Taking on the multigenerational kinship model
My mom just went back to Minnesota after visiting us. At this time of year, she’s always eager to get out of the frozen North and escape to a place where the sun shines when the temperature is above zero. So she drives three or four hours to the airport, then takes two airplanes to get here. Once she finally arrives, she feels the need to stay a while and make it worth the effort. This time she was here for two weeks. We had fun– we ran a half-marathon together, went on separate trips to the Hill Country, indulged in lots of chocolate, and celebrated as my six-year-old turned into a seven-year-old. We also spent a lot of time glued to the MLS listings for Salt Lake County, trying to find me a house. Several of the houses we’re looking at have mother-in-law apartments attached, and my mom seemed especially eager for me to consider those. “Dad and I could move in once he retires,” she said hopefully. “Uh huh,” I replied noncommittally as I scrolled to the next house on the list, wondering if it would be a fantastic idea or a terrible mistake.
I love my mom. I also love going to the bathroom with the door open, walking around the house in my underwear, disagreeing with my husband without an audience, allowing my kids to forage for food instead of making balanced meals and spending the day parked at the computer, all things I don’t do when she’s around. We haven’t lived near any of our family since the first year we were married, so the idea of living in the same state as relatives, let alone the same house, would be an adjustment (and will be an adjustment when we move back to Utah this summer). My sister-in-law lives around the corner from her mom, and they’re joined at the hip– calling each other several times a day, watching each others’ pets and watering each others’ lawns when one of them leaves town. It also means that my mother-in-law sees my niece and nephew a lot more than she sees my kids, so she both knows them better and feels more inclined to give her opinion about things that go on in their lives. Watching them over the last decade, I see both the benefits (and there are many) and the drawbacks (not nearly as many, but probably irritating nonetheless) of living as part of an extended family group.
It wasn’t so long ago that extended families lived together regularly, but over the last fifty years or so, it feels (and I could totally be wrong on this) that families have both moved further apart and grown to value more nuclear family privacy. When my brother, for instance, talks about “his family” he means his wife and kids, not his extended family. On the other hand, my sixty-year-old dad grew up in a house where both of his parents worked and his grandparents watched the kids by day and were, in turn, cared for by his parents. After those grandparents died, my grandma took in her wheelchair-bound grandmother, converted the dining room into a bedroom, and took care of her until she died at the age of 101. And these days, the practice seems to be coming popular again– after all, even the Obamas are doing it.
I was born when my mom and dad were 23 and 26, so the possibility of taking care of elderly parents has always seemed to be something in the distant future; but over the last few years, I’ve noticed a shift in the dynamic between me and my mom. She’s more willing to let me make arrangements for trips and outings, to have me check to see if the restaurant that looks closed is, in fact, done serving dessert, to let me drive when we get in the car together, to get vaguely irritated with me when I don’t call to check in on her. Now that I’m a thirty-something adult and a mom, she seems fairly content to have me assume some of the mom role. I wonder if it’s my first step along the path to becoming the ham and cheese in the sandwich generation equation.
So as I go house hunting, I wonder if we really should look for a house with a mother-in-law apartment, not for now, but for the future. Of course, allowing my mom to move in would be conditional on breaking her three-hour-a-day gym habit, but I guess that if she’s still able to spend three hours at the gym, she probably wouldn’t need to live with us. For those of you who have experienced the sandwiching of the sandwich generation, how does it play out at your house? Do you think taking in extended family functions differently within Mormon culture than outside of it?
I have always purchased homes without guest rooms for this very reason. I have not lived near my parents for over 25 years. I just couldn’t hack it. If you do get one with an apartment, I would say to opt for one where the apartment has a completely separate entrance and then block of any interior thru access.
Comment by StillConfused — February 20, 2009 @ 5:52 pm
We have considered putting up a “granny flat” in our backyard - not attached in any way to the house, but a completely seperate building, with all of its own facilities. We think it’d be beneficial for a number of reasons - the extra space would be nice; it’d be great when my parents come since they come for a few weeks at a time and this would give them their own space, the kids could use it as a cubby house when they’re little and a retreat when they’re older. The one thing that is keeping us from doing it, actually, is the thought that DH”s granny would move in in a heartbeat if she knew we had it! (She wouldn’t exactly ask.)
As long as it was its own building, and as long as the parents were in relatively good health, I would be okay with living that close to my parents or in-laws. DH and I joke that if his mother ever needs a place to go, we’ll put up a granny flat for her; if his father ever needs a place to go, we’ll put a bed in the shed - he’d be more comfortable there anyway. I actually told FIL this the last time we saw him. I said, “We’d get power put out there for you.” He laughed and said, “Just run an extension lead from the house and she’ll be right.”
Comment by Quimby — February 20, 2009 @ 6:01 pm
I love my mother. At her house.
If she lived with me it would be a coin toss to see who killed the other one first. We are both very passive-aggressive so I don’t think it would work. I’ll be the unselfish one and let my sister have her.
Did I say that I love my mother?
Comment by Numi — February 20, 2009 @ 6:15 pm
i think a MIL space would be awesome. You could rent it out for a little spare income if needed (or you wanted to take pity on some poor student), or use it as a guest space, or eventually if family circumstances necessitated, have family live in it. I agree boundaries are vital for situations like this to work. and in some cases (eg: mine) it would NEVER work
Comment by blue — February 20, 2009 @ 6:21 pm
You have to also consider that a MIL apartment often ends up being an “anything in law” apartment. My parents have one and both my sister and I lived there when we were newlyweds. It was a generous offer on my parent’s part while we saving our money. But it also meant a loss of some privacy. There’s always pros and cons to living that close to family, even if it’s “separate”. My parents did buy that house specifically because of that apartment, though, and my housebound grandma lived there with us for several years.
I am totally rambling now…
Comment by B — February 20, 2009 @ 6:48 pm
I think having options is a good thing. While we can’t rent our space, we have used our basement for three different family members for extended periods of time, and it has been a blessing. I don’t imagine it would work for elderly parents (stairs are a factor to consider, even with MIL apts), but we have really been grateful to have the space to have the option to let family come stay, short- or long-term, when needed. And it *is* another potential source of income (although be sure you check codes and laws for your area if you do — our area is a stickler for specific reqs that can be burdensome.)
Given the fact that your mom might *expect* it, though, if you bought such a house, could be tricky and potentially sticky, imo. Might require some pretty open discussions about expectations, etc. I’d hate surprises in that regard, ya know?
I am not convinced that Mormon culture is any different…some people like the extended-family-living-close picture, some don’t. I think a lot depends on family dynamics and personality. Sounds simplistic, but living with parents who respect boundaries would be a lot different than living with parents who don’t. The latter situation could be really hard, even detrimental. Just depends, imo.
I see more of Mormon culture the other generational direction, though…with parents letting married kids stay with them, and that I’m not always so keen on just because I think there is something to be said for starting off a marriage with some distance to “leave father and mother” emotionally, financially, etc. But to each their own…sometimes it works just fine.
Comment by m&m — February 20, 2009 @ 6:51 pm
B- My parents found the same thing when they let my little sister live at their house the summer after she got married.
Comment by Shelah — February 20, 2009 @ 6:52 pm
My husband and I have been living with my parents for the last 2.5 years while my husband goes to law school. It’s saved us a lot of money, and it’s been nice for me to have people around to talk to while being a “law school widow.”
As graduation nears, we are certainly ready to move on, but the arrangement has worked out really well. We all get along quite well. It’s funny because our culture definitely seems to look down on this arrangement-and I make plenty of “I’m 28 and live with my parents” self-deprecating jokes, but I think it’s weird I should have to do so. As Shelah points out, and I like to point out to others, multi-generational living arrangements used to be quite common, and they still are around the world.
When we move, I’m going to be excited about our new privacy, but I will miss having other people around. Sometimes I stand back and think that making the isolated nuclear family the ideal is kind of strange.
Comment by Katie M — February 20, 2009 @ 7:15 pm
My in-laws live with us (MIL now deceased); we bought the house we did so that they could. I was scared at first of sharing space with them, but it has been an amazing blessing.
What makes it work for us is 1-clear boundaries, no sense of entitlement from either party. I don’t take the free babysitting I get for granted, they don’t take the living space for granted. There’s no manipulation, no guilt trips. 2-open communication when there is a problem. We have all decided not to get offended, and say what needs to be said in a kind way.
I can’t tell you how much I have loved having my kids know their grandparents so well.
Having said that, I know our situation would not work for everyone. It was something we felt right about after much thought and prayer.
Comment by Emily M. — February 20, 2009 @ 7:45 pm
I second what Emily M. (#9) said. My parents have lived with us (me, husband, 3 kids) for 6 years now. What makes our situation unique is that my parents are divorced! We have two MIL apartments so they each have their own place. We all have personalities that mesh well and we respect each others space.
It’s a good situation for us, especially since I have increasing problems with rheumatoid arthritis. It’s been great having help with childcare, laundry, driving, cooking, etc., when I need it. I love that my parents and children have a close relationship – something I did not have with any of my grandparents.
Also, as my folks are getting older, I like having them near to keep an eye on them. My mom had a stroke last year and my dad is getting a bit forgetful. It adds to their security as well to have my husband and I nearby.
I guess it’s a somewhat unusual situation but it works for us.
Comment by Tam — February 20, 2009 @ 8:30 pm
re: 9. How nice! It sounds as though you all have worked out a way to make it work beautifully. It’s so good for kids to grow up knowing that there are lots of grownups around who love and will look out for them, and it can be so convenient for the adults to have others who’ll drive them to the car repair, or ask if they need anything at the farmer’s market. My kids’ families live next door to each other and it’s worked out great for them. Separate lives, Sunday dinner together, and always there for each other.
I suppose it all depends on relationship and temperament of the individuals involved and the quality of communication between them.
Since I was ready to kill myself by the second day of any visit
from my Step-mom, and could barely keep a civil tongue between gritted teeth by the 4th day of her visits, there was no question of acceeding to her request to move in with us when she couldn’t live alone. I know it hurt her feelings, and I felt like such a bad daughter to say no but I could not bear the thought of it.
One thing to consider is how such a situation will wear over time. My mom was moving fairly rapidly into senile dementia at the time she needed new housing. It seemed to exacerbate every difficult trait she had ever displayed, not to mention making her unreliable to leave unsupervised. I think that there can be a big difference between middle aged parents and ancient parents. If finances permit, I think that long term care insurance is a very good thing. It can take away the worry of getting more than you thought you’d signed up for.
Comment by Betty Jo — February 20, 2009 @ 8:58 pm
This is very timely for me. We are currently saving to buy a house this summer or next and are looking for one with a mother-in-law apartment or property with space to build one. My mom informed us that when she retires next year (she’s divorced) she plans on moving near Dh and I. Dh and I are very independent so it makes us nervous. But we understand why she chose us over my siblings and she has a sweet, easy-going personality so hopefully it will be okay. We know it will be an adjustment. She doesn’t mind living in an apartment near us at first but I know that one day she will need to be closer than that so we are planning ahead. She does not want to live in our house until she has to. She has lived as a single woman for many years, so she likes her space too. We envision her using us as a home base while she travels to visit relatives and serve missions. I don’t like to think about what it will be like in 10-20 years when she’s more frail. I never envisioned raising my kids with my mom so close but I need to accept my new reality. I love my mom and would do anything to help her. She’s had a bum life and deserves to be taken care of.
Comment by Fairchild — February 20, 2009 @ 9:16 pm
I don’t know. Think it depends on your relationship. I live a few blocks away from my mom, and it works because we have our own lives and she respects our own family time. Doesn’t put any pressure on me to call or come over, etc, and doesn’t mind babysitting occasionally (as long as we don’t take advantage). And none of us get offended easily.
My husband’s family?….let’s just say I need them in another city. Constantly offended, constantly upset if they feel we didn’t give them enough time, etc. No flippin way.
Comment by Amy S. — February 20, 2009 @ 9:18 pm
i agree with 13, it totally depends. we live two miles away from my parents and it’s not close enough. we live two miles away from my mother-in-law and we’re not far enough away. my husband, parents, and i all agree that our ideal situation would be two houses next-door to one another. we actually almost bought the house next to them and had plans to knock down part of the back fence to combine our yards, but it fell through due to my husband’s job relocation.
anyhow, i think there’s a lot to be said for multigenerational homes. after we had kids, we spent three years 3000 miles away from family and two years 200 miles away. it’s heaven to be so close now. my mom comes and takes care of me when i have a baby, my husband mows their lawn when my dad’s back is out. my husband and dad take the kids fishing, my mom and i do batch cooking. we did live under one roof for six months and that was a bit too close, but mostly because we didn’t have our own space and there was a bit of an alpha female battle. if we did that again, we all agree we’d need separate wings of the same house, but we’d rather do that than live 3000 miles apart again.
i grew up without grandparents or any other family around other than my mom’s sister. i wanted more than that for my kids and it’s been more wonderful than i had imagined. i love the bond they have with my parents and don’t think we’ll ever live further apart than we do now.
Comment by makakona — February 20, 2009 @ 11:42 pm
“Mormon culture”?? which Mormon culture? White American? Japanese? Chinese? any of the various countries in Europe or Africa??
Comment by mobile-s — February 20, 2009 @ 11:42 pm
Three hour gym workouts?! Holy Moly
Comment by AuntieJo — February 21, 2009 @ 12:33 am
In my experience, the Mormon part of things doesn’t really play into - but the culture (racial, ethnic culture) does. We’ve had several different members of our extended family come to live with us for various reasons, and I was always kind of shocked by the reactions of ward members in the US - praising us for taking on such a terrible burden. My husband I would always look at each other, thinking “Huh? This is our family!” Yes, it can be hard at times, but to us, it’s just part of being a sister, brother, uncle or aunt.
I actually yearn for the days families lived that way…I hope we can have our parents live with us some day. But we also have parents who are extraordinarily helpful and excellent about not interfering, and were both raised in cultures where family relationships are generally closer than what I’ve seen in mainstream America. (i.e. cousins are like brothers and sisters, any relation, however distant, is family, children of cousins are nieces and nephews, grandma’s sisters are also your grandmas, etc.) I could see how the situation would be much harder if your parents were difficult or if it was just an abnormal idea to have parents living with you as adults.
I am a convert, and some part of me “expected” American members to have more “multi-generational” family relations than mainstream America - but in my experience, that isn’t the case. The experience I have with members outside of America are all part of cultures that, LDS or not, typically have very close extended family relations. I honestly haven’t seen the Mormon aspect play a factor in it. Not yet anyway.
This is not to say I haven’t seen very close Mormon American families - I have. I’ve also seen situations where there is that multi-generational living arrangement - but it is usually viewed as less than ideal or the only remaining option, not as something people strive towards.
Comment by Asha — February 21, 2009 @ 1:40 am
i prefer to live far far away from my family. although, currently, i am living with my parents. i have done it once before, and while that time it was pretty much the only option for me, i chose it this time. i am also much much smarter this time around than i was before.
i chose this for right now because we will never live close to family. ever. and this would be the only time we could. i wanted my kids to have a relationship with our extended family. my problem is that a lot of them seem to expect me to make the effort for them to get to know my kids. as in they won’t come to the house we’re living in. and we just drove over 2500 miles to be within ten minutes of them.
i will never ever have my husbands parents live with us, or near us. ever. my parents would be more tolerable, but my mother can be very very difficult.
while my kids are loving spending so much time with their grandparents on both sides (kind of) i cannot wait until my husband is done with his training and we can leave and be on our own again.
Comment by Terina — February 21, 2009 @ 2:03 am
Exactly. We are on the threshold of this right now. Mom is ill, but I am traveling 1 1/4 hours to get to her home- taking her to appointments and cleaning their house. I had to use every means at my disposal to get my parents to agree to that- they are very, very proud. But, they have also always been very clean people and the building up of the dust was distressing everyone. So, I clean and do the yard work for two houses now. The day will come when she has to come to our home. She’s very quiet and undemanding- I know it’s going to rankle having to depend upon me, she already struggles over receiving the help I give her. I would take care of my dad or my step-dad too…even though my stepfather is impossible, he’s never pretended to be anything else. He’s not manipulative or demanding- which are deal breakers for me.
I’d take my FIL in also but never, ever my MIL. She is the bane of my dh’s existence and although I deal with her just fine- I never let her get away with her nonsense- my dh would rather jump off a bridge than have her in the same house. He has trouble visiting her for a few hours. There’s just too much baggage and she is one of those Catch-22 people where there is no pleasing her. She also stirs up alot of trouble between the siblings. So, I’m very dutiful about taking care of relatives, and would never shirk making sure they get good care, living in my own home would be something I would carefully consider. At least I know how to find a good nursing home.
Comment by Kimberly — February 21, 2009 @ 9:48 am
I am currently enjoying living far away from my family. We used to joke about a family compound where everyone would serve a purpose and have separate quarters but get to hang out when we wanted to. But time and space does make the heart grow fonder.
3 hour gym workouts? Wouldn’t that be 3 hours to hang out by yourself, alone?
Comment by LCM — February 21, 2009 @ 10:26 am
LCM– not when she wants to use my car to get there. Either I go too, or end up ferrying back and forth to opposite sides of town so I can get her to the gym and get my kids to school. Or she gets up at 5am to go, and then she’s exhausted for the rest of the day. I hear what you’re all saying about boundaries. And I don’t think we have ever had them, but if we lived near each other, I guess we would need them.
Comment by Shelah — February 21, 2009 @ 10:43 am
M&M suggests “pretty open discussions about expectations” prior to having parents move in. A great idea, especially for families who are used to having “open discussions.” (My family never had one, ever, as far as I can remember.) And the reality is that while any of us (now or as we age) might agree to abide by expectations, the em>habits
Comment by Crone — February 21, 2009 @ 11:27 am
Sorry–the last half of my comment disappeared–have no idea why.
As I was saying–the habits of a lifetime don’t change because we agree to change them. It might be quite impossible for your mother to stop criticizing your housekeeping or for your dad to do anything but walk in without knocking.
A year or two after my father was widowed, he mentioned to me that another widowed he knew was moving in with his daughter.
“Gee, I would hate to do that! ” Dad said. And then came the real message: “Oh, sure, if it was an emergency–.” I said nothing. A little later, he brought the subject up again: “I think Frank is nuts to move in with his kid! Oh, I mean, yeah, if there’s an emergency. . . . ” I said nothing.
I had an older married brother who lived fairly close to Dad, and another married brother whose wife loved Dad and got on well with him. Both of them earned lots more than I did. But because I was the daughter, and single, I guess I seemed the obvious choice to Dad, even though logically either brother would have been a better choice.
My silence has haunted me in the years since. Dad died at home, in his sleep, after seven years alone and lonely. He never moved to an assisted living place or in with any of us; he never even required hospitalization. But I wish I had said something reassuring–not a promise, not even an agreement, but just something to suggest that we would rally around him if cruel need arose.
Comment by Crone — February 21, 2009 @ 11:39 am
My Mister and I lived with my parents for one summer early in our marriage. They were really good to give us our space.
We recently lived with them for 4 months while our new house was being finished. I loved it.
My dream house includes space for my parents to come live with us should they ever want/need to.
Comment by Alliegator — February 21, 2009 @ 4:32 pm
Last summer as a new mom I visited my parents while DH stayed home
(2500 miles away). I did all the same childcare things I normally do with the exception of a lunch with my siblings while my mom babysat. It was a fairly low key visit so the day to day routine was close to what it normally was - but so much better! Simply having another adult or two to interact with made the day fly by. It made me wonder if (with the right personality combination) a lot of the new mommy angst could be cured/reduced with multi-generational living.
Comment by Sweet Em — February 21, 2009 @ 6:32 pm
My maternal grandmother lived in a granny flat downstairs when I was a kid, and for several years her dementia suffering mother lived there as well. It was a valuable experience for my siblings and I, learning how to get along with the elderly and understanding aged care, etc. It was also very stressful and difficult for my parents and my grandma.
I don’t think it’s really a ‘Mormon’ issue as much as a society wide trend. Families used to function as a more central unit. As generations go on and the world seems to get smaller, we’re more spread out and get used to our space and all the distance. I think taking in family was always difficult, but once upon a time that was just the way things were done. Lifestyle changes mean people are less comfortable giving up their space and independence to accept extended family into their homes or care. That’s not a bad thing either… I couldn’t cope with my mother-in-law living with us or in a granny flat in our backyard.
It’s certainly becoming an issue in Australia (where I live). We have an aging population, and there are only so many nursing homes and professional carers to go around. Add the economic difficulties of recent years and people are having to rely on family just to survive. We’ve become very used to not dealing with each other in close quarters, so that’s got to be hard for a lot of people.
Comment by Rossie — February 21, 2009 @ 6:49 pm
the kinship model is still alive and well in most of the world. I see it returning more here, mainly due ot the financial necessity- with a good assited living cneter costin gbaout 4 grand a month, the old fashioned way is the only viable option. But the more complex issues are these relationships- how we evolve and renegotiate as parent and child.
I do plan to have a guest house for my parents when they get older. so I’d say yes to the suite but put under 15 yr lock down.
Comment by smartmama — February 21, 2009 @ 7:34 pm
This subject terrifies me. My FMIL has done NO retirement preparation, and has lived on a house on her parents’ property in a very depressed area for the past 15 years or so. She keeps hinting that when her (elderly and incredibly unhealthy) parents die, she wants to move out here. She can’t afford the cost of living here, so she’s going to expect to stay with us.
Comment by Moonbeam — February 21, 2009 @ 8:29 pm
This is a great subject, and one that I’ve given a lot of thought to, mostly because various multi-generational housing arrangements have happened in our families in the last several years. My husband’s sister and her family moved in with my in-laws a few years ago after her husband graduated and was looking for a job, and then a house. I think they all struggled with it a little bit, but I think it was a good thing overall. On the other hand, I made it clear to my husband that if we ever needed to live with parents, we would be living with _my_ parents, even if their house was smaller.
Both of my grandma’s live with one of their daughters currently. My father’s mom, who has all her faculties but is somewhat frail and can no longer drive, has her own apartment in the basement of my aunt’s house. The arrangement has worked out beautifully. She still has her own space to have people over, etc, but she also has people right there if something happens (like when she passed out on the bathroom floor one time).
My mother’s mom, who has some dementia, just has her own room in my aunt’s house. It took a while to convince her to move in, but she really needed to. She’s very kind and generally agreeable, so it works out ok. She and my aunt actually do just fine, but my a couple of my aunt’s grown daughters also live at home, and I think the three generations of adults is harder than 2.
My husband and I have discussed what we would do if our parents needed to live with someone at some point. My parents would be welcome to move in with us, though if my mom was still fairly capable it would be much preferable for them to have a separate apartment than just a room/bathroom (I don’t think it would make much difference with/to my dad). My father-in-law is also (conditionally) welcome to move in with us. I’m not sure it would be the best course of action, but I think it would work out ok. Things would have to be pretty dire for me to agree to my mother-in-law moving in with us, her own apartment or not. I love her dearly, and she’s a wonderful grandmother, but our personalities don’t mesh very well, and I have a harder time loving her in extended close proximity. I would much rather pay for the addition to the house of one of my sisters-in-law so that she could move in with them (and I think any of them would be okay with her living with them).
Comment by Vada — February 21, 2009 @ 10:50 pm
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Pingback by The family that blogs together, well, um, fights… | The Red Brick Store — March 2, 2009 @ 7:02 am
There was a time in my life when I was the first to say that I loved my family, and wanted to keep it that way, consequently it was best to keep a good distance between us.
But as I’ve gotten older, I’ve gained a greater appreciation of extended family. When my children were young, I found myself as a single mother. The choice was made to move in with my parents in order to provide my kids with an example of a marriage that actually works, and to give them more stability. I couldn’t imagine a greater blessing for my children than that extra time with their grandparents. And having more adults in the house meant there was always someone to give them some one-on-one attention, or to lend a empathetic ear when they were upset with one of the other adults in the house. It also gave my parents and I an opportunity to develop a much stronger relationship with me being in an adult role.
I’ve since remarried. My husband’s grandmother lives with his parents. We’ve had the opportunity to stay at their home for short periods of time. Of course most the family members have heard her stories already, but as a new in-law, I LOVE this time to hear about her life, and learn from her experiences.
Sometimes it is hard to have to share so much of your space and to sacrifice a piece of your independence (no matter who moves in with who, there’s still some of your “own time” gone) but you also have someone to share the household chores with, someone else to keep you company, and someone else to infinitely increase the love that’s felt in your home.
I’m not sure how it differs in a mormon home vs not, other than if we are able to keep that eternal perspective, it helps us through the frustrating times.
Comment by Ann — March 13, 2009 @ 12:27 pm