Hairy Legged Feminists
I was sitting on mfranti’s couch, when the evening light hit my legs at the right angle and she (in that uber mormon-nice way of hers) screeched, “Ahhh! Leg Hair! Ewww!” while pulling her gag face. I don’t really blame her, truth be told, I often have the same reaction. Especially when I put on my dressy boots and the leg hair kinda flops out over the top, ewww. Run Away!
So why not shave? you ask, and save yourself the horror of the leg-hair boot flop.
Well, I’m totally lazy.
Plus the getting old thing, simultaneously less attractive (chin haired, boob sagged, and wrinkled) and more comfortable with myself (dude I’m totally awesome, I kid you not).
And then there’s the ideology. Though I’m never really sure if my ideology is an excuse for the laziness or my laziness is an excuse for my ideology (one wouldn’t want to come off as a militant weirdo).
The laziness is easy to understand, neh? The ideology . . . let me explain.
Leg shaving is part of the man’s conspiracy to grind us under the heel of patriarchy.
Oh, I am hilarious. Hilarious I tell you. I laugh and laugh.
No, okay seriously, it’s a combination of things. I like to think not shaving is at least a little bit green, what with the shorter showers, and use of fewer resources (razors and shaving cream and bandaids and such). And yeah, razor commercials are universally obnoxious.
Then there is the money saved, and being a tenth generation cheapskate (though still not as cheap thrifty as mfranti), I find that very satisfying. Also the time savings, hairless legs seems like such a waste of my limited time and energy, the time and energy I could be using to read trashy romance novels or write blog posts (that certainly sounds better than I’m a great big lazy bottoms).
Plus I hate it. Leg shaving is just one more totally lame boring chore in a life full of boring door-knob-washing dish-doing, laundry-folding lameness. Why do we do this to ourselves? Because we are stoopid sheep. Or maybe I mean we are expressing a natural communal desire to be seen as part of the attractive in-group. Or maybe I mean stoopid sheep. I’m not sure.
And then there’s the radical man-hating militant feminist side of it too.
We obviously have a problem with putting too much emphasis on how women look, even the non-feminists among us can agree on that much. What with our obsession with Katie Couric’s hair and Michelle Obama’s arms and the wanting so desperately to look like under-fed teenagers that it’s making us sick.
Stoopid.
I do think certain amount of aesthetic judgment is an inevitable part of the human condition. I don’t know why exactly, but we are highly aesthetic animals, we make thousands of aesthetic judgments every day. Some make practical sense, those apples look fresh and ripe, yummy. Some make no practical sense, brown socks with black shoes, loser!
Some aesthetic judgments are pretty much universal, and thus probably inevitable. Every culture calls “beautiful” people who are young, and healthy, and symmetrical. And average. The most “average” are also the most beautiful, eyes neither too close or far apart, noses neither too big or small.
These basic preferences run into sex differences too though, in perhaps an inescapably human way. The exceptions to the rule of the beautiful average is in our sexual dimorphisms, and in these things, across cultures, we tend to prefer exaggerated (rather than average) secondary sex traits. Men tend to have more square jaws, and we tend to prefer men with more square than average jaws. Women tend to have longer necks, so we prefer women with longer than average necks. (and smaller feet, bigger eyes, smaller waists, less body hair).
Whatyagonnado?
And my point, hum, I know I had one, what was it. Oh yeah leg hair. Okay.
While symmetry youth and health are universally “beautiful” things,
most beauty is much more subjective and conditional than that.
Plastic pink flamingos . . .
parachute pants. . .
banana clips. . .
As you can see, our ideas of beauty are very flexible. So to some degree while we will probably always find small-chinned big-eyed red-lipped women beautiful, the degree to which any of these are emphasized is highly culturally dependent.
And leg hair happens to fit into one of these spaces. While a certain preference for women having less body hair (especially say, on the chest, belly, and back) will most probably always be with us, while gorilla legs will probably never catch on, hairless female legs are not a universal preference. Yet clearly both mfranti and I have been immersed in a culture of shaved legs. Even while trying, I find it almost impossible get past that preference (this is also true for me in regards to our cultural preference for underfed teenage female bodies types).
Oh why can’t I look like an underfed hairless teenager? WWHHHHYYYYY?
And while I don’t think to shave or not to shave is really very important in the grand scheme of things, I also thought that perhaps having my daughters (and mfranti and whoever) see a real woman’s legs, attractive legs (if I do say so myself) with real hair, might, maybe help them to see leg hair as normal and healthy. Or maybe not, but if no ones willing to buck the trend, nothings ever going to change. And I’m not a fan of how the hairless leg trend is leading into the hairless genitals (ouch) trend driven by our new porn is normal trend.
We (human cultures) have always pushed some of these slight sex based preferences to unhealthy silly (in retrospect) extremes. Foot binding, corsets, breast implants, bustles, neck stretching. Fifty years ago we start with leg shaving, and now we have extreme body waxing. All of it with problematic infantilization (and maybe even pedophilic) undertones.
I guess it’s kinda nice that my laziness and my ideals can so support each other in this particular case. So my advice, stop shaving, it’s so freakin’ righteously easy! (unless of course you feel insecure when people scream “ewwww!” at you).
Michelle Obama’s arms *are* pretty awesome…
Comment by Kerry — March 30, 2009 @ 5:47 pm
If it took just the right lighting to make my hair visible, or my ankles didn’t feel like a brillow pad when hairy, I too would not shave my legs.
Comment by rj — March 30, 2009 @ 5:58 pm
Hehe. I too have wondered about my motives for leg-shaving, makeup-wearing, hair-doing, etc. I never shave my legs in the winter. Not that I believe it makes me feel any warmer, but because my legs never see the light of day in winter. They’re covered by three pairs of pants, long socks, legwarmers, and boots. There’s just not a chance.
I do shave them in the summer . . . about once a week, at my sink using only water. One of these days I want to get a straight razor instead of using those crappy disposable things. I honestly think it would make shaving a lot easier and faster.
Comment by Redoubt — March 30, 2009 @ 5:59 pm
Amen. I don’t shave my legs, either.
Comment by Julie M. Smith — March 30, 2009 @ 6:03 pm
I promise this is true for most women, or at least for most white women: If you stop shaving your hair, after a few years it becomes very fine and downy and not at all noticeable.
Armpit hair never goes away. But what the heck, if it gets long enough you can always braid it or add a banana clip.
Comment by Quimby — March 30, 2009 @ 6:04 pm
Legs, negotiable. Armpits, non.
Comment by ECS — March 30, 2009 @ 6:11 pm
Before we got married, I laid down one law with my (soon-to-be) wife: I’d never tell her when to shave any of her body, and she wouldn’t get to tell me when to shave. I may have been acculturated to like smooth legs, but rationally the idea seems ridiculous to me. She has chosen to keep the armpits smooth and to semi-regularly shave her legs, but I’m positive I’d learn to be fine if she didn’t. And luckily she likes me with a beard, though she does get aggravated when I do goofy things just to mix things up every now and then (monster sideburns, fu-manchu, flava sava, Brigham Young, etc).
I gotta admit, though–I’m going to be creeped out if/when her chin hairs come in as she ages. That one I think I would have trouble adjusting to.
Comment by Derek — March 30, 2009 @ 6:20 pm
http://perezhilton.com/2009-02-20-monique-does-hairy-hippie-chic
celebs do it too!
Comment by nicole — March 30, 2009 @ 6:31 pm
I refuse to buy into beauty rituals for other people. I cannot see make-up, so why apply? If God made my body with hair in some places, I see no reason for my culture to convince met it does not belong there.
Maybe that makes me sound wildly pedantic. In reality, I groom whenever I feel like it, and not when I think it will make other people feel good. That generally results in applying make-up about once a year, shaving my legs on occasion in the summer, and my eye-brows are completely natural.
Comment by ESO — March 30, 2009 @ 6:36 pm
I haven’t shaved my legs since March 1987. I do remember the first time I saw a hippie chick without shaved legs, and being a bit weirded/grossed out by it. But the more I thought about it, the less sense it made to shave.
I shave my armpits every couple of weeks.
My husband does not mind my (non-) shaving habits in the slightest. Never-touched-with-a-razor leg hair is not prickly, but soft.
Comment by janeannechovy — March 30, 2009 @ 6:40 pm
Thanks for the picture of the banana clip, that made my day.
My friends response to people who went “ewww” at her unshaven legs was always, “If they’re grossing you out, stop looking at them!”
I’d completely stop shaving my legs if my husband liked it. He tried, silky feels better he says. So now I make sure to shave once in awhile for him, and only him.
And I use my hair conditioner instead of shave gel, I like to think I’m saving money that way since I don’t use much.
Other than that, I say yeah for no more shaving! (except the pits, I too draw the line. It makes me sweat more!)
Comment by Bewitched — March 30, 2009 @ 6:46 pm
I’m torn about it, because the way we look does communicate things to the rest of the world. And more than a few people have interpreted my hairy-legged make-up-free plain-haired self as just having really really bad self esteem.
Instead of seeing me as a flaming feminist man hater they are apt to see a poor misguided girl or ugly duckling who just needs someone to take her under their wing and show her how to be the hawt chick she really is (one lady even offered to do this for me).
Since I’m soft-spoken, and rather self contained their interpretations aren’t surprising. The easiest way for me to communicate my self-confidence and savoir faire would be to play the beauty game. It can actually be very very hard to be misunderstood in this way. I don’t care if people think I’m ugly, or angry, but I care if they think I’m too dim or poorly educated to take ‘proper’ care of myself.
Comment by Starfoxy — March 30, 2009 @ 6:49 pm
Oh and I should add that I used to wish my husband liked my hairy legs the way my friends husband did. He told her he preferred them hairy. I was jealous. Until we found out there was a reason he liked them hairy - he was gay. They divorced. I took a strange comfort in my husband liking shaved legs. Weird, I know, but couldn’t help it.
Comment by Bewitched — March 30, 2009 @ 6:50 pm
My first memory of feeling too hairy was in 1st grade. I noticed my arms were hairier than my friends and immediately thought that when I grew up I’d need to shave them. I thought the same thing about my legs, even before puberty. Remarkable (& a little sad) I had already absorbed the cultural norms about hair at such a young age.
Funny thing, the hair on my arms is hardly noticeable now. I like the feel of shaved legs, so I do it about once a week. I’m so used to it now, I can’t imagine ever stopping.
I think it should be said that there are very real cultural norms around men’s body hair, too. All the chests in the movies are hairless or nearly so. The backs certainly are hairless. I know a few men who refuse to swim in public because of body hair, and most men have to shave EVERY DAY. Thank goodness I’m not expected to do that.
Comment by Emily U — March 30, 2009 @ 7:00 pm
my sister is blond and doesn’t shave and you can’t tell…which makes me jealous. i am a hairy ape. as it turns out. i just can’t stand the look of it. so i shave. i’d laser it all off if i had the $. it’s just me though. i’m fine with your hairy legs lis! ♥
Comment by Blue — March 30, 2009 @ 7:08 pm
rj, I’m right in that boat with you.
Pale pale skin with dark dark hair, and you can actually see the leg hair growing underneath my skin. If I ever win the lottery, I’m getting laser hair removal.
I don’t think I could stand to wait the couple of years it would take to find out if the hair will stop being so coarse and dark. I would probably have turned all my pants into shorts by then by the abrasive power of my sandpaper legs.
I also now know that Lisa is a small-chinned big-eyed red-lipped woman, and is also very close to looking like an underfed teenager. Except for in the boobs. Those are spectacular.
Comment by reese — March 30, 2009 @ 7:13 pm
Were do I start? Right on Sista! I barely shave my legs and really only because I would need to so my mom won’t die of embarrassment and have to hear about it every time I call her. Anyway…I was think of this the other day on a different forum. New Jersey is considering offically banning the Brazilian wax. One person responded with, “What is wrong with looking like a women?”. My thought was how does getting you cooch waxed make you more of a women?
Comment by StarieNite — March 30, 2009 @ 7:19 pm
the secret is out. i’m an uber nice mormon lady that is really cheap.
tho i prefer to be known for my frugality or brilliant money managing skills.
lisa, i love you. really i do.
ps. promise to never mention leg hair or dogs again. girl scouts honor.
Comment by mfranti — March 30, 2009 @ 7:20 pm
I was watching “Prelude to a Kiss” the other day with Meg Ryan and Alec Baldwin, when they showed him with his shirt off and for a second I was shocked to see perfectly natural chest hair. I have always liked my husbands hairy chest and really don’t understand why men shave it at all. I think it’s gross.
I would really love to stop shaving. It sounds great! plus, I have such light colored hair, no one would probably notice anyway.
My husband does prefer smooth legs, but I don’t shave very often as it is and he seems fine with it. I might just stop altogether.
Comment by Sarah Salway — March 30, 2009 @ 7:21 pm
I have no desire to shave my legs.
Comment by Ray — March 30, 2009 @ 7:24 pm
I think hair, of lack of, is entirely a matter of personal preference, and I wouldn’t dream of telling anyone else what they should or shouldn’t shave, nor how often.
When I was in college I decided to quit shaving my legs. My mom, who believed in freedom of religion, freedom of politics, and freedom of thought in general, went absolutely nuts at the suggestion that I might stop shaving my legs. Realize that she actually shaved far less often than I, because she almost always wore long pants. It wasn’t actual hairy legs that offended her, just the idea of me deliberately deciding not to shave my legs.
In the end, I decided the reason why it upset her so much is because it doesn’t matter. Religion matters, and politics, and thought of all sorts. Which profession you follow matters. Which books you read matters. That’s sacrosanct. But what clothes you wear and whether or not you shave your legs doesn’t matter. That’s why I think it’s good not to take a stand or draw any lines in the sand about those things. Or that’s my reasoning, and it still stands up for me today. I’m rather hairy so I shave arms and legs. When the time comes I’ll shave chin and upper lip as well. I shave all hair on myself that I consider unattractive.
I guess there are so many ways in which I seem weird because of doing what I think, being a female in a mostly male field, choosing a religion that’s far from the mainstream in this part of the country, listening to new music when most people my age still like the same 50 songs they liked in high school and college, etc. etc. Those things matter to me so I’m not going to change them. Body hair and clothes don’t matter to me, so I’ll go along with the crowd on those things just to be nice to other people and not scare them or upset them unnecessarily.
However, I will uphold to the death your right not to shave your legs!
Comment by Tatiana — March 30, 2009 @ 7:27 pm
Lisa, didn’t we compare hairy legs last week at the Lion House? I know someone there was impressed (?) with my leg tresses. My hair is dark so it is very obvious that I don’t shave. This fact grosses my teenage grandchildren out. I just tell them it is my winter coat. I do shave in the summers because I wear shorts and spend time at the pool.
Armpits? I am scheduled for a mammogram tomorrow afternoon. My first thought was that I would have to shave before I go.
I swim three mornings a week with a group of little old ladies. They don’t even bat an eyelash. Neither does my husband.
The chin hair? Different story. I wax regularly.
Comment by Numi — March 30, 2009 @ 7:29 pm
Tatiana, my mother was so appalled when I stopped shaving my pits that she actually pinned me down to the bed and tried to forcibly shave me. That’s going too far, IMHO.
However, while I’m comfortable with hairy legs and hairy pits (although these days I actually will shave if I’m going to wear a shirt that will show the hair - what can I say, I work in a really conservative area), I think I’d draw the line at a hairy face.
Comment by Quimby — March 30, 2009 @ 7:31 pm
I shave my legs about once a week. My husband doesn’t really care (or notice), although he does love my legs.
I think that levels of grooming and beautification show personal pride in your body and presentation. I exercise because I want to be #1, Strong, and #2 maintain a healthy/not-fat body. I like to wear makeup because I feel that my strengthened features give me more command than my regular, day-to-day self. I do regular beauty treatments (washing, exfoliating, moisturizing…) because the better I take care of myself now (at 30) the better I’ll look when I’m 70. I like taking care of what I’ve been given.
I agree that a lot of women’s beauty/fashion industry makes us weaker (heels, skirts, corsets/spanx, jewelry…) and regarded more for our looks then our minds. However, I prefer to use those tools to help me grab attention, and then use my mind to maintain that attention. Sometimes they are advantageous. Other times I just do it for the thrill of being a flower on my husband’s arm. I enjoy it more now that I don’t do it every day.
Comment by Erin — March 30, 2009 @ 7:33 pm
Last fall I had cellulitis in my leg. For a couple of weeks afterward my leg was swollen and vaguely purple. Since I wouldn’t even think of wearing a dress under those circumstances, I stopped shaving my legs.
Around the same time, I tried an experiment. Mil Millington, writer at the funniest web site in the world, “Things My Girlfriend and I have Argued About,” did a straight guy quiz asking straight guys to give their opinions on underarm hair. It came out to about 15% thought it was really hot, 5% thought it was really gross, and 80% didn’t notice or care. I decided to identify which group my husband was in. He was in the 80% group.
I resumed shaving under my arms when the pool opened up again. I still haven’t resumed shaving my legs and I may not, because I almost never wear dresses, the ones I wear are long, and my husband doesn’t care. So why bother? I mean, I’m 49, I’m fat, and I have hair on my chin that concerns me way more.
Comment by Ann — March 30, 2009 @ 7:35 pm
re: 14
Good point about the men. It may not be quite as extreme as with the women, but there is certainly body hair pressures for men. My in-laws tend to be rather hirsute, and have experienced quite a deal of anxiety over that fact.
(I myself actually wouldn’t mind a little more chest hair to help cover up my lack of tone and definition–unless ribs count as “definition”…).
re: 17 (and OP about “pedophilic overtones”)
If women are feeling pressured by fashion towards extreme hairlessness, that is certainly bad. OTOH, (and at the risk of veering into verboten subjects) is it necessarily wrong for an individual (man or woman) to prefer strategic hairlessness because of the way it impacts the sensation during certain marital activities?
Comment by Derek — March 30, 2009 @ 7:41 pm
Quimby, holding you down and forcing you, that’s appalling! I hope you fought back and didn’t let her win. Wow, talk about violating your personal autonomy! Tell your mother I’m shocked!
I found out several years ago that my mother read my mail when I was a teenager and searched my room to try to find clues of any misbehavior. I felt really violated by that, and it happened over 20 years earlier. I would never do that to my son.
Comment by Tatiana — March 30, 2009 @ 7:43 pm
Re: 26. “Hirsute” What a great word. I had to look that one up.
Comment by Emily U — March 30, 2009 @ 7:58 pm
I revel in my invisible leg and arm hair. As anyone who has heard my now-infamous “i think I’ll shave, it’s my honeymoon” story knows, blonds might as well leave the razors alone, vanity be damned. Our leg hair is invisible anyhow, so we get the double fun of being all “ooh ooh, look at progressive me” and STILL knowing we fit the social norm whilst sporting a swimsuit.
Besides, doesn’t shaving lead to scratchy stubble? Who has the patience to shave every day? Bleargh.
Comment by Janet — March 30, 2009 @ 8:13 pm
I don’t care whether any woman I’m not having sex with shaves her legs or not. But for the woman I’m having sex with, smooth legs, please. I realize that’s cultural conditioning talking, but that’s a particular cultural conditioning I don’t think I can esape.
Comment by Kevin Barney — March 30, 2009 @ 8:41 pm
re: 24
Heels…Ugh. The thought of wearing them makes me shudder. Why do women put up with those?
BTW, while growing up, I often heard that other cultures had markedly different standards of grooming–for example, European women didn’t shave pits or legs (or so I heard). Assuming that was true, is it still so now? Or has the international dominance of U.S. culture lead to a homogenization of those sorts of appearance and grooming expectations? Given that we have at least a couple international participants here, and it relates to the topic, this seems like as good a venue as any to satisfy my curiosity.
Comment by Derek — March 30, 2009 @ 8:57 pm
Comment by Naismith — March 30, 2009 @ 9:22 pm
Kevin Barney will be heartbroken to discover that he has nixed me from his celestial harem.
I would like to go a step past the I don’t shave because I am lazy, empowered and ethical; I also don’t shave becasue I think it’s sexy, particularly the armpits. True dat.
Comment by crazywomancreek — March 30, 2009 @ 9:25 pm
Re: European women and shaving - My understanding is that it varies widely from country to country. I don’t think you can make a blanket statement that European women either do or don’t shave but you could probably make a blanket statement that (with some exceptions) women in this certain European country do/don’t shave.
Comment by Quimby — March 30, 2009 @ 9:26 pm
Perhaps this was covered (didn’t read all the comments), but I have to say…. I actually enjoy being hairless in the nether regions. I shave my legs maybe once a month, and my armpits whenever I can work up the courage to (man, that hurts!!!). But if I could get a bikini wax every other month, I totally would….. It is PAINFUL, but afterwards it is so nice and comfortable and CLEAN. I would do it totally for myself. My husband mostly doesn’t notice my shaving habits, so it’s not a biggie….
Yeah, shaving my legs is on the way out, I fear…. It is so time-consuming, and so futile! They’re prickly again the very next day! AUGH! But if I had an extra $30-$45 every other month to spare, I really just might do the bikini thing on a regular basis….
Comment by Natalie K. — March 30, 2009 @ 9:28 pm
I like the look and feel of shaved legs (and armpits). I absolutely can’t stand hair in my pits, so I shave them everyday. I shave my legs when they will be seen. Occassionally in the winter and often in the summer. What I wear to church is usually determined by whether I found time to shave that week or not . . .
Comment by Stephanie — March 30, 2009 @ 9:31 pm
But I admit that I usually stop at the knees, and I shave above that when I am finally grossed out enough to do something about it.
Comment by Stephanie — March 30, 2009 @ 9:32 pm
No. 33 crazywomancreek, rats! Heartbroken, indeed.
Comment by Kevin Barney — March 30, 2009 @ 9:37 pm
We’re only talking about shaving armpits and legs? [runs and hides]
Comment by Bro. Jones — March 30, 2009 @ 9:43 pm
Lisa
I don’t shave either. Maybe you noticed last summer when we met with our kids at Eagle Island. I’m hoping that enough women will band together and end this stupid, restrictive, waste of time. I sometimes meet someone who doesn’t shave either and we don’t have to say anything, there is instant comradarie.
Its funny, I can’t stand the feel of shaved legs. I feel slimy.
Comment by Melissa — March 30, 2009 @ 9:51 pm
Is there data to support that shaving makes one “look better” later on? I don’t understand how that works.
I totally agree about the gym and moisturizer (with sunscreen), but I don’t see how shaving fits into the picture.
Comment by Naismith — March 30, 2009 @ 9:53 pm
Natalie, the one time I tried that (and I didn’t pay for a wax; I idiotically used a razor. We could write a treatise on how Janet should avoid razors. It never goes well) my husband was not so much pleased as 1) amused and 2) aghast. His first response upon my sexy saunter into the bedroom was to be convulsed with laughter. After that subsided he sat up, looked at me with a confused expression, and said, “what? You think I’m a pedophile?” And since I’m so nearly hairless anyhow, it’s not like I’ll ever have to try that trick again, swimsuits or no. How I love my husband!
Kevin–a lot of women have such fine hair you would neither see nor feel it. My husband would feel my leg hair a lot more if a shaved and grew stubble. As it is, he says he can’t notice it without a flashlight. I’ve always wanted thick hair, but I gotta say, if thin hair on my head is the price I pay for nearly no hair elsewhere, then tally ho hurrah!
Comment by Janet — March 30, 2009 @ 9:54 pm
I am with you Natalie K! #35. I had electrolysis (not the semi-perm laser, but true permanent) hair removal on the bikini line about 10 or so years ago and have never looked back. LOVE it. I do feel cleaner when exercising, when it is warm and I love not being caught out if I want to put on my suit for a swim on a whim. Plus, I had sensitive skin, so I looked like I had an STD when I tried to shave or wax. My hair is fair on legs and pits, so I am not as obligated to shave as often as women to look hairless, but still do largely for the same clean-feeling reason. There is an argument about pheromones and hair, especially pubic hair carries the pheromones, so supposedly women with harry pits and pubs are more scientifically attracting.
But isn’t that the whole feminist thing- being allowed the choice- to shave if we choose, even if it is considered trampy or to not shave, if we choose, even if it is considered grotesque by society. Freedom to choose what we feel is right for us and our bodies. I love celebrating choices!
Comment by spunky — March 30, 2009 @ 9:54 pm
Well, that explains why men are always all over me.
That, or the fact that I work in aged care and most of them have dementia!
Comment by Quimby — March 30, 2009 @ 10:00 pm
#41- shaving does increase the exfoliation of skin- but– not sure if pits and legs are wrinkle problem zones in your 70’s… arguably as well, if you aren’t using sunblock and have bare shaven legs, you might actually be doing some skin damage. But the argument bodes well for everything else, if you eat well in your youth and continue to do so, you will have a healthier body as you age.
Has anyone else read that theory– there was a study maybe a decade ago about attractive features across cultural boundaries? They looked at commonalities and found that there were similarities not associated with culture such as age, eyes, clear skin and good posture.. . the study (and I wish I could remember who did it) made the argument that the attractive features across cultures- such as clear skin and good posture related into a sub-conscious desire to procreate for stronger, healthier offspring to propel the species a la animal instinct, like survival of the fittest… so younger women have better ovaries and more strength to survive labor, equating youth as more attractive than age. Clear skin was equated with healthy food sources therefore better hormone balance, so men who were better and stronger to hunt, farm and provide.
Dang study- why can’t I remember who did it?
Comment by spunky — March 30, 2009 @ 10:14 pm
I must admit… it has never occurred to me not to shave my legs. I kinda like it. It’s extra time in the shower where no one is whining at me or asking me where they put something. I will say I hate how sore my legs always are afterward because of my sensitive skin, but I’ve been doing it since… forever? It feels as routine as washing my hair at this point. This feels like one “feminist” ideal I can afford to miss out on. But rock on to all the hairy-legged ladies out there.
Comment by Alyssa — March 30, 2009 @ 10:27 pm
I never regularly shaved my legs until I became a bored, post-baby, late-twenties housewife with nobody to impress with my rebelliousness or my hairlessness (My husband honestly doesn’t care.)
I always feel guilty when I do shave — I gave so many self-righteous lectures to my friends in high school about the evils of trying to making yourself into the sexist feminine ideal — skinny, child-like and hairless. I think I was right, but now, with nobody to rebel against, the relentless messages have seeped into my brain.
Comment by Vg — March 30, 2009 @ 10:52 pm
#41 & #45
I was talking about all the other beauty regimine — not necessarily shaving. It just seems to me that women who aren’t interested in shaving/makeup also frequently (not always) don’t take any time for, or interest in, any extra skin and hair care beyond washing.
Comment by Erin — March 30, 2009 @ 11:24 pm
I shave my legs and armpits every day, but I rarely wear makeup. The former makes me look better and feel better about myself, and the latter just doesn’t make that much of a difference, especially to the men I’ve dated. A little lip gloss can be nice, though.
Comment by Portia — March 31, 2009 @ 12:02 am
I shave about once a week, and then only below the knee. This is entirely because I am lazy. In fact, all of my body hair negligence (not cleaning up my eyebrows until they’re all the way grown in, letting my upper lip grow a while between waxes) comes from laziness. If I could afford electrolysis for everything - legs, arms, armpits, face, bikini line, random little hairs elsewhere - I would take it in a heartbeat. This dark, thick hair I have growing on my head brings its friends around elsewhere, and the truth is I’m constantly insecure about it. I even worry about the little peach-fuzz hairs on my stomach - you know, the normal ones that you can’t even see - because even if no one will ever notice them, I know they’re there. Drives me crazy. But I make myself stick to the stuff that’s most visible because I know I’d go way overboard otherwise and just spend hours and hours on this stuff. It’s really annoying, because I know it’s silly, and I know it’s all just cultural conditioning that’s been taken way too far, and I’ve even spent plenty of time and energy defending other women who don’t shave/wax/pluck/depilatorize/laser/etc. But I just can’t do it. I also have a severe aversion to being seen without makeup. Family members and roommates are fine, but I nevernevernever leave home without at least mascara and concealer on. It’s gotten to the point where I feel like I don’t look like myself without them. And the thing is, I know it’s ridiculous, but I just feel better about myself when my skin is smooth and hairless and my lashes are long and dark, I really do.
Anyway, this is my rambly, roundabout way of saying that I really admire you women who are secure enough in yourselves to just do what you want. That’s really quite awesome.
Comment by OhMissJulie — March 31, 2009 @ 12:21 am
Oh, I do shave my armpits every day - or rather, every time I shower, which is about every other day. I skip showers because A) I don’t generally partake in that much strenuous activity during the day so I don’t really need it; and B) Because I have naturally curly hair that I straighten every day, and if I don’t shower then it only takes me about 5 minutes to do my hair versus the 30-45 mins it takes to blow-dry and straighten if I do shower.
Yikes, I am starting to sound like a neurotic un-feminist to myself. I frequently go without a bra just because I don’t feel like wearing one; does that count for something?
Comment by OhMissJulie — March 31, 2009 @ 12:26 am
I’d just like to chime in for the not-gay contingent of men who actually find body hair attractive, both physically and intellectually, because it means a woman is willing to challenge social norms.
That said, I also have a general thing about everything that feels like body modification to me. Even the single ear-piercing accepted by the Church seems to be on the same spectrum, though much more benign, as ritual scarification and cosmetic surgery. You’re poking metal through your ears, right?
That said, I don’t let it bother me in dating and whatnot, and I figure it’s always her decision anyway, but I tend have greater respect and definitely increased attraction for any girl willing to stand up for the way her body is naturally.
Comment by Christian — March 31, 2009 @ 1:16 am
Hey scary hairy girls–more power to ya. But as for me and my house; we shall shave our legs! I was born with fair skin and a lot of dark hair, had to listen to the “hairy ape” comments all my life. Hated the excess hair, hated that nasty prickly stubble. One of the best utterly selfish things I ever did for myself (yes, MYSELF–hubby hates stubble too, but that was not the point) was to have laser hair removal in my early thirties. I am silky smooth everywhere and talk about feelin good…when I put lotion on in the morning I wish I could make out with myself. yummmmy….
do any of you remember Nena - 99 Luftballons?? I was fascinated with her proud display of pit hair, which prompted some interesting discussions about cultural norms and perceived beauty at BYU in the 80’s: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L1oSOTUCCE&feature=PlayList&p=D7560B77111C148A&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=11
Keep it real! (Just keep the skirts long, pls.)
Comment by mehzzdup — March 31, 2009 @ 1:17 am
Pretty much every winter, I don’t shave for months. I don’t feel the least bit bad about it.
Comment by Michelle Glauser — March 31, 2009 @ 2:03 am
What a breath of fresh air this post is for me. I’ve been somewhat out of the loop since we moved in the middle of February… since then, it’s been about settling in, etc.
When we moved, I decided to go native and put down the razor. I wasn’t a particularly dedicated leg-shaver before, but I made the attempt. Here I am now, into week 7 and I’d say I’ve got a light coating of hair, though it does seem to be growing in all sorts of directions.
My dh says he doesn’t mind either way (shave or not), but that begs the question… “all these married years and you didn’t care? or have you only recently stopped caring.” I haven’t asked, just wondered. Anyway, it’s been interesting so far - haven’t made a decision one way or the other after the weather turns warm. Perhaps my lack of preplanning on this will allow for a more organic experience.
Make it a great day sisters and brothers!
Comment by Mary Magdalene — March 31, 2009 @ 2:13 am
Speaking for Germany, the women are well shaved, I see no difference between here and the US in that regard. Also, judging by the locker room - the brazillian is alive and well here also.
As for me, I like to be well shaved. But, I a swim regularly and most men I know who swim regularly also shave much of their body.
Comment by julie — March 31, 2009 @ 5:23 am
I don’t see those as connected in the least, and I don’t see that some forms of “extra skin and hair care” does help one look younger in the end. A lot of people think using a tanning bed is part of better-looking skin, but those things can really ruin your skin down the road. And blow-drying or dyeing is no way healthy for hair.
Also, I have to say that as a professional who has to project a certain appearance, I am not oblivious or flagrantly flouting social norms. I wear pants or support panty hose to work, and one cannot see my leg hair through it. I don’t wear anything sleeveless because of the over-air-conditioning. I’ve had the same hair stylist for years because my hair consistently looks okay.
So I don’t stand out as a “hairy scary girl,” and nobody knows my shaving status. Some of the most well groomed women you know might be unshaven.
Comment by Naismith — March 31, 2009 @ 6:08 am
So, I have a nagging question, and I am going to go ahead and say it. (Deep breath) I have heard that in p*rn, the women are shaved in their nether region, so more and more women are now shaving that part of their body because more and more men are requesting it or finding it attractive. I have never viewed p*rn and do not have a desire to research this myself. But, I find this as plausible. Anyone else know? If it is true, it really diminishes any desire I would have to shave that part of my body exactly for the feminist reasons that Lisa outlined.
Comment by Stephanie — March 31, 2009 @ 8:07 am
I like Thomas Jefferson’s quote “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.” I’ve gone back and forth over the years on which category (not) shaving falls into.
Comment by Gina — March 31, 2009 @ 8:29 am
Do any of the unshaven women out there, mostly the ones who you can tell (non-blondes, shorts-wearing, etc.), ever worry about embarrassing the kids around their friends with this decision? I’m not saying you should or shouldn’t be worried about it, but, I’m just curious, how does that enter the equation for you?
Comment by HeidiAnn — March 31, 2009 @ 8:30 am
I’ve heard that too, Stephanie, but like you have no desire to research to find out.
When I was in Germany, 14 years ago, the girls were all hairy, but the expected me to shave because I was American.
They found it extremely entertaining I think when I showed them that I didn’t shave my legs and arm hair. It opened up a lot of discussion about social norms and stereotyping. It was extremely enlightening for me. But that was 14 years ago, things could have drastically changed and I was on the eastern side of Germany 6 years after the wall fell, so perhaps the “American” ideals of image hadn’t penetrated yet.
I started shaving in college because my job was one that I needed to dress nicely, and I don’t particularly like long dresses and I really do not like pant suits, they are not flattering on my body and I would rather shave than wear pantyhose, blech.
Comment by queenlucy — March 31, 2009 @ 8:37 am
re: 58
I think that is likely true. I know that a couple of women at my wife’s old job told my wife that their husbands liked them to shave, and that their husbands got the idea from Playboy and similar sources (they were not LDS, and apparently not bothered by their husband’s magazine habits).
Comment by Derek — March 31, 2009 @ 8:49 am
Its absolutely true that the shaven thing comes from Porn - but not just for women. Men are usually totally shaven too.
Does anyone watch Californication? The topic is often addressed in that show.
Comment by julie — March 31, 2009 @ 9:02 am
I wsa invited on a date by a guy who wanted to take me to a fancy restaurant. He mentioned that i should wear a dress. I said no, that would mean I had to shave my legs. He was rather astonished. But I figure I am 41. I am going to be straight up with him from the start. If he wants arm candy, go somewhere else.
Comment by StillConfused — March 31, 2009 @ 9:11 am
No, because they are going to be embarrassed no matter what you do.
Comment by Naismith — March 31, 2009 @ 9:46 am
We’re obviously not porn viewers in our house, but I will occasionally bust out the razor for the ladybits. DH likes it because it’s a change of pace in a ten year marriage - something new to look at, ya know? - and I like it because of tremendously increased sensitivity.
But I don’t keep it that way as a matter of course, because seriously - the sensitivity would drive me to distraction.
Comment by reese — March 31, 2009 @ 10:21 am
Re# 65: Great answer Naismith!
My teenage grandkids, 13 and 16, think my hairy legs are gross. I shave in the summers so it’s not a problem at the pool.
I think chewing gum and saying “like” every other word is gross so we’re even.
Comment by Numi — March 31, 2009 @ 10:22 am
re: 58,
I have seen a movie or two in my past with my hubby, and some women were bare and some were au natural.
Now that we do not watch such films, I understand it is more common, for the women to be bare. I have a beautician friend who does waxing and she convinced me (not my husband, who loves me with and without hair) to try a brazilian. I gave in and I must say that I LOVE it. My hubby likes it, but he likes it au natural too.
Just so you know, smooth skin=more sensation. It adds a lot of feeling for me. And I feel cleaner.
I hate shaving my legs though and only do it seasonally.
So I wax; completely bald for me. Not b/c of p*rn, not because my hubby’s requests or demands, but because it feels really freaking good.
I completely support your collective decisions to shave, not shave, wax, laser, or braid your leg, pit, or nether hair.
Comment by bald in relief society — March 31, 2009 @ 10:30 am
hmm …
anyone here a dark haired lady? you know, if you don’t shave you look like you have man legs?
i realize that i should have more confidence in my natural state but dang…the visual of my dark leg hair flopping over my boots doesn’t boost my confidence level.
Comment by mfranti — March 31, 2009 @ 10:39 am
I shave. I like it. We live in the south, so most of the year I am in shorts at least part of the day. I hate shaving my armpits, but the dark hair is a little plentiful for me to feel comfortable with. I like the feeling of shaved legs so I do it. I stopped once and was surprised that the leg hair was not as dark as my head hair was, but I hated the feeling of it blowing in the wind. It may not have been black, but there was a lot of it.
Do what you like and what feels good to you. I really don’t care either way on other people. Wait, that’s not totally true, I actually prefer my husband in a beard, so I guess I do have some preferences.
Comment by miles — March 31, 2009 @ 10:54 am
i just have two words to say in support of shaving legs–ROAD RASH. as a cyclist, shaving makes treating this really painful problem much easier. ever tried pulling adhesive tape off hairy legs?
Comment by sparekitty — March 31, 2009 @ 11:02 am
I shave my legs once a week, usually Saturday or Sunday morning, because I was taught to always wear nylons to church. Nylons + 1 week’s hair growth = MAJORLY PAINFUL. It feels like every hair is getting pulled at the same time, because my hair works its way into the nylons. I shave to my knees generally, and my knees a few times a year, and my thighs every couple years. I’m in my early 20’s.
Every two or three months I attack my nether regions with my razor and hubby’s beard trimmer. I feel cleaner when things are trimmed and in control. Maybe I should get a wax, but I feel shy. Hubby would love it.
I do buzz my eyebrows with a beard trimmer every two months, or else they get incredibly long.
Comment by Hokie — March 31, 2009 @ 12:48 pm
I shave around the bikini line every time I shower, and do the pits too. But the legs — man that is more territory to cover. I went to go get laser hair removal on my legs. Holy freak batman. They say it feels like a rubber band snap. You know what — it does — and that crap hurts. So I only went once. I am now a little splotchy in the leg hair department. The advantage to that is it has to be a lot longer to be noticable.
Mfranti - I have very dark hair too. But from a distance, it looks like a healthy suntan. Think of it that way.
My daughter gets a Brazilian done. I am not sure how I feel about having that kind of activity done in that particular zone. Seems like there could be some potential hazards.
Comment by StillConfused — March 31, 2009 @ 12:52 pm
RE: #72 “I shave my legs once a week, usually Saturday or Sunday morning, because I was taught to always wear nylons to church”
I have heard this before, and I find it befuddling. Nylons? really?? Is this a part of Mormon culture we just don’t adhere to in the desert? hmmmm
Comment by mehzzdup — March 31, 2009 @ 1:09 pm
re: 74
Within the Book of Mormon Belt, it is generally considered inappropriate not to wear nylons to Church. You know, because skintight leg coverings are much less likely to incite lust in the hearts of men…
(My mother was scandalized to find that my wife had started attending services sans nylons–and sometimes even in open-toed shoes!).
Comment by Derek — March 31, 2009 @ 1:48 pm
I don’t even wear nylons to the temple very often anymore . . . scandalous!
Comment by Stephanie — March 31, 2009 @ 1:59 pm
let me be clear - I wear them in the temple - just not to the temple.
Comment by Stephanie — March 31, 2009 @ 2:00 pm
I think “bald in relief society” is just about the best handle ever.
has anyone else recently seen this commercial? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT89qfDx3yM It’s on all.the.time here in Texas. I’ll admit that it kind of grosses me out.
As for me and my body hair, I’m a lazy-shaver. It’s really hard for me to reach deep into the armpits and into the cracks and crannies around my knees and ankles, so I’m pretty patchy. And I never shave above the knees. I wonder if I let my calf hair grow out if it would eventually be blonde like my thighs and head, or if it would continue to be brown like it is now. I like shorts too much to have hairy brown legs.
Comment by Shelah — March 31, 2009 @ 2:33 pm
Nylons = Satan. Even in the temple I wore white trouser socks. My legs gotsta breathe (as does my crotch)
Comment by StillConfused — March 31, 2009 @ 2:33 pm
amen, StillConfused! ironically I was made to send all of my patterned nylons home from the MTC. I was in wide eyed shock when told to do so, and was never given an interesting answer as to why. so, I think the rules are as follows:
1) bare neked legs is toooo enticing to be tolerated
2) nylon covered legs are righteous
3) patterned nylon covered legs are evil
4) hairy legs are….feminist?…
and I remain, ever humbly so, messed up.
Comment by mehzzdup — March 31, 2009 @ 3:27 pm
but happy, and oh so silky smooth in my enticingly bared legged messed-up-edness.
Comment by mehzzdup — March 31, 2009 @ 3:31 pm
okay, so have you seen the boost mobile commercial of the couple that is riding their bike (forgot what the twosome bike is called) and the ladies armpit hair is flicking the guy in the face?…. snort….snort… totally reminds me of you Lisa. Is that rude? No, because I love you! and I appreciate armpit hair, and leg hair… but still, I shave both… and that commercial is so freaking funny… I mean he just sits there taking the armpit hair lashing, while riding his bike…
And, I know your post was so much more than my comment, but that is all I could think of while I was reading. I will come back and read it again and make a good intelligent comment about fashion, and in a patriarchal society we should all come together as women and ban shaving, and the companies connected to shaving….
But for now… red armpit hair. Fun!
Comment by Sunshine — March 31, 2009 @ 7:22 pm
My junior year in high school I played basketball and my whole team decided not to shave until the end of the season. The best part? I was also a cheerleader so for the whole season I wore a cheerleading skirt with very hairy legs.
As for now, I shave every other day but only because I swim laps and hate the way hairy legs feel in the water. I guess I could let it all grow out and it might not bother me but I am not willing to take the chance.
Comment by Eris — March 31, 2009 @ 8:12 pm
i dont shave in the winter. my husband actually PREFERS it when i dont shave, that big weirdo! but i do it in summer, mostly cause i dont want to be that girl at the pool with big poofs sticking out either side of her nether region. we’ve all seen that girl.
i find it tricky trying to balance my own desire to be attractive with what i know is stoopid. i dont shave, out of intellectual protest, but my aesthetics are so ingrained into me that i do not find myself/feel attractive hairy. i find thsi socialized sexual aesthetics thing highly annoying.
Comment by nobodyputsbabyinacorner — March 31, 2009 @ 8:24 pm
o ya and i got pissed off once cause my GORGEOUS sister in law totally had a man tell her she was unrighteous and militant for not shaving (under my influence, i like to think). is it ever legal to choke people?
Comment by nobodyputsbabyinacorner — March 31, 2009 @ 8:25 pm
Men like that described in #85 should realise that feminists don’t hate all men, just them.
Also, when such men say that lesbians just haven’t met the right man - an appropriate answer is, “Maybe not, but I’ve met you, and that’s enough to turn anyone off men for life.”
Comment by Quimby — March 31, 2009 @ 8:34 pm
right? and she is just a budding feminist too, learning to put her value on her mind rather than just her “substantial” looks. i dont want her to get discouraged by douches. apparently byu idaho is a difficult proving ground. i think she’ll make it though.
Comment by nobodyputsbabyinacorner — March 31, 2009 @ 8:50 pm
Quimby– I totally agree with you!
Comment by Sunshine — March 31, 2009 @ 9:44 pm
I don’t even own a pair of pantyhose … until the PH starts wearing pantyhose over their garments, I refuse to wear pantyhose over mine. I figure at that point there would be a modification in garment design…. something less bloomer-esque.
I love Wednesdays!
Comment by Mary Magdalene — April 1, 2009 @ 6:08 am
Waxing is the answer.
Comment by JA Benson — April 1, 2009 @ 6:47 am
she is just a budding feminist too, learning to put her value on her mind rather than just her “substantial” looks
Ha! I may be a feminist after all! (well, maybe if I had “substantial” looks . . . )
Comment by Stephanie — April 1, 2009 @ 9:36 am
I’m blond with extremely slow growing hair. For me, I’m relatively active and shaving the pits regularly helps keep me less stinky. I only shave the legs when wearing trouser socks feels like a cat being petted tail to head (maybe six times a year).
Now, getting my teenage daughter to shave her pits is a struggle. I can tell when she has gone a week or two because she really stinks. I don’t personally care if people shave or not, but I do care if their mere presence sets off my gag reflex.
DH doesn’t care about legs, he does care about pits and down south not getting too out of control. Personal preference.
As for there being a connection between make-up/hair care and taking care of oneself, I don’t think that is a true indicator. I have always used sunscreen, face creams, moisturizers, and worn hats and long clothing for sun protection. On the other hand, I wear make-up only occasionally, and those hats are really good for not having to do your hair. My toenails are almost always painted, (I feel sexy when they are fire engine red) but hardly do anything with my fingernails past the occasional cuticle care.
Comment by JJ — April 1, 2009 @ 9:39 am
I used to pluck my legs. They felt like satin.
Comment by meems — April 4, 2009 @ 11:03 am
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