Dear fMh:How Much Does Sex Matter?
by: HandleWithCare (HWC)
DH and I have thirty years of love and friendship-but not passion. Don’t get me wrong, I love sex and he is a considerate lover but not a creative one. Being an engineer, I think he likes easy to follow instructions that work every time. He’s all at sea with a process that demands thinking on one’s feet, as it were.
For thirty years I have told myself that it does not matter,that I should focus on what we do have, that things would fall into place and it’s worked,up till now. Now I feel that time is running out and it hasn’t fallen into place,not at all. I’m a very frustrated woman and I it shows. DIY never worked for me, I’m a team player or not at all, but believe me I’ve tried.
So let me ask you fMh readers-Do our sexual relationships matter? Is it important to balance yin and yang and confront our nakedness?Is the process of achieving intimacy a real part of our eternal quest,or a temporal distraction?
Tell me, How much does sex matter?
first let me say i’m 28 and single so I can’t speak for someone who’s been in a marriage for 30 years. But I think that sex should matter IF it matters to you. If he’s all about “follow the instructions,” maybe he would enjoy a step-by-step book such as “she comes first” (can’t recommend this enough - I may be single but I wasn’t always a member, if you get my drift) or similar.
I can’t speak to having sex as a member, but it was, at times, a very spiritual thing for me, with the right person. I think I would go nuts without a spiritual connection but then, again, that is me. Are you bothered by this because you really want more or do you feel like you *SHOULD* want more? It seems from your post you really want more. I definately think that you have the right to ask for it.
Comment by More Shenanigans — November 12, 2008 @ 8:42 pm
Keep in mind that this is based solely on what you wrote, not any effort to read between the lines in any way. Also, keep in mind that this implies an age where your question might be as much mid-life crisis as anything else.
Are you willing to give up what you have (thirty years of love and friendship with a man who is considerate) just to have someone who is creative? Sex is important, but “technically great sex” can be found in lots of places with lots of people.
Yes, you have the right to ask, but if you are asking for something that he just can’t give, is that fair at all to him? I can’t answer that, since I don’t know if that request would be unrealistic and unfair. Only you can answer that question. I just know I wouldn’t trade my marriage for the best sex possible - and I wouldn’t risk it - and I wouldn’t tell my wife of over 20 years that I wish she were a better lover (even if I actually felt that way) - etc. I want intimacy more than I want better sex, and I have wonderful intimacy with a woman I love with all my heart.
What we have is what we have, and I am happy with what we have.
Comment by Ray — November 12, 2008 @ 9:10 pm
HWC,
Great question. I like Ray’s response, he’s right in a lot of ways.
But, it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to get something new or interesting going on. (not a new man, maybe a new book, or a sex therapy vacation or something)
If it’s important to you, and if it brings you closer together, you should go for it.
Comment by jessawhy — November 12, 2008 @ 9:24 pm
You should be achieving orgasm at least once in a while.
Sometimes “be more creative” means “I would like you to do this” If it’s the latter, maybe tell him. NOT during sex though, in the in between day.
If he is a reader, I would recommend this one, http://www.amazon.com/Make-Love-Woman-Michael-Morgenstern/dp/0517605252
Comment by somed00d — November 12, 2008 @ 9:30 pm
I kinda have a beef with society about this issue. I know so many people (not implying you are one of them) who place way too much importance on sex, and consider it a make-or-break factor in a relationship.
I respond with the story of my grandparents. When only 60, my grandpa had a stroke. For 5 years, he was bed-ridden, unable to move or speak. For 5 years, my grandma sat by him, read to him, bathed him, changed his diapers, and never stopped loving him. It was a completely one-way relationship. But she did it out of love.
Tha’ts love. That’s marriage. So, to directly answer your question, I’d say the importance of sex is far diminished by the importance of the things that really make up the heart of your relationship.
That said….. sex should be fun. If he’s too shy or habitual to change his ways, you should initiate something new. Take charge and be aggressive. You don’t have to let him know that you haven’t been enjoying the sex as is….. you can carry it out as if you have just discovered a renewed interest in him, and want to express it in an exciting way. Instead of him having hurt feelings about not having that most important of all masculine skills, he can feel complimented and sexy because his wife of 3 decades still wants him. The change can originate with you.
Be aggressive! Tell him what you want! I mean, you’re already naked….. should you really be hiding anything else?
Comment by Natalie — November 12, 2008 @ 9:33 pm
I think it matters. I think it was Dr. Phil who said (I’m not a fan of his but this makes sense) that if sex is good its 10% of the marriage if its bad its 90% of the marriage. Also the number one reason people get divorced is because of sex. So if its an issue you need to address it before the problem gets worse.
Is he open to trying new things? If he’s anything like my husband subtly won’t work. Tell him what you want. I get really shy in bed, and it can be hard to verbalize what I want, but when I do I am so glad I did. I was going to type out more but I see Natalie saved me the trouble.
Comment by Flo — November 12, 2008 @ 9:41 pm
From my male perspective, sex is very important. I’ve always tried to make it clear that I’m open to gentle, constructive direction. If he isn’t touching you the right way, take his hands and show him how, where and with what pressure you want him to touch (and do other things to) you. If he wants to please you–and he absolutely should–he’ll be appreciative of the direction. Don’t make him guess; demonstrate what you want. Just be gentle about it so as not to unnecessarily bruise his ego.
Comment by Kevin Barney — November 12, 2008 @ 9:44 pm
By and large, I think mormons in general have poor sex. What can you expect from a people too uptight to talk about sex, that don’t have sex until marriage (some, not all), a devout handful do it with their garments on, oral sex was off-limit until the 70’s, we should never masturbate (tell that to mission companion X), every night is full of church activities, and we have a house-full of kids? Yeah, odds are your sex life is going to suck!
The only way your sex-life will improve is if you get blushing honest where you tell your partner all those depraved fantasies you think about during lame Relief Society lessons and he tells you about his years of repressed lust for whatever tartlet gets him hot. And then for heck’s sake buy a video, get a book, see a therapist, get a toybox of “toys” and find out how things work and what makes both of you writhe with pleasure because Honey, life is short and who knows if we turn into naughty-bitless Barbies in the afterlife.
Comment by Molly — November 12, 2008 @ 10:02 pm
Natalie what you describe as love could just as easily be father son/daughter or brother sister. Passionate love is completely different and if you have it you would understand. Sex is the only way to a passionate love affair. Sex is the most emothional experience you can have. I personally believe you have get yourself there as much as have our spouse give it to you. After 22 years of marriage very few of them passionate (who has the energy with kids and all) but there have been some great days along the way.
Comment by Lori — November 12, 2008 @ 10:05 pm
I haven’t heard that particular Dr. Phil quote, but that sounds about right.
I’m actually thrilled this is brought up in an LDS forum. Sex matters - a lot.
I have to agree with Molly up there. I don’t know that I’d be comfortable with toys and whatnot (and many people of our faith would recoil at the thought - and you know, for decent reason) but I went for years being boring. I didn’t know what was okay! My husband was among the most patient people, but he suffered through it. Greatly. And in the end, so did I.
I hate to admit this, because you know, public forum, but being a writer and belonging to an online writing “group,” I have access to different sorts of stories from different people. Now, I’m not condoning all erotica, but well-written erotica stories helped me realize (a) what is normal. not necessarily “traditional” but normal enough (b) sex is good (c) what isn’t normal. And yes, it’s easy enough to tell.
It helped me immensely. I can’t even tell you. Is it possible he’s just not sure if certain things are okay? From what I can tell, and I’m a convert too so keep that in mind, the church culture really does seem to stifle some and light a fire under others. Get two opposites together and you have a problem.
We’re surrounded all the time with sex and sexuality, and we’re kind of trained to tune it out for worthiness’ sake, but…sex matters. It adds to the relationship.
Talk to him (i know, easier said sometimes). Listen to the guys who’ve posted. They sound awfully familiar.
Whether or not it’s a temporal thing or not…I really don’t know, but it doesn’t matter. Not all temporal things are bad, but add to who we are and who God wants us to be. Your happiness matters, his matters, your marriage matters, and sex is a large part of that.
Good luck, hon.
Comment by LisaJ — November 12, 2008 @ 10:43 pm
I don’t know what “DIY” means, but I’ll answer the rest.
My 16 year marriage’s sex life is what we have created together. It hasn’t just fallen into place. We haven’t just copied what Hollywood claims is what is supposed to “happen.” Both of us are happy with our sex life but good sex didn’t just happen.
Comment by jks — November 12, 2008 @ 10:45 pm
Just in response to Molly, I have to say I laughed out loud when I read your comment. I have to say, I happen to think I have a pretty hot sex life, regardless of the fact that I am mormon. And most of the men I dated before my husband as well as all my college roommates were not the least bit shy when it came to talking about sex. All mormons too, imagine that.
Not to say your comment doesn’t apply to some. My mom thinks I’m going to hell for having oral sex. But I don’t think you can just make a blanket statement like “mormons in general have poor sex.”
Comment by Kasi — November 12, 2008 @ 10:49 pm
Yes, sex does matter! I have been married for 26 years. We have been through no sex, ok sex and va va voom sex. Our sex life has progressed through the years and through children and has definitely gotten better. Looking back on our no sex years, I wish I would have put more effort into it. Our relationship really improves when we have sex. I can’t imagine not having it. It would feel like living with your brother. I believe a married couple needs to have that closeness. Sex improves all aspects of a marriage.
I think women need to get in touch with their inner “sex goddess”. Try wearing a thong for a day, get some toys. You would be surprised at how heated up things can get. When I opened my molly mormon mind about sex, I found out that there was a whole new sex world out there and our marriage has never been better. And I have never been happier.
Comment by Jane — November 12, 2008 @ 10:50 pm
jks - I believe DIY means erotic self-gratification.
I think it does matter, and right now I’m too pooped to please, and I think it’s taking it’s toll.
Comment by meems — November 12, 2008 @ 11:03 pm
He’s an engineer. Engineers love to troubleshoot things. You can be his little research project, have some fun with it. Try the boy/girl KY lubes, or different things. You deserve to have a great sex life.
Comment by Josette — November 12, 2008 @ 11:04 pm
The engineer stereotyping is kicking into high gear. Just remember, some of us are sexual deviants who hate easy to follow instructions, troubleshooting, and research projects.
Comment by Jacob J — November 12, 2008 @ 11:19 pm
Ask me in six months. DH has just started treatment for an illness that will render us celibate for six months. I’m okay with this today. But you better believe we are already planning our second honeymoon in the spring!
Comment by The singing nun — November 12, 2008 @ 11:28 pm
I am so much younger than people who comment here, how odd. I’m 31, and married 6 years.
As Far as things that matter:
Sex
Comment by Matt W. — November 12, 2008 @ 11:31 pm
SO you can’t use certain symbols in wordpress, now I know…
As Far as things that matter:
Sex is less than Love
Sex is less than Trust
The most important thing is that you are open with your spouse about your feelings, as that would show love and trust. You should definitely be talking to him about this, rather than the vaporous internet monster.
And I think it’s probably more of a temporal distraction, to answer your question. I mean I sure hope our eternal selves are not obsessed with consumption, reproduction, survival, and pleasure seeking.
Comment by Matt W. — November 12, 2008 @ 11:32 pm
1. you tell your mom about your oral sex?
2. your poor mother. she don’t know what’s she missing.
Comment by mfranti — November 12, 2008 @ 11:41 pm
#18 was so much funnier before I read #19! I’m still laughing!
Way to go, Matt!
Comment by Numi — November 12, 2008 @ 11:41 pm
1. Buy a vibratior, Now. Show him all the fun buttons.
2. Does he like sex? For him? If so, then truduce the concept of sharing the intimacy together.
3. If not, uh…. vibrator! Which doesn’t replace marital sex, but maybe if you react differently to him, he will return the favor.
4. This is an incredibly difficult issue, so everything I say may be completely off base.
Comment by djinn — November 12, 2008 @ 11:42 pm
no matt. you are about the same age as (most of) the permas and many of the regular commenters.
welcome and don’t feel too young, you’re right behind this old cantankerous bag o guts.
Comment by mfranti — November 12, 2008 @ 11:50 pm
sex is really easy to talk about it but it’s a lot trickier when your nekkid and scared and don’t know how properly insert tab A into slot B and what button does what.
Comment by mfranti — November 12, 2008 @ 11:55 pm
Lori,
Thanks for assuming I don’t have passionate love.
Actually, I am still a hot, young, childless newlywed. (If I do say so myself.) We’ve been married only a year and half. Our sex is great, and I absolutely agree with everyone above that sex is a great way to express love, a phenomenal way to build passion, and can definitely grease some of the kinks in marital relationships.
Still…. I stand by my point, that it is given too much credit. Sex is not paramount. I disagree with the Dr. Phil quote above. If bad sex can become 90% of the problems in a relationship, you’re placing too much importance on sex.
Sure, sex makes me feel really close to my husband, and I have a mother and sisters that made sure I wasn’t sheltered or close-minded about being weird/fun/kinky. But the nights when we stay up for two hours after turning off the lights just talking about our days/issues/lives provide just as much bonding. The simple, kind acts of love and service he shows me all the time say a lot more about how he feels about me than our sex life. And sometimes, I just kiss him like crazy without thinking of going further because I just adore his lips.
There is so much more to a successful relationship than sex. I think this original post is proof of that. 30 years of marriage with bad sex, but they’re still going strong! Obviously, HWC figured something out.
Comment by Natalie — November 13, 2008 @ 12:10 am
So, what happens if the mechanics of your sex life are perfectly fine, but your relationship still lacks passion? I’ve never had trouble reaching org@sm, but I resent having to be coaxed and sometimes guilted (although he probably doesn’t know he’s doing it) into having sex. My darling, attractive, talented, intelligent husband has absolutely no idea how to flirt or seduce me mentally. That’s the passion I want. Is it possible to re-program the man?
Comment by anonymous — November 13, 2008 @ 12:13 am
This blog was just created as a place for mormon (and not) women to get together to discuss sex and religion. Thought you might be interested.
www.vixen-goodinbed.blogspot.com
Comment by i'd rather not say... — November 13, 2008 @ 12:20 am
Maybe this’ll help:
http://vixen-goodinbed.blogspot.com/
It’s a blog where LDS women talk about sex. Not for the faint of heart.
Comment by Anon for this — November 13, 2008 @ 12:20 am
Ha! We both had the same idea at the same time.
Comment by Anon for this — November 13, 2008 @ 12:20 am
I’d recommend the books The Five Love Languages
and
And They Were Not Ashamed.
It sounds like sex may be more important to you than to him, and such a difference is not uncommon.
The first book helps you figure out what means ‘love’ to each of you. How does he feel love? Can you share with him how sex is important to you?
I agree with Natalie that sex is important but should not be a 90% determinant of a relationship. That said, it IS part of a relationship, and was given to us by God, so I don’t see it as a distraction, either.
But I think a key part of it is working together as a couple. NO ONE else can tell you what it ’should’ be like for you, or what you ’should’ do to fix this because the two of you are unique, your relationship is unique, and your situation is your own. What works for one couple may not work for another.
What I like about the second book is that she invites couples to invite God into this part of their relationship.
I firmly believe that part of the purpose of sex is not just to potentially bring spouses together physically, but to bring them together in working together to figure it all out, to figure out what works for them. It’s a private process, imo. And I personally think the difficulty that often comes with this part of marriage is an example of ‘opposition’ that can help us grow, and grow together, if we let it.
Comment by m&m — November 13, 2008 @ 2:31 am
As a male who’s mildly Aspergian and fits the “engineer stereotype” quite well in some ways, I think the first suggestion, by More Shenanigans, might well be the best one. If hubby likes instructions, get him a good instruction manual and study it (literally as well as figuratively) together.
Comment by kuri — November 13, 2008 @ 2:44 am
Oops, I see you weren’t actually looking for advice, but for answers to your questions. My answer is, yes, it matters a lot. To me, anyway.
Comment by kuri — November 13, 2008 @ 2:47 am
Yes it matters. And sometimes it takes a while to get it right. I am 31, married for 13 years almost (holy cow!) and it was tough going at first. The thing that helped me was to finally just relax. I have always had body image issues and felt completely self-conscious about being naked and vulnerable. I finally forced myself to let go of that and it’s been fantastic.
Oh, and for me, a couple of episodes of Sex and the City are always 1. informative and educational; and 2. a nice prelude. Not that you asked.
Comment by Eris — November 13, 2008 @ 3:04 am
You ask if sex matters. I believe only you can answer that. It might to you and might not to somebody else.
The problem is most people don’t really know what goes on in another’s bedroom so it is hard to know if Mormon’s have a problem with sex. If I was to bet I would say yes.
I have one question for those who think sex is over rated or doesn’t matter. What is the only thing you get from your spouse that you can’t get anywhere else? It is sex. And in my opinion great sex involves more than just sex. It is the entire emotional connection.
And I personally believe that what ever turns you on is between you and your partner, whether it be toys, erotic, role playing etc as long as you are both comfortable and don’t feel abused.
And from personal experience, I would if anybody has enough of a problem with the sex aspect of their lives that it is bothering them, then they need to talk about. And don’t rule out counseling before what may be a little frustration grows into a big one.
Comment by Cyclingred — November 13, 2008 @ 6:33 am
For those of you who also think that good sex may not be important to a marriage or may feel sqeamish about erotica, you can always go to the scriptures and get a little info on both.
18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the awife of thy youth.
19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her alove.
Proverbs 5:18-19
Comment by Cyclingred — November 13, 2008 @ 7:09 am
Yes. It matters. For those in a sexless (completely, none, zip, zilch, nada) marriage it matters.
Comment by Anon — November 13, 2008 @ 8:07 am
Oh my darlings do keep going this is so wonderful…
Seriously,everything has been so valuable and my intention is to motivate a discussion which I think has enormous repercussions for all of us in the mormon community,maybe the next step up to a Zion society even where the balance between male and female is considered an essential spiritual quest,a metaphor for connectedness to the infinite?I know I’m not alone.I’ve been checking out the work of Alex Alman and found it to be very sound and useful in that it’s very male centred,but in a deeply digested and feminist way-you have to go there.Thankyou again for your tact and kindness,please keep talking…
Comment by handle with care — November 13, 2008 @ 8:09 am
Speak for yourself. Mormons, those who allow their pre-marriage-inhibitions to dissolve, will have the best sex. But only if they have open, verbal communication about it with their spouse.
I think more Mormons are afraid to talk about sex with their spouses than they are to actually have sex. But it is through the pleasant experience of lying beside each other naked and talking about the experience that real intimacy and real sexual pleasure will come. And it does take a little time.
If approached with a little adventure and a desire to be righteous, sex gets better and better, barring any physical or mental hang-ups that may result from illness, past abuse, etc. These issues need to be worked out with professionals.
Comment by sam — November 13, 2008 @ 8:40 am
oh hell yeah… sex matters. good grief, I can’t imagine why we’d be given a body that could experience such pleasure only to hold that “oh-holy-cow-I’m-seeing-stars” at bey.
like others have said here… we’ve experienced the ebb and flow of sex inside our marriage. no matter where we have been on that continuum of frequency, sex is critical. Sex is really the great communicator - we can say so much without saying a word, e.g. …..
make up sex
glad to see you after you’ve been traveling sex
we got that one graduated from high school sex
Merry Christmas sex
btw - if he’s a voyeur, let him have a peak at some of your DIY and his interest might increase (or the other way around).
sisters and brothers… ya don’t get much better than the saturday morning sex followed by a non-rushed shower and then taking the tie off the bedroom doorknob. it’s a great weekend starter and the teenagers are liable to roll their eyes and mutters something about “get a room” to which I reply “I own the room.”
Comment by Mary Magdalene — November 13, 2008 @ 8:57 am
Perhaps the best sex-related comment ever, said the father with 6 kids who would tell us to “get a room” if they thought it would make a difference at all.
Comment by Ray — November 13, 2008 @ 9:18 am
We may be hung up about sex as a community,re time,garments and ,in my case,just believing that it would sort itself if we kept doing the right things.Turns out it needs time ,attention and practice,like most skills.I told myself,and was supported by what I’d learnt,that it really didn’t matter that much.There was no-one to tell me any different. But I posted in the confidence that somewhere in the church there would have to be those who had really cracked it,and I’m so interested in us sharing ‘best practise’. I don’t mean specifics maybe,but often it’s just attitudinal.In the same way that we may have big problems in our families which may have to do with our misinterpretation and misapplications of the gospel,we also frequently find amazing examples of extraordinarily sensible and right headed behaviour-thing is,you guys that do it right do it like breathing.Clearly MM is one of you who have cracked it.And very corrective it is too.
But I think post feminism unfortunately there is a divide between men who react by becoming aggressively sexually predatory and those who’s tail is firmly between their legs,fearing that they will be mistaken for the former,it’s a dilemma that many men just can’t solve.I’m wondering if priesthood identity can be a touchstone for men,and women ,in grappling with this.Or is that another post?
Comment by handle with care — November 13, 2008 @ 9:53 am
My family sometimes accuses me of being a prude, so I guess I haven’t got much advice to give, LOL.
I willl say this, though. I’ve known some Mormons who are waaaay more prudish than me. I remember a sister in my home ward commenting during a RS chastity lesson about how when the Wal-Mart ads come in the mail, she chucks them before her kids look at the underwear section.
I bet she was just keeping them for herself.
Comment by TheFaithfulDissident — November 13, 2008 @ 10:06 am
I wish I had a better answer to this one (and being a man, am a little hesitant to post on this because of the stereotypes about men and sexuality). We are bombarded by competing messages on sexuality. On one hand, we have the worldly messages which focus so narrowly on sexuality: the vast majority of the music we listen to, the advertising we see, the popular magazines (even fairly innocuous “women’s” magazines; are there any which don’t shout about some sort of sex survey or sex secrets on the cover?) the books that we read (thinking about the recent post on the Stephanie Meyers books), not to mention the pervasive influence of porn in society, all drive home an emphasis on sexuality. On the other is the conventional Christian and Mormon messages which strongly downplay the issue of sexuality, couching it in terms of “procreation” and “intimacy,” and unintentionally help foster what Laura Brotherson, LDS psychologist and author of the book And They Were Not Ashamed, has called “the good-girl syndrome.” With these two competing messages, I find myself unable to find a really comfortable perspective on the topic, always wondering whether my current feelings are my natural feelings, or whether they are engineered by one or the other of these messages (being a bit unbalanced by long-term depression issues doesn’t help). How do we tune out the social messages and find a true understanding about how much sex matters?
On a related note, I think that many LDS (and presumably conventional Christian) men are very much relieved by the fact that more women are expressing interest in sex and sexuality. Our religious culture has for decades suggested that women aren’t interested in sex, which can make some of us feel bad for our own urges and desires. But I also can’t help wonder whether women are feeling more comfortable opening up about their own urges and desires, or whether they are simply being socialized to express sexuality by our hypersexualized media stars.
I get the impression some commentors may have misinterpreted HWC’s statements. I suspect she wasn’t considering seeking a better sexual relationship elsewhere, but wondering whether she needed to take stronger measures to improve her sexual relationship with her husband.
HWC, If you feel dissatisfied, and you are reasonably sure that dissatisfaction is internal and not generated by our social messages, then I think Natalie’s advice is good: stir the pot yourself (no, that isn’t another euphemism for DIY
). Be more aggressive in pursuing sex, and find ways to make it more playful. Perhaps you could bring a blindfold, some restraints, and a feather to bed and use them on him. Try things like that a few times, and he might get the idea to be more creative himself. Or perhaps you generate your own little bit of erotica, writing out a fantasy of what you’d like him to do to you, and leave it somewhere he will find it when you aren’t around (so that he has time to mull it over). I’ve heard that simply having more frequent sex can give men the confidence to be more creative and “spicy,” so maybe you just try initiating more sex.
Comment by Derek — November 13, 2008 @ 10:25 am
Sex is very important. I would say that within a marriage, the percentage of importance is at whatever partner places it in the highest catagory. So, say she says it’s 90%, he says it’s 20%. The answer is, it’s 90% important…because it’s such a personal thing that if one person always feels he/she is not getting enough of it, it becomes Huge- the elephant in the room. Yes, there are couples who offer their sex lives up to martyrdom because they love their spouse to pieces and don’t want to rock the boat…but, if you are not satisfied, why not go for the gold- why not figure out why it’s not happening in the bedroom? (Unless you know for sure that you just aren’t sexually attracted to your spouse, and that can be a devastating thing to have to accept for both of you, if what’s missing can’t be fixed.)
I believe the burden is on the person who wants more or wants it different. It’s been my experience that if I want change, it’s up to me to change myself and the way I think about something. I don’t think it’s helpful to give a book for one reason only…it says to your spouse- “You suck as a lover, here’s a manual”. The exception is if you introduce the book as something you want to read together because you are interested in enhancing your own skills and getting some new ideas because you’d like to seduce him (and that’s the way you say it… you make the reason yourself, not him. If he’s naturally reserved or shy, take all the blame for being outrageous- it lets him off the hook.
Try this, if you’d like (it’s my favorite recipe). Make sure he’s not too tired. Make his favorite meal. Married 30 years? Tell him you read that women reach their sexual peak in these years and you want to take advantage of it while it lasts. Tell him you would like to turn up the heat in the bedroom and make him promise to play along with your seductress role because you are experimenting and feel a little insecure about being so bold. Admit any insecurities, such as, “I need your help, because I feel a little foolish letting the middle-aged body loose, when I wish I looked like I did when I was 20″. (If that applies- or whatever does.)
Tell him you are having crazy fantasies about him and tell him what one of them is… in detail, preferably while you are giving him a back/neck massage and whispering it in his ear (it won’t be long before he’s fulfiling these wishes-if he’s an engineer, he’s got plenty of brain power). Tell him everything about him that turns you on- however trivial you think it is. There are a lot of people, who are not Mormon, who believe there should be even more decorum in the bedroom as we age…the truth is, you are more likely to finally have your house to yourself and have more opportunity to throw dusty decorum out the window.
If he doesn’t warm up, beam with delight, slurp at the table when you show him a little shoulder…well…I’ll eat my hat.
Comment by Kimberly — November 13, 2008 @ 10:51 am
Sex is very important! I had a single sister AT CHURCH tell me when I got divorced that I could be considered a recertified virgin after 5 years without sex. I celebrated that anniversary a month ago!!!! Now what?
I didn’t know what good sex was until I was divorced and I haven’t had any since he left! Just talking with other women (and men too) gave me such insight as to what I have missed out on. So I have been on the boring side of things and I understand. Keep trying and conversation is important. I suggest trying to talk about it away from the bedroom, so the pressure isn’t in his face - so to speak.
At the suggestion of another sister in my ward, I bought my daughter and SIL “And they were not Ashamed” for their wedding. They said it was very helpful.
Comment by big mama — November 13, 2008 @ 10:52 am
Oh, just in case people reading along get the wrong idea about related issues:
Decreased libido can be something that has absolutely nothing to do with how attractive or willing you are to have sex. This is just a medical disclaimer and might apply if you have any of these issues- and of course a spouse needs to be understanding in these cases.
Antidepressants can decrease libido.
Anti-hypertensive meds also- especially beta-blockers.
Chronic pain or chronic fatigue undermines sexual desire.
Grief is a libido killer- literally.
If either partner experienced rape or sexual abuse, the problem is bigger than both of you and requires extensive therapy and healing.
Erectile dysfunction/impotence (If you are taking an ED med, never, ever take nitroglycerin with it if you experience chest pain/heart attack…you can die and never. ever. hesitate to include erectile dysfunction meds on your list of medications. We had two men die in our Emergency Department because they were given IV nitroglycerin and the men did not admit to taking these meds. Wives! Make sure you tell medical people about these meds if your dh is unconscious!
I did not want to cause anyone to feel inaquate in any way by offering my earlier post as advice towards couples who are generally healthy and able to otherwise have regular sex and are experiencing difficulty due to general malaise or boredom.
Comment by Kimberly — November 13, 2008 @ 11:47 am
[…] on November 13, 2008 Surely by now you’ve seen the most recent post at FMH about sex–specifically addressing sexual dysfunction in marriage (methinks the author should spend some time reading Visitor Center posts with her […]
Pingback by More Bloggernacle Sex « The Visitors’ Center — November 13, 2008 @ 11:47 am
I also have to wonder how many Mormon women feel comfortable about lingerie.
GET SOME LINGERIE!
Like I’ve heard a few of my friends (and even myself at one point) say, “eh, it’s going to come off anyway” he will love it. Don’t let him know you have it on until he’s undressing you. haha. Or just surprise him by calling him into the room to “help” you with something.
Orororor, if you guys are like my husband and I, he’s tall and you’re…uh, not. Wear one of his shirts and only his shirts.
Will this mean no garments? Yeah, but c’mon. I think this is one of those times when it would be okay.
#43 Kimberly has some fabulous ideas, too.
Men love this stuff, and if things are “eh” and you haven’t tried it…well, try it. Men *love* this stuff, and it makes you feel sexy as hell. Give it a try.
Comment by LisaJ — November 13, 2008 @ 11:53 am
It matters, because it matters to you. Talk and be compassionate. Let him know what your thinking and want to try. If you need help figuring out exactly how your feeling look for some books, read stuff, tell him about it or ask him to research with you. Try some new toys, lingerie, a new location or get outdoors. Remember to have fun and relax.
You have been together along time, this is just another important problem that needs solving. You can do it.
If you want a book with lots of suggestions and how to on positions and techniques and no pictures, just drawings/sketches of people, try: Daily Sex by Jane Seddon (the only picture is on the cover).
Comment by miles — November 13, 2008 @ 12:15 pm
My motto is if it isn’t broke don’t fix it. If it is broke, get fixin’ !
You won’t get a different outcome doing the same thing.
This reminds me of a number of conversations I have had with other LDS women complaining about how they have never had an orgasm or they never have one… or about once a year… and I was shocked, stunned.. What? Never?? What in the world? I have one every time. After awhile I started feeling like I was a freak and I was finding that almost every woman I talked to just expected that they aren’t going to have an orgasm every time, it’s a given. I didn’t know that. Here is what I found out… as I read some other books that talk about this… almost every book written about sex included this teaching/belief that women’s bodies are so mysterious and difficult to arouse that most times they won’t have an orgasm and that they shouldn’t try to and focus on other things other than an orgasm. When I first read that I started laughing. Hmmm… guess we were doing something wrong for the past 10 years then! LOL Because I orgasm every time and the times when I don’t… those are the times when I can not relax my MIND and body enough and let go. I have found {with a house full of 6 children and all kinds of interesting situations}, that my mind controls so much of my arousal and attraction along with my husband’s attentiveness and his selflessness {which is a key to great sex I believe}.
I am beginning to wonder if this inability for so many women to experience orgasm is because 1. they have been taught they shouldn’t make that their goal every time or they’ll be disappointed, 2. they have been taught that sex is only for a man’s pleasure and not theirs, 3. they have believed society’s image of the ‘good girl’ and that enjoying sex means they are bad, 4. they don’t know or haven’t spent enough time figuring out what turns them on and then communicating that lovingly with their spouse. 5. and they don’t know the basic mechanics of how men and women are aroused and the different ways it takes for a woman to be aroused and take advantage of time to figure it out individually.
My husband and I talk about sex often. In the beginning of our marriage, we read different books, tried different things, figured out what was comfortable for us, and made helping me reach orgasm for the first time one of our top priorities. {Both of us have no past history of sexual abuse and/or health problems so we had no other hang ups to keep us from feeling safe or letting go.} We consider it a mutual pleasure/satisfaction for both of us to reach orgasm and in order to do so, we have found that both of our bodies work differently, obviously. The first 10-20 minutes are spent with getting warmed up and lots and lots of open mouth kissing. Now before you tune out: here this! My friend who didn’t have an orgasm but once a year admitted that they never kissed during sex! I about fell over! WHAT?! Your mouth is connected to your vagina. {As any good midwife will tell you} If your mouth is loose and open and relaxed and inviting so will that area be welcome and inviting. I highly recommend if you need more lubrication, need to be more open and trusting… heck, do a lot more open-mouthed kissing {the kind you did before you were married when that was all you could do!} It may seem like a simple thing… but it does wonders.
For passion… what works for us… is doing what the other partner enjoys. That has been the key. We spend a lot of time taking turns doing things to pleasure one another… what pleasures one person does not pleasure another so that’s why it’s so individual but the key then is communication and talking about it… I don’t make a big deal with my husband about it. I just ask him when I touch him in certain places, “Do you like this better or this?” When he is touching me, I place his hands where I want them and sometimes show him how light or hard to touch me…afterawhile he knows my spots and what works and he has learned that I am not the same yesterday as I was today so he always clues into what I say and do and is always asking me with his voice and touch if that’s what I like… his #1 priority has been whatever makes me comfortable. And any guy that has a great sex life will know that what makes sex great is when his wife is having as much pleasure as he is, because it pays off in the long run for him! I guess that’s why I said the key is selflessness. When my two younger brothers were getting married and wanted advice on sex before the big night… after talking about mechanics and how a woman’s body works and where a woman is usually sensitive, I told them this piece of advice that I felt was the most important…”It’s all about her. If your whole sexual experience is all about trying to fulfill her it’ll be great for both of you.” They admitted later that I was right.
I have found personally that it’s a whole mind/body experience and your body can be doing the right things but if you check out in your mind or you’re mad at your husband, etc, you can EASILY keep yourself from experiencing pleasure during sex.
So much of it is letting go in your MIND first. The body tends to follow what the mind is telling you {so long as there are no other medical or physical problems in the way}. I think that’s why they say that the mind is the greatest sex organ.
Comment by bookwormmama — November 13, 2008 @ 1:26 pm
yeah ive been married almost 2 years and my biggest problem is my GARMENTS! i feel sexy in my clothes, i feel sexy naked, but there is always this in-between moment when i just feel like an old lady. if i plan ahead i sometimes do the underclothes lingerie thing, which he appreciates, but those times are not very often.
anyways, we stumble through. sometimes its SUPER hot and sometimes its sort of a snooze. i think its interesting how many people have suggested erotica/sex and the city for good examples. i find SATC makes me feel pretty sexy too but then i feel guilty, like im being un-feminist to watch it. guess my two feminist sides are divided. my inner mary wollstonecraft has yet to meet my inner madonna.
oddly enough my husband is more feminist (or at least more idealistic) than me. hes quite picky about lingerie, worries about objectification, etc. and seems to have a healthy dose of male shame about his body (which is perfectly fit, its just that he’s male). any ideas on how to help him reconcile with his manhood?
Comment by kitties4prez — November 13, 2008 @ 1:40 pm
I agree 100% with bookwormmama.
I think a lot of Mormon women think that it should be all about intercourse, or else there is something sinny going on. Not true. Petting, necking, touching… sometimes the fullest measure of pleasure can’t be achieved in the sex act alone, for a woman especially (but also sometimes for a man!) Being touched and aroused in ways other than just intercourse has been the key to my awesome physical relationship with my husband. Of course, we’ve only been married a couple years… but I also experience the whole fun shebang every time, too. And three years solid of that… well, I think it’s pretty good evidence that foreplay is everything, especially for women but also for men!
Comment by sare — November 13, 2008 @ 1:41 pm
I’ve never had an orgasm with another person. I’m with an amazing man now who is very attentive and ALWAYS wants me to come first so I fake it. It’s not him at all. In fact I still love sex because it still feels really good and he gives so much. It’s all about me with him and I still can’t orgasm… It’s mental though. I don’t know if it was the abuse I faced during my childhood or the abuse I faced in my last relationship… but I just can’t do it…. It really sucks because I want to soooo much with him. He’s exactly the type of man I know could/should be able to make me if I wasn’t mental… lol! I wish I knew how to fix it… I can’t face therapy anymore…. so that option is out.
Comment by Harpy — November 13, 2008 @ 1:42 pm
I might take it easy on the idea of surprising him. Surprises work best when something he certainly likes appears at an unexpected (yet opportune) time. Surprising him with something he’s never encountered or asked for could end rather badly.
For instance, if you’ve never worn lingerie before don’t try to surprise him with it, he might not be the sort to be impressed by lingerie, he may even be turned off by it*. If so walking in the bedroom to find you, tarted up beyond all reason will at best leave him unimpressed and you disappointed, or at worst end in a spectacular fight.
Less communication is unlikely to improve anyone’s sex life.
*Men are not as predictable or monolithic as Victoria’s Secret would have us believe.
Comment by Starfoxy — November 13, 2008 @ 1:48 pm
I’ve read a lot of comments about what you could do to get your partner more interested and do things your way. One of the worst things about only ever having one partner is do you even know what your way is? With no other experience with anyone else, all you really have is this vague suspicion that there should be…something more, something better, something borrowed, something blue–take your pick.
But this is also the best thing about only have one partner. You learn and grow together. If the rest of your marriage is good, you should take your cues from that. How do you solve problems in the other aspects of your marriage? You talk about them. The other person can’t know what is wrong if you never say. Think about how ridiculously ignorant about sex we are when we first get married beyond the basic mechanics. It takes time to learn all there is to learn, and going through that process with one special person is really a wonderful thing. It does take years to get right (maybe not thirty, though). When you read that scripture about a man cleaving unto his wife, I think the “cleaving” is a process.
That being said, I think the original question regarded how important it is. It’s important. But, actually having an orgasm during sex isn’t as important as the fact that he should want you to have one and do what it takes to please you. Actually having sex isn’t as important as knowing the other person wants to and desires you. Good sex is about trust and respect. It should mirror or echo the trust and respect you hold for each other in your life outside the bedroom.
I remember one time when I was about seventeen or eighteen and I overheard some of my co-workers talking about sex. They were both divorced and I considered them to be experienced with it. One of them turned to me and said, “Sex is not worth getting married for.” That helped me so much in being patient for marriage, and it still helps me keep things in perspective.
Comment by Misty — November 13, 2008 @ 3:04 pm
Misty–
that too. I went back and read my comment and want to make sure nobody thinks that I think everyone should have my experiences. And of course trauma and shame issues play a huge role (IMO especially for women.)
I saw therapy being mentioned a few times… I’ll mention it again. If you’ve had sexual abuse in the past, then it will probably affect your relationship with your spouse. This is my second marriage… the first was an episode I have put behind me but it took a lot of therapy, talking, letting my partner know what things scared me, what things were “triggers”, those can be more painful and embarrassing to discuss than sexuality itself is. And a therapist can help if you find you’re hitting a brick wall.
Comment by sare — November 13, 2008 @ 3:22 pm
Amen to bookwormmomma. I have to admit I am grateful my husband has that same mentality.
HWC, to answer your question of “How much does sex matter?”, I think the answer depends on how you view sex - is it the end or the means to an end? Personally, the end I want is what Natalie #5 described. Sure, my “hot bod” (ahem - this is the internet. I can pretend) is what initially attracted my husband to me, but I want the kind of love that lasts when the hot bod is gone. One of the sweetest stories I have heard lately is of a husband who lovingly cares for his wife 10-20 years after a drunk driver hit her and caused much physicial and mental damage. When I read the story, I thought, “Does my husband love me that much?” I think so. Do I love him that much? I hope so.
I think sex is the means that helps us get to that end. It bonds us. The better the sex is, the more bonded I feel to my husband. But, I also feel bonded with the more communication and intimacy (sharing vulnerabilities) we have. And the more hard experiences we have to get through together. I think sex is one important part of a good marriage, but, honestly, if it isn’t great, I don’t think it is worth walking away from a marriage that is wonderfu in every other way.
Comment by Stephanie — November 13, 2008 @ 3:26 pm
#55 Misty, amen, what you said here…
“But, actually having an orgasm during sex isn’t as important as the fact that he should want you to have one and do what it takes to please you”
-I think you hit the bullseye here.. it is about selflessness…
And if our society/religion/family, etc has taught so many of us that orgasms for women during sex aren’t important then maybe men have also been conditioned to believe that it’s not as important to a woman to have one and so if she isn’t having one it really isn’t a problem since he’s working fine, so, why try? Maybe some unconditioning is called for in both parties and not just in the case of orgasm, but for other sexual things as well… oral sex, etc.
To the original poster, HWC, does your husband know how important this is to you? Does he have a clue about that? Maybe part of the problem is in the answer to those questions… because we can’t do what we don’t know… and we can’t fix what we don’t know is broken…
I don’t know if I answered it earlier, but I think that if sex is important to you {or the lack thereof} then it is important for your marriage period and vice versa and if it’s important to you, it should be to him… let’s turn it around and imagine that your husband was unfilfilled sexually, or not receiving the full pleasure from your sexual union that he could, wouldn’t you want to do the most that you could to help him and how could you even know if he was having a problem unless he told you about it? {Other than the obvious problem of course}
Comment by bookwormmama — November 13, 2008 @ 4:04 pm
By and large, I think mormons in general have poor sex.
I know a number of married non-mormons who warned me that my sex life would be toast after I was married. Little did they know….
Speaking as someone who was sexually active at a young age and then waited to have sex with my wife til after marriage - the mormon, eternal marriage sex is leaps and pounds more passionate and exciting than anything else I have experienced. I think it was because we waited……and we’re deeply in love of course…..
Comment by thomas j — November 13, 2008 @ 4:05 pm
Harpy,
Maybe you haven’t found a good therapist yet?
Comment by bookwormmama — November 13, 2008 @ 4:05 pm
Maybe… Honestly I can’t remember the abuse as a kid. I’m told that I’m supressing… why would I have sexual problems over something I can’t even remember….?
Usually not orgasming doesn’t bother me so much though since he tries to hard and I know how much he loves me and wants me…. I think feeling attractive and close to him is what’s important. Atleast that’s what really matters to me.
I do hate faking it though… He and I never lie to eachother and this just feels like a huge deception on my part… but I don’t want him to think I’m a head case
Comment by Harpy — November 13, 2008 @ 4:27 pm
I don’t want him to feel stupid either for having believed I’d orgasmed all those times….
Comment by Harpy — November 13, 2008 @ 4:29 pm
I am surprised by how many mormons feel like there is so much that is off limits. Someone mentioned that mormon women feel like anything besides intercourse is a no-no. If that is the case, I could see how their sex lives would be “poor.” So sad.
I just want to echo what has been said several times–if sex matters TO YOU then IT MATTERS.
Comment by Kasi — November 13, 2008 @ 4:41 pm
I posted earlier #11.
I also want to add that if you look at every magazine cover (as pointed out by another commenter) they always have sex tips. Why? Because people will buy the magazine? Why? Because maybe everyone feels like there is something wrong with them if they aren’t having awesome sex all the time.
Don’t buy into that idea, but also don’t buy into the idea that sex isn’t important.
Comment by jks — November 13, 2008 @ 4:50 pm
But what if you love your husband, have a nice relationship, but don’t feel attracted to him anymore, like for the last 4 years (Yes, since having kids)? That is no fun and I don’t know how to get that attraction back.
Comment by Anon — November 13, 2008 @ 5:31 pm
It can be frustrating when your spouse is perfectly content with how things are sexually and you are not.
It’s difficult for me to discuss my feelings on that front as I fear that my wife will take sex away completely, so I’m one of those people who just bears it. And that is the problem with waiting until you’re married to have sex in my opinion. I would definitely have thought twice about getting married during the courting time if I had known how uninterested in sex she would be. We have some great things in our marriage, unfortunately sex is not one of them.
So I would say that it is important for you to communicate with him about it.
Comment by anony — November 13, 2008 @ 5:38 pm
Try dancing lessons to introduce him to the concept of thinking on one’s feet. Seriously. Sex is a lot like dancing. And both are based on reading each other’s cues.
Another idea is a couple’s massage class. Or private (and professional) massage lessons as a couple.
Massage, dancing, and sex have in common things like unity, teamwork, communication, reading each other, creativity, physicality, and experimentation to see what you enjoy.
If your husband is smart, then he can learn new tricks. But he first has to learn how to learn things in the human-body realm of the physical, and the mind-body physical package. Dance lessons and massage lessons might create a framework in which his engineer mind can find the comfort of structure, and thereby open his learning pathways.
Comment by anonymous — November 13, 2008 @ 5:53 pm
As a guy, I’ll just say that sex and intimacy are both of equal importance. Sex may not always be as important for both partners, so patience and communication, as others have said, are vital.
I currently have a condition that has temporarily (I hope!) rendered me incapable of regular sex. Treatment requires surgery, and is not always successful, and so my wife and I talk about it and are dealing with it as best we can. Our sexual activity is more limited, but we have found creative ways and variations that seem to fill the need.
None of this would work if we weren’t actively talking about our needs and our concerns.
Comment by Unknown at this time — November 13, 2008 @ 6:44 pm
I don’t want him to feel stupid either for having believed I’d orgasmed all those times….
lol!
This is a wise move…
Comment by thomas j — November 13, 2008 @ 7:03 pm
#65 Is it that you don’t feel attracted or do you never feel in the mood? It is common for women to experience decreased libido after children for a number of reasons. Fatigue, hormone levels, depression or neglect of the marital relationship are some of them. Sometimes, in making the transition to motherhood, being a wife gets left in the dust.
But truly, lack of libido always warrants an honest chat with your gynocologist and primary care physician to investigate root causes, which could be medical. Sometimes, it’s psychological issues- are you angry because you aren’t getting enough help around the house? Do you go on dates and spend time alone? Or are you saying that there actually isn’t anything you find attractive about this man you married? Is it a physical problem- extra weight or something else you can identify? That’s some real trouble there and I’d run to a therapist to discuss it to find out if there’s anything to salvage. Not that you have to answer any of these questions in a public forum…it’s just that you have to investigate this on your own, to find out what is going on.
Comment by Kimberly — November 13, 2008 @ 7:16 pm
I haven’t read the other comments so I don’t know if anyone has suggested this yet, but get the book “They Were Not Ashamed” from Deseret Book. Seriously, the best money I have ever spent.
Sex absolutely matters! It is vital to happiness in marriage.
Comment by Sarah — November 13, 2008 @ 8:44 pm
Perhaps this is a good opportunity for Mormons as well?
Happy Thanksgiving, indeed!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/13/earlyshow/living/relationships/main4598299.shtml?tag=topHome;topStories
Comment by TheFaithfulDissident — November 14, 2008 @ 4:54 am
The first time I had sex I thought I’d hit the jackpot; I hoped to continue that particular practice for the rest of my life. Often. I’m female, my ex-husband was the one who withheld sex, once he realized he could control me that way. I think he learned all the wrong things from me, at least from what I read.
Up until roughly the 16th century in England, at least, the woman was considered the more sexual being, then it switched. Poof. (actually, I belive the switch had quite a bit to do with the sudden presence of venereal diseases brought to Europe from the south seas by sailors and immediately spread to all and sundry) I think Females are more versatile (other than me), in that many more of them seem to be able to take it or leave it.
It’s too complicated for me to figure out; however, when people who could not see (after a certain age) have operations that let them see the world for the first time, it’s too late….
I suspect sex is the same way, sorta. There’s a time to begin. Not too early, not too late.
Comment by too embarrassed to say — November 14, 2008 @ 5:41 am
@66 - In the same boat. It’s hard, kind of difficult to even bring up the subject and the whole idea of just waiting it out and letting time takes its role is just not the most appealing rout.
Any way, I guess I have a question for people. I am a male, and it seems that the roles are reversed in our relationship. I am the one wanting more, and my wife is content with doing the same thing. It’s good, don’t get me wrong, but change ups are good things to me to keep on your toes, you know? Our sex life is like others, up and down, just average I would say. We have been married 2 years. To be completely open and honest, orgasm wasn’t a mutual thing until 6 months ago. I seem to be the inquisitive one, my wife seems to be more reserved. I don’t mind talking about sex, or communicating about it. I like to troubleshoot, see what works, what doesn’t, try new things, be spontaneous, etc. It just doesn’t seem to go over that well. I grew up in a household where my parents, brothers and sisters spoke of sex openly, not about details, just about sex life. My wife is the opposite. She likes it, we do it, but trying to improve it and make fireworks on a regular basis is a pretty daunting task. Then talking about what she likes and what works is a lost cause, it’s easier to just do it then to even communicate about it. I would obviously rather do it than not, but am I wanting too much to even talk about it openly? Do I have too many expectations?
I guess, what I am getting at, is what are some steps to help us be more open with each other in our relationship? What have you found that works?
I appreciate the help, it is an awkward step to hurdle to actually talk about it in the open, even though I prefer to go by anonymous at this moment. Any help is welcome!
Comment by Anonymous Male — November 14, 2008 @ 12:17 pm
I’ve only been married for two years, but I have lots of questions about sex.
First of all, to those who said they fake the Big O. You’ve gotta stop that! I can only come with oral sex, but I used to pretend that I was coming during intercourse. I would fake it partly not to hurt his feelings, and partly because I wanted him to come so it could get over it, because that stuff can start to hurt after 20 minutes or so, when the lube dies down. I just stopped pretending, and when it was getting too long, I would passionately whisper where I wanted him to come, then he would go. Now, he realizes that I don’t go during intercourse, so it makes it a little better.
But here’s my problem. Why can I only go with oral sex? I LOOOOOVE oral sex, but it is a lot of work for my husband, and I feel bad if he feels like he has to do it every time. I also think he has a hard time accepting that I can’t go during sex, and he tries really hard to get me to. That usually just slightly annoys me, and that’s obviously not good.
For you women that say you orgasm every single time. How? What do you mean, let it go? I know several women that say it took time to learn and that they didn’t at first. But how? What is there to learn, exactly? My mind is always really active during everything, including sex, so maybe I’m distracting myself too much.
Advice? Specifics?
Comment by Just Someone — November 14, 2008 @ 2:35 pm
Just Someone-
If you aren’t familiar with the clitoris then you should learn all you can about it, post haste! Here’s what I know about it:
If you get a fetus that hasn’t begun the process of gender differentiation there are all early versions of bits that correspond in adult men and women. The ovaries and testicles are clearly different, but they have similar functions and start out from the same bits of tissue. So it is with the clitoris and the penis, they are obviously different but have similarities and start out from same bits.
The clitoris is erectile tissue that is very rich in nerve endings. It is also hugely variable in size, location, and sensitivity. There is reason to believe that the ‘g-spot’ is simply the other end of the clitoris, and the reason some women have a g-spot while others don’t is because of the individual variations in the size and placement of the clitoris.
There is also reason to believe that women who regularly climax through intercourse alone do so because intercourse provides them with adequate clitoral stimulation (again due to the variation in size and placement of the clitoris). Women who cannot (or do not) climax from intercourse alone are not necessarily doing something wrong.
Things to try are varied angles of approach alone or combined with manual stimulation (instead of oral). One can also purchase (on amazon!) rings with attachments that will provide stimulation for you as he goes through the motions of regular intercourse.
Comment by Starfoxy — November 14, 2008 @ 3:17 pm
#74 As a woman in her mid thirties, I am the one always wanting more sex. I truly feel for teenage boys, as I look longingly at the washer on the spin cycle. All through our marriage our sex drives where relatively well matched, so this has been quite a change for us. Along with a greatly increased drive, I have become much more adventurous and really desired more creativity. My husband has really enjoyed that, but was rather surprised about some of it considering our past sex life. We have had to have some talks about what my needs are and what he and I feel about it. Although we had both initiated sex before he felt a little overwhelmed with my amorous needs. The talks always happened away from making love and during a time when we were really ready to listen to each other and had the time to truly let the discussion progress. It was hard, it is never easy trying to discuss such details and try to negotiate for changes that work for both. Plus away from the moment, some things seems silly to ask about, but you have to face it. If I couldn’t talk about it, no changes where going to happen. It took him awhile to truly understand my needs and understand them. It also helped that I was willing to make changes and support his needs. We bought some books, and I bought a couple vibrators. Best purchase ever. I was surprised how much he enjoyed them, one they feel good, but two, he felt it wasn’t always him who had to help me reach orgasm. Just the idea of that helped and that If he was tired he could just watch or come in half way through.
Communicate in a loving way, explain what you want to try and ask how she would feel about it or what she would like to try. It is not about getting what you want, but both of you finding ways to better fulfill the other needs while feeling comfortable with it all.
#75 Oral sex rocks, there is nothing wrong with you if that is how you can orgasm. Regular intercourse rarely stimulates you clitoris enough to get you all the way. Try having you or him stimulate your clitoris with your fingers during intercourse. Read some books and try some toys. I also have a really over active brain. Imagine the best sexual encounter you can think of and it may help you get in the moment better.
Who comes first doesn’t matter, what matters is at the end everyone has had their cake.
Comment by my two cents — November 14, 2008 @ 3:52 pm
For me, it’s (OK, I’d better be anonymous now because a few of my friends regularly visit this ) manual stimulation that seems to work best. We’ve done oral, and that works too, but I’m less comfortable with that. Get yourself a good oil or lubricating gel. But the oil is even better… this kind called “mother’s special blend”, meant for eliminating stretch marks during pregnancy, is awesome. Have him oil his fingers up.
Anyway, I’ve never tried any toys, but i’ve heard the vibrator works really well, too… and can be a starting point for those women who can’t loosen up enough to enjoy other forms of stimulation right away.
It’s a very psychological thing… you have to “allow” yourself to enjoy it or else it feels like too much stimulation, or too ticklish, or just not very nice. But if you can relax into it, and get yourself used to the process, you can start having regular orgasms.
That’s my advice!
Comment by anonthistime — November 14, 2008 @ 4:36 pm
Yikes, hopefully somebody will remove that link to the above anon!
It took some training for me to have orgasms every time. For one thing, by “orgasms every time” I don’t necessarily mean that I have orgasms during the penetrative act. I just mean that I come at least once during the encounter. Usually my husband performs oral sex on me or we’ll have mutual oral sex or just manual stimulation. My husband’s feeling is that I should have an orgasm every time so he always gives me at least one before we have intercourse. He loves to go down on me and with a lot of practice and constantly letting him know exactly what works and what doesn’t, I’ve managed to time my orgasms before he gets tired. I’m very vocal and deliberate in bed because it’s only fair that he pleases me and that he receives the proper instruction to do so. He appreciates it, for sure.
Over the years I’ve become more adept at coming during penetration. I can’t really explain exactly how it works but it’s all about clitoral stimulation. Sometimes he pulls up very high on my body and I straighten my legs as much as possible; that places my pubic bone in a good spot to stimulate my clitoris from the outside. I have to tighten my whole lower body and find a good rhythm. Other times I just use my fingers at the same time, which he loves.
Pelvic floor exercises are so important to training yourself how to come. Orgasm, in my opinion, is 90% the job of the woman’s mind and body. With some effort I can even have an orgasm - though a pitiful one - without even being touched, just by doing pelvic floor exercises and thinking about it.
“Going with it” for me just means that there’s a specific point at which I know I could have an orgasm if I just let my entire lower half relax. I can’t think about it or plan it or try to make it happen. I’m a constant thinker, too, but during sex I have to just try to be complete sensation without a brain. That’s the best that I can describe it. It requires so much trust and a certain modicum of self-confidence to be able to let go like this, but it’s also something that is achieved by training. Masturbation was essential for me to figure out how to have orgasms in the first place and exactly what needed to happen for me to have them when I want them. Many women need to create a muscle memory for an orgasm by masturbating alone when they aren’t under pressure to perform for their partners.
Many women I know say that they have to be on top to have an orgasm with penetration. This way you can touch yourself or he can touch you. Or you can arrange yourself just so, so you get the right stimulation. Just riding him on top doesn’t really work for me, so I lay down flat on top of him and stretch my legs along his, so that we’re like mirror images. It’s basically like we’re skin-to-skin on every frontal surface of our bodies and our faces are very close. It’s really hot this way, very intimate. This works great for both of us.
One thing I’ve done a few times to spice things up in the bedroom is that I’ve tied up my husband and masturbated in front of him. He can’t touch himself or me. This drives him so crazy that by the time I untie him he’s completely out of control. This is a very special treat that only happens a few times a year.
I’m very happy to see this discussion because sex is important if it’s important to you, and to most of us, it’s important. We should all talk about these things more with trusted friends, so that we all know how normal we are and to get new ideas. It’s such a relief to be able to talk about these things with people who accept you.
Comment by another anony — November 14, 2008 @ 5:16 pm
this is so great to read this from other mormon women. my husband and i have a pretty adventurous sex life and i have always felt a little weird about it…not that it stopped me.
#74 this is really the situation i think my husband found himself in with me but we have overcome the problem and then some. what he did (and still does) is usually during sex he will whisper something in my ear that he might want to try and usually because we are already excited i feel more comfortable agreeing to it, but there have been times when he suggested something and I didn’t want to so i just said no or suggested something else. (oh and it helps if the lights are out when he suggests something) He has never pressed the issue, ever, so i never felt pressured. And even if I said no that night just by asking me he planted a seed and then i would think it through for a couple days and then he will usually ask again at some point and if I say no he knows that’s it. but usually I feel more comfortable with the idea at that point and I will either agree or add some kind of modification. He knows he needs to give me time to adjust to an idea sometimes–it’s funny but he knew this about me before I knew this about me. Also there were always two reasons that i was hesitant to try something- 1) because of all the rumors in the church that certain things are a sin and 2) i felt uncomfortable with my body. He has helped me get over those things, very early in our relationship we spoke with a bishop to try to clear up some rumors about what was ok and not and he said anything is fair game as long as the partner wants to as well. So that was really helpful for me. And as for the body image thing, after two pregnancies/children, and being in my best and worst shape my husband has always oogled over my body. because I know that I am less embarrassed about trying something new, he just reassures me the whole time.
I would say just talk about it with her, while lying in bed with the lights off so you can be close but she doesn’t have to feel embarrassed, to see if she is open to new ideas. My husband and i have had some great discussions about sex while taking road trips and discussing it at night–that way there is a distraction with driving and you can’t really look at each other–just make sure the kiddos are sleeping!
#75 i orgasm every time but it is all about manual stimulation. I couldn’t otherwise with intercourse. but honestly that just makes it all the more fun for us. it is great too because when i do it i know exactly how much pressure and such so I can orgasm a lot faster-we almost always go together.
boy am i glad this is anonymous…
Comment by anon — November 14, 2008 @ 5:29 pm
for anonymous male i would suggest reading back over this board and taking some of the advice? i am in a similar place, my husband is much more reserved than me, we were raised differently. It takes time and comfort…have you ever told her directly what you want? or made suggestions? if so, does she turn you down flat?
for justsomeone your problem may be physical or psychological. does intercourse hurt you, or just fail to stimulate you? im still working on my own never-fail orgasm practices, but if you’ve tried lots of positions for it and it still does nothing for you, it’s probably some kind of psychological block.
its weird how big a role psychology plays in these things. having an orgasm is like meditating…it takes focus and patience. for me.
thems my opinions.
Comment by kitties4prez — November 14, 2008 @ 5:35 pm
I love the advice! Just a few more questions, though.
How do you manage manual stimulation during intercourse? He tries often (like if he’s behind me, he can reach it really comfortably), but the problem is, if he’s inside of me, none of my natural lubrication is getting to my clitoris, and it is NOT pleasant to have a dry clitoris rubbed. We’re very comfortable together, and willing to try most things. But I guess sometimes I feel like it is too physical, and not mental or emotional enough. I ask him if he has any fantasies, and its basically just, “Nope, just you naked and having sex with me”, and he can’t really get more detailed than that…. believe me, I’ve pressed… and its not that he’s shy… he’s a convert to the church, so he’d had plenty of experience before me. Actually, sometimes I’m uncomfortable with that fact; not because I’m jealous, but because he said he’s never had a problem bringing a woman to orgasm before, and it makes me thing I’m doing something wrong. Erg.
I think we’ll definitely try the oil sometime soon. We’ve been crazy busy/had colds/gotten dental work done/been on my period for the last month and a half, so its actually been pretty sparse lately. But I’ll try to take all your advice and put it to good use.
Another anony (#79)… which floor exercises do you think work best?
Comment by Just Someone — November 14, 2008 @ 5:42 pm
Also, I really enjoy intercourse (at least for a while, before I start to get sore, which is at least 15 minutes). My favorite position is actually when he starts behind me, and then I lay flat on my stomach, and he lays on top of me. It hits that delightful G-spot just under the pelvic bone, and feels so, so, so good, but I just can’t ever finish it off!
Comment by Just Someone — November 14, 2008 @ 5:56 pm
JS, I do Kegel exercises, which are also great for pregnancy/childbirth. I’ve never used an instrument for them; I just do them on my own.
I’ve never had a problem with lubrication if I use my fingers during intercourse, but everything is already pretty lubricated, especially if he goes down on me first, plus we use condoms so the lube from that might come off. Lube might help you a lot if you can’t get enough of your own during intercourse.
Comment by another anony — November 14, 2008 @ 6:12 pm
To answer the above question,
I have not yet been able to regularly experience orgasm during actual intercourse. Usually it’s before, or after, with just him using manual stimulation. I think we’ve been able to do it *once*, but it was complicated and a little awkward, with him trying to fumble around AS intercourse occurred, but it took a whole lotta work, and I like it just fine the way we’re doing it.
I like those suggestions above, though. Will have to try.
Keep in mind I’ve only been married about 3 1/2 years. So…. we’re still practicing… I’m betting, though, that being able to achieve regular orgasm is an important step to being able to achieve it sometimes during the actual sex act, if that is your goal. Whew! Won’t post my link this time… lol… hopefully I didn’t shock any friends or family last time…
Comment by anonthistime — November 14, 2008 @ 8:11 pm
hey here’s another thing. are you on chemical birth control? i got on the nuva (?) ring when i first got married, which is supposed to be pretty mild, but my sex drive still plummeted. about seven months in we got on condoms (cheaper) and things are much easier now.
Comment by kitties4prez — November 14, 2008 @ 8:48 pm
A great way for him to be able to manually stimulate you easily during sex is to be on top and sitting up, plus you can also stimulate yourself and control the motion. Another way is to put your feet on his chest when he is above you. He will be sitting back some, but your legs can also help support him if he wants to lean forward some. Then his hands are free to reach around or through your legs, especially if you let your knees fall apart. If your clitoris is sore keep lube near by and have him add some to you or his fingers half way through.
When I asked my husband once to tell me a fantasy, it was very similar to the above story. Very short no detail. So tell him one of yours, include what you need to feel more sensual and sexual. Let him know this is what makes you crazy. Now if my husband wants to help that way he adds alot more.
I think mixing it up is the best. Take plenty of time before starting vaginal intercourse. Play around pet, neck, suck first and maybe at the end.
When we first married I had a hard time coming first. It was a big stress for me, but once he would come then I could relax and finish up. I think I felt worried that I couldn’t help him enjoy it, once I knew he was happy and satisfied I could finish up with him manually stimulating me or going down on me. This has changed over time.
I love the idea of whispered ideas and giving a spouse that planted seed about what you would like. Then giving them the time to deal with it and find how they would be comfortable with it.
Comment by my two cents — November 14, 2008 @ 9:11 pm
Sex matters. A lot!!
You have 3 aspects that both husband and wife need to work at in order for a marriage to work. Emotional, spiritual, physical. If only 2 of those are functioning properly you are going to have problems. It doesn’t matter which two, or even which one, but if all three aren’t working together you need to figure out why. Maybe it is you, maybe it is him. I would say that after 30 years of marriage you would hopefully know how to communicate better. If you don’t, well, better late than never.
Sex is so important to our happiness. Men/women are that they might have joy. What do we get joy out of? Well a lot of things, but we can especially get joy out of sex.
How do you suppose we would create in the next life? Ya, sex is important. Maybe the most important of all.
Comment by Sunshine — November 14, 2008 @ 10:08 pm
I am on a low-dose birth control pill. My husband hates condoms. But if that could be affecting things, it’s definitely something to consider.
I wouldn’t mind saving the monthly bill, either. Although if it really makes a difference, maybe we’ll need to start spending that much on condoms.
Comment by Just Someone — November 14, 2008 @ 11:00 pm
How can you tell him what to do if you don’t know yourself? Focus on DIY. Get creative and keep trying different things until you are able to reliably bring yourself to org*sm. Other commenters have given you plenty of books and sites for ideas. Once you find a foolproof way to give yourself satisfaction, you can give your hub clear instructions.
Even when you and hub are together, your passion and satisfaction have a lot to do with your mental state, not just how he is physically touching you. Not being able to reach org*sm can lead to negative thoughts and feelings - anxiety, frustration, anger, boredom. Those feelings make it more difficult for your brain to feel org*smic, even if hub is doing everything “right.” Do something to help yourself relax and just be in the moment. Deep breathing. Visualize your thoughts floating away like balloons. And then give him clear instructions about what you want.
Comment by Beijing — November 14, 2008 @ 11:18 pm
I was thinking about the initial post here. HWC said “DH and I have thirty years of love and friendship-but not passion. Don’t get me wrong, I love sex and he is a considerate lover but not a creative one.”
I wonder: what is passion? Is a lack of creativity an indication of a lack of passion? One couple might never deviate from their set pattern: They glance into each other’s eyes, they rip off each other’s clothes, and they dive right into furious copulation. They might not be creative, but aren’t they being passionate?
How much of our perception of passion is shaped by Madison Avenue and Hollywood, both of which (as JKS rightly indicated) are seeking to profit through deliberately cultivating a feeling among the public that there is a void in their lives–something which they suggest can be filled by this or that product, this or that bit of entertainment. Is our desire for that nebulous concept we call “passion” a genuine desire, or artificial? Would we be content with “ordinary” sex if it weren’t for outside influences planting thoughts of creativity or the sort of passion I described above? Or is the desire for variety and raw emotion innate to our humanity?
I am in no way diminishing HWC’s dissatisfaction, and I appreciate playful sexual exploration as much as anyone. Your interest may well be a real interest on your part, I just think it is worth considering what else this desire may originate or what else it might mean.
Another thought: I got the impression (I was skimming, so I apologize if the impression was incorrect) that some people were dissatisfied with their sex lives because it was up and down, not spectacular every time. But I would suggest that a range of experiences is a sign of a healthy sex life. Contrary to the depictions in books, real sex isn’t always incredible. I think a good sex life involves a lot of pretty average sex just to keep things going, some quickies thrown in for variety, some playful sessions, some slow, romantic dalliances, some wild monkey love, and the rare moment of transcendent bliss here and there. I mean, if every time was mind-blowing, wouldn’t that become monotonous by definition?
I find it interesting to see the responses of many of the women here. Despite the cultural assumptions about men, women, and sex (one which Too Embarrassed rightly points out is fairly new; look at the ancient Greek comedy Lysistrata), I have gotten the impression from many couples I know that the women are just as likely to have a higher libido. The post here seems to support that observation.
Interesting also that several people here have difficulty with intercourse lasting too long, challenging the cultural stereotype about hair-trigger men and women who want longer coitus. I wonder if you’ve tried purchasing lubrication to reduce the chaffing?
I’m very doubtful that sex in this life has any connection with the creation of spirits after exaltation, if that is what you were suggesting, Sunshine. There is so little we know about that period of our existence that any such suggestion is merely speculation. Not that this in any way means that sex isn’t perhaps incredibly important for stress relief, for its apparent anti-depressant qualities, for its ability to facilitate emotional bonding between individuals, and for being a whole lot of fun.
Comment by Derek — November 14, 2008 @ 11:24 pm
Hi Everyone,
I hope I can participate here. I have been lurking here for about 3 years, and am married to a Mormon for 7 years…..I’m a non-denominational feminist housewife
I feel strongly that a great sex-life has helped my husband and I grow closer to G-d and have a great spiritual life together….How can something so mind blowingly awesome as the pleasure that we have together come from anyone other?
Anyhow, I have some recommendations for those that might struggle and want some new “toys” aids whatever you want to call them.
First of all a good lubricant is essential (I’m nearly 30 and have never had a problem) but in order to keep things up long enough for both of us to have a good evening, or just to smooth things out if I am dehydrated, it can be neccessary. I had a long search to find something that worked well for me. Its called Liquid Silk. I have only found it online (or in adult stores), but it is so much better than grocery store brands. It is a water based vegan formula that is bio-static (meaning it won’t allow any bacteria it is exposed to, to spread) that has been heaven sent for me….I had bad reactions and was prone to female health issues when using some of the more common brands.
Good Vibrations. I little help never hurts…..My hubby and I both enjoy the sensation together, and have found a small vibe thats comfortable to use while we are actually in the standard positions. It is one thats not designed for penetration (so good if your significant other has hang-ups about that) The one we like is called a Layaspot. We put it between us and talk about shooting to the moon…..
The last thing that has really helped us is a bed wedge. I have some joint problems in my knees and hips and he has some back problems that sometimes preclude the positions that we find most pleasurable. Our heavy duty wedge supports our weight and has made a huge difference in our bodies ablitiy to relax and let go and enjoy the moment…..You aren’t going to be having much fun if in the heat of the moment one of you rolls of the bed clutching your leg howling with a charley horse…..ask me how I know this. We have had big success wth the Liberator Wedge. It doubles as a great reading pillow when not in other use.
All the toys in the world won’t matter if you can’t have a realistic conversation about what you both want though. But they have taken our sex life from good-to out of this world for both of us.
My husband and I have also spent a great deal of time playing and praying together and just in general getting to know each other. We were engaged for 2 years while I finished college and he finished his Navy hitch (and it was a long 2 years) We had a lot of time to talk to each other about fears, desires, loves and fantasies……I realize that Mormon wisdom discourages this because it gets you worked up……but it did work for us.
I will not link to the specific items I mentioned, unless asked….I realize that “marital aids” or “toys” or however you want to term them can be a touchy subject. But if the powers that be are ok with it and want me to, I can link to the manufacturers of said products, but anyone who is interested should be able to google them and find them easily enough. I’m not affiliated with any of these products…..just a very satisfiied customer.
Comment by Not a Mormon, but a Christian Feminist Housewife — November 15, 2008 @ 12:12 am
I mean, if every time was mind-blowing, wouldn’t that become monotonous by definition?
No.
Comment by Ann — November 15, 2008 @ 12:13 am
Derek, you said a lot of what I was thinking. I also don’t understand why people seem to think that something is wrong if sex isn’t transcendent every single time. Our marriages are not always peaking, neither is work or school or friendships or exercise or even spiritual habits like going to the temple or reading the scriptures. The definition of a peak is that there is a lower point. The lower points help us to appreciate the higher points.
I also agree with what you said about the false connection between passion and creativity. Sometimes my husband and I have conversations that run sort of like this.
“Hey, are you bored?”
“No, how about you?”
“No. But we kind of do the same thing every time. Do you think there’s something wrong with us?”
“It works, though. It’s awesome every time. Do you want to do something different?”
“Not really.”
The end.
Sex works differently for everybody and there shouldn’t be a problem based on what you think other people are doing or what you think you SHOULD be doing. Maybe it’s because we live in such a voyeuristic society, but I think we all base our choices and experiences far too much on what other people are doing and how un-normal we must be in comparison.
I disagreed with your comment, however, that regularly mind-blowing sex becomes monotonous. My sex life might appear boring from the outside, because we don’t use toys or lots of different positions or places or actions, but I can’t say that I’ve ever had bad sex or even average sex. It is mind-blowing every time, and I wouldn’t call it monotonous. I would call it…well…mind-blowing!
My husband had a vastly higher libido than I did when we got married, and that was a hard adjustment for us, even after I went off the pill. Now he’s getting older and our sex drives are very well-matched. It requires a lot of patience and acceptance on both parts to make mismatched libidos work.
And I definitely agree about the weird question of long sex sessions. Whenever I hear about people doin’ it all night, all I can think is, “Ouch.” I assume that they’re not having intercourse for all that time, but even without that, there’s a finite amount of natural lubrication that a body will produce for the perceived sake of procreation in a single session. My husband and I might be making love for two hours but intercourse itself probably lasts for less than a quarter of that time, and by the end I’m telling him just to go, baby, go.
Comment by another anony — November 15, 2008 @ 1:15 am
#93
Agreed… mind blowing every time here… for us normal is good foreplay, and we orgasm together…almost every time. I consider something to be off if we don’t and I don’t think that’s monotonous at all and as I said earlier in my post that in our society we are taught that sex for women shouldn’t be as great… that we shouldn’t have an orgasm every time and so we shouldn’t expect it, etc, blah blah… I think that’s wrong and sets us up to get what we expect. I think saying that sex shouldn’t be mind blowing every time is the same kind of thing. It’s a false notion that sets you up for failure from the beginning.
Our great sex life didn’t just happen because of chance or luck, we happen to really like eachother alot… and we have been very open and honest about what each of us likes and doesn’t like and basically focus on being selfless and pleasing eachother. I can count on one hand a number of times when sex has been “Bad” in our almost ten years of marriage and it was because of pain, infection or illness, and/or one or both of us was being selfish.
And to add some passion… try playing strip poker! It’s great for a date night and it’s cheap! :] If you aren’t into poker, try some other card game like go fish… LOL… the winning person each hand gets to tell the other one which piece of clothing that they have to take off until you are both naked… we love this game! :] {we get elaborate and put on extra clothes, layer upon layer…or surprise eachother with something fun underneath our clothes!}
I’m with you guys on the long sex thing… how weird to have sex all night… the only time we have done that was our honeymoon night and we had to take breaks to sleep every few hours! LOL
That was so tiring and we haven’t done anything like that again… though we have come close to it with the “coming home from deployment sex”.
Derek, I will agree with you about some women having a higher libido than men… when we first got married that was me… and it threw us both for a loop and took awhile to work out together. It made dh feel like he wasn’t up to par and made me feel like I was a freak, thanks to cultural assumptions. Now I say forget cultural assumptions… all they do is make everyone feel like a failure somehow.
Comment by bookwormmama — November 15, 2008 @ 2:45 am
Antother thing, if a woman feels that intercourse is taking too long, then start with non-intercourse stuff. Like your hands and tongue on him, his on you too, and then, only when you think the time is right, begin the beguine.
I read some statistic that less than half of women are able to reach organsm by intercourse alone–i’m guessing largely do to clitoral placement (which seems quite variable) than anything wrong with the woman involved. So you feminist mormon housewives of all stripes who don’t get the big “O” from the missionary position, it’s not your fault. It’s just the way it goes. Greek women had dildoes. They’re not a new creation of the modern world. Bonobo monkeys practice oral sex. Us humans- have lots of possibilities — I also suspect (from what I’ve read) that anorgasmic woman can teach themselves how to orgasm using those fun marital aids. Oh, and Kegels.
I was alone for two years. It was rough, but a good friend bought me a cute, animal-shaped (no, not the rabbit, something much less scary looking) vibrator (such a sweet gift, I can’t tell you) as you see, I went through this whole process somewhat backwards, but did figure out how to use it — much different than actual sex— more like -la la la la la l- should I use a different speed ?– la la la Whoa Baby! — much less tension in my life.
So, my advice, if you are have trouble orgasming with your husband, then try practicing solo (with a cute, non-scary vibrator) and see if you can figure out what you like.”So, dear, what are you doing with all these batteries?” Then you can show him.
Also, there exists andactual aphrodisiac out there. Works for a huge number of women and has the only side effect — rather large, it is illegal–Of course, this is Marijuana, which is not in the WoW last time I checked, and also seems to have the most potent cancer-preventing and curing substances known as part of its makeup. But that’s for a different rant-post.
Comment by Djinn — November 15, 2008 @ 11:19 am
I have yet to read or hear from the pulpit or written word by the Brethren anything but the sacred nature of the connubial act…it is so much more than “sheer mechanics” as many of these comments exude..seems to me they miss the point that this behavior between husband and wife, is so sacred, and that it should be discussed and worked out only between the participants…but who am I? Just an old man, aboard as a convert of 75 years this month…have I missed something? For years I have heard not much else but “follow the Brethren” so when they come out with “button pushing’ “G spots,” etc, I will listen, but please spare me and my 5 daughters who prefer the former advice. In the meantime, I will endeavor to recover from the embarrassment I feel.
Comment by h l gleason — November 15, 2008 @ 5:55 pm
I, for one, appreciate the advice and specifics and help. Keeping it between husband and wife is good, but if you have a friend who needs advice, or a daughter, you’d give it, right? I consider this forum full of friends. I guess you don’t yet… but get to know us. We’re nice, and very righteous (most of the time.) (And Hopefully not self-righteous, too much of the time).
So many parents don’t even talk to their children about this at all. Where else are they going to get help when they need it, who else are they going to go to for advice? This is one of the things that can make or break a marriage. As Mormons are very into marriage (as we’ve seen over these last few months) I’d think they’d be very into trying to help marriages survive… and sex is quite often an issue in marriage. (In fact, it IS the biggest, following money.)
Comment by sare — November 15, 2008 @ 6:14 pm
Bro.Gleason.I’m sorry that you’ve been subjected to embarassment,and hope you will feel comfortable in avoiding any further conversations I may have about sex with my sisters and brothers in an effort to enrich our lives as couples.I think you have every right not to be subjected to such conversations.I will clearly identify them with the word ’sex’ in the title,and delight in the fact that you know your daughters so well.
Comment by handle with care — November 15, 2008 @ 6:21 pm
hl gleason - yep, I’ve also never heard the breathren talk about tampons, wiping your butt after going to the bathroom and colonoscopies. I guess they are all out of the question.
Comment by SAMU — November 15, 2008 @ 6:47 pm
I’m sorry. Your post was very informative, but this part made me laugh out loud.
Comment by jjohnsen — November 15, 2008 @ 6:48 pm
As a reply to my previous post, I would say the flip side is some things should be handled with care and in private. And in general I would actually agree that this topic of sex SHOULD be that way.
Unfortunately the privateness of it has actually caused people to develop strange attitudes about sex. Equally unfortunately, the backlash against privacy has caused people to develop some strange attitudes/habits about sex…
Comment by SAMU — November 15, 2008 @ 6:49 pm
And let me second (or third) the book And They Were Not Ashamed. My wife and I read i together and it was great. So much that she’s given it as wedding gifts a couple of times.
Comment by jjohnsen — November 15, 2008 @ 6:50 pm
take more potassium!
Comment by mfranti — November 15, 2008 @ 8:07 pm
Mfranti and JJohnsen, Thanks for your nice replies. I have actually started taking suppluments anyhow since my hubby and I are trying to have a baby. I have also found that daily stretching and some gentle yoga poses done with my hubby have helped us both with our joint problems…..plus its just a fun thing to help each other with. So no more charley horses…..once was enough.
Comment by Not a Mormon, but a Christian Feminist Housewife — November 15, 2008 @ 10:05 pm
To me, sex is only as important as you make it. DH and I have been married 36 years. While we’re not as frisky as we once were, we sure do love to snuggle. Last week DH was fondling one of my ears. I told him he gave me an ear orgasm. Yeah baby!!
Comment by Kalola — November 15, 2008 @ 11:54 pm
Gleason sure did spend a lot of time reading embarrassing material before complaining.
Heh.
Thanks ya’ll this is great.
Comment by Shannon — November 16, 2008 @ 1:00 am
Charley horses during sex… I hear you. Totally ruined the moment sexually but at the same time, I was so amused at the incongruity that I was half laughing and half grumbling about the pain.
This is an interesting thread. I had some things to contribute but I think they’re out of date now. I will say I’ve read so many on-line personal anecdotes of Mormon women specifically having a difficult time with sex for months or even years after getting married… and every time I thank my lucky stars for a very sensitive, communicative and creative husband whom I click with very very well. For the 2.5 years of our marriage we’ve lived apart except for summers, Christmas, spring break and a long weekend here or there so that kind of increases the intensity of the time we DO have together. We just never really take sex for granted. Maybe that’s a key?
I’m going to weigh in on the mindblowing debate too… sex can have such different purposes depending on your mood (which can dictate how much it “matters” on any given occasion, too, to address the actual initial posting) — for comfort, making up, celebrating, or just plain fun, so it can be fabulous in as many kinds of ways.
But for the record, the mindblowingly erotic episodes are also awesome. Tee hee.
Comment by xenologue — November 16, 2008 @ 5:11 am
re: 93-95
Thanks for your thoughts about my “mind-blowing” comment. I can’t say one way or another whether or not consistently mind-blowing will become monotonous, because I can’t say my sex life is consistently mind-blowing. I was asking a question based on the very human tendency in which a given stimulus tends to become less stimulating with repeated exposure (whether that stimulus is a great song we love, a food we enjoy, etc). Eventually, we get tired of it. For myself, I’m fine if not every time is mind-blowing. “Nice” is good for a lot of the time. It seems to me that expecting every time to be mind-blowing is the false notion setting us up for failure. If we have that notion, aren’t we setting ourselves up to think we’ve failed when we’ve had some nice sex, just because it wasn’t monumental? Personally, if I felt that every time had to be mind-blowing, with all the bells and whistles (outfits, props and toys, four new positions out of the Kama Sutra, and at least three hours to spare), the whole task would seem more daunting.
But then, this may be a semantic issue again. What y’all mean by mind-blowing might be very different from what I’m thinking.
Comment by Derek — November 16, 2008 @ 9:55 pm
Derek,
I never get tired of that nice, full feeling after eating!
Comment by sare — November 17, 2008 @ 12:16 am
I meant that in reference to FOOD. As an analogy… not dirtiness.
Comment by sare — November 17, 2008 @ 12:16 am
Derek,
Your last two lines summed it up pretty good… it really depends on what you mean by mind blowing and everyone’s definition is different. Thank goodness, right? :}
I would say 9/10 times we have mind blowing sex , and that does not include any props at all with less than an hour to spare! So how’s that for semantics?! LOL
I agree with #110… I never get tired of that feeling. Ever. It is new every time. Sounds cliche but it’s the truth.
I don’t feel like I am being set up for failure by expecting it to be that way every time. I consider myself blessed and lucky to have a great sex life and knowing many friends of mine who don’t have that or who have lost a spouse or are alone for whatever reason, I don’t take that for granted either. Life is short.
And for someone who said that women can’t have an orgasm in the missionary position .. well, they need to be creative and they need to get into different positions! Many different positions! Be creative and have fun, you might be surprised!
Comment by bookwormmama — November 17, 2008 @ 12:36 am
Personally, if I felt that every time had to be mind-blowing, with all the bells and whistles (outfits, props and toys, four new positions out of the Kama Sutra, and at least three hours to spare), the whole task would seem more daunting.
That is not at all what I mean by “mind-blowing.” It’s not at all about positioning, props or fantasies. It IS all about how it feels. Basic missionary, nothing fancy, over relatively quickly - that can still be mind-blowing.
Comment by another anony — November 17, 2008 @ 9:53 am
Molly, thanks for that inspiration. I’ll let my husband know that I’m supposed to be a repressed, sleep deprived worn out RS matron, wishing for 1. 7 straight hours of uninterrupted sleep 2. a maid 3. a nanny and 4. a Tartlet experience. Then I can pretend I just woke up and while we make love I can fantasize about the maid and nanny.
HWC, everyone’s idea of mind blowing is blessedly different, but its how the experience makes us feel about ourselves and eachother that is important. Its also important to Heavenly Father & Mother. So yes, sex matters. Both you and the hubby might find some ideas in therapy books. My sister wants me to read The Principles and Practice of Sex Therapy by Sandra R. Leiblum (argh, more books!)… we are both abuse survivors and had to work on healing ourselves in order to enjoy a healthy sexual relationship. The Joy of Sex may tell you how, but those positions and diagrams intimidated me since I struggle still with my own self worth… they didn’t do me any good without knowledge and understanding of myself and my hubby.
And for all those Brothers out there, yep, wives are not simple. You will not be able to solve your problems with us solely by reading a book or chart or graph… we deserve hands on service with the kind of nurturing that a Daughter of God deserves.
Comment by KFJames — November 18, 2008 @ 11:54 am
I didn’t have the time to read all the posts– the ones I skimmed through didn’t seem to have much to do with the original question anyway. I have been married a measly 8 years and have been practically celibate for the last 2.5 years. We had procreative sex to get my youngest and I’m planning again for another baby. Before all the frigid woman comments start, be aware that it is my husband that is “too busy,” “too tired,” or just “not in the mood.” For me, I think the lack of sex is symptomatic of a larger, underlying problem, but over all I think sex is supposed to bring us closer. Considering that oxytocin is released upon orgasm (the “bonding” hormone) I would assume that it is designed for bringing a couple closer together. I guess my whole reason for writing is –Sister, you are not alone!
Comment by Cynthia — November 23, 2008 @ 2:04 pm
Cynthia-
You are absolutely right that the lack of sex is symptomatic of a deeper and larger problem. If a woman or a man are not making time for sex it most likely is because they are selfish, have their priorties screwed up or have some physological issue. For men, if they don’t want sex, they are either viewing porn, have a poor libido or sexual dysfunction or some other issue.
But the comments above are correct, sex does bring a couple closer together. It is ordained of God, not just for creating children but for pleasure between a husband and wife.
I have a couple friend where the wife never wants sex. She says their relationship has transformed to a higher level from when they were first married. Her husband disagrees and wants more sex. So, I ask my friend, when she was single and in high school, who influenced her to have premarital sex? Well, I told her, its that same being that is influencing you not to have sex now. I truly believe that is true.
Couples who have sex, often, are closer together, have a stronger marriage, not because sex does it, but because their attitude is as I please my spouse and give myself to him or her, I become more selfish and less distracted by other things in life.
Comment by Jeff — November 24, 2008 @ 5:08 pm
Another anony,
I have no idea whether or not you are following this board still, but…
You described that position where you are on top…. I tried it, and it was a little, um, awkward. How do you move once you get there?
Always grateful,
Just Someone
Comment by Just Someone — November 25, 2008 @ 5:48 pm
need some creative zing?
I recommend books by Laura Corn- great sex writer- has envelopes for his eyes only and her eyes only- and they are lots of great, fun ideas. Sometime the best foreplay is just reading them to eachother.
Comment by roundbelly — November 29, 2008 @ 3:18 am
May I raise a difficult issue?
What if your marriage is completely non-sexual?
After our last child was conceived 8 years ago, my wife announce she was done doing “that”. Since then she has refused everything — kissing, touching, and, of course, any form of sexual activity. Moved into a different bedroom.
I’ve thought about leaving. But, we have 4 children of varying ages.
I’ve suggested counseling. She says nothing is wrong with her. It’s me. Others (she claims many of her friends are the same) can forgo activity, so why not me?
I feel trapped. Unloved. Frustrated.
Anyone else deal with anything similar?
Comment by Steve — November 30, 2008 @ 6:56 pm
Forgive me for not getting back,struggling with long term illness here,but have been following.This has been wonderful from start to finish and whilst I didn’t want this to get too personal(! )all of your comments have been hugely helpful and it’s been wonderful to get such support. This has been truly mourning with those that mourn and comforting those that need to be comforted and has shown me the very best of FMH.I hope it’s been of use to many others also.
We have a very specific environment within the LDS community and we have specific problems with that,and I think we may have worked out some really useful solutions to those problems,but those rarely get shared outside of specific family environments,and that’s really sad. For you,it’s hard to imagine how wrong headed the rest of us can be.Some of you are clearly incredibly open and have learnt amazing things together,for others our church experience has been internalised oppressively. I’m hoping that we might be able to explore best practise here over time.
I gather that one in seven women are not orgasmic,and just one of the hard things is feeling that everyone else is having the fun.Are there church sex therapists who will understand our environment,who will be able to help Steve and others of us?I think we have barely scratched the surface,but that we are uniquely situated,post restoration and liberation,to find some of the best solutions to these troubling and crippling false traditions.I’m so hoping we can do some more exploring together,and hope to post further.
I’d love our marriages to be known for their intimacy and kindness.In closing,DH and i have found the work of Alex Alman really useful,he uses intimacy as a metaphor.You can find an introduction on youtube and it is quite safe and very kind.We plan on exploring more as I recover.I’m hoping to hit the ground running.
Comment by handle with care — December 4, 2008 @ 2:00 pm
Steve - I’ve no idea what to suggest, but my heart goes out to you. Too often we’re taught at church that sex is about procreation. And it is, but that’s not its only function. It’s there to unite a husband and wife. It’s there for a couple to have fun with each other. Sexual intimacy is an important part of relationship - whether the aim is to have children or not.
Comment by Rebecca — December 4, 2008 @ 2:06 pm
Quick answer to the question. Of coarse it is…It is created by God. ~Handle with care…..Hang in there.~ I agree with this community, as a majority. But I must add. First, ask yourselves the question~ Are orgasms created by God? (Hint-YES) Steve, hear this.
I might have had similar feelings as your wife at one point, but never took it to the degree she has. Meaning Sex was very UNfulfilling. Remember that Males have an orgasmic rate of 100%, women have not even orgasm 5% of the time. Does not matter if one sees this to be fair or not- Women may feel that they serve there husbands enough and have no deisre to serve them in the bedroom just to see them satisfied and they feel empty, night after night.
Steve, when I address you, it is meant for all the Steves out there. I am sure you want to see your wife satisfied, I know that it would also bring you much joy. When my husband introduced a nice discreat vibrator into the marriage, because he wanted to help and I needed help, all has changed my friends…….. I have talked to alot of LDS women who gasped at the idea of a vibe. Honestly, do you think that the Lord would say to me, “I’m sorry Strong 5, that I made it so difficult for you, you are just going to have to wait til your exalted”. Sex is to unite husband and wife. After your years of family bearing all gone, in comes the years of intimacy and fun. If you are not having fun ladies, for Pete’s Sake, go take of it. Get a Vibe!!!!!! It is your responsible to take care of your needs. Do not leave it ALL up to your spouse to take care of your sexual needs. Listen women, and I’ll leave you with this thought…… If for one night (every night if you wanted) you completely thought of yourself, you’ve have it. Your not going to think about his needs at all, just yours. You get on your sexy stuff and smell good stuff, all of it. And you go for it- Would your husband be satisfied? Would he say “Hey what about me?” Food for thought-
Comment by strong5 — December 8, 2008 @ 10:54 am
Actually, most statistics say that men orgasm about 75-80% of the time. (Men can fake orgasm, too, especially with condoms.) Women orgasm 20-30% of the time. (That’s with penetrative sex.) There’s a still a huge disparity there, but your numbers of 100% for men and 5% for women are off. Some men really struggle with orgasm - prostate surgery and antidepressants are just two factors that can impede pleasure for men.
Comment by Chandelle — December 8, 2008 @ 11:12 am
Thank you Chandelle- If you numbers are correct, that’s still pathedic for the women. Let’s make that 100% for us….Why, because it’s possible….And if you saying “I can’t”, let’s try.
Comment by strong5 — December 8, 2008 @ 3:06 pm
Steve,
If she truly understands (meaning you’ve opened up to her and spilled your guts to her about how you feel, without reservation) and she continues to maintain that she has no interest in fixing the problem (making it exclusively YOUR problem), and refuses counseling, I say secure your assets and find a good lawyer. As a farrier once said to me, “there’s too many good horses out there to go wasting time with a bad one!”. Seriously, if it’s bad enough to entertain the D-word, generally sooner is better. Good luck.
Comment by Been There Done That — December 8, 2008 @ 3:42 pm
I agree with you there, strong5. I think one important way of ensuring more orgasms for women is to get over the idea that the “proper” or even only way to have one is through penetrative sex. With oral sex, instruments or manual stimulation, orgasm rates go way up for women.
Comment by Chandelle — December 8, 2008 @ 3:55 pm
Steve,
I wish that I would have seen your comment earlier. Hopefully you have read mine and can see that you aren’t the only frustrated person out there. However, my issues are significantly less severe, I admit that.
Anyway, I really hope things work out for you. It’s sad when something that can be so enjoyable and draw a couple closer together is either ignored (your wife’s case) or treated with strict/stifling guidlines (my wife’s case).
I have hope that there is a right answer out there for both of these situations, but we will both probably only find the answer through a frank talk with our spouses. Good luck to you.
Comment by Unhappy with my Intimacy, PLEASE HELP — December 12, 2008 @ 3:11 am
Heck, yes! Isn’t this Church all about the mystical oneness, etc.? I could just be engaged and horny
, but I don’t see any great value or righteousness in vanilla sex if you’re craving something more. I think it is a cultural (both American and Mormon) mis-assumption that men will always be the ones who crave sensual experiences more . . . in my not-yet-sexual but physical relationships, I have much more often been the initiator, and I see no reason why this should be considered either anomalous or bad. So if you want more, or different, experiences, have the moxie to do so!
Yin and yang in what sense? Lust/love? Male/female approaches? But yes, I would say that married couples should not feel ashamed being naked with each other; that it should be a positive, natural experience. I am not sure what effect wearing garments would have on that; maybe try “confronting” it with unclothed cuddles? I don’t know from personal experience . . . just postulation, but it makes sense on a common sense level. There’s a difference between modesty and unhealthy desire-stifling.
Well, if you’re using “intimacy” as a euphemism for “sex,” I would say “yes.” It’s a way to ultimately share yourself with someone, to open those gates of communication. In fact, that would be a lot of the reason in my mind why one SHOULD wait (and one of the only things keeping me from it-lol); because when you’ve committed to one person, you’re telling them that you put in them your trust. Having sex is a face-threatening (in the sense of losing/saving face) experience, by all accounts: so what could bring you closer than needing to confront the embarrassment, the awkwardness, the unknowns of it all? If you mean “intimacy” in its sense of “communion, closeness,” my answer is still “yes;” in fact, I would say that’s why we came to this earth.
(PS–rhetorical question . . . I don’t need to know; but from all my research, many of the “no-nos” of earlier eras; i.e., when you were newlyweds, don’t apply today, so my personal opinion is that you can throw those out the window, and that you should be frankly discussing all this with your husband anyway.)
Comment by Portia — March 24, 2009 @ 2:19 am
PS- @#26 . . .. Wordpress interpreted “org@sm” as an email address. How kinky! Lolz.
Comment by Portia — March 24, 2009 @ 2:51 am
Steve: The Church counsels that we should only divorce for infidelity and or abuse. This is both.
We each have a right to sexual fulfillment. I think that it is crap for a spouse to withhold sex from the other. You have made a commitment to your wife to only be sexually active with her. For her to withhold that from you and then expect you to be faithful to her is in my opinion being unfaithful. 8 YEARS? Anyone who expects their spouse to be faithful while withholding sex is a fool.
This is also abuse. Your only source of sexual release is with your wife. The Church tells you that you cannot even masturbate. You say that you do not want to essentially rock the boat because you have 4 kids with her. Yet, she also has 4 kids with YOU. She does not seem to care about rocking the boat and jeopardizing your marriage and her kids’ family.
I filed to divorce my wife a year ago (still going through it). If you are going to go that route, file and hit her hard would be my advice. If I could do it over I would have her served with myself being named conservator of the children, myself remaining in the home….get her out. She will be more willing to negotiate that way instead of dragging it out. Get a very good attorney and go for custody. She is abusing you and will eventually abuse your kids as well.
Some people in The Church will judge you for filing if you do. Let them. They are not living your life, you are. What are you teaching your kids about marriage when you sleep in a different room?
Comment by yo — June 7, 2009 @ 2:10 pm
While I sympathize with your plight, yo, this is scary. My dad did this to my mom (hit her upside the head with divorce papers and got her kicked out for a summer while she fought back. She eventually regained custody, and he took off for 10 years). I think it is a stretch to assume that that a woman who withholds sex is going to “eventually abuse her children”. Honestly, this sounds selfish and like you are thinking more about yourself than your children.
Comment by Stephanie — June 7, 2009 @ 6:06 pm
I agree with Stephanie on this one - withholding sex does not mean she’s going to abuse the kids. That’s a fairly ginormous leap.
But honestly I’ve got no problem with divorcing someone because of a lack of sex. I just really hope, Steve, that you’d be a bigger person than to take it out on the kids; they need their mom as much as they need their dad. Her lack of a sex drive is not enough of a reason to assume she’s a crappy mom who should have nothing to do with her kids.
Comment by Quimby — June 7, 2009 @ 8:30 pm
yo-
I was thinking in an objective way that I don’t know how much I’d want to have sex with someone who would ruthlessly use his own children to punish me. This is an issue between you and your wife…while I can appreciate your distress and even your feelings of neglect over being rejected on a sexual level, I can’t help but notice a mean streak. It may have something to do with why she stopped getting naked with you.
A good conservator of the children would take into account that their relationship with their mother is as sacred as yours is with them. As their father, their trust and loving relationship with their mother is as much your concern as ever, even divorced. I am sorry for what you are going through (I’m divorced and even my adulterous ex never behaved the way you are advocating), but I hope you can get past your anger and get back to the business of being a good father.
Comment by Kimberly — June 8, 2009 @ 7:45 am
Wow,this one has turned into a slow burner.Kimberly,your comment is such a useful correction to our natural man and justice based views of the world,it’s really a call to a higher way in real and practical terms.I can’t tell you how much so many of us need such specific counsel.Often in the church those that know how to do this stuff assume that others do too,and we so don’t.Please keep it coming.I guess it’s the difference between a celestial and terrestrial view of family life.So many of us are still struggling with the terrestrial.
Comment by wayfarer — June 8, 2009 @ 8:48 am
Okay… this is my first post ever on here, but I’m hoping I might be able to get some advice/suggestions. My wife and I have been married for almost 6 years and I am more in love with her now than ever. We have 3 small children and just laugh and have a lot of fun as a family. Anyway, everything in our marriage/family life is wonderful… but our sex life is lacking. We’re both approaching 30, so we’re still young, and though I’M not the most impressive specimen to look at, SHE is HOT!!! When we first married we had sex a lot, and it was fun and exciting and BOTH of us shared in initiating things. However, I don’t think she has EVER really had an orgasm, and I think that’s one of the main contributers to why she just doesn’t ever want to have sex anymore. I can’t say that I blame her — why would you want to do something that you just didn’t enjoy? I feel like a failure. I want SO much to please her and to show her how amazing it feels — She doesn’t seem to “get” why I enjoy it so much, and I KNOW that if I could just help her reach orgasm that she’d “get it”! She won’t let me go down on her and is very uncomfortable with oral sex on me as well, so we don’t do it. She used to let me use my hands and fingers, and seemed to really like that, but even THAT has all but disappeared. The thing is, I honestly think I could orgasm myself just knowing that she was REALLY enjoying what I was doing to her… that turns me on more than anything — just the thought of HER feeling pleasure! Now she never initiates anything, and more often than not, when I try it doesn’t go anywhere. I know I probably sound selfish, but I really DO want to have sex with her a LOT, but I want HER to want it too… and I don’t think she ever will if I can’t satisfy her and help her reach orgasm. It’s really frustrating. Any help?…
Comment by FeelLikeAFailure — June 15, 2009 @ 12:45 pm
Yeah,
talk to her. see if you can get her to open up about what her needs are. Is she on any medication that could be effecting her sex drive? Explain to her that you want to be there for her sexual needs. Don’t make it about you, make it about her and you together as a couple.
As far as uncomfortable w/ oral. You should read “And they were not ashamed” by Laura Brotherson; you can find it at deseret book. And read it together.
Or you could send her over to vixen-goodinbed.blogspot.com; a sex advice site run by LDS ladies. There is a lot of good advice from a variety of posters/commenters.
If she sees that there are other women who have gone through what she is feeling she might be more willing explore her needs and desires.
good luck.
Comment by baldinreliefsociety — June 15, 2009 @ 2:12 pm
FeelLikeAFailure, you’ve been married not even 6 years and have 3 kids. I imagine she is EXHAUSTED and has kids climbing all over her all day. I imagine her hormones are immensely wacked out. Don’t take it personally and don’t try to blame it on something like “she just doesn’t want to”. I can’t even describe what having that many kids in that short of time (and continuing to do it) does to your body. Cut her (and yourself) some slack.
In 131 months of marriage, I’ve been pregnant for 43 months, nursing (with raging hormones) for 53 months, and on birth control pills that screwed with my sex drive for 23 months. That leaves a grand total of 12 months in nearly 11 years of marriage that I approached “normal” (the extra year when we spaced kids 3 years apart instead of 2). For me and my husband, that means that 119 months have been spent with mediocre sex and about a year when it was spectacular, and I discovered all sorts of sensual pleasure that is possible when your hormones aren’t messed with.
Anyways, sex is a big reason while this baby is likely our last. My husband is a patient, sweet man, but I’m a little tired of it not being “spectacular”, too.
My advice is to be patient and use some other form of birth control that is not hormonal and see what happens when your wife is “normal”.
Comment by Stephanie — June 15, 2009 @ 2:28 pm
Thanks, Stephanie and baldinreliefsociety — both of your comments were very helpful. I hadn’t thought about it that way… that she’s had to deal with 27 months of pregnancy (with the MAJORITY of those months being just plain miserable) and around 23 ADDITIONAL months (so far) breast feeding — That amounts to 50 months of either being pregnant or breastfeeding… over 4 YEARS!!! Wow. I’m beginning to feel like a shmuck, and I’m seeing much more clearly the sacrifice she’s made and continues to make for our family. She IS on hormonal birth control as well. Although it’s hard to believe, I think that even I would be a little less than “in the mood” if I were in her shoes. I really love her very, very much, and need to do a better job showing her that. You’re both right — I need to be more patient and not take it personally. She is an amazing woman and I am the luckiest man on earth to have her! Thank you both for your comments and for helping me put things in a little bit clearer perspective.
Suddenly in awe,
Comment by FeelLikeAFailure — June 16, 2009 @ 3:24 pm
Good luck, FeelLikeAFailure (and change your name
) I knew we were onto something when I was trying to figure out how to approach my husband about me going off birth control pills (we both dislike the alternative), and he called me and said, “I think you should go off the pills”. Maybe you guys should talk about it. But, overall, hang in there. 
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Comment by christina erickson — February 13, 2010 @ 5:42 am
I didn’t read all the blogs but I read the original and many more of them.
I don’t think you should leave your husband. I do think you should try to work it out though.
SEX is very important to me. I love sex and I love making love to my husband. I think it is very very important to work it out especially if one of you have a desire and need to be more inntimate, or passionate or sexual ! It shouldn’t be ignored. It is healthy to deal with and satisfy your needs (with your partner only). I do not agree with anyone who suggests that any sort of perversions or depravity as the solution. It is normal to have these “bad” solutions pop onto our minds stage but we shouldn’t entertain them. There are tons and tons of ways to have very “naughty” morally clean sex!!!!!!!!!! I am horney most of the time it is a curse that I think I was born with. I am not saying that anyone should forget self disipline either! Being disiplined will only make it more satisfing! especially in the long run. This is a gift God gave us and our partner is part of that gift. If we don’t work it out with our partner then we are asking for trouble because once you take it out of marriage then we are abusing that gift and nothing good will come of it!!!! Another important thing that needs to be considered is female orgasm. Many men do noe have a clue of how to make this happen and media and history only makes this worse. Women often times don’t even know that they are normal and are scared to talk about and explore this. Females are complicated, We have way more sexual parts than men!!!! Men are simple, they have a penis and their senses that stimulate that organ. Women on the other hand have complex emotions, a huge stigma to overcome from years of ignorance. Instead of one easy to figure out sexual organ we have nipples, a vagina, hips and butt and all other sensitive spots on our bodies,and our main organ the CLITORUS. We are definately complicated. We need Love, passion and orgasms. Not having any of these can make married life difficult!!! God wants us to work this out with our husbands, and visa versa. Pray and ask him for help with whatever part it is that you struggle with. We are so blessed to have this gift and working towards its perfection is just as important to our completeness as any other part of life. The journey is part of the lesson too so don’t give up!!!!
Comment by Angie — July 18, 2010 @ 12:32 pm
This is a touchy issue for me… and also very intriguing. I am 30 years old and I think I’m still pretty “hot” even after having two kids. However, it’s been a LONG time since I’ve felt that my DH has seen me as any type of “object of desire”. And that sucks. We used to have a GREAT sex life, but for the past couple of years he not only doesn’t show interest, he almost seems disgusted at the thought of having sex with me. Our marriage has been struggling for a while now and we don’t really talk too much anymore. Anyway… this is the hard part to talk about… a couple months ago I found out he had had an affair. He said it was over as soon as it began, but the thought of him moaning in some woman’s, caressing her body, and WANTING her to touch him, while I couldn’t get him to touch me or even convince him to let me touch HIM… well, that was a devastating blow. I felt betrayed (obviously), but I also felt terribly UNattractive, UNdesirable, Unsexy, and DYING to feel wanted. So I “met” a nice guy in a chatroom (I KNOW… I’m not proud of this), and though HE was hesitant, we eventually started talking about sex and stuff. I found myself SO arroused talking to this complete stranger I almost couldn’t HANDLE it. He asked me what I looked like, and I said “nothing special”. He said he didn’t believe me, and wanted to see a picture of me (TOTALLY non-sexual) — so I sent him one. Of me. Right after I got out of the shower. I was covering my breasts, and had a towel around my waist, but it WAS quite revealing. I couldn’t believe I sent it… but it was also SO liberating and made me feel sexy again! Over the next few weeks we exchanged photos (not exactly PG13… or even R-rated) and chats, and I LOVED knowing that he was seeing my body and WANTING to see it. I KNOW this is wrong, but is it wrong to want to feel sexy and desirable? I actually LOOK FORWARD to hearing him respond to the latest sexy pic I send him… please help… I don’t know what to do. I feel guilty, but sooo turned on for the first time in a LONG time.
-Closet exhibitionist
Comment by Closet Exhibitionist... — July 26, 2010 @ 1:46 pm
Closet exhibitionist- I am so very sorry for your pain and the events that led you to this end…especially the pain associated with your dh’s lack of sexual interest. My ex had an affair and I know what a terrible blow that is on so many levels. You are going to do whatever it is you have to do- I know that. But…if you still love your husband, it’s time to put it all on the table- including this latest attempt to get your sexual needs met and stave off the loneliness. I’m not saying this judgmentally, I’ve been there. I’m saying that if you have any desire to rebuild your marriage, you are at a crucial point in making that decision. What you decide to do- move on, or give it another try, has to be done in honesty, or you will be ten times more hurt than you were from the start because the dishonesty will be doubled. If you go forward without your husband, do it with a clean conscience and a quiet heart- not because he deserves more decency than he gave, but because you will heal faster and with dignity.
Comment by Kimberly — July 26, 2010 @ 2:41 pm
I don’t have any desire to save my marriage… he has made it ABUNDANTLY clear that he doesn’t want to either. I tried for a while — before all this, I sent HIM “naughty” pics of me, or would sneak a naughty pollaroid into his lunch sack/briefcase etc. He didn’t like that. He told me never to send that to him again. He said, “Nobody wants to see that, and I certainly don’t EITHER!” He has since admitted to one other affair, but doesn’t seem to feel any remorse or shame or anything. He now knows about my latest “adventures” with taking pictures of myself — he doesn’t care. I had kind of secretly hoped that when he found out he’d be a bit jealous… SOMETHING to show he had ANY feelings for me. Nope. So what do I do. This makes me feel ALIVE, WANTED, SEXUALLY DESIRABLE… I know this is only fantasy and not real, and I would never ACTUALLY physically have sex with someone I wasn’t married to… but I certainly DO long for that feeling of passion, fire and desire, and having someone inside me — forgive me for being so blunt. I don’t mean to offend anyone. I just feel lost. I am a very sexual person, and I just don’t have that part of me being filled in ANY way! I wish I could snap my fingers and have DH magically come home so horny (for ME) that he couldn’t control himself and HAD to rip my clothes off as fast as he could to feel my body and just TAKE me. Sometimes while he’s asleep and I can tell he has an erection, I gently touch his “manhood” and just WISH he would wake up and be EXCITED rather than annoyed/disgusted. I hate this. I want to be wanted. I need to be needed.
Comment by Closet Exhibitionist... — July 26, 2010 @ 3:25 pm
I’m sorry, CE. It sounds like you do have to go your separate ways, then. I’m not at all offended by your bluntness. There’s nothing wrong at all with passion, especially within a marriage. I hope you will find what you are looking for, because we all need to be loved and needed, emotionally and physically,
Comment by Kimberly — July 26, 2010 @ 5:35 pm