her own, and her only son who recently got his girlfriend pregnant refuses to try to come to the ward because of the hurtful, judging comments he’s already heard from the first counselor in the bishopric and his wife, the relief society president. And sitting alone a couple of rows behind her is the recently divorced wife of the man who used to be the second counselor in the bishopric, but since his excommunication we don’t even mention his name any more.
Off to the side, sitting with their respective husbands, are three sisters who all had babies within two weeks of each other near Christmas. Only two got meals brought in, and only one had a bay shower. What do you say to the sister who got neither meals nor a shower, given that her baby is still on oxygen?
I see others in the congregation, dealing with their private pains, but I think I’ve made my point. I try to worry about child labor in East Asia, and genocide in Africa, I really do. But I have a hard time helping people I already know. My Circle of Influence just can’t reach outside my ward’s boundaries.
Comment by CS Eric — March 24, 2008 @ 1:35 pm
Okay, Lisa, thanks. I agree with some of that and see where you are coming from. I particularly like the ideas of investing in world education and school lunches. Like you said (or maybe I am stretching this), given proper support, people could rise up and defend themselves.
I don’t like the idea of a global entity “forcing” a lot of regulations because there is so much corruption in the world’s governments. In the absence of corruption, if all world powers had similar ideas and ideals on the interests of humanity in mind, I think that could work.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 1:40 pm
CS Eric, I think that for some people, it has to. Because if it doesn’t, there will be people in certain “circles of influence” who will have noone to help them.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 1:42 pm
So how are we supposed to do all these things (like investing heavily in world education and school lunch)? I assume you are saying that these programs should be started over where the people are suffering. But how can we do that if we can’t even send anyone over there to initiate these programs? We are in Iraq trying to help them and improve their country, but you don’t believe we should even be there. WHO are we supposed to send to help them? Or should they start these programs themselves?
Comment by Ali S — March 24, 2008 @ 1:48 pm
#54 fmhLisa,
(Do I dare get into this conversation? Ah what the heck.)
Actually, it is when people are fed and have their needs met that they are less likely to “rise up.” I think that is why so few rebellions happen in the U.S. because why would we go against a system that gives us so many freebies? I know this is a very over simplified statement and therefore open to much butchering. So what. Many of the wars being fought in Africa, with children against their will, are the people “rising up”. They just aren’t rising up for the right things (or the things we think are right).
As for economics, there are places (much like the one depicted above) where economics just don’t play a big enough of a role in people’s lives to make a difference. My shopping will not change the governmental collapse of a country where the people never see or feel the economic shifts because all gain and loss are only experienced by tyranical leaders and their helpers. We can go in and build schools and hospitals (and we do along with other able and helpful countries) and do what good we can until the next uprising and the next war when they bomb and destroy all our hard work. We can send rice, clothing, and money, as we do and should, and pray that it might actually reach the people we are sending it to instead of being taken and used to feed the armies that are using small children against their will.
I guess what I’m saying is what I tried to say before. Condemning is easy and doesn’t do anything. Solutions and good work aren’t guaranteed to fix anything, but some of them just might make a few people’s lives easier for just a moment and that is why we keep trying, in small ways, to do whatever we can to balance out the bad that other people do. So, sure Stephanie’s ideas might not be the same as yours, but we don’t have to agree to do whatever it is we think will make this world a better place. Let Stephanie do it her way, and you do it yours, and I will do it mine (and I’m not saying what my way is because I don’t want to fight about it).
Comment by Liz — March 24, 2008 @ 1:49 pm
Well, the industry regulation is an age-old liberal/conservative debate. I agree that governments can be corrupt and inefficient, and there is no easy solution. The hows and whats of efficiency and enforcement are well beyond me. But again, I think history is on my side on this debate.
I think you will find very few even conservative American who would be willing to back up economic history 110 years ago, to the good ol’ lassie faire economic days when breaker boys were routinely crippled in the hard rock mines, and young girls locked in mills with no safety regulations or work day limits, their fingers crushed, scalps ripped off and backs broken for less than subsistence wages. I think we’ve effectively proven that Government regulation of industry and the economy is absolutely necessary to the public welfare.
Which isn’t really what this post is about.
Comment by fMhLisa — March 24, 2008 @ 1:54 pm
I have a friend who is a gyn doctor. She goes into areas like this and gives medical assistance. Sometimes there are goats wandering through the operating room, sometimes there are guards to keep the Americans safe. But she is willing to help. Another friend has gone with them as a cook. Our whole ward makes quilts and sanitary kits and sends as much as the airplane will hold. Revolution from the inside is impossible, but help isn’t. If enough Americans sent in enough aid, it would make a difference. Maybe there wouldn’t be the need for getting raped to get food if American could send more food into the camps. People cannot organize into a revolution when they can’t get enough food to get through the day, when complication from childbirth go uncorrected, disease is rampant, rape is common and AIDS is in a large portion of the population, when there is no clean drinking water, and weapons are only in the hands of the terrorists. The US has programs going into these areas to dig wells for clean water. There are programs like my friend participates in sending in doctors so that mother live long enough to raise their babies. Find out about some of this humanitarian help and donate.
Comment by alas — March 24, 2008 @ 1:57 pm
That is why I ask in #55 what this post is supposed to be about:
“So, is this post about changing these situations, or just about changing African war, or was this an introspective post about the small decisions we must make every day?”
Maybe then we can get this thread to go the way you were hoping.
Comment by Liz — March 24, 2008 @ 1:59 pm
I’m interested in hearing more about this solution Stephanie. Do you have any examples where this has worked that we can discuss?
And can I tell you, I find reading your posts exhausting because for some reason you choose to bring liberal vs. conservative battles into threads that don’t need it by writing stuff like this .
The only possible explanation I can think of that this would apply to this thread is because you believe only bleeding heart liberals would care about young boys forced to fight in military uniforms. A can see no other point in making this a liberal vs. conservative issue.
Comment by jjohnsen — March 24, 2008 @ 1:59 pm
Lisa, Stephanie was uninformed about child soldiers, but I don’t see the justification for your calling Stephanie’s statements “heartless.”
I think that Stephanie is right that mormons don’t disbelieve in hell; we simply think that the fire and brimstone are metaphorical, and that very few people suffer absolute and permenant damnation. Indeed, the Book of Mormon suggests strongly that hell is something that many of us experience while we are still alive, just as Alma the younger and Zeazrom experienced and were saved from the fires of hell.
I also note that folks seem to be dodging Stephanie’s point about the inconsistency of condemning those who judge prostitution to be wrong, while judging those who in other indirect respects contribute to making the world a cruel and ugly place.
On the other hand, I think that you support this point yourself, Lisa, when you said:
“Our motivations are complex and our sins are small or necessary or thoughtless or convenient. I’ve never sewn a tiny military uniform, but I’m sure I own things that were produced by child labor. I know I have habits that contribute to global warming. My dh has worked for companies with practices I find repellent, and I cashed the checks. I buy things I do not need, and spend time on frivolous pursuits rather than dedicating myself utterly to ending hunger or slavery or genocide.
We are all guilty of small sins.”
Well-said, Lisa. It would require a constant labor and a great deal of sacrifice of convenience to keep ourselves completely clean of the blood and sins of this generation. I think that may be what the WoW prohibition on tea was about, because of the tea-silver-opium triangle of oppression that Brits and US exploiters inflicted on in China at the time, getting 10% of Chinese addicted to Opium so that the West could enjoy tea. (That certainly fits the WoW concern about evil and conspiring men!)
Comment by Christian — March 24, 2008 @ 2:00 pm
Eric, I really like your point. I’ve never heard of the Circles idea. Do you ever wonder what good we do by worrying about things outside our Circle of influence, if we can’t/don’t do much about it. It really bothers me sometimes. I know I worry, I think I’m supposed to worry, but I’m not sure why, or if it does any good. I think it doesn’t much.
Liz, You’re right that comfortable people rarely call for change, but then neither can people who are running daily from machete’s and machine guns. Also some hope, gotta have at least a little hope.
I do see your point about economics, and I agree with it to some degree, but I think maybe (could be wrong) the point is, that the next person coming in and bombing the hospital is generally doing it for some kind of personal economic (or power) (same thing usually) gain. So somehow if we can remove the incentive, we can remove the violence. Maybe.
And No, I don’t think all “solutions” should be valued equally for their good intentions. If a “solution” is actually stupid and making things worse (like farm subsidies and that influence on US world food relief) then we don’t just hold hands and sing kumbiya about, we work for better solutions. And I genuinely think that Stephanie’s solutions were naive to the point of harmful.
Comment by fMhLisa — March 24, 2008 @ 2:14 pm
That is why I ask in #55 what this post is supposed to be about:
Oh, it can be about most anything I suppose. I was mostly going for the instrospective thing. But I’m fine with whatever. I just was thinking that going deep into an economic debate might better be saved for later . . . but I don’t care much really.
Comment by fMhLisa — March 24, 2008 @ 2:18 pm
Here’s a question for everyone:
Is child labor always an evil? Until about a hundred years ago, every child was expected to work to help support the family. In many undeveloped areas of the world, without the labor of the whole family, the family couldn’t eat. I think if you went to an impoverished woman in India and said, “You’re children don’t have to work anymore, we have built you a school!” You may not have jumping for joy.
I’m not trying to confuse this with children doing dangerous jobs, working unhealthy hours, or other abuses of the third world. I do think that in some areas of the world, some children probably have to work to help feed and give shelter to the whole family.
Comment by sofia — March 24, 2008 @ 2:25 pm
Lisa, I see this discussion differently than you do. Your take: “But again, I think history is on my side on this debate”. My take: this isn’t a debate. This is a discussion to share ideas and try to come up with solutions. That means that some ideas will be “naive to the point of harmful”. Sorry - I never said I wasn’t naive. I don’t mind disagreeing or having people disagree with me. It’s not necessary to be unkind in the process, though.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 2:26 pm
I guess part of my comments come because of my experience in my and my wife’s family, where one person becomes so obsessed with “saving the world” that they neglected their families.
My mother-in-law would get all dressed up to go to her charity meetings, and throw frozen fishsticks in the oven for the six kids as she walked out the door. My sister-in-law would go to three-day retreats, sometimes with by brother, sometimes not, leaving their four kids with a thirteen-year-old babysitter who would check in on them a couple of times a day. My nephew was still in diapers after he was baptised.
I think that, even for those of us with limited resources, something like Alas suggests can be helpful. But in the meantime, I think my limited resources are better spent trying to help the people I see in church every week. Sometimes the answer to the question asked of the Savior, “who is my neighbor?” really is my neighbor.
Comment by CS Eric — March 24, 2008 @ 2:32 pm
fmhLisa,
I don’t see Stephanies “solutions” as naive or harmful. They are just reality. You have two, or more, waring factions in a 3rd world country with an unstable government who are fighting about race, religion, power, anything but a basic human’s rights to freedom and happiness. Amid these factions are regular people just trying to survive, and barely at that. They are hungry, weaponless, being killed, forced to fight in a war they didn’t start. What are we to do for them? We can try to feed them, and we should. We can try to educate them, and we should. We can try to help them escape to our country, and we should until they have a safer country. But in the end, how can you expect people, even if you feed them and educate them, to stand up to masses of armed men who have proven that they care very little for human life?
Stephanie is only saying that it would require an equal amount of force to fight back. I don’t find much naive in that. Would it work? Probably not. As you say, history shows that it rarely works to force people to be good (which is why I think Heavenly Father chose the free to choose plan). Revolutions have worked in many countries because it was a mass of people against a single government. But in places like Africa it is small groups of people fighting against many would-be-governments. So, without military intervening, there are very few ways that we can make changes. We can only help like #62 and her friends. Help and change aren’t the same thing. One of the rules of charity is that it is love without expectation of change. The change is hoped for and possible with help but shouldn’t be expected.
Comment by Liz — March 24, 2008 @ 2:44 pm
I haven’t had time to read the other posts but what a CHILLING photo. It’s an image I won’t easily forget.
Comment by Lulubelle — March 24, 2008 @ 2:47 pm
[…] and Guilt Trips March 24, 2008 — viriatha Lisa over at Feminist Mormon Housewives posted today on small sins with, “It’s easy to condemn the simply evil, but most people aren’t. Our […]
Pingback by Sin and Guilt Trips « Musings of a Housewife — March 24, 2008 @ 3:52 pm
Lisa, IIRC, you become more able to affect your Circle of Concern by becoming effective within your Circle of Influence, and then growing it.
Comment by Ann — March 24, 2008 @ 4:27 pm
Ann, that is very profound. Thank you.
Comment by Stephanie — March 24, 2008 @ 4:51 pm
lisa… what a sobering, thought provoking post…
and then I read the comments.
what was that about the US government being the ones to go in and help the oppressed? they generally have other ideas in mind when asserting our vast military might.
and the idea that we went into Iraq 5 years ago to help them improve their country? (comment #59)
so back to your original point, about the complexity of motivations and the multitude of ways we can hurt or help… thank-you for that.
Comment by G — March 24, 2008 @ 4:53 pm
#62 “If enough Americans sent in enough aid, it would make a difference. ”
Somewhere a long time ago I read a quote along the lines of “more money is spent in the world on cosmetics than on food aid” - food for thought maybe
Comment by namakemono — March 24, 2008 @ 4:55 pm
Lisa:
Thank you for this thought-provoking post. I can only add that I struggle daily with the small sin factor. Because I know my footprint on this earth is bigger than is fair. And I have great guilt over the fact that I was born into th affluence of middle-class America.
The tough part for me is that even if I conserve, and buy smart, and wage peace, my efforts don’t really “make a difference” given the larger forces at work in this world.
So what I’ve decided is that I have to feel right about my choices (consumer choices, activism, etc) because that’s all I _can_ do.
And FWIW, I’ve never let my kids have camo anything. I can’t stand the thought of them glamorizing violence. I would no more let my son wear camo pants as I would let my daughter wear hotpants (or vice versa). I know I’m extreme. But it’s just my $.02. And it seems to be working–my preteen kids are growing into dutiful young pacifists and they both prefer modest clothing.
Comment by Jana — March 24, 2008 @ 4:55 pm
#68 Of course the idea and practice of having children work and help the family isn’t evil. It is “evil” in my mind when it takes the place of education and having fun. Working on your parents farm, babysitting, mowing the lawn, walking neighbors dogs, even working in businesses after school, are all good things. It teaches children skills, makes them feel valuable, and teaches them to respect money and labor.
But the term “child labor” is often meant to mean using children for cheap labor. It often means working instead of receiving education, and children get paid far less than men or women in any country.
And, yes, I think if you were to tell an impoverished woman in India that you had a job for her that would pay her enough to make up for what her child earns so that she could send the child to school she would indeed jump for joy. Education is very highly valued, especially among the impoverished, in India. It is seen as the only way to escape poverty.
Comment by Liz — March 24, 2008 @ 5:02 pm
I’m a bit confused. Do you all believe that there is never a place for violence when the repressed have finally had enough?
Depending on the thread here, people’s opinions about the same issue seem to change with the wind.
Reading this blog is like listening to students in a beginning physics class try to argue the finer points of quantum mechanics.
Opinions are fine and all, but would you all at least try to get some real understanding about the issues before you stand up a foolishly shoot your mouths off.
Comment by JustaQuestion — March 24, 2008 @ 5:02 pm
#80,
To your first question, I honestly think it depends on the situation. I don’t think you can enact violence for the sake of defending a person or people unless they ask for it from us (that is when more damage is done than good). Plus, in some areas the repressed are so few and the “Bad guys” are so many that the violence required would be close to genocide. So, yes, I can think of times when violence to defend the repressed and opressed is necessary, even righteous, but only in certain situations. I know that there have been pleas from Africa for outside help, but I think that is a situation where there are too many bad people and, instead of killing, punishing, forcing that many people to stop (that should be more of an act of God undertaking in my mind), I think we should help, rescue, and pray for the innocents and try, in nonviolent ways, to change the way that people think over there.
Comment by Liz — March 24, 2008 @ 5:20 pm
And when I say, “so few” I mean in a relative way, so please don’t start throwing statictics and numbers at me. I’m well aware and it is sickening.
Comment by Liz — March 24, 2008 @ 5:25 pm
I think that sometimes we all have to look at the things we’ve decided we can’t do, and try to do them anyway. Maybe it is making a call to the Relief Society President in your ward to talk about the sister you’re concerned about, or introducing yourself to the new person as your children speed in circles around you and you balance a baby and a church bag in your arms.
Maybe it is doing something much bigger. People can do big things, and things they think they can’t do. I hesitate to start naming them off because then people start to think they are being judged for what they’re not doing. That’s not what I mean to do at all. For example, I think it would be awesome to stop driving a car, and buy everything organic, and go on one of those year-long consumer fasts. But I am not doing that right now (I still might!), and while I admire those who are, I totally get it that not everybody can. The “big thing” I am doing right now is foster parenting. I would love to see more people do that. But I would never tell anyone that is what they are supposed to do.
I will say that I think most of us could do better. We artificially deflate our “circles of influence,” and half the time it’s probably just lack of confidence that keeps us from doing better and more. If you feel judged about some of what Lisa said, or some of what I said, maybe there’s a reason. Maybe deep down you know there’s something you want to do differently. Figure out what it is, and do it. You don’t have to stop all your maybe-sins at once. At least I hope not because I am not. Just do something.
Comment by Ana — March 24, 2008 @ 5:32 pm
These are always hard questions. I’ve found, though, that whenever I start down the road of the examples you gave, the Spirit kind of leaves me. (That said, I hardly go to Wal-mart anymore.)
I feel there is more that I can focus on and can change in terms of sins and neglect that really are more within my circle of influence and circle of control. I really can’t track every thing I buy, nor can I really have an impact with most of the problems in the world. I like to keep my eye out for good causes that can try to make a difference, but in the end there is sooo much out there that is wrong and broken that it’s easy to get discouraged…and then I’m not of much use to anyone or anything. Frankly, that discouragement to me seems like a tool of the adversary. So I try to do what I can and try to let the rest go.
I also think that we often underestimate the degree to which real change will have to come from really having people change. And that won’t fundamentally be about economic change. I like Pres. Benson’s quote where he says that the world tries to change things from the outside in, and Christ works just the opposite…that He changes people people from the inside out, who can then change their circumstances and their environment.
So I feel all the more that one concrete thing I can do is do all I can to support the work of the Lord, because it has a reach and an impact that is sometimes not fully appreciated, imo. Even our humanitarian and missionary work can get in there on the ground in ways that most of us couldn’t at the stage of life in which we find ourselves. So, we can support those efforts, encourage those we know to serve (especially couples…have you ever seen the kind of opportunities there are for couples?)
Again, this is not to say that there aren’t other good causes and organizations to support, too, but there is also soooo much to do within our own areas, and within the cause of the Lord. I feel more peace when I do things in that way than worry a lot about which particular piece of clothing might have come from someplace with child labor….just too stressful, too overwhelming, too easily something that can all but shut me down. Not good.
I also find that when I get frustrated even with our own government that it all helps me appreciate what the Savior’s deliverance will mean at so many levels. I’m not one who sits back and just waits for His coming without wanting to do what I can, but that is the key. What I can do is not anywhere near what needs to be fixed. And all He asks of me is to do my best with what I have and what I can do.
Comment by m&m — March 24, 2008 @ 5:46 pm
I’m glad you shared this post, Lisa. It is well worth considering. I believe the key is the last line on comment 2. We can try harder. And indeed, we must try harder. I doubt (though I hope) we can eliminate the conscription of child soldiers, or child labor, or sweatshops, or corporate influence in government policy, or increasing carbon emissions, or poverty, or hunger, or what have you. And if we become too obsessed with it, we can drive ourselves to despair in our impotence on these matters. But we can and should see what little more we can do, what small way we can stretch ourselves and do better by the world; then the next small thing we can do, and on and on. It is simply part of the ongoing process of seeking perfection that every disciple of Christ should be engaged in.
Comment by Derek — March 24, 2008 @ 6:55 pm
Interesting how something was briefly empowering (when people realized that the .223 could be used by women unlike the 762 round) led to terrible abuse (when they realized it could be handled by children).
Instead of women being able to arm themselves against oppressors, their children were taken and made into oppressors.
It is terribly sad.
Comment by Stephen M (Ethesis) — March 24, 2008 @ 7:39 pm
This post really made me look deep into myself. I cried and cried. And then I cried some more. What terrible sins I commit daily. Everyday, without even knowing it! Oh God! How can I go on with my life. I’ll end it here. I’d rather put a stop to the suffering I am causing than go on living. Life is a sin! Yes! That is right. Life itself is a sin. The human race is tainted with sin, each and everyone of us each time we draw breath.
Give me a break. I tell you what. The stuff I read on this website is ridiculous. Some of you here have real issue with guilt. You seem to revel in it, as if it is some wonder drug. Too bad we can’t put guilt into a pill and sell it on the streets of America. You’d have people stumbling over themselves to get it.
Comment by sam — March 25, 2008 @ 10:45 am
Gina said:
I think this was the greatest comment in this thread. We have many things we are concerned about. We do what we can, when we can. And then, like all other things, we rely on the Savior and the Atonement. Gina’s reminder of the promises made to us was a great comfort to me. We’re not guilt-seekers, rather intelligent, compassionate women who are trying to be our brother’s keepers.
Comment by sofia — March 25, 2008 @ 11:46 am
“Just do the best you can, but be sure it is your very best. Then leave it in the hands of the Lord.”
–President Gordon B. Hinckley
Comment by anonymous — March 25, 2008 @ 11:59 am
89 is a fantastic summation.
Comment by Derek — March 25, 2008 @ 1:15 pm
I need to say this. Sometimes I agree with Stephanie. But, regarding #10, I get really peeved at the complaints about how the liberals pick on her. Give it a rest.
Maybe she will come to understand how it is for liberals in a conservative, for want of a better word, church. It is tough to be in a society where people think it impossible to be a good member and believe something different than they. It is hard to be in a society where one is always odd person out and must choose every word with great care. It can’t hurt her to be in the minority for a change.
#12
When they have oil in Darfur then maybe policy makers will believe it is in the interest of the US to intervene. There is no evidence that the US cares about human rights and dignity anywhere in the world enough to intervene on that basis alone.
Comment by judycomelately — March 25, 2008 @ 2:07 pm
Often these decisions are not as clear cut as you may think.
For example, suppose a decision not to manufacture small uniforms means the company will lay off workers who then have to become prostitutes to earn money?
Comment by WJ — March 25, 2008 @ 2:24 pm
judycomelately, jjohnsen, fMhLisa, and mfranti, point taken and duly noted. This was only one of my many “sins” committed yesterday, so thank you for pointing it out (over and over and over).
Comment by Stephanie — March 25, 2008 @ 3:02 pm
#80 - It really isn’t as easy as saying, “Just revolt.” People will put up with a lot when their basic needs are being met - most Iraqis were happier under Saddam Hussein because yes, he was a tyrant and a bastard, but he fed them and the standard of living in Iraq was higher than the standard of living in many other Arab countries. People will put up with a lot when they have to struggle to meet their basic needs - most people in Khartoum probably aren’t terribly interested in what is happening in Darfur because they are struggling, too, just to feed their children. To say, “Well, revolt, start a revolution and get rid of the cretins” is easy, but simplistic: Why revolt, when you are being fed? Who has time to revolt, when there is food to put on the table? Then, too, in many of these countries, past revolution has simply led to greater repression: Why revolt, when the next guy might be even worse?
Comment by Quimby — March 25, 2008 @ 6:23 pm
Today’s small sin is that I laughed at this comment.
Comment by madhousewife — March 25, 2008 @ 6:33 pm
Sofia #68, you pose an interesting question. Childhood is a relatively new concept. Have you ever watched the series “The Worst Jobs in History”? There is one episode that is all about the worst children’s jobs in history - three year olds sent down to mind doors in coal mines, sitting in the dark for 8 hours a day . . . I cringe. But this was perfectly acceptable in Victorian England, and it’s still perfectly acceptable in many parts of the world. (Well, maybe not sending a 3 year old into a coal mine - but maybe - I don’t really know.)
Comment by Quimby — March 25, 2008 @ 6:48 pm
So, Quimby (#94), what is your idea of a solution?
Comment by Stephanie — March 25, 2008 @ 7:05 pm
Stephanie, I’m not in the business of dictating solutions, because there is no one-size-fits-all. Having seen first-hand the devastation of poverty, albeit as an outsider, I know that I cannot fathom the challenges of survival. I close my eyes and the memory comes back of children digging through piles of garbage for a scrap of food, holding up a goat’s skull covered in maggots and rejoicing, because here, at last, is something to eat. When simply foraging for food becomes a chore that lasts a day, where is there time for solutions?
In Ghana some years back, I sat outside at a table at a bar drinking a Coke while my husband had a beer with some locals. “We are very lucky,” they repeated, over and over again, “Here we have peace.” I remembered the experience of my former Bishop, who had been there years ago when an apostle visited for the first time. It was not a time of peace. One war had ended, and another was threatening to begin. I believe he said it was Jeffrey Holland who stood up, and began to give a very standard sort of prayer, when suddenly he stopped, and paused for so long that everyone else opened their eyes and wondered what had happened. And then he began again - and all in attendance knew that he was speaking from a higher authority when he gave a solemn promise that Ghana would be a beacon of peace. Perhaps the members questioned silently; but then, I have never seen a faith like that in Ghana, so I imagine they believed him. That war which was threatened never came. And today Ghana, though poor, is peaceful. Almost without exception, its neighbors are at war. I sat at that table and closed my eyes to the bright equatorial sun and smiled and thought: “What I the Lord have promised I have promised, and whether it be by my voice or by the voice of my servant it is the same.”
But of course the Lord has not promised peace to every land. And perhaps He should not - after all, we all must have our free agency, warmongers and tyrants too.
Just this morning my husband shared with me something his father had shared with him about the experiences of his grandfather in World War I. It is far too brutal to relate here. War destroys. It destroys bodies, and it destroys souls, and it is felt through the generations. The decision to take up arms should never be made lightly. Unfortunately, all too often, it is.
Comment by Quimby — March 25, 2008 @ 7:35 pm
Well, Quimby, I do like your solution (along with m&m’s: I like Pres. Benson’s quote where he says that the world tries to change things from the outside in, and Christ works just the opposite…that He changes people people from the inside out, who can then change their circumstances and their environment. So I feel all the more that one concrete thing I can do is do all I can to support the work of the Lord, because it has a reach and an impact that is sometimes not fully appreciated, imo.
The Lord works in mysterious ways according to our faith. That is a wonderful story about Ghana. Thank you for sharing.
Comment by Stephanie — March 25, 2008 @ 7:55 pm
re: 94 & 97:
Solutions are grand things. But viable solutions to complex, real-world problems are also difficult things to generate. The first step in arriving at a solution is acknowledging the problem. Sometimes that is all we can do, recognize the problem, make people aware of it, so that we can collectively think upon it, and try as individuals in some little way to do our port to assuage the problem. Ultimately, through our concern and effort, we may be inspired with an effective solution. But not if we ignore it because the solution isn’t readily apparent. I am very concerned by the seeming implication (which may not have been intended, but is present nonetheless) that if there is no ready solution, we shouldn’t be bothered by it, or that it might not really be a problem at all, so we should just be quiet.
Comment by Derek — March 26, 2008 @ 9:26 am
The world hasn’t always had guns. The Nephites and Lamanites certainly didn’t use guns to kill the tens of thousands that were killed during their wars. Neither did the Roman Soldiers. Why are the ‘pretty heads’ of the gun manufacturing companies always to blame? Removing guns would not stop war or murder.
Comment by Christine — March 26, 2008 @ 1:14 pm
101
Simply because removing guns would not stop war or murder doesn’t mean there should be no guilt for the part one plays in murder or war. So, okay, let’s remove guns. Then we’d just put the same guilt on those who produce. Just because someone else would be there to enable violence doesn’t mean they shouldn’t too question their role in death.
Comment by Stars — March 26, 2008 @ 3:11 pm
oops. wanted to add to the third sentence!
Then we’d just put the same guilt on those who produce swords or spears or whatever the weapon du jour is.
Comment by Stars — March 26, 2008 @ 3:12 pm
in the Book of Mormon it talks about battles with women and children involved. horrible battles as we see today and worse. It also talks of how the skins of the Lamanites and the actions of them are not as horrible and dark as the actions of the Nephites who had the knowledge they had from their fathers or father “Nephi”. As we read the scriptures our understanding and attitude of christianity will grow.
Comment by k — April 5, 2008 @ 3:56 pm
You are right. I habe been researching this topic, and to be perfectly honest, I’m surprised that there has been no workers who’ve made the uniforms and such who have spoken out. Maybe their government forbids it, but still, move to another country and get a new job! people shouldn’t just sit there and do nothing. But you are right; we all commit little sins. The human race is essentially a lazy one.
can i just ask - is a feminist someone who is against the whole “women get no power” thing, or are feminists against women getting equal rights? I can never get it straight in my head.
Comment by A — September 14, 2008 @ 3:38 am
A, I’m not sure I really understand your questions (it’s worded so as to be almost double negatives, but maybe not), but I’ll give it a stab, feminists are a complex group, with lots of different ideas and focuses. Generally feminists are in favor of equal rights and in favor of women becoming empowered. Does that answer your questions?
(also to your comment: it’s not so simple to ‘move and get a new job’ people in desperate situations don’t have a lot of options)
Comment by fMhLisa — September 14, 2008 @ 10:17 am