The Glenn Beck conundrum…
I know I’m not alone when I say this, but I really, really, really hate Glenn Beck. But here’s where I may be on my own: I feel a little guilty for that.
I do my best to avoid his program, I really don’t need more stress in my life, but he’s kind of hard to avoid. He has a knack for saying the most outrageous, offensive, off-the-wall garbage that infects all the rest of the media I actually do seek out. Here’s a little taste after about a two minute google search:
He called Katrina survivors scumbags and said that he hated the 9/11 families.
While on a different network, and with Bush in the white house, he spoke out about the need for healthcare reform, and then reversed his position once on Fox News, complete with alarmist ranting.
He basically cheered while homes (and a military base, by the way) burned (full disclosure: a natural disaster I (and my house, thank heavens) lived through).
Repeatedly warns that our country is marching to socialism, and not just socialism, but fascism!
Threatened Muslims with concentration camps (and bonus at the link, also asked a Muslim congressperson to prove they weren’t working for “the enemy”)
And then, most recently, gave this little gem out on a talk show:
“This president has exposed himself as a guy over and over and over again who has a deep-seated hatred for white people … this guy is, I believe, a racist.”
So, he’s repellent and whether he actually believes this stuff or just says what will garner him ratings, I just can’t see a case made where this is at all morally sound.
On the other hand, he is, by all accounts, a devout Mormon and has repeatedly shared his conversion story with whatever outlet would listen in a manner that comes across as tender and sincere. Plus it automatically tugs at my heart when he talks about the conversion being spurred by his daughter with Cerebral Palsy. I’m a sucker. He even credits God and his participation in the church with his media success, recounting how the day after he was baptized, jobless and without prospects, he got a call from some important media guy that led to where he is today.
My instinct is to write this guy off and accord him all the hate in my heart. To apologize to anyone I see and make sure they understand that he is not a representative of the faith. To wonder where his local leadership is and how no one sees a problem with him being honest with his fellow men. To question how his conversion, particularly a conversion motivated by the desire for Zion, could in any way be sincere when he sows such ugliness in the world.
But I have been participating in FMH for long enough to see commenters level every one of those accusations at every single poster here. There are loads of people in the world, heck, even the bloggernacle, who think that trying to be a Mormon and a feminist, or a Mormon and a democrat, or whatever, is just as irreconcilable as I see Beck’s political preachings and Mormonism to be. I have seen time and time again as some driveby so and so has asked one of the permas why they haven’t been exed for supporting a group counter to the work of the church, or how they have to apologize to everyone they see to make sure no one mistakes one of us as a representative of the church.
In general I tend to be a proponent of “Big Tent” Mormonism. I’m in favor of individual journeys of faith and I know that my practice of religion is not how other people need to experience it and vice versa. But is there a line beyond the member/non-member divide? Should there be if we are striving for Zion? If I want to be accepted as a Mormon Feminist, does that mean I need to extend that same privilege to Glenn Beck? Or can I just say, “He doesn’t count.”
I wouldn’t feel bad for hating him. There are members who have totally opposite political beliefs than mine, but I get along with them because they keep it to themselves, and I keep my views to myself. Glenn is out there purposely stirring up contention, for the sake of what? Certainly not to come to an understanding, I think, but just for the sake of his ratings. Plus did you see him after his hospital event? I think he is a bit unhinged. I would pity him, but not while he’s making a ton of money for what he is doing.
Comment by scw — August 28, 2009 @ 7:05 pm
Reese, I enjoyed this article by you. Keep up the great work!
I used to watch Beck with my husband and then we’d debate what Beck had had to say. Often we’d surprise each other with the deep thoughts (!) we’d had on these topics and very often we’d end up taking bits and pieces of Beck’s program and leaving the majority by the side.
Just watching his showmanship and his Manhattan-itis is telling how ratings-driven he truly is. His segues and lead-ins and come-ons are so over the top. But he has this persona that makes you think he genuinely believes it.
I have difficulty pronouncing him temple-unworthy because of his drivel and his hate-mongering…mostly because I’m terribly glad I’m not in the position to have to make that decision.
I wonder sometimes if, like some comedians, he never shuts off?
Comment by MchllChndlr — August 28, 2009 @ 7:16 pm
I’ve known Glenn for about 10 years and I can honestly say I’ve never known anyone who does more for people in need, or someone who really means well.
I suggest you start here; no matter who you are, you probably want what’s best for you, your family, and your country. So I beg of you this, don’t hate *any* other citizen. Listen to them. The hate and anger is what’s preventing a discussion that could solve our problems. Do you understand where hate comes from, right?
Glenn just wants answers to questions (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,542266,00.html). How you can fault anyone who wants truthful answers to their question is beyond me.
Comment by Me — August 28, 2009 @ 7:16 pm
Check this Glenn video out too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0OUXkZO8vE&feature=player_embedded
He keeps asking, what’s the one missing letter??? Y, he says.
Except…he left off one other letter. Its hilarious because the board was already written up before he started circling things on it. Someone should have realized the word was misspelled….
I don’t think he has anyone fact checking his show for him.
Comment by barnetto — August 28, 2009 @ 7:20 pm
I really like your last two paragraphs. I think the answer is that if a person is sincere then we need to accept their right to have (what appear to us to be) loopy opinions. I find it distasteful when people cynically accuse those they disagree with of just doing things for ratings because I think sincerity is a critically important factor. We should be ready to marshal compelling evidence to make our case before we call someone’s sincerity into question. I find plenty to disagree with on this site and I find Glenn Beck to be outrageously alarmist on many occasions, but I’m happy to accept everyone into in the big tent of Mormonism who comes by their beliefs sincerely.
Comment by Jacob J — August 28, 2009 @ 7:24 pm
@3
I can understand wanting answers to questions. There’s a lot of really valid questions out there. But there’s a difference between asking the question, “How are we going to pay for this program,” and a question like “Does the president know of a coming event? If not, who builds an army against an unrecognized enemy?”
That second question is from the article you linked to. Its pure irrational fear mongering. He built from asking “Why do we need a civilian force?” to calling it an army. HELLO, its Americorp! A friend of mine went to Iowa with his daughter and her class where they ran a vacation bible school and they worked under Americorp to clean up and rebuild the damage done in Iowa from the recent flooding.
Like I said, he needs a fact checker. Pretty much all of his questions can be answered. But for whatever reason (if you know him, does he believe this stuff?) he is h*-bent on his conspiracy mongering. This wouldn’t be a problem if he were the random kook on the internet who believes in lizard people (see David Icke) but he’s on tv (radio, print) and there are some people out there who will think his wacky concerns (if he has valid concerns, its too bad they’re getting mixed in with the rest) are legitimate solely because the newsy man on tv said it.
Comment by barnetto — August 28, 2009 @ 7:41 pm
I find Glenn Beck’s hyper-conservatism and reactionary positions extremely annoying. I would not want my religion “judged” on the basis of him as its representative.
Comment by Lorian — August 28, 2009 @ 7:52 pm
There are lots of scumbags in the church, he just happens to be a celebrity scumbag that will lie and say anything for ratings. His fake emotional breakdowns and constant chatter about socialism and fascism area huge turn-off. Now that he’s losing advertisers I can only hope he’ll go away and he’ll no longer be considered a famous Mormon.
Comment by jjohnsen — August 28, 2009 @ 7:56 pm
Actually, someone left the word Czars off and it caused him to miss the C. The word was Oligarch. I don’t seek to evaluate other people, I make mistakes at my job all the time.
Personally, I think it’s evil to nitpick and attack people for the insignificant. What have you to say about the rest of his message? Nothing it seems.
Glenn has opened his home up to people in need, he’s raised money for children… it’s just shameful how many death threats he gets. For what? He doesn’t care what you think of him, as he said on his show today all he cares about is making sure when he gets to God he has his honor with him. I don’t know you, but from what I read here all of you would do well to be half the person he is.
Comment by Me — August 28, 2009 @ 8:00 pm
Glenn is a stud I’m glad he’s Mormon and appreciate his hard work at exposing the scum bags we have “leading” this country. You can say what you want about Glenn but you cannot distract from the message — power to the people.
Comment by Clint — August 28, 2009 @ 8:02 pm
I get seriously upset with Glenn Beck, mostly because I have too many friends and family who take what he has to say way too seriously. One of them posted a link to a video of him asking questions (about Obama’s special advisers) and said basically, “This is scary stuff if it’s true, and if it isn’t, why doesn’t the president respond and refute it?” Personally, I didn’t find it all that scary, but even if you don’t agree with the positions of Obama’s advisers, do you really expect him to respond to the claims of someone who called him a racist just a few weeks ago for absolutely no reason?
And that’s what I wanted to say in response to the link, but I refrained and just ignored it. I try to stay out of political debates with radically conservative family members, since it generally just leads to bad feelings on all sides. (And it’s my husband’s family, at that, and other than having very different political views, we get along very well.)
Comment by Vada — August 28, 2009 @ 8:03 pm
Me, you’re kind of proving my point. My post wasn’t only about Glenn Beck, but about how we relate to fellow members we vehemently disagree with.
If your only response is to criticize our practice of the faith, then how does that make you better than us criticizing Glenn Beck.
And how did so many fans get here so fast? I can’t imagine there’s an enormous GB/FMH crossover.
Comment by Reese Dixon — August 28, 2009 @ 8:14 pm
I’m still forming opinions on him but I do believe his conversion was as sincere as it gets and that he may truly be doing and saying what he believes he needs to in order to be true to himself. If that’s true, it’s a worthy goal, no matter who disagrees - and that isn’t to say that I agree with all of his positions or that I think he is “right” in his opinions or the way he spreads them. I don’t claim to know the basis for his negativity and I agree that more tolerance is needed on both sides. But one thing I do know is that I was raised to view “hate” as a four letter word and I am trying to teach my children the same.
Comment by corktree — August 28, 2009 @ 8:30 pm
So yes, I think you have it right at the end of the post….if we want to be accepted for who we are and our beliefs we need to extend the same courtesy to people like Glenn Beck. It would be far worse for it to come out that large groups of church members disagreed with him to the point of hatred then for his rantings to stand alone.
Comment by corktree — August 28, 2009 @ 8:36 pm
I don’t believe it is ever a good thing to hate people. But I am deeply ashamed to be associated with Beck through our shared religion. Given the way I have seen him lie again and again on his broadcasts, make wild exaggerations (have you seen his piece about “Cash for Clunkers?” I’m not a big fan of that government program, but his report is filled with misleading information–and isn’t it funny that this person who likes to talk about this faith then takes the Lord’s name in vain several times), make sweeping generalizations, and generally stir up hate and contention with disturbing stunts like his immolation skit, I have absolutely no respect for the person. He may be a great person in private. But we cannot segment our lives; integrity in our professional life is just as important as in our private. If he wanted to promote real debate from a conservative perspective, I could respect that. But this sort of dishonesty and incitement of anger are not consistent with the Gospel of love.
Comment by Derek — August 28, 2009 @ 8:38 pm
BTW, yes, that does mean that we need to accept and embrace sincere people whose opinions differ from our own. That does not mean we should tolerate deceitful, hateful demagoguery.
Comment by Derek — August 28, 2009 @ 8:40 pm
@8
You seem very emotional about this. I can understand you’re personally attached to this man and I’d like to point out that I haven’t made any personal attacks on him. The specific incident I linked to was merely an easy event to pick on to point out that there seems to be a lack of proper due diligence.
But moving from the insignificant to the significant, my post at 6 comments on one of the (significant) issues where, if he is going to be scaring people, he should have had more research done to make sure what he said wasn’t already wrong before he even went to print.
As far as the good works he does, that’s commendable. But it is a red herring to the question of whether what he says is right or wrong. If David Icke gave all his money to charity, it wouldn’t make a lick of difference to the non-existence of lizard men. Another red herring, the number of death threats he gets has no bearing on whether his staff does shoddy fact checking.
On the other hand, if he is doing things such as insinuating that Obama is creating his own army, Obama wants censorship, Obama is a Socialist/Fascist, then he is doing real damage to those members of our electorate who find him credible simply because he’s on tv and he’s espousing their own worst fears/already held beliefs. That is the kind of damage that no amount of charitable work can undo.
Comment by barnetto — August 28, 2009 @ 8:46 pm
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Pingback by Glenn Beck An Embarrassment To Mormons–Perpetuates Harmful, Untrue Stereotypes « Messenger and Advocate — August 28, 2009 @ 8:48 pm
Reese #11
The key, Reese, I think is sincerity. I disagree with much of what is posted over here in fMh. But despite that disagreement, I never get the feeling that any of the posts are anything other than heartfelt and sincere. I can’t and don’t feel the same about anything Glenn Beck does. It’s all show, entertainment, outrageousness for its own sake. There’s a difference between honest disagreement in sincere beliefs and disgust for the clown who does and says offensive and outrageous things for money and entertainment value.
They come out of the woodwork. I experienced the same thing over on my post. He’s like a cult figure with his own groupie following. Nice post.
Comment by Guy Murray — August 28, 2009 @ 9:01 pm
When Stossel asked Beck why he decided to become a Mormon, Beck replied:
“I apologize, but guys will understand this. My wife is, like, hot, and she wouldn’t have sex with me until we got married. And she wouldn’t marry me unless we had a religion.”
Beck’s wife, Tania, confirmed it to Stossel: “He’s not joking.”
Comment by djinn — August 28, 2009 @ 9:09 pm
how embarrassing. (beck.)
but, like I’ve told my kids, if you truely believe in tolerance, you have to tolerate intolerant people.
Comment by venus — August 28, 2009 @ 9:14 pm
I know I’m not alone when I say this, but I really, really, really hate base their positions on lies. But here’s where I may be on my own: I feel a little guilty for that.
I do my best to avoid polemic and utterly false positions, I really don’t need more stress in my life, but its kind of hard to avoid. It has a knack for saying the most outrageous, offensive, off-the-wall garbage that infects all the rest of the media I actually do seek out.
How about you REALLY hate something when you figure out what the hell you’re talking about. Do some real research into what Glenn Beck actually said. I don’t agree with him on a lot of stuff nor do I watch much of his material, but the cites and references you provided are utterly tasteless and distorted out of context. I wont bother defending Beck’s positions, I don’t agree with many, but I will defend the man when this crap is spewed and spread about as if thats what he REALLY said.
Should I feel guilty for hating those that attempt to apologize for someone they have no need nor business to apologize for? Should I feel guilty for hating those that continue to spread lies around and malign the character of a person because they don’t agree with their arguments? Should I feel guilty for designating those that feed into those lies, distortions of truth and further feed the flame of idiocy WHEN i know they are quite capable of better and far greater things?
This post is dissapointing. Do your homework, check the facts, then write about the subject.
Comment by susanxil — August 28, 2009 @ 9:35 pm
Not only tolerate the intolerant..but pray that God opens their hearts and minds.
I’ve never listened or watched Mr.Beck..and as far as being half the man he is..well I’m a WOMAN and I don’t feel the need to change now..
And if he is spewing such nonsense he’s no different then O’Rielly..and quite frankly I ignore people like that..
Comment by Jillian — August 28, 2009 @ 9:35 pm
*sigh*
I don’t know what to think about Brother Beck. I do not condone his tactics, I really really struggle with fear-mongering of any type. But I’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt… that he believes he’s doing what he ought to do for his own integrity and beliefs. I don’t understand it, but I want to believe that about him.
I agree, hate is a strong word and we shouldn’t hate. He’s hard to avoid, but he’s easy to ignore.
Susanxil, it’s really hard to feel any sympathy for your position (or Brother Beck’s) when you take that tone when we are trying to have an intelligent and thoughtful discussion - you’re just proving the point.
Can someone give us a compelling reason to think that Brother Beck is doing anything but fear-mongering?
Comment by Enna — August 28, 2009 @ 9:50 pm
Aren’t Glenn Beck and Jon Stewart basically the same thing, just pandering/fear mongering/mocking/pot stirring in front of two opposite sides of the spectrum? They are both clowns with agendas. Reese, do you agree that both sides have their clowns?
Comment by cyril — August 28, 2009 @ 9:50 pm
I’m OK with Brother Beck. I find Glenn Beck totally despicable, if that makes sense.
I’m with Reese - I’m a big believer in “Big Tent Mormonism”. We let socialists and fascists into our Church all the time (wait, you don’t really think those members of the Church *OUTSIDE* the United States are Republican?). And to me, that means that ones personal political beliefs are *separate* from one’s religion.
I do as much bashing of Beck on another site as anyone — but I’m not attacking his religiosity, I’m attacking his personal political views and entertainment value. I would have no problem with him being my home teacher (if he left the political crap at the door).
Look at this way — He’s probably an awesome guy to watch Monday Night Football with or to take in a ballgame.
Comment by queuno — August 28, 2009 @ 10:00 pm
What does that have to do with anything, Cyril? Jon Stewart isn’t a member, so he has nothing to do with my concern about disagreeing with a Brother in the gospel.
But no, I don’t think they’re the same thing. Jon Stewart takes the piss out of anyone in power, but more importantly has never once asked for any action from his audience. And he doesn’t pretend to be a newsman. Even when people try to tell him he is, he refuses it and says he’s a comedian. Both sides have spewers of propaganda, but I always marvel at people who think that Jon Stewart’s lefty bias is equal to Glenn Beck/Rush Limbaugh. The difference by degree is staggering.
Comment by Reese Dixon — August 28, 2009 @ 10:10 pm
Re #23- there is one major difference. Jon Stewart is a political satirist and comedian whose show is on Comedy Central, and Glenn Beck is a political commentator whose show is on Fox (a cable news channel).
Comment by Starfoxy — August 28, 2009 @ 10:14 pm
re: 17
Very true, Guy. I have heard a number of people brushing off the tactics of Beck by insisting it’s just a show. I have a hard time seeing how insincere lies and hatemongering is any better than sincere hatemongering; if anything, I think it’s worse by the very fact that it is insincere. There is no pass for mean-spiritedness and dishonesty because you were trying to be entertaining or to make a buck (or even tens of millions of bucks). And far too many people within the mainstream culture of the LDS Church in the BofM Belt take him seriously.
re: 20
He really said those things. The clips to which people have linked (and I forgot to link to the immolation skit) have not been doctored; those are real clips of him saying and doing atrocious things, things which I have a hard time believing Jesus would approve.
re: 23
Interesting you would bring up Stewart. Stewart makes no pretense as to his role; he is an entertainer who gets laughs from mocking public figures and events (all sides). Beck, on the other hand, is masquerading as a serious political observer, a news figure. Therein lies the difference.
Had you made a comparison with someone like Randi Rhodes of Air America, or Thom Hartman, or Olberman your point may have been valid. That sort of outrageous balderdash that those people spew is every bit as toxic and worthy of shame as Beck, Savage, Rush, O’Reilly, et al.
Comment by Derek — August 28, 2009 @ 10:16 pm
I think Glenn Beck is the male Mormon heterosexual version of Rachel Maddow.
Comment by queuno — August 28, 2009 @ 10:20 pm
I get seriously upset with Glenn Beck, mostly because I have too many friends and family who take what he has to say way too seriously. One of them posted a link to a video of him asking questions (about Obama’s special advisers) and said basically, “This is scary stuff if it’s true, and if it isn’t, why doesn’t the president respond and refute it?”
Vada, I’m sure you’ve already thought of this, but the irony is that there are people who say this about Mormons: “I heard this outrageous thing about them, and if it’s false, why doesn’t their church refute it?”
Reese, I see two possibly separable issues in what you’ve brought up. The first is Beck’s beliefs. I agree with you that I’d like to see a big tent-type Mormonism. So if it’s going to be large enough to accommodate weird people like me, it’s definitely large enough to accommodate people like Glenn Beck. And as far as beliefs go, I think there are probably lots of Church members who think like he does. Heck, there are probably a fair number who think he’s not conservative enough. And I’m fine with that. I mean, it’s not my ideal circumstance because people bring up issues in Sunday School because they heard Beck or O’Reilly or Limbaugh bring them up. I guess, though, I mean that I’ve learned to live with this.
The second issue, though, is how Beck chooses to make a living selling his zany ideas and vilifying people who disagree with him. At least in my view, our shared religion does not mean I have to like this one bit. And I don’t.
Comment by Ziff — August 28, 2009 @ 10:22 pm
I have a really hard time with GB. Interestingly (for me) I was in a ward with a similar radio personality in a smaller market. In person, he is nice and entertaining to converse with. His on-air personality, though, seems pretty hateful to me. His wife (my friend) tells me I should just ignore the radio persona and focus on how he is in person. I have a hard time with this because it just seems so insincere. Disingenuous. And since both are, essentially, the face of our religion to much of their audience, problematic. I imagine GB is similar.
Comment by ESO — August 28, 2009 @ 10:23 pm
Hatred is such a negative emotion and destroys our peace of mind. Any person who lives with contention, whether they are a news “commentator” or his critics, needs to remember that followers of Christ demonstrate their love for him by their peaceful, merciful lives.
Comment by Carol — August 28, 2009 @ 10:24 pm
I am a total believer in big tent Mormonism, just some people’s portrayal of the religion bothers me.
I am sure some conservative members could say the same about me, but I am not famous, so I’m more harmless.
Comment by ESO — August 28, 2009 @ 10:26 pm
I don’t think it’s right to hate anyone. Jesus taught a gospel of love. I can’t stand Glenn Beck, I dislike what he stands for, but, I don’t hate him.
I also have a hard time with people who put on two faces, a work face and a not at work face. I think that some people feel that you can be dishonest at work because it’s for a good cause. I know a guy who was just recently baptized. This guy would give you the shirt off his back. He owns a few houses and lets less fortunate members and friends stay at them. But, when he’s at work, (and my dad works for him) he constantly lies and is underhanded with his business partners.
I can’t separate ones personal life from their business life, to do so is simply dishonest. I think that is the reason for the question “Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow man?” Does no one take that question seriously?
Comment by Ian Cook — August 28, 2009 @ 10:40 pm
And just so I can be totally honest here, my dad used to work for him.
Comment by Ian Cook — August 28, 2009 @ 10:41 pm
Um, I like Glenn Beck.
Comment by Stephanie — August 28, 2009 @ 10:53 pm
As for death threats, Mr Beck has no problem joking about killing
Comment by just call me cassandra — August 28, 2009 @ 10:57 pm
sorry link here
Comment by just call me cassandra — August 28, 2009 @ 10:58 pm
here maybe? I am having a doozy of a time lol
Comment by just call me cassandra — August 28, 2009 @ 10:59 pm
#34 So do I.
Comment by Kalola — August 28, 2009 @ 11:08 pm
@28
Heck yeah! Remember that time that lady called in and Rachel Maddow totally lost it and started screaming in the phone…oh wait. No, that was Glenn Beck only.
Okay, but how about the time she started crying on air? Oh, nope. Glenn Beck again.
Or how about the time she yelled over her guest, cut his mic, and argued with him as if she were a 5 year old? Drat, Beck again (scott levenson). I don’t watch a lot of tv, but I can’t say that I’ve ever seen Maddow be so rude to a guest she disagreed with. Maybe she has. I’ve been searching now for a while and, maybe I’m not using the right key words, but I got nothing.
So aside from style, substance, and superficial physical and sexual characteristics, they’re totally the same!
I’m not seeing the analogy. You might want to elaborate.
Comment by barnetto — August 28, 2009 @ 11:18 pm
I’ve banned myself from commenting on Politics and Gender issues on the net (yet here I am on FMH!) but I did want to say I loved the idea of being accepting of differing ideas in Big Tent Mormonism. Reese, thanks for such a valuable ideal to live up to.
Comment by Matt W. — August 28, 2009 @ 11:19 pm
I can’t separate ones personal life from their business life, to do so is simply dishonest. I think that is the reason for the question “Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow man?” Does no one take that question seriously?
Oh please. People work in all kinds of businesses that you might like, but we are commanded to look on a person’s heart, and if necessary, forgive them seventy times seven.
What if your bishop were (gasp) a health insurance salesman? Could you take that seriously? What if he were the sort of person who worked for a company that offshored American jobs?
What disappoints me about Beck is that he holds himself out as an entertainer, yet he does things like the TEA parties and the 9/12 group and stirs up trouble. But as a fellow church member, as long as he is fulfilling his covenants — and the judge in Zion given to grant him a temple recommend agrees — then I’m OK with him.
Comment by queuno — August 28, 2009 @ 11:20 pm
And at least he’s not selling Amway.
Comment by queuno — August 28, 2009 @ 11:20 pm
The sad fact is that so many people agree with him. So many just don’t bat an eye. I have more than a few LDS friends that absolutely agree with him, and woe unto the person that disagrees. I don’t hate him, I just feel sorry for him.
Comment by StarieNite — August 28, 2009 @ 11:32 pm
Queuno- I think you’re missing the point Ian was making. Say I work for a bank that has predatory lending policies in place. You’re saying that doesn’t necessarily make me an immoral person, and I agree*. Now lets say I lie to my clients, and fugde the numbers on their forms. Now I am an immoral person, and I can’t simply blow that off and say, “But that’s just at work, I’m honest everywhere else.”
If I personally am engaging in dishonest behavior then I am an immoral person whether or not I only do it at work.
*Though I would hope that most moral people would make reasonable efforts to work for honest companies, or push for changes within the companies they do work at.
Comment by Starfoxy — August 28, 2009 @ 11:47 pm
I’ve never watched or listened to an entire GB show. I’ve tried; as a lifelong conservative Republican I really want to understand his popularity. But I have found him, at least the public him, intolerable.
I don’t worry too much about the general public judging the church by GB’s attitude and behavior. I think there are enough high-profile Mormons of all stripes that anybody who cares realizes we have all kinds. I’m more concerned about his contribution to a toxic public square, where tolerance and respect are somehow now signs of weakness and capitulation.
Comment by J. Michael — August 29, 2009 @ 12:09 am
It’s actually funny how many Mormons in North Texas *don’t* know that GB is a Mormon. Maybe that’s a good thing.
As far as his career stacks up (47) - I guess I’d note that two of the most despicable real estate agents I know are active and prominent Mormons. Both of them have done more harm to families and the Church’s reputation than GB. I still think GB-the-radio-host is terrible, but I think he’s still the kind of guy I could have a beer* with. Seriously, couldn’t someone offer him a job as a baseball play-by-play guy and convince him to give up political talk? Maybe he could be a movie critic.
*-root
Comment by queuno — August 29, 2009 @ 1:01 am
I was thinking about this on the way home from work!!
I’m the first one to admit that CNN is on constant in our house and FoxNews is not allowed. I have my views. But I have tried to watch Beck’s show — I can’t, he’s so angry. So angry about so many things.
But I feel like I should like him because he’s a devout Mormon on TV. But then I realize I don’t necessarily like everyone in my ward, or every Mormon I’ve met, so I guess its OK to just roll my eyes and turn the channel.
I do hate that so many people are following him like puppies.
Comment by Natalie — August 29, 2009 @ 1:11 am
You may not like Glenn’s style or some of his off-the-wall comments, but many of the issues and questions he raises are certainly legitimate and should be examined.
Let’s deal with the alleged web of corruption he is exposing. If his arguments are off base, then refute them instead of making personal attacks.
Comment by Patti — August 29, 2009 @ 1:44 am
Natalie - interesting, I could say the same thing about MSNBC and Keith Olbermann.
And who are you to say that people are “following him like puppies.” That’s yet another example of putting down people instead of addressing their concerns.
Comment by Patti — August 29, 2009 @ 1:49 am
Patti, because people are following him like puppies.
I wouldn’t have a problem with Beck if wasn’t for the fact that my entire family, my husband’s entire family, all the people I grew up with, every single one of my cousins….were all obsessed. Every word that comes from his mouth to them is gospel. And its because he is mormon that they listen to him and think he is speaking truth with a capital T. I find it disturbing. They never question a word he says. Family gatherings have become long discussions about what brother Beck said on his most recent show. And they have all become so
.
And that would all be perfectly tolerable if he wasn’t completely bat shit crazy on his show. I mean, its so over the top, his claims are so outside the sphere of factual or rational, and he is constantly inciting people to action and to anger - how can anyone take him seriously and why should we actually bother ‘refuting his arguments’? That’s like having a serious debate with the tin-foil hat people.
I think its upsetting and irresponsible that he has been given such a venue where so many vulnerable minds are subject to his fear-based ranting. The entire country is in a crazy uproar right now at a time when serious public policy needs to be getting made. Instead of rational debate and a spirit of working together to find solutions for our future this tool bag (and others at his network) has people teabagging (snicker) and calling the president a nazi and bringing assault rifles to political debates. I don’t see that as honorable. And isn’t it convenient that it has made him an extremely wealthy man? (side note - I also find it disgusting that he says its because he converted to mormonism that he has been prosperous)
I don’t hate him personally, but I sure hate what he is doing.
Comment by julie — August 29, 2009 @ 2:22 am
oops sorry for the random quote, clicked the wrong button
Comment by julie — August 29, 2009 @ 2:23 am
I am somewhat conservative in my political leanings, and I usually enjoy listening to (conservative) talk radio, but I skip Beck’s show and tune over to whatever’s on NPR cause I don’t like him. Piece-o-cake.
Maybe I should be less vague. That preacher-vibe makes me cringe, I don’t agree with his point of view more than half of the time. But I don’t hate him and I think it’s alarming that he gets death threats. He is completely free in this political system to say all of what he says. And we are completely free to turn the station. And quit talking about him and give him free publicity. And certainly to ignore him if he inspires in us a passionate hatred. Some of you commenters who hate him WAY more than I dislike him, know way more about what he says than I do…why are you torturing yourselves? And, in the process, you increase his audience by at least one more person.
Beck by himself doesn’t worry me as much as the general low level of political discourse we have to endure to conduct our electoral processes. It’s one thing to dis Beck, but to stereotype all his listeners is not a step up. One of my dear aunts appears to be a fan of his, judging from the occasional e-mail she sends me, but I would never say of her that she follows him around like a puppy. She’s a smart compassionate woman who is struggling to live the gospel just like the rest of us. And in our political system, she is completely free to think what she will.
After browsing through these comments, I was inspired to dig out my copy of Scott Peck’s “A Different Drum” which I have been trying to find time to read ever since the cognitive dissonance of prop 8. It’s a book about people treating each other with respect in spite of their differences. It’s subtitled Community Making and Peace. I bought it because I read this quote from it: “The key to community is acceptance—in fact, the celebration—of our individual and cultural differences. It is also the key to world peace”
Comment by Mommie Dearest — August 29, 2009 @ 2:24 am
I like Glenn Beck. I like anyone who makes me think about issues and stirs me to passion- one way or another. Doesn’t mean I always agree with him, but I love that for me represents freedom of speech no matter how uncomfortable the speech may be. Does it matter what his religion is? I think the Kennedys are a poor example (forgive me) of “good” Catholics, yet I seperate them from Catholocism without issue.
Comment by spunky — August 29, 2009 @ 2:27 am
Here’s another great quote from Scott Peck’s Different Drum: “The truth will set you free—but first it will make you damn mad.”
And I don’t know what’s up with your time stamp. It’s not 2:24 am where I am.
Comment by Mommie Dearest — August 29, 2009 @ 2:29 am
Julie - please do tell me how his arguments are “crazy” and “outside the sphere of factual and rational?” He’s asking important questions, and the silence from the administration is deafening. Like I said, if he is wrong respond to the issues and show us why!
What do we need a civilian security force to protect us from?
Why does he have radical Marxist revolutionaires as close advisors? Did he know of their pasts?
How can we possibly afford this record increase in spending in light of the record deficits piling up?
Instead, genuine concerns are brushed aside because you deem them to come from “tin-foil-people.”
Comment by Patti — August 29, 2009 @ 3:06 am
Patti, this thread is not here to argue the specific points of brother Beck’s doctrine, I am not going to get into a political debate with you just so I can point out the obvious. Genuine concerns they may be, but that doesn’t make them rational or based in reality. I encourage you to do some research around the interwebs and see if you can find answers to your questions.
Comment by julie — August 29, 2009 @ 3:16 am
Julie - you made the assertions that Glenn Beck’s arguments are “crazy.” I’m just asking that you back it up substantively. Which of the concerns he raises are irrational? The questions I listed are just a few of the many he has posed. The administrations silence on these issues is disturbing. If he’s wrong, show me how! If his facts are accurate, tell me why we shouldn’t be concerned!
My whole point is that instead of addressing the issues, the people asking them are blown off and ridiculed out of hand.
Comment by Patti — August 29, 2009 @ 3:31 am
@38: The joke you’re talking about was during a skit. But the biggest difference is that the death threats to Glenn are not jokes.
@42: How would you react if thousands of people called you and asked you the same question that was 180 degrees wrong because none of them would listen to you, even the one talking to you on the phone? BTW: What’s wrong with crying?
A lot of you talk about his hatemongering and fearmongering, and in the same breath you say you don’t watch him at all. Where are you getting your information? When you can point to some of this through specific things on his show rather than out of context fodder from hate blogs, then I’ll respond.
Consider this though. Hate is driven through Satan. Satan isn’t going to infuse people to hate those who help him. Since the world has gone to hell and all of a sudden there is massive amount of hate aimed at Beck, especially from people with no faith, doesn’t it stand to reason that maybe there is more to the picture here?
Comment by Me — August 29, 2009 @ 3:31 am
I normally ignore many of the “talking heads” out there in commentary land. I do listen to Dave Ross, and enjoy his comments.
Remember Evan Mecham? He was LDS, and said some things that were outrageous.
Michael Savage seems to know about Autism drugs that don’t even exist right now.
I remember a clip of Phil Donahue telling one of his guest to shut up.
So, yes, there’s some jerky acting commentators out there.
Comment by Mike H. — August 29, 2009 @ 3:33 am
This is what I mean by crazy. Try following that “logic” and see where it takes you.
Because you (repeating Glenn Beck) use incendiary phrasing and hyperbole like “radical marxist revolutionaries” that makes people blow you off and ridicule you out of hand. But really, that is not what this thread is about so why don’t we end this little threadjack? The internet is at your fingertips to find all the answers you ever wanted and more.
Comment by julie — August 29, 2009 @ 3:47 am
Mike- go to bed.
If I had to choose between two ends, I’ll take Beck’s zaniness over Michael Moore’s documentaries. Their religion and how they reconcile their personal views are between them and God- which is what I like to think we’re doing here too…leaving it to God to breech the dichotomy.
There are times when I’m sitting in church and feeling like a piece of crap because the only sincere and honest thing to do some days would be to walk out. But I’ve got this love/hate thing going, jumbled up with relationships I treasure, and I don’t know what to do with it.
Maybe it’s the same with Glenn and his politics. Maybe it’s the same for a lot of us. I just can’t point the finger, ’cause it’s pointing back at me.
So,
Comment by Kimberly — August 29, 2009 @ 4:29 am
Reese — I love Glenn Beck. I don’t watch his show very much, and I don’t listen to him on the radio much — I find him a bit over-the-top for my tastes, and I disagree with some of his basic points. I also love Harry Reid, although I disagree with him profoundly about quite a number of issues, and not a few choices he’s made regarding creating policy. When it comes to politics (and other things, like, maybe, religion), there are people you like, people you trust, and people you agree with. Each of those groups has overlaps with the others, and rare and wonderful are the people who fit all three, but the important aspect of that is remembering that being in one group does not necessarily mean membership in any or all of the others.
Trusting Glenn because he’s Mormon would require trusting Harry because he’s also Mormon. And vice versa. Both of which strike me as dumb.
Maybe it helps to understand that our opinions and political philosophies aren’t important, and neither is agreeing or disagreeing about them. Being a feminist Mormon, a liberal Mormon, a conservative Mormon, a white Mormon, a black Mormon, or whatever other adjective you want to put on Mormon means that being Mormon unites us more than whatever the other adjectives might tend to divide us. When that gets easier, then we can take that idea the next step, and start seeing and treating all people as brothers and sisters, understanding that they won’t likely respond in kind all the time.
20 — That particular program edited out the rest of his conversion story. Youtube has several other versions that tell the rest of the story, and I think they hold up quite well. If you can get through the part where he says “I want what he’s got” without a lump in your throat, I’ll have concerns that your heart is just too hard.
Comment by Blain — August 29, 2009 @ 4:41 am
What Beck does is not journalism or anything remotely connected to citizenship. It is hate speech, pure and simple. He also manages to include something in his rants that is about sex in a very creepy way. I personally cut him no slack because he’s a Mormon. I wouldn’t want my kids listening to him, although I would like to think they’re smart enough to see him for what he is. I’m embarassed that he’s a member of the church. I can’t imagine why anyone who watches him who is not LDS would ever want to become LDS…except, according to Beck, for the hot women.
Comment by Aaron — August 29, 2009 @ 5:56 am
He’ll strut and fret his hour upon the stage and then, thank God, will be heard no more. His rants are tales told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Ignore him.
Comment by Mark B. — August 29, 2009 @ 7:27 am
I’ve watched GB, not that I do anymore. Crazy barely covers it. Just b/c he gives to people in his personal life does not make him a truly good person, if his work time is spent spouting racist, fear mongering, hate inspiring, statements consistently. He makes no sense and often contradicts himself. Being a Democrat or Republican has nothing to do with it. He goes around blabbering about things with no real facts to back them up.
Comment by lds — August 29, 2009 @ 7:57 am
No doubt there is a mixed reaction to Beck as this post and comments clearly show.
I only watch his program a few times a week so I don’t keep up with everything he is saying, but the more I listen to him the more sense he is making. I especially like the questions he is asking. His questions deserve to be taken seriously.
I remember when Pres. Kennedy started talking about Viet Nam. No big deal, I thought. Then he sent “military advisers”. The next thing I knew I was drafted and found myself in a war. Everyone knows the rest of the story.
I agree with Beck when he says the Constitution of the US is the source of the freedoms we enjoy and that it is in grave danger of “hanging by a thread”.
Comment by Jared — August 29, 2009 @ 8:16 am
I do not have time to read through the comments right now (am on a 3-day driving trek from Philadelphia to Provo) but AMEN, SISTER! Except I have no guilt. I hate him unabashedly and unapologetically. Mormon or not. Possibly the fact that he’s Mormon makes me hate him more. Because everyone else thinks that makes him Awesome. And he’s not.
Comment by Alyssa — August 29, 2009 @ 8:37 am
re: 51
Patti, many of his statements are refuted again and again. Some, like the things he said about the fire victims or the 9/11 families or his advocacy of murdering Nancy Pelosi, cannot be refuted, only condemned.
Someone willing to say such irresponsible, horrid things (not to mention so many dishonest things) obviously has nothing meaningful to contribute to the political discussion, and should dismissed outright from the debate.
re: 61
So you think Jesus is fine about joking about killing people? Yes, Beck has gotten death threats, which is terrible. I wonder how many death threats Nancy Pelosi gets?
Yes, hate is driven through Satan. Beck’s inflammatory language incites hate towards the things he lies about. As to the hate directed at Beck, perhaps it is as simple as hate begetting hate?
re: 69
Sure, Kennedy did deceptive things to get us involved in an immoral war. And yet Beck wholeheartedly supported the Iraq War. So add hypocrisy to the list of reasons to dismiss Beck’s on-air persona as entirely irrelevant.
Comment by Derek — August 29, 2009 @ 8:52 am
re: 70
Be careful; hate does more to harm the hater than the person they hate. Oppose what he stands for in his professional life, certainly, but try to maintain some empathy for the man, if only for your own emotional and spiritual health.
Comment by Derek — August 29, 2009 @ 9:00 am
Oh, I think he’s dreadful. I wouldn’t care about him at all except that he’s Mormon and so I cringe every time he talks, wishing he would stop making my beloved religion look bad.
Comment by Katie P. — August 29, 2009 @ 9:25 am
Hate to say it, google is not a fact search. While I may disagree with the man I can step back enough to realize that sometimes he has a point. Sometimes.
I so hate the fact that people have to be so vehimently opposed to one anothers view points that they automaticatly become hateful and then throw out everything that person says. I may not like Nancy Polosi but I know that sometimes the woman has a point.
Sad thing is, the hatefulness is causing a rift in this country that I worry may never be able to be healed. If the Republicans and Democrates, Liberals and Conservatives continue on this track of stirring up hate against each other eventually it will lead to major violence. I hope never like what they have seen in Ireland between the religions there, but just like Ireland the disagreement is idiology and for some reason the majority of the people somehow have a hard time seeing that the “other side” are people with good things about them too. In our case both sides have what is best for the country at their heart, they just fully disagree on how to solve things.
Please don’t propogate the hate.
Comment by April — August 29, 2009 @ 9:31 am
Let’s face it Beck and I do not see eye to eye, when I listen to him I am not even sure we are looking at the same planet, BUT that wasn’t what your post was about to me at all. The part of your post that resonated with me was how big is the box of Mormonism? Who can fit into this box and who doesn’t? I have come to terms with one type of Mormonism that I was raised with. That type of Mormonism didn’t work for me. I am left with a lot of unanswered questions. I have had a friend tell me over and over that there are many ways to be Mormon. We don’t all have to be a clone in our spirituality. If she is right this is a real gift from God. If God can accept me at one end and Beck at the other and love us both inspite of our imperfections and our gifts than he really is a miraculous God.
Comment by kandi and salt — August 29, 2009 @ 9:38 am
Julie - look into the backgrounds of Obama czars/special advisors like Van Jones, Mark Lloyd, John P. Holdren. Tell me how they don’t fit the description of “radical revolutionaries.” Does it seriously not bother you what these individuals have espoused and that they have the President’s ear?
Comment by Patti — August 29, 2009 @ 9:38 am
@ Patti, 58
On your first point, refer back to my comment at 6. AmeriCorp is hardly Obama’s “army”. Heck, Michelle Bachman’s son is in Americorp (as part of Teach for America).
On your second point I had to look up what you were referring to. For the sake of argument, let’s pretend you were a mormon convert. You would rightly be annoyed with me if I ignored your opinions because you used to be something else (full disclosure, I said it a while ago but just to reiterate, I read this blog because you guys are awesome but I’m not mormon). The same appears to be true of Van Jones since, whatever he used to be, he now writes in his book “The Green Collar Economy” the following:
He has been a died in the wool capitalist for a while now. Beck (as of an August 24th show) was still calling him an avowed communist. Again, Beck needs better fact checkers (because he would have also noted that Van Jones has no criminal record. Nada. He was falsely arrested once while acting as a monitor after the Rodney King and the city was forced to dole out financial compensation.)
To your third point. That’s a good point. I said it myself in comment 6. If Glenn Beck’s program was all like that I wouldn’t have any problems with him. He could cry and yell all day and I wouldn’t bat an eye if all he was doing was looking out for our interests. But repeatedly spreading false information does nothing to help our interests.
Patti, one more thing before I head off for the day, the points you’re bringing up are verbatim what Glenn Beck has said. What do you read or listen to outside the conservative media? Do you ever actively search for rebuttals to make sure your points are as strong as you think? These are some of the tools all of us, regardless of our political beliefs, should engage in. It sharpens our critical thinking skills and gives us a less myopic view of the world.
Comment by barnetto — August 29, 2009 @ 9:54 am
Beck just talks without a filter it seems, almost like listening to NPR some times.
Guess I should listen to Beck, it just isn’t convenient, so I’ve only gotten a total of five minutes of Beck, whereas I get 30-40 or more minutes of NPR a day.
Anyway, talk shows are talk shows and their hosts tend to slide towards what drives positive feedback.
Comment by Stephen M (Ethesis) — August 29, 2009 @ 10:11 am
I posted and then immediately saw Patti’s 76 above my 77.
I suggest putting the advice in my final paragraph in 77 to use. If you seriously can’t find contrarian sources about the two people, Holdren and Lloyd, that I didn’t cover in 77 then this evening I will look it up for you.
Play your own devil’s advocate and if, in weighing the facts and arguments against each other, you find they’re still radical marxists then, despite the fact that I’ll still disagree with you, I will have greater respect for you if you’ve come by your opinions through real deliberation instead of uncritically imbibing everything Glenn et al say.
Comment by barnetto — August 29, 2009 @ 10:12 am
As a fellow member of the church, I take bigger issue with Beck’s commercialization of his conversion story (I saw it on sale at Deseret Book) than any of his political positions. It’s a wonderful story, I’m deeply troubled that someone would hawk those types of experiences for $$$$. Hopefully there’s something I don’t know and all the proceeds are going to the church’s humanitarian aid program or another good cause…
Comment by Euclid — August 29, 2009 @ 10:16 am
It doesn’t take long listening to Beck and Hannity to see who the real Fascist are. They want the one party total control government as long as it is people that think like them. Everybody else is evil
Comment by Jerry — August 29, 2009 @ 10:19 am
re: 74
Sure, Beck does occasionally make cogent or relevant points. But is it worth wading through all the filth and hate just to try to unearth those points, exposing ourselves to the hate, lies, and exaggerations in the process? I hardly think so. Society would be better off rejecting all those of all sides who prefer to work through hate and lies so that the legitimate debate can be carried out on a civil and rational level.
That does not mean we should stone Glenn Beck. He is still a human being, perhaps a very decent one outside of his pundit role and on-air tirades. God will judge his heart, not us.
Comment by Derek — August 29, 2009 @ 10:19 am
I think Vitriol, lies and hate spewed over the airwaves is bad for the country.
I think the religion or the personal habits of the person doing the spewing are irrelevant.
Demonizing opponents preclude compromise or thought or discussion and all are critical to a functioning democracy.
Whatever happened to “hate the sin, love the sinner?”
Comment by Betty Jo — August 29, 2009 @ 10:20 am
I like Glenn Beck. He does his job well. Now I am not into politics at all so I really have no feelings on his particular views, but his job is to stir up debate and controversy. Clearly he does that well. Both sides of the fence have these types of people. They are just doing their jobs.
I have attended a singles conference where he spoke. He is a kind and gracious and humble human being. I was very impressed with who he is. But I can keep that separate from what he does for a living.
Comment by StillConfused — August 29, 2009 @ 10:21 am
re: 78
I’m confused. Are you suggesting NPR and Beck are two sides of the same coin, that NPR uses the same methods and style as Beck?
Comment by Derek — August 29, 2009 @ 10:23 am
Great post Reese! It really has me thinking, though not particularly about Beck whom I disagree politically, but more about the ‘big tent’ theory. I like the concept, but the application is proving quite difficult. Fundamentally, I really am struggling to understand how we share the common principles of the gospel and yet come to distinctly different views about life and politics. I know life experiences shape our perception (they have mine), but so does the gospel and our understanding of God, and yet I find myself with drastically different life and political views than other members of the church. I guess I am still struggling to reconcile the religious beliefs of Beck (or his followers) and politics. How can we separate the man (or anyone) from their actions? How can we both believe in the same Heavenly Father, the same atonement and come to such different conclusions about how we treat our fellow man?
Obviously I am still working through this ‘big tent’ concept, but I admit that I am finding it quite difficult. I am tired of being the ‘liberal’ outcast at church the one place I thought was inclusive. At times I feel that the tent is only for those with the ‘right’ politics. Personally, I am tired of being told I am a socialist (I only wish) and that ‘my President’ is the anti-christ. Perhaps you can’t separate religious faith and politics…perhaps the ‘tent’ is smaller than I expected, but I certainly hope not.
Comment by Franz — August 29, 2009 @ 10:42 am
I think this whole question is very much like things I’ve seen happen on forums online.
First, it’s only pop culture. Pop culture is not important. Thinking that it is important is a mistake. It’s a tempest in a teapot.
Second, Glenn Beck is obviously just a troll. He does whatever it takes to get people all stirred up both for and against what he’s saying, then he surely snickers offstage at how silly we all look in our outrage.
Third, opposing him just abets him. It hijacks the real debate and causes it to devolve into his silliness and idiocy. Because it’s extreme and offensive, it takes over the public forum so that there’s no longer room for serious consideration of the ideas on any side.
Fourth, nobody has come up with a way to successfully combat trolls online other than having the moderators ban them. Since pop culture doesn’t have moderators, the best we can do is just to use our personal internal “ignore” buttons on him. Or possibly look for new venues where he and his trolling ideas aren’t present.
I don’t believe in censorship, but inciting violence and making death threats are still against the law. He should be prosecuted to the extent he does that.
Thank goodness I don’t feel responsible for what all 13 million Mormons do! Simply being responsible for what *I* do is hard enough. In addition, I do occasionally try not to cringe at what 15 of the very best of them do. That’s as far as I’m willing to take it. =)
Comment by Tatiana — August 29, 2009 @ 10:57 am
Reese, great post and great questions. It’s interesting to note that most of the post are about reconciliation of others views. It isn’t always easy, but very worth it! I’m not sure that this will be resolved on this post, but very good questions.
Comment by Sunshine — August 29, 2009 @ 11:44 am
re: 86
As much as the mainstream of US (or at least Utah) Mormon culture likes to try to exclude us, there absolutely is room for us within the Gospel. And while it can seem lonely in some locals, believe me, there are more of us than you might think.
Comment by Derek — August 29, 2009 @ 12:11 pm
As a student of the Book of Mormon I watch what is happening in the Gentile nations. This is especially true for the United States.
Those who are of like mind are aware of the Lord’s promises and warnings to the Gentiles.
As I see things, America has many, many problems and some of them come from the fact that so many have rejected the Book of Mormon and the testimony of Joseph Smith, and the prophets.
With that said, I feel that there is much that is good and worthy, so I am hopeful that the Lord will continue to prosper and bless America and the rest of the Gentile nations.
I pay attention to Glenn Beck and others along the political spectrum and try to stay informed. With Beck, as well as others, I look pass what I don’t like and try to understand what their real motive is. With Beck I don’t perceive him as a phony, in it for money and glory. I think he is sincere. However, sincere isn’t the only criteria to measure him by. He is pro Constitution, pro family, pro religion, pro life, pro small government, and pro many other things that count.
Why in the world would he join the Mormon church unless he is sincere. For a man in his position I don’t think being a Mormon is the best part of his resume as far as others are concerned. Mitt Romney’s presidential ambitions in the last election highlighted that fact.
Comment by Jared — August 29, 2009 @ 12:15 pm
#61 “Jokes” like that don’t belong on “serious” news channel that claim to be “fair and balanced”. Obviously he is a polarizing figure with a rabid fan base. The sudden presence of these fans on this site being case in point. See they like his “jokes” and see them as “thought-provoking”. So what thoughts is he provoking? That we should violently oppose those we disagree with? So how could he be surprised when violent threats are made against him?
What will happen when one of our democraticaly elected officials is assassinated by one of his fans who quotes him and follows his lead? Will it be his fault? well no, but will his rhetoric be a contributing factor? Sure. He is a charismatic looney, and things have been done in the past in the name of charismatic looneys that are loathsome, both on the left and the right.
He sows anger and contention and calls it a joke and airs it on a “news” channel. He reaps what he sows in death threats. Right or wrong (and threatening someones life is always wrong.)
Comment by just call me cassandra — August 29, 2009 @ 12:35 pm
re: 90
So Beck sincerely believes that Nancy Pelosi should be murdered, that the people threatened by the So Cal fires should have died, and that the Muslims should be assumed to have terrorist convictions and targeted for concentration camps?
Comment by Derek — August 29, 2009 @ 12:48 pm
I like Glenn Beck okay. I have watched his show occasionally and find it interesting. I don’t agree with him all the time, but I tend to be conservative so he simply seems dramatic and over the top and occasionally extreme rather than fearmongering and full of hate.
I don’t know any Mormons who are obsessed with him. No one I know talks about him much, if ever. I don’t see a problem with him being Mormon.
He talks about politics and our country. Why isn’t it ok for some Mormons to think that the government is doing a good job at one thing, and some Mormons to think the government should be doing something else entirely? Or some Mormons to think spending money in one way is a good decision and some Mormons to think that spending money in that way is bad for our country?
Comment by jks — August 29, 2009 @ 1:18 pm
#92 Derek–
I’ve never heard him say anything like that. The other day I heard him tell his audience to be active in asking questions, without fear, but to do so with kindness and civility.
Comment by Jared — August 29, 2009 @ 1:25 pm
#76 nope, i prefer their insight to that of corporate money grabbers like Dick Cheney and his torture loving, CIA outing buddies…
Comment by just call me cassandra — August 29, 2009 @ 1:36 pm
re: 93
Certainly it is okay for some Mormons to think conservatively (though many don’t accord we liberal Mormons a similar privilege to think liberally). It is also okay for those Mormons to promote those beliefs in civil discourse, and to pose thought provoking questions.
What doesn’t seem okay in the context of the Gospel is the spreading of misinformation and of inflammatory, contention-filled rhetoric.
re: 94
There have been quite a number of links here showing him doing exactly those things.
It’s too bad he doesn’t take his own advice.
Comment by Derek — August 29, 2009 @ 1:38 pm
What is the conundrum? He is an entertainer who happens to be LDS. Are Harry Reid and Orin Hatch any more or less of a conundrum?
Today’s “news” is no longer news. The person giving the news is trying to be part of it instead of reporting it. S/he wants to push their agenda at the cost of doing their job. Bernard Shaw has given some corporate speeches on the matter.
Comment by ... — August 29, 2009 @ 1:54 pm
also #94 Beck has lost MANY sponsors sponsors of his show, including walmart. So I am most positive that his new “lets play nice” attitude can be contributed to this. Regardless of how many viewers he has, even Fox will let him go if he continues to alienate his their cash flow…
Comment by just call me cassandra — August 29, 2009 @ 1:58 pm
Derek–
I followed one of the links above where it says: Threatened Muslims with concentration camps…
I went to the link and found the quote below. No where does he say Muslims should be in concentration camps.
It was just a few years ago that all the Japanese were put into camps, some in Utah, after Pearl Harbor was bombed.
What Glenn clearly said was that if things get rough then the same thing could happen again.
Let’s be fair with Beck.
“All you Muslims who have sat on your frickin’ hands the whole time and have not been marching in the streets and have not been saying, ‘Hey, you know what? There are good Muslims and bad Muslims. We need to be the first ones in the recruitment office lining up to shoot the bad Muslims in the head.’ I’m telling you, with God as my witness… human beings are not strong enough, unfortunately, to restrain themselves from putting up razor wire and putting you on one side of it. When things—when people become hungry, when people see that their way of life is on the edge of being over, they will put razor wire up and just based on the way you look or just based on your religion, they will round you up. Is that wrong? Oh my gosh, it is Nazi, World War II wrong, but society has proved it time and time again: It will happen.”
Comment by Jared — August 29, 2009 @ 1:58 pm
jared-
I don’t think you are stupid, but your last comment is naive. What Glenn Beck is doing ( whether he knows it or not) is introducing the idea of Muslim internment camps into the general sphere.
His comment is ludicrous about the “good Muslims” being the first to line up to shoot the “bad Muslims”. Good Muslims are conscientious objectors. duh. I doubt that most of the population know anything about the religious ideals of Islam. It seems Mr. Beck doesn’t. But people think he does. He is on TV. He is on a news channel (nonfiction). So why not believe him?
Comment by just call me cassandra — August 29, 2009 @ 2:11 pm
Okay, so instead he was advocating the summary execution of “bad Muslims,” that we should be eager to do so. Much better. Is that very Christian?
What about the talk about assassinating Pelosi?
Comment by Derek — August 29, 2009 @ 2:12 pm
“If I want to be accepted as a Mormon Feminist”
I’m curious about how you imagine a patently anti-feminist organization with an anti-feminist belief system to accept your feminism?
Comment by barmy stoat — August 29, 2009 @ 2:17 pm
@99
Let’s be more fair to Beck. Here’s the complete transcript:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0609/05/gb.01.html
So Glenn, on the basis of a single Muslim Beauty pageant queen (picture mrs teen south carolina) extrapolates out and characterizes the muslim community largely as sympathizing with the reasons muslims become terrorists.
On this incorrect basis, he goes on to say if Muslims will turn themselves around–which he says is very unlikely, they’re not like our good solid Japanese citizens– then it is their fault that they will end up in concentration camps.
So let’s get this straight. Glenn Beck says he can’t control people and the fears that will lead to Muslims going into concentration camps, but then he actively promotes the idea that when it happens they will deserve it because, based on a single data point, he thinks the muslim community is full of terrorist sympathizers.
I’d say in the US that simply isn’t true. Our Muslims are well integrated into our society.
Comment by barnetto — August 29, 2009 @ 2:41 pm
#100 …cassandra
I disagree.
From what little I know about Beck he is not trying to inspire hate against anyone. I think he goes over the top in his choice of words, but I think you are reading between the lines and in so doing are putting words in his mouth.
Another point, not all “good” Muslims are conscientious objectors. To suggest that is naive.
In World War II the Japanese formed a unit, the442nd Regimental Combat Team. Even though many of their families were in internment camps they voluntarily joined the army and fought in Europe. They did this because they were patriotic Americans.
Though Beck didn’t mention this, maybe it was in the back of his mind.
#101 Derek–
Good Christians are fighting a war in Afghanistan as I we write.
Re: Pelosi. I haven’t seen the link for that one.
Reminder: I’m not assuming the role of a defender for Beck. I am however, pointing out errors. He never said, what you said he said in #92.
Comment by Jared — August 29, 2009 @ 3:03 pm
@104
Here’s your link.
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/glenn-beck-jokes-about-putting-poiso
Olbermann had a similar incident where he joked, if he were in dancing with the stars against Rush, that he’d cut his hamstrings. But then immediately afterwards said it was a terrible joke that he had meant to use to highlight his own character flaws but it was still in poor taste and he retracted it and said he was sorry. *Immediately* afterwards. And that wasn’t even a joke about killing someone.
In the right context, you can make a funny joke, probably, about horribly mutilating or killing someone. I’m not saying you can’t. But generally it shouldn’t be attempted.
Comment by barnetto — August 29, 2009 @ 3:17 pm
Jared,
being Japanese and being Muslim are two completely different things. Muslim is a religious term, Japanese, geographical. Islam teaches at its core to be peaceful and put down the implements of war. In a pop culture way think Muhammad Ali…
The 3 main religious beliefs in Japan are Shinto, Buddhism, and Christianity, none of which have specific edicts against war. Unlike Islam.
I can’t stand when someone has set in stone opinions of things they know so very little about…
Please try reading the Koran, specifically 22:39-40 and Surah 2:190-192, 47:4, 60:8. Any warfare that entails killing of noncombatants is forbidden. Gone are the days where the fields of war remain secluded. Civilian casualty is a transgression.
Comment by just call me cassandra — August 29, 2009 @ 3:25 pm
#105 barnetto–
Thanks for the link. I just watched it.
In my opinion, antics like that hurt his credibility. I don’t like it, but he wasn’t serious.
I hope that he catches on that he needs to be more precise and wise in his remarks, otherwise, he will be a shooting star, brought down by his own foolishness.
That said, the questions he is currently asking, based on what appears to be credible research, deserve to be answered.
I’m watching, and keeping an open mind, but he could lose me if he isn’t careful.
Comment by Jared — August 29, 2009 @ 3:29 pm
Derek, You know, I really like you, but I totally disagree with your 101. In fact, you make it sound as though he runs his own little cult and if he is talking about Muslims we should go out and shoot them all. C’mon, I know you are smarter than that. I don’t really care if you like him or not, but stick with the facts and stop interpreting them.
Now, I do believe he called the President a racist and I happen to disagree with him. I guess I just don’t get what the hub bub is all about. People say stupid things all the time, make mistakes and talk before they think about it but it doesn’t mean they are becoming the next Hitler… and guess what? Liberals do it too *GASP*… I know, shocking that liberals would dare make mistakes. Let’s hang those fools out to dry!
It’s just stupid, like him… don’t like him… get over it!
Comment by Sunshine — August 29, 2009 @ 3:36 pm
#106…cassandra
I don’t know a great deal about the Koran, but I have lived long enough to conclude that there are very few true conscientious objectors in any culture.
I was in Germany when the 6 day war started in Israel. I was put on stand by. Meaning, get ready. The war ended very quickly so I didn’t have to fo. But I learned a lot about that part of the world having lived during the 1950 and 60’s. I’ve been to the Holy Land and mingled enough to have a general feel for the tensions that exist there.
I learned a little bit about Muslims and war from that experience. The Koran may say one thing, but you and I both know they have no difficulty getting men and women to fight for their cause.
Comment by Jared — August 29, 2009 @ 3:45 pm
cassandra - In countries where muslim illiteracy is over 80%, few believers can read the Koran. (I read the Koran in 2001 because I tired of hearing people on television tell me what was in it.) Regardless of what is written in the Koran, if you cannot read it, you will believe what you are told it says.
Comment by ... — August 29, 2009 @ 3:52 pm
I don’t hate him, but I refuse to stay in the room if he’s on TV. The guy is nuckin’ futs.
Comment by Chelsea — August 29, 2009 @ 4:22 pm
Glen Beck is that crazy guy at church who gets up and bares his testimony, cries, says nutty stuff and makes everyone cringe.
Someone sent me an email one time where he went on for paragraphs about how French people stink. What the? He has no idea what the message of the song “Love One Another” is supposed to mean when it comes to people who don’t believe right wing “causes” the same as he does. Glen Beck doesn’t deserve a platform for his crazy diatribes. Glen Beck needs to be ignored.
Comment by Cid — August 29, 2009 @ 4:49 pm
this will be my last post on this side note:
Glenn Beck was not speaking of Muslims living in Native lands. He was talking about American Muslims (most of which can read).
My main point being: You can’t blame “good Muslims” with the actions of “bad Muslims”. It is not their responsibility to be “in the recruitment office lining up to shoot the bad Muslims in the head.”. That’s just nutty junk.
Comment by just call me cassandra — August 29, 2009 @ 4:55 pm
#86 I agree with your post completely. I am shocked that believes in Christ can be so unChristlike. I am SO tired of being called a socialist (because I think health care is of more of a right to all, than a privilege for the wealthy or those who work at the right business). Oh and the anti-Christ, people who live by me actually believe that crap. I try to keep my mouth shut at church functions, because l know I can’t change their mind and I am tired of them trying to change mine. I to am holding out for the big tent theory.
Comment by kandi and salt — August 29, 2009 @ 5:28 pm
re: 104
Yes, there are good Christians fighting. There is a difference between being willing to fight and being eager to kill.
re: 108
I was referring to the facts, his words, not my own. And the clip in which he talked about assassinating Pelosi is not interpretation either, absolutely his own creation.
The bottom line is that someone willing to do and say such hateful things cannot be trusted to make any meaningful contribution to the political discussion.
Comment by Derek — August 29, 2009 @ 5:32 pm
…cassandra–
I enjoyed the exchange.
Comment by Jared — August 29, 2009 @ 5:32 pm
Derek–
We’ve had an informative exchange. Take care.:D
Comment by Jared — August 29, 2009 @ 5:35 pm
Reese, very predictable. Your problem with Beck is not his membership in the church. Be honest at least.
Comment by cyril — August 29, 2009 @ 7:51 pm
As a member of the church living in Canada . it has become very embarrasing to have him known as a member of the church. There are many people who take it for granted that all members think like that. I gringe when i hear him and cann’t turn him off vast enough.
Comment by lina — August 29, 2009 @ 9:18 pm
I think that we have to welcome everyone in, no matter their non-religious beliefs. The 12th article of faith says, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.” If people are law-abiding citizens — even those who lead protests, wield petitions outside of WalMart to change laws, sit on opposing sides of the aisle in Congress, or are from other countries with different political systems, then we should respect their views.
Where I draw my line is when people start yelling. That’s why I don’t watch news programs at my parents’ house (we don’t have television here). I do not believe that anyone was ever convinced to change their stance during a yelling match. I’m particularly offended when someone introduces their *guest* and then speaks to them in a raised (or yelling) voice, won’t let them finish sentances, and generally mistreats them.
When I know that a member of my congregation (locally or nationally) acts in such a horrifying way, it pains me. I cringe a bit and hope that people aren’t paying attention to what church they go to.
Comment by Erin — August 29, 2009 @ 9:26 pm
I haven’t been by this blog in months because of the biased treatment of Sarah Palin. I wrote this blog off as Liberal Angry Mormon Women- having nothing to do with Feminism.
This is my opinion. Do I hate those that share their opinions which I deem decidedly off base? Am I embarrassed that members of my faith forget the most basic of teachings, that of love thy neighbor as thy self?
Do I sit high and mighty and tell myself “They don’t count”?
Or do I live by the most basic of teachings, that of judge not lest ye be judged?
Who am I to tell people that Harry Reid doesn’t count? That the authors of this blog don’t count? Who am I to sit in judgement?
Even God doesn’t judge a man until his life has ended.
And as a side note: at least Glenn Beck doesn’t call his show Conservative MORMON talk show host.
Comment by kory — August 29, 2009 @ 9:53 pm
As a Mormon Democrat, I am used to my political views differing from many, probably most, members of the Church. I try my best to respect the Rebulican door greeter, the conservative YW leader, the gun happy bishopric member. I have a difficult time respecting someone who instills hate and fear into ignorant listeners, whether they are Mormon or not. I pity those ignorant listeners who have nothing more to spew from their mouths than the disgusting rhetoric of Glenn Beck. They obviously are not educated. I have come to understand that devout followers of Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh have not done their homework on social issues, they lean on the harmful words of radio entertainers for their information. I find this sad and pathetic. I feel sorry for the brother who stood up in Sacrament meeting last week and spoke on harmful media. He said we should be careful what types of media we allow in our home, and I quote, “except for Glenn Beck, of course”. The congregation showed their admiration for Beck by breaking out into an obnoxious cackle. I also feel sorry for our Sunday School teacher who seems to be talking at the RNC rather than teaching the Gospel. I suppose it is best to channel our anger to pity for those that need a daily dose of sensationalism.
Comment by HKJ — August 29, 2009 @ 11:38 pm
I find it hilarious that in the USA you guys even bother debating whether Glenn Beck should be taken seriously.
For those of us overseas he’s just a joke, an idiot, a clown, and we find it stunning that anyone gives him any credibility at all. The same goes for FOX news in gerneral actually. In my travels through Utah it seemed like every airport or diner with a tv screen had it tuned in to FOX, and the general population just seemed to be lapping it up. It made me think that the Utah ultra-conservative set (the majority of the population, it seemed) must be really really thick. Unbelievably thick. Is it something in the water?
Comment by Mike — August 29, 2009 @ 11:42 pm
Where do you live, Mike?
Comment by sturgeon — August 30, 2009 @ 12:17 am
I think it’s sad that people who claim to follow Jesus can do such a crappy job of showing charity toward those with whom they disagree. Way too much hate, and no interest in considering an alternative point of view. No benefit of the doubt. Every opportunity to take quotes beyond their context to demonize those who disagree, and to give free passes to anybody who has done essentially the same thing but agree with them.
Folks, you’re wrong in your opinions. Every single one of you. Everyone you disagree with is right. Sometimes. Disagreeing with you isn’t a sin, and it doesn’t make anybody evil. You’re never going to know when the person disagreeing with you is right and you’re wrong if you’re not willing to step outside your comfortable little paradigm and consider, honestly, the other person’s points.
I’m wrong with my opinions too, at least as often as anybody else is. I spend not a little time listening to people who say things that piss me off, to find points that challenge my beliefs and help me enrich my understandings of things that I wouldn’t otherwise have.
Comment by Blain — August 30, 2009 @ 12:48 am
re: 121
The commandment to which you are referring is not that we shouldn’t judge. It is that we should judge a righteous judgment (JST Matt 7:1). We must judge actions and situations.
Interesting that you would point out the commandment to love our neighbor. I’m curious; in what way does Beck’s suggestion of murder for politicians he doesn’t like show love? Or his disparagement of the California fire victims? Shouldn’t we judge those actions as unbecoming of someone who is a follower of Christ?
re: 124
Same question to you: how does Beck show charity to the above? We are not criticizing the fact that he holds an alternative view, but rather that he frames that view in such spiteful, rage-filled, mean terms, and that he uses misinformation to back up his views.
(and why you assume we are not willing to listen to those with whom we disagree or give free passes to those who do similar things is a mystery to me. I’ve read books by Ayn Rand, Ron Paul, Barry Goldwater, and others with whom I disagree but who can at least frame their arguments in a somewhat civil and rational manner. I’ve listened to Beck, Rush, Savage, Hannity, O’Reilly, Medved, Praeger, and others. And I’ve dismissed any political discourse by liberal vulgarians like Randi Rhodes, Thom Hartman and their like. I doubt I’m alone here in this).
Comment by Derek — August 30, 2009 @ 1:19 am
“To question how his conversion, particularly a conversion motivated by the desire for Zion, could in any way be sincere when he sows such ugliness in the world.”
I am completely outraged and I don’t even know what to say!
I AM a convert. And I find it disgusting that you would be so bold and so presumptuous as to judge the authenticity of Glenn Beck’s conversion. How dare you.
It seems that I find this kind of judgmental talk everywhere I go. Don’t you see that you are doing very thing of which you are accusing Beck? It makes me completely sick.
I don’t have to grow up in the Church to know that this is not what the Church teaches. I don’t think being a “feminist Mormon housewife” means being contentious and judgmental.
Pathetic. I need to find a new blog to follow. Either that, or just read talks on the Church website.
Comment by butterflylion — August 30, 2009 @ 1:42 am
Don’t change blogs, just realize that this is a topic with a range of polarizings viewpoints
I personally think that reporters in positions such as his, should have more of a neutral position on issues and be less divisive in their rhetoric.
I really like President Obama especially because of his diplomatic nature.And I think he means well.
Also, I think He is a problem solver.
Beck, on the other hand doesn’t seem to be gifted in diplomacy like Obama is.
A diplomatic approach towards human relations and administration Can in many cases lead us towards unity, in my opinion.
I think we need to have more unity and less division, having a narrow minded commentator (whether its just a put on or not) doesn’t lead towards unity.
I haven’t heard a lot of Beck’s material, but I gather he is pretty narrow minded and opinionated.
I do wish the reporters in our country were more apt to try to bring people more together through their work rather than be so divisive.
Comment by Steve — August 30, 2009 @ 2:57 am
Were you referring to Glenn Beck?
People - we are perfectly able to despise Glenn Beck’s method of manipulating his audience, despise his rhetoric, despise his use of misleading facts. I can despise the fact that because he cries on camera that my family members think that means he is ‘feeling the spirit’ and so feel that everything he says is inspired from God. I despise that, un-apologetically. I don’t despise my family members, and I don’t “hate” anyone.
One of my close friends is a staunch conservative, and we discuss politics all the time. We disagree on some serious fundamental issues but we have great discussions. Sometimes I change his mind, sometimes he changes mine.
Challenging Glenn Beck’s craziness, or believing that he is irresponsibly stirring the country up to anger and violence, has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not we are open to other opinions or think we are always right.
I also never claimed to follow Jesus, but if I did - I would sure be pissed off that someone just used him as a bludgeoning weapon in a silly debate. I can’t stand it when people use the Jesus trump card.
Comment by julie — August 30, 2009 @ 3:35 am
125 — I’m not assuming anything about everybody. But, as has been shown in this thread, some of the characterizations of what Glenn has said in the OP are at best arguable, and do not show any benefit of the doubt. And thanks for being the first voice from the left in the thread to show any voice on the left that you find as objectionable. 125 messages down, but better late than never.
128 — Then maybe I was talking about those who have said they hate Glenn Beck, beginning with Reese, rather than you. By all means, only apply what I said to you if it fits, and feel free to ignore it if it doesn’t — most will ignore it anyhow, whether it fits or not.
So you were upset earlier in the thread when others made the same basic argument against Glenn Beck — up to and including questioning his conversion. I must have missed where you said so. Sorry about that. Everybody seems to have missed my less edged comment earlier in the thread, so it happens.
Comment by Blain — August 30, 2009 @ 4:32 am
re: 129
No, 29 messages down, where I had said:
The reason they haven’t been discussed more is because those people aren’t LDS, or at least aren’t public about being LDS (I don’t know their faiths), and so are not very relevant to the topic of how we relate to members of our faith whose actions we find deeply disturbing.
Comment by Derek — August 30, 2009 @ 9:18 am
I recently posted a facebook status about hating Glenn & Rush. I am not typically so severe, but I am insanely tired of their antics. YOU cannot believe the outcrys I recieved because I was taking a non-consevitive statnce. Funny thing is, I never mentioned my political position.
I cannot begin to express my frustrtation for Mormon’s who support Glan because he is Mormon. His words and actions are anything but Christlike. He spews forth anger and falsities. It drive me up the wall that Desert Book sells some of his books. It is like a stamp of approval.
Comment by Jen — August 30, 2009 @ 9:31 am
Mike in 123 - “For those of us overseas he’s just a joke, an idiot, a clown, and we find it stunning that anyone gives him any credibility at all. The same goes for FOX news in gerneral actually.”
Agreed! It’s like reading about all-star wrestling by people who think it’s an actual sport.
Comment by barmy stoat — August 30, 2009 @ 10:42 am
Butterflylion - That’s exactly the point I was trying to make. Who *AM* I to question his conversion? Nobody, that’s who. This church is no more mine than his, so I have to find a way to live with him as my brother in Zion.
Also, I guess I wasn’t expecting the reaction to my use of the word ‘hate’. Naive on my part, obviously. I wasn’t raised thinking of it as a four letter word, so I just toss it off as a synonym for “strongly dislike” or “detest.” Hopefully by the rest of my piece you guys understand that I’m not over here wishing disease and pestilence on him, rather I’m actively trying to see things from his point of view.
Comment by Reese Dixon — August 30, 2009 @ 12:00 pm
Why all this Glenn Beck bashing? What do you hope to accomplish? He is a conservative political commentator who, if you do not agree with him, appears narrow-minded and opinionated. The same thing can be said about liberal political commentators. If people feel such disdain for Glenn Beck, just ignore him.
There was a time DH and I couldn’t stand Bill O’Reilly. We now find ourselves agreeing with him more than disagreeing.
DH and I are baby boomers who find ourselves becoming more conservative in our thinking.
Is there a trend where younger members of the Church are becoming more liberal in their thinking? It appears that way to me, but I could be wrong. Am I?
Comment by Kalola — August 30, 2009 @ 12:13 pm
I don’t know, Kalola. Is 32 “old”?
Comment by Stephanie — August 30, 2009 @ 2:17 pm
Reese- Your OP reminded me of my Mom’s story. She once totally disagreed with a woman in her ward that was driving her NUTS!!! Not just the average version of nuts, but one of those women that gets you screaming mad. Anyway, she was at the temple and my father motioned for her to join him at a certain point and lo and behold that woman was there too with her husband. There was a question of leaving if you did not have good feelings for the people in the group. My mother had a moment to think and she decided that she would forgive and love her and get over her bad feelings. To this day, this woman’s antics do not bother her and she even now has a feeling of friendship for her. So, I think we can learn that it is our own worthiness to be mindful of and not others. Yes, Glenn Beck embarrasses me and I don’t agree with his political views. I think it is more of his showmanship then any type of prophetical call to action. If he were standing across from me in the temple, I think I could reconcile my feelings and carry on. He has to say his own prayers. Reese, I like where you are going though in that sometimes as members we are faced with people we really don’t like, but we are all members of the gospel. How to reconcile those feelings is important to the building of the kingdom, I think. Thanks for the post.
Comment by Katie — August 30, 2009 @ 2:35 pm
135.
Isn’t that the trend of society? The older generation, whose views were once deemed liberal, becomes conservative, and the younger generation embraces “new” progressive ideas. So it has always been, so it will always be. It is the way society evolves (and in some cases regresses) It is History, and the future. My radical liberal views will be seen as old fashioned by my children’s generation and obsolete in their children’s children’s time.
It must be difficult to see changes in ones lifetime, to have to give up power to next generation. The transition is uncomfortable, and yet inevitable. It is what is happening now.
Of course you identify more and more with O’Reily. He too is a member of the baby boomer generation. Brought up with the same general ideals, children of great wars, the kind of wars that will not likely be seen again. It was a smaller society, one where you knew your neighbors and it was possible to buy American.
I understand what Reese is getting at in this post because the same widening and globalization is happening within the church. There needs to be room for all kinds of members, because change is inevitable. Although Glenn Beck (and Bill O’Reilly for the record) drives me crazy, he is a member of the church, same as me. And Although we see things completely differently and practice our faith, and manifest our beliefs politically, so radically opposite of each other, we both are allowed and should be allowed to claim it as our own. It is the discomfort of transition.
Doesn’t mean I have to like him. I have not been commanded to do that (thank the merciful Lord). But I do have to love him. Kinda like I love my crazy Aunt Reva. I don’t associate or talk to her, but she is family.
I do wish he would shut up though….
Comment by just call me cassandra — August 30, 2009 @ 2:52 pm
I’m glad Christ’s atonement and the Church are big enough to encompass even those people I wouldn’t allow into my club. That I can’t stand his persona or his political opinions doesn’t mean I’m not glad that he’s found the Church and that the atonement has improved him and his life.
That said, Kalola, I sure as heck hope that younger members of the Church are becoming more liberal. I’m doing my part to recruit for the left.
Comment by Sam B. — August 30, 2009 @ 2:54 pm
I like some of the Questions Glenn Beck asks…I’ve never actually seen a show.
I did click the first link of the OP and laughed at how willingly it was taken out of context. I’m not saying I agree I’m just saying serious spin-in either direction cracks me up… Glenn Beck doesn’t like (what he identifies as about 10) whiny “victim” 911 families pleading for endless increasing amounts of money….translated by the OP to Glenn Beck hates families who’ve lost loved ones in the 911 tragedy! Actually he hates whiny scheming victims who use an awful tragedy to manipulate others into giving them money. That sounds reasonable. I don’t think he said it well.
It absolutely goes both ways. There are sheep on both sides of the fence, and thoughtful people who have genuine concerns and different perspectives.
That said, my first response was I hate people who hate people….I couldn’t resist.
Comment by britt — August 30, 2009 @ 3:45 pm
Here’s a good example of Glenn Beck wing-nuttery. I would refuse this guy a temple recommend if I were his bishop, on the grounds of (1)affiliation and sympathy with groups whose purposes and practices are contrary to the teachings of the church (in his case, Faux News), and (2) not being honest in all his dealings with his fellow (wo)men. The lying is so incredibly smooth, you know he must sit in front of the mirror to practice getting it so… polished.
Comment by Rich — August 30, 2009 @ 5:00 pm
I realize I’m digressing from the discussion about Glenn Beck, but wanted to respond to some comments.
#136 - Stephanie
Is 32 “old?” Let’s see … I found these remarks at another website enlightening:
In the cult classic “Wild In The Streets,” a little girl asks President Max Frost how old he is. When he replies “36,” she responds “That’s OLD.” “Wild In The Streets” … now that was an excellent movie.
#138 - just call me cassandra
Yes, it is difficult. Change is difficult for everyone, no matter what generation. As you wrote:
# 139 - Sam B.
What will “recruits to the left” find when they reach it? Just curious.
Comment by Kalola — August 30, 2009 @ 5:15 pm
I think you lose credibility as a Mormon when you hate someone. But otherwise, I agree with you.
The problem with Glenn Beck is not his opinions, it is his utter lack of respect for logic, facts, and politeness.
And because he is illogical, he can be a Mormon and a wacky hate-monger at the same time.
Comment by Vg — August 30, 2009 @ 5:32 pm
May I never have Rich as my bishop. I don’t watch fox news, but I don’t consider it or any news channel so opposed to church teachings that it would warrant such a consequence…you were kidding perhaps? Is anyone completely honest? I always answer that question with “I try”.
How do we reach unity when there are people of such vastly different opinions?
Comment by britt — August 30, 2009 @ 6:31 pm
re: 136
I wish it were true, but I think you may be wrong. I had a friend who recently showed me a poll about religion and politics. For most faiths, there was indeed a correlation between younger generations and liberal leanings. According to this poll, there relationship went the other direction (younger=more conservative). I’ll have to see if I can get the link from him again.
I suspect what you see is a greater willingness to speak out on the part of the Mormon liberals. From what I understand, there was a pretty wide political spectrum within the LDS population. But from the middle of the sixties there was a general drift to the Right, which seems to reflect a reaction against the women’s rights movement and against abortion, as well as a rise in the sway of Ezra Taft Benson. Over the last couple of decades that conservative cast became almost monolithic, and liberals felt stifled and silenced, their beliefs scorned by the mainstream culture. We liberals have ourselves now been reacting to the heavy-handed and oppressive atmosphere, finding those who connect us and being vocal in supporting our ideology in an LDS context. That greater determination to stand for something is what I think you may have been misinterpreting as a trend among the younger generations.
re: spin
Several here have rationalized away many of his angry statements. But I’m curious why no one had addressed Beck’s very blatant discussion of assassinating a member of congress. This to me is just about the worst thing he has done. We’re not talking about an off-the-cuff, random hyperbole of “I’d like to kill so-and-so!” in a moment of passion. This is a premeditated, rehearsed, orchestrated skit musing about poisoning Nancy Pelosi (for whom I’ve no great love; I would be just as disturbed and revolted if the target in question was Cheney, or Romney, Palin, or Beck himself). I’d really like to hear from those who say they like Beck or the questions he asks: what legitimate question is being posed here? Does anyone think Jesus would approve of such talk? Is it appropriate for a disciple of Christ, even in jest, to inject murder into the public debate? Has Beck ever apologized for this skit? If not, what does it say about a person that they could make this a center piece of one of their “reports,” and why should such a person be taken seriously if he quite consciously stoops to such vulgar and hate-filled messages? It’s one thing to forgive someone or to love them despite their sins. By watching and therefore giving tacit approval for such antics, don’t we enable that sort of hate? Shouldn’t we, as followers of Christ, be expecting more of our fellow brothers and sisters? Again, this isn’t about his political affiliation, but about how he is going about trying to conduct the discussion, appealing to the worst in us rather than the most rational, kind, and best in us.
My wife used to work for a HVAC company. She hated her job, primarily because of her boss. This man was incredibly disingenuous. He talked a lot about family and about the Church, evidently rather proud of the fact that he was on a High Council. But he was constantly pressuring my wife and others of the office staff to fudge the statistics. He bullied the sales staff into lying about contacts. He regularly advocated dishonest tactics to get a sale, and even lying about prices (something for which the company was successfully sued at least twice). He abused company vehicles and accounts for personal business. I was absolutely shocked at the stories my wife told him about his unethical practices. I did not, nor do I now, understand someone seeking to follow Christ could justify such actions. I didn’t hate him–I didn’t want him to suffer any misery or pain, didn’t want him dead. But I had absolutely no respect for the person.
I wonder: if I had been in his stake, would I have been able to sustain him in his calling? If called to be his home teacher, would I be able to serve him and show him the love I expect myself to show to my stewardships? Could I accept his leadership were I in a quorum under him? I doubt it. I struggle to believe that such a lack of integrity in the way he treats people in his professional life would not spill over into other areas of his life.
I suspect I would have the same reaction to Glenn Beck. I don’t have any interest in harming him or seeing him suffer. But given his history of lies, distortions, and hatemongering, I would have a difficult time respecting his integrity, sustaining him, working with him. I would never actively try to sabotage him or impede him in his callings, but I would struggle to actively support him.
So I don’t hate him. But I’m not right now at a place where I think I could claim to be really embracing him and welcoming him into my corner of the Church. And I probably need to work towards becoming more charitable so that I could reconcile with him as a person. But I also think there needs to be some accountability for his actions, rather than just saying it doesn’t matter how he conducts himself outside of Church.
Comment by Derek — August 30, 2009 @ 6:58 pm
Just thinking … is the Glenn Beck on TV the same Glenn Beck in real life? In other words, does he put on an act when he’s on camera?
Comment by Kalola — August 30, 2009 @ 7:01 pm
Glenn Beck wants me to take his stories of his conversion seriously but his political rantings as not serious. He wants not to be held accountable for his outrageous words, particularly if they happen to lead to others acting violent.
He thinks what will save America is for Osama Bin Laden to attack us again, to kill thousands if not millions of Americans, that that is what is best for America.
The man is a shame and a disgrace to America.
Comment by Dan — August 30, 2009 @ 7:03 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M36206g78Qc&feature=player_embedded
Anyone remember this incident? I wonder, has Beck’s wife seen this?
Comment by Dan — August 30, 2009 @ 7:06 pm
re: 146
Why do you ask? We can only speculate. This has been talked about earlier in the comments: Is it worse if he’s really this outrageous in real life? If it is just an act he puts on for ratings (ultimately for money), doesn’t that show a lack of integrity (ie, he feels he can be dishonest in his professional life)?
Comment by Derek — August 30, 2009 @ 7:16 pm
LOL–well done, Reese.
Conundrum, indeed. Yes, I believe in big tent Mormonism, although was definitely raised with opposite idea. Exhibiting charity is always the right answer and refusing to engage in political quackery leaves one with enough energy to do important things like serving each other.
(Whew, I can’t believe I got through this without saying how absolutely abhorrent I find him and his followers. Oh…whoops.)
Comment by Lupita — August 30, 2009 @ 7:17 pm
145:
I linked to that at 40 and talked about how those kinds of jokes spur looneys into action in 92.
Comment by just call me cassandra — August 30, 2009 @ 7:45 pm
#149 - Derek
No particular reason. Just random questions that came to mind.
And another random question I’m asking myself: If Glenn Beck were not LDS, would this discussion be taking place at fMh?
Comment by Kalola — August 30, 2009 @ 7:54 pm
#152,
No. In searching the archives, I found nothing about Michael Savage, and only one that had Anne Coulter in it, though, not the focus of the piece.
Comment by Dan — August 30, 2009 @ 8:17 pm
Kalola-
probably not under this context. I really despise Rush, but I don’t take it personally because his actions do not reflect poorly and directly to something so deeply intimate as my religion.
Don’t kid yourself. People pigeon hole and lots of folks assume I feel the same way because I am Mormon. We are a curious group that most don’t understand and so they take pop culture ( see polygamy mitt romney and glenn beck) and make assumptions. We d it to other religions and cultures…
Comment by just call me cassandra — August 30, 2009 @ 8:17 pm
Let’s just assume, for argument’s sake, that Glenn Beck is evil incarnate. What is our role? What are we to do as members of the church? We are obviously not his judge, but we do have some sort of role in policing our own.
As the OP pointed out, hating him doesn’t help.
I don’t feel this driving need to dig up dirt on him. I don’t watch the show. I don’t respond to emails about him or generally click the links. I have yet to make it through a whole youtube clip of him…even the ones on this thread. I do like some of the questions I’ve read that he’s raised-but that’s about the extent of my knowledge of him.
What is our role as fellow members?
Comment by britt — August 30, 2009 @ 8:39 pm
The longer this thread gets, the more I appreciate the question posed by the OP. I think a lot of you feel the same way about Beck as I feel about Harry Reid (okay, I don’t hate him quite as much, but I do often wonder how he and I could both be Mormon). I am tempted to say “He doesn’t count” to make it more comfortable for myself and my views. But, I have to acknowledge that there are good people I admire and respect (including on this site) who agree with, like and support Harry Reid, so I am forced to take an honest look at both him and myself and wonder if the truth might lie somewhere in between.
Regarding Beck, I do like him. I don’t watch him (or t.v.) anymore, so I haven’t seen his show in a year. I listen to him when he and I are both in the car at the same time (maybe an hour a week? But half of that is commercials) So, I’m really not any kind of authority on him. I used to listen/watch him more often (that was before he moved to Fox). He used to be much more of an entertainer and less of a political pundit. But, I did read his book “Common Sense” that just came out and agreed with pretty much all of it. None of it was new to me, so I must hear enough of his show to get his main point. The book didn’t seem to have his over-the-top exaggeration and hyperbole he uses on the show. It was a more straightforward explanation of his beliefs (kind of boring, actually). Half the things that he says on his show are joking - you kind of have to get his sense of humor to understand him. Like that link in 148 - that is very Glenn Beck.
Comment by Stephanie — August 30, 2009 @ 9:26 pm
Some do (obviously not Click and Clack), just with more sophistication.
What more needs to be said about Beck and my opinions.
Comment by Stephen M (Ethesis) — August 30, 2009 @ 9:35 pm
156: If that link in 148 is Glenn Beck, (or even just his humor), I have very little respect for the man. I don’t even want to begin to understand humor like that. If only the audio had been available, I most likely would have thought it was Howard Stern (whom I also have very little respect for).
Glenn Beck makes my skin crawl. Not because of his political opinions, which I can’t seem to make out behind all of the hyperbole, but because he is obnoxious.
I’m a little torn about his effect on the mainstream perception of Mormonism. I mean maybe he’s doing something good by showing people that Mormonism contains a full spectrum of folks. Maybe.
Comment by anon — August 30, 2009 @ 10:00 pm
Re 158 - Yeah, it wasn’t a good joke and obviously it fell flat. But, I can’t deny that it is fairly representative of his humor. He seems to joke about sex a lot.
Comment by Stephanie — August 30, 2009 @ 10:05 pm
Stephanie,
#156,
I can understand if you don’t like Harry Reid, but you really cannot compare Mr. Reid to Mr. Beck. Mr. Reid doesn’t do what Mr. Beck does, which is a poor attempt at “entertainment.” Mr. Reid is an actual politician who works within a political world with friends and enemies to try and get legislation done. If Mr. Reid were purposefully going around trying to incite listeners by saying such ridiculous things as “the people who hate America, their homes are burning right now in San Diego,” then you would have a point that he should anger you as Mr. Beck angers us.
Comment by Dan — August 30, 2009 @ 10:14 pm
Stephanie,
#159,
Ah yes, see he was only joking. That is always his excuse when his words and actions come back to haunt him. He and his supporters will always claim “he’s only joking.”
So… is he only joking when he is calling a racially mixed president a man who has a “deep seated hatred of white people?” Surely Mr. Beck was only kidding. But when you watch the video, you can see Mr. Beck is either a damn good actor, or he really means what he says. Was he joking?
Was he joking when he was contemplating how he would kill Michael Moore? May 17, 2005:
Ah, only joking. So funny! What a hoot!
Wanting to take a picture of a naked hot woman? Oh yeah, only joking.
Comment by Dan — August 30, 2009 @ 10:17 pm
anon,
#158,
Here is another clip of that same incident that gives just a bit more context
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHpe2fapREA
That’s the best you can get of that particular incident. It’s February 28 2007. Here is the transcript:
Comment by Dan — August 30, 2009 @ 10:24 pm
Okay, Dan, but that wasn’t my point. My point was that I think there is room for both me and Harry Reid in the “Big Mormon Tent”.
You don’t need to get all snippety with me over Beck’s humor. I’m not defending him or calling all of his jokes appropriate. I am saying that, from what I’ve observed, half of what comes out of his mouth is a joke. And the joke about taking the picture of a woman seems representative of his humor.
Comment by Stephanie — August 30, 2009 @ 10:25 pm
the sophisticated way NPR dissents is far more appealing than rude dumb uneducated yelling the right so loves. Call me an elitist… if you want. I guess.
Comment by just call me cassandra — August 30, 2009 @ 10:32 pm
Stephanie,
Harry Reid is boring. He’s got nothing incendiary! You throw him in there as if he were comparable to Glenn Beck. That’s fairly insulting to an otherwise good man. You may disagree with his politics, but is there really anything that comes out of Harry Reid’s mouth that is morally offensive anywhere close to the same level as that of Glenn Beck? I mean, talk about crude, lewd “humor.” Beck is egging on this beautiful woman to strip in front of him so he could take a picture of her naked and disseminate it around the web to prove his point. There is nothing funny in that, which was why she wasn’t laughing. That’s 80s dumb jock humor. It’s certainly not befitting of any defense as “hey it’s only a joke.”
Comment by Dan — August 30, 2009 @ 10:34 pm
Dan, I don’t have a lot of well-known liberal Mormons to choose from. I’m not looking for a perfect comparison to Beck. Again, I am just saying that I appreciate the questions posed by the OP. They cause me to reflect on my own feelings. Sorry if my use of Reid as a comparison was offensive.
Comment by Stephanie — August 30, 2009 @ 10:41 pm
I didn’t know Beck was Mo until mfranti pointed it out to me, rather recently. I had a curiously mixed reaction to the news, that looking back was also really uninformed.
1) I thought he was much more fringe than he apparently is.
2) I was shocked that a Mo had such wide evangelical acceptance.
3) I was seriously sad for my LDS friends and concerned about backlashes or more pointedly, “Glenn Beck is typical of Mormon men,” talk from liberal anti’s.
Yeah. This is the heart of your post, Reese and it’s made me think a lot about how I respond to comments that really deviate from the topic, how fMh as a board does and some comparisons of other blog “boards.”
FMh is truly anarchic. There is a basic civility code but you have to be pretty obnoxious to get bounced. Not so on Zelophehad’s Daughter (which, by the way, I totally adore.) Their bouncing policy is more structured to foster on- topic civil debate- all of the permas are super pleasant, non-personal and decent when they bounce someone. They always give an explanation, there is never an acrimonious parting shot- they just move on. There’s also a sense that bouncing the person has less to do with the person per se but rather moving the discussion along in a helpful way.
So, to me, Reese’s quote about the uncomfortable or hypocritical understanding she had of how she might be viewed as an “outsider” in her own religion v the way she judged Bro Beck was the very heart of what she was attempting, with the help of a community (you,me,us) to grapple with and understand better. Very few of us have engaged this question in a way that I find helpful.
For instance, “get over it.” Not helpful. “Ignore him.” Not really helpful. “All liberals only like liberals and etc….Totally not helpful.
I think the question is a real question. I believe Reese when she says she struggles with this and I admire the honesty it takes to ask the question in the first place.
For my own answer I am going to continue in my long winded way and paraphrase Anne Lamott. She was seeking to be more Christ-like and really tackle the issue of forgiveness but kept getting hung up on the Holocaust. Her best friend Pam told her, “Start smaller. Don’t begin the practice of forgiveness with Hitler.”
I am emphatically NOT comparing Beck to Hitler *eye roll* but I am suggesting that, for me, I wouldn’t start with Beck. I’d start with the crazy guy on fast Sunday who LOVES Beck and wants to tell you about it. If I knew something lovely he had done, helped a neighbor etc, I would force myself to hold that image in my mind as he ranted on about immigration or ominous threats to the family.
I think you have to practice and I believe you are rewarded accordingly. Not by God, you apostates of atheism(!), but rather by that smug internal voice (ugh, go ahead, call it “the spirit,” if you must) that alerts you to personal progress.
Laugh if you will, but one of the times I was most impressed by my capacity for Christ-like love was after we got our dog, Ollie. We were so enraptured with her. We sat around the dinner table every night and compared stories of sweet things we’d seen her do that day. The whole family was smitten. Ollie is a Border Collie/Aussie Shepard. I’ve always dislike small yappy dogs. One day I saw a woman getting out of her truck with her small yappy dog and I thought, “Oh. I bet she loves that little rat just like we love Ollie,” and I was literally filled with this warm glowing light that encompassed us both while I felt pure- unmitigated by her political beliefs, choice in clothing or any other temporal thing- all caps LOVE - for all of about 40 seconds.
That’s a good day for me.
I think the goal is to be able to look at Beck with love/compassion as a fellow human. He makes it super hard with his batshit distortions and invectives but someday I may be able to hear that, feel sorry for him and move on.
That day is not today. Nor do I think when that day comes will I be any less likely to inform his sponsors of my outrage.
Comment by crazywomancreek — August 30, 2009 @ 11:07 pm
CWC, Noodle, Harry and Landra Reid.
Comment by crazywomancreek — August 30, 2009 @ 11:14 pm
CWC, I couldn’t get the link to work.
Comment by Stephanie — August 30, 2009 @ 11:22 pm
I never really liked Glenn Beck until I read that post where he was talking about choking Michael Moore. Anyways, since were on the topic of the mormon religion and politics check out mormons in Germany under the third reich.
Comment by sturgeon — August 30, 2009 @ 11:23 pm
I fixed the link for you CWC.
Comment by Reese Dixon — August 30, 2009 @ 11:25 pm
Dan, I may have misunderstood Reese’s question. I read it as asking if we truly believe there is room for both us and someone with opposite political (or other) views in the same big Mormon tent (hence my use of Harry Reid as a comparison). I believe the answer is a resounding yes.
However, if she really meant, “Is there room for us and someone who does things we find so abhorrent and wrong and embarassing in the same big Mormon tent?” (and I can’t think of a good comparison), then I still think the answer is yes.
Either way, like CWC, I appreciate the question and admire Reese for asking it.
Comment by Stephanie — August 30, 2009 @ 11:29 pm
Ha ha. That’s great, CWC. I like you anyways.
Comment by Stephanie — August 30, 2009 @ 11:31 pm
re: 156
So you don’t have a problem with people joking about murdering others? Do you think that adds anything positive to the political discussion? If not, what is the purpose? What is he trying to “inspire?” And if it isn’t positive, if he routinely resorts to such “jokes,” why should we trust him in any aspect of the political debate?
Comment by Derek — August 30, 2009 @ 11:32 pm
One of the things that first drew me to fMh is that the postings and comments stand as a testament to the diversity of thought and politics within the Mormon community. Whereas I am politically conservative, I’ve always bristled at the notion that being such is a prerequisite to being a good Saint.
It disappoints me that so many on this thread are castigating a fellow member because he doesn’t conform to their political beliefs and/or humor guidelines. So many have stated that they are embarrassed by his membership in the church. While it is true that Glenn Beck is open about his faith and the important role it plays in his life he has never held himself up as an example of what makes a good Mormon. In fact, anyone who listens to him with frequency has heard him regularly confess his shortcomings and faults.
None of us need to like, agree with or approve of Glenn Beck, but certainly we can all recognize that the gospel is for imperfect people - perhaps the only thing we do all have in common.
Comment by Patti — August 30, 2009 @ 11:34 pm
Derek - just curious if you have a problem with the fact that Senator Kennedy liked to joke about, of all things, Chappaquiddick.
Comment by Patti — August 30, 2009 @ 11:41 pm
I don’t think that’s a fair statement. A lot of his jokes are in poor taste. I am not arguing to “trust him in any aspect of the political debate”. I’m not a raving fan. But, in general, I like him. He’s entertaining to listen to for the few minutes I am in the car, and I like his general ideas about less government. But, I’m not going to defend him tooth and nail over everything he said. He puts his foot in his mouth a lot.
Comment by Stephanie — August 30, 2009 @ 11:57 pm
Jokes are supposed to be funny. Beck will says he’s joking after he makes a statement that is abhorrent but doesn’t contain a scintilla of humor. “I want to kill Michael Moore.” That’s a real knee slapper. Stop it Glenn! You’re killing me!
Comment by Cliff — August 31, 2009 @ 12:01 am
I’m done with this thread. I don’t think it’s really about Glenn Beck at all, as much as it is about ourselves. I like CWC’s comment #167 and how she brings it to a personal level of forgiveness and acceptance. Good night.
Comment by Stephanie — August 31, 2009 @ 12:07 am
I Totally shared my testimony of fMh to Harry and Landra. True. She said she’d check us out.
Comment by crazywomancreek — August 31, 2009 @ 12:07 am
WHAT? Now you’re really putting me to the test, CWC.
(Seriously, good night. I’ve got kids to take care of in the morning)
Comment by Stephanie — August 31, 2009 @ 12:09 am
Re: 167
I like your ideas on forgivesness
I do think Its hard these days to even forgive our closest neighbors at times for the simplest misunderstandings, and I guess its easy to try and want to transfer this hate to some Rush or Glenn “rough-rider” commentator who talks before seemingly thinking,
but when it comes down to it perhaps it doesn’t really matter a whole lot for our day to day challenges on the local level.
Comment by Steve — August 31, 2009 @ 2:13 am
It is difficult being a Mormon Democrat at times when surrounded by Glen Beck-ish types of Mormons who are full of hate and fear mongering. I hold my tongue and walk away. I refuse to give his show another second of my precious time and I too wish that he would quit advertising that he’s a card carrying Mormon. It’s terribly embarressing.
Comment by Maggie — August 31, 2009 @ 2:22 am
I wonder if all of you were recorded 5 hours per day if you’d ever say something you wish you hadn’t.
@63: WRT “radical marxist revolutionaries” that is how they people describe themselves, that’s not me “using incediary phrasing and hyperbole”. The most recent example as a case in point. http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-722-Conservative-Politics-Examiner~y2009m7d17-Van-Jones-Green-Jobs-Czar-a-selfdescribed-communist-arrested-during-Rodney-King-riots
@70: Good luck reconciling that when you stand before Him.
@87: You have GB so wrong, I don’t even know where to begin. I won’t.
@61: Fox News isn’t always a “serious” news channel. Beck often employs comedy and skits, and Red Eye is a total comedy show like the Daily Show. So yes, jokes do belong on a show that tells jokes and performs skits.
@92: No Derek, Beck does NOT sincerely believe that Nancy Pelosi should be murdered. I bet that hate keeps you so warm at night you don’t need a blanket.
@122: These are trying times. Look at how naive the 50s looked comparent to the 70s, the 70s looked innocent compared to the 80s, the 90s revolved around drugs, violence, and sex. Do you think culture is going to get better in the next decade? It’s time for people to take a stand. The people you “feel sorry for” are standing up for their values, and if you find any network media out there that represents that *besides* Glenn Beck, you please come here and tell me where so I can watch.
Look, you all do what you want, I’m not here to judge you or take your inventory. But I’m not standing down as evil is pressure cooked in to the fabric of our lives and religion is forced out. Glenn Beck isn’t perfect by a long shot, but he’s all we have because no one else with a voice that reaches millions is willing to stand up for the Constitution, our values, and religion.
Comment by Me — August 31, 2009 @ 3:34 am
This isn’t an issue of forgiveness. This is an issue of toleration of extremism. Beck gets on his TV and on his radio ranting about Obama being like Hitler, and a fascist, socialist, commie. If he were truly just some comedian trying to get a laugh, but being crude about it, I wouldn’t care at all that he were Mormon and I wouldn’t care at all what he had to say. There are far cruder jokesters out there (Chris Rock anyone?).
Glenn Beck is trying to be a political leader. He is placing himself as someone people can trust in to tell them the truth. It is the essential strategy of his book “Common Sense” and of every show of his. He places himself as a “mediator” shepherding the people to the right questions to ask their government. Now, if this is all a joke, as some are suggesting, then he is a liar, as many many people actually believe his words. But if he is actually sincere, well, I don’t know which is worse, that he lies about what he says, or that he believes what he says. Either way, he is a poison to the political discourse of America.
Comment by Dan — August 31, 2009 @ 6:23 am
Glenn Beck is basically a hate monger. No different than anyone else who is a purveryor of the unsavory side of human nature for profit.
Can one sell sleeze, drugs, hate or pornography to keep the wolf away from door and still be a devout Mormon in their personal life?
Comment by cyclingred — August 31, 2009 @ 6:26 am
@183
I love how this: Look, you all do what you want, I’m not here to judge you or take your inventory.
and this: I bet that hate keeps you so warm at night you don’t need a blanket.
are mere lines apart. giggle.
Comment by lurkerSteph — August 31, 2009 @ 6:31 am
Re: 126: Nice clarification on righteous judgment. CWC’s statement on forgiveness was also enlightening.
The process that Glen Beck uses is sometimes over the top and awkward. I agree with the process of bringing issues up for discussion and giving voice to concerns that polite society would avoid. Mr. Beck gives voice to his opinions of those issues, even when his viewpoint isn’t in harmony with my opinion.
He also brings diversity to the idea of what it means to be “Mormon”. Although we are encouraged by our religion to present ourselves in a similar manner, we vary. Although we wish for our religion to be consistent, locally and nationally, it varies according to the charismatic leadership and personality of the Stake Presidents and Bishops in its leadership.
It is ironic that Mr. Beck is honored by our religion and I’m shunned, just because I requested, more than once, to pay tithing under my own name, (not head of household’s), continue to attend the temple on my own, and questioned the requirement that I must have my husband schedule and attend a meeting with our Stake President, as a prerequisite for the meeting to be scheduled.
My experience in the LDS Church is that they often allow men to voice their requests and opinions, then demonstrate retaliation and dominance behavior toward women who voice their opinions and requests for equitable treatment.
The comments about the naive 1950’s and the provincial attitudes of that decade rang true. However, the dark side of that era was that women couldn’t get credit on their own, and husbands had to cosign on most important transactions.
“The suffrage movement, in the United States and all over the world, was not just about women having the right to vote,” said Cynthia Coe, director of Women’s Studies at CWU. “It was really about establishing the political equality of women in a time and culture that assumed that women were intellectually inferior to men, unable to make rational decisions in their own lives, much less about the nation at large, and unfit for participation in the public sphere.”
If Glen Beck were a woman, I doubt he would be able to remain in the LDS Church, or in the public sphere, because he voices his opinions so fearlessly and at times, obnoxiously.
Comment by Jo — August 31, 2009 @ 6:49 am
So what I’m getting is that you want the right to have women have the priesthood, question GA’s and prophets, attack Julie Beck, question the proclamation on the family-and after that what you want from Salt Lake is a welcome, a listening ear and a seat at the table…yet because Glenn Beck works for Fox news HE shouldn’t have a recommend? His politics and over the line sense of humor (”joking” about murder and sex) make him out side of Mormonism. He is the one really stretching the tent…regardless of the fact that his feelings towards his religion are generally (as far as we know) mainstream?
It’s funny to hear people categorizing the Glenn Beck sheep as those people over there full of hate-as they wonder if they can contain their own hatred.
Comment by britt — August 31, 2009 @ 6:50 am
131 — Sorry I missed that point earlier. My
Comment by Blain — August 31, 2009 @ 7:09 am
My comment got eaten. Second try:
131 — Sorry I missed that point earlier. My early comment got missed too.
Otherwise, I’m continuing to see a great deal of disagreement-based demonization going on, and I’m not happy about it. I find references to “Glenn Beck followers,” and the idea that people are being incited to violence by Glenn colossally (and likely intentionally) missing the points. I also find people taking Glenn way more seriously than he takes himself, both those who agree and those who don’t. I can’t remember seeing him speak for more than a minute without making the point that he sees himself as a bumbling goof who doesn’t really know much of anything.
But what’s with the accusations that he’s lying? I think he’s legitimately concerned about the things he says he’s concerned about, and some of that concern is outrage at those who he thinks contributed to serious problems. Does he play it up for effect some? Sure? Is he wrong? As much as anybody, afaict.
I just don’t see many of the folks ranting and raving about how terrible Glenn Beck is, or how he’s un-Christlike, or how he shouldn’t have a TR, being in a position to point a finger at him and conservatives around them being “full of hate.” The pots and kettles are just overflowing the space.
Reese — my response to your question was way back up in 65, in case you missed it. It remains my best answer: that which connects us is greater than that which would divide us if we have the right priorities. If things are dividing us, I think we need to adjust our priorities.
Comment by Blain — August 31, 2009 @ 7:12 am
re: 176
This is not about poor taste, nor about innocently putting one’s foot in one’s mouth; this is about deliberately stirring up deep-seated hostility. How could talk about murder, whether or not it is a “joke,” do anything but coarsen the political debate? Someone willing to delve so frequently into such animosity is actively tearing apart the political discussion. Because of Beck and people like him, I hear many of my conservative acquaintances taking up many of these more negative and violent lines of argument shared by Beck and his ilk. Why then should serious, sincere people listen to him or validate him? As long as people are willing to validate him, he will continue to exacerbate the problem.
re: 176
Yes, it is about ourselves. I think it is in many ways about how often people hypocritically accept unconscionable behavior in the name of a side we affiliate with. Al Franken calls Rush Limbaugh a big fat idiot, and many conservatives castigate him for crudity and meanness (and those conservatives are right). But then Beck talks about murder of public figures, and it’s just a joke, nothing to get so bugged about.
I don’t accept that sort of crap from “my side,” and I certainly don’t accept it from someone who is supposed to have a higher standard.
re: 175
I’m not much of a fan of the Kennedy line period. And yes, I am bugged that he could make light of something like that.
re: 183
So he’s just willing to talk about murder for the ratings. Classy.
I really respect people who are willing to take an honorable and rational stand for beliefs other than my own, people like Ron Paul, George Will, and Tony Blankley. I wish the average conservative paid more attention to more honorable people like this and less to the hatemongers which seem so prominent on the airwaves.
Comment by Derek — August 31, 2009 @ 9:28 am
re: 167 CWC, well gal, you’re a better woman than I. I doubt I’ll EVER feel that grace of unconditional love for a little yappy dog. Yuch. Nor, i must confess, have I much warm regard for herd dogs. I’ve always figured that if you train the cows, you don’t need the damn dog.
Comment by Betty Jo — August 31, 2009 @ 9:36 am
Love your neighbor as yourself…Betty Jo!
Comment by JimmieDay — August 31, 2009 @ 9:40 am
re: 186
Britt, again, I do not think anyone here is saying Beck should be cast out at all, and especially not for his political beliefs. Questioning and challenging concepts, from the left or right (or anywhere else) should not be considered grounds for ostracism. What many of us have consistently objected to is the manner in which he seeks to spread his beliefs. Even if you put aside the charge that he deliberately lies, it is unquestionable that his work is deeply negative and inflammatory. You say we have questioned the prophets, and that is true…but I don’t believe anyone here in these discussions in which we’ve questioned the prophets have called them nazis, or fascists. Sister Beck was criticized, but I don’t think anyone fantasized about killing her. To equate our questioning with those “jokes” is a quite a bit of a stretch. To dismiss them as simply meaningless humor denies the power those words andn deeds have. We have a difficult time seeing how those “jokes” serve any constructive purpose. Can you help us understand? We don’t see how that facilitates any sort of meaningful dialogue. We fail to see how it does anything but engender increasing animosity in the public sphere–people increasingly parrot that mean-spiritedness in the public sphere. That is why we think he is stretching the fabric of the tent–because he seems to be working against the functioning of a civil society and of the Gospel by his work.
Comment by Derek — August 31, 2009 @ 9:52 am
@ 175,
Here’s one I found through google:
Q: What’s the difference between Fat Ted Kennedy and Charlie Manson?
A: Charlie Manson is doing time for his murders.
The way you phrased the post, it made it sound like Kennedy was making jokes at the expense of Mary Jo Kopechne, which couldn’t appear farther from the truth. If anything, I suspect (as in the example) most of the people making Chappaquiddick jokes were those with a dislike of Kennedy. The jokes are aimed at Kennedy himself, not that tragically deceased young woman.
Why would he seek those jokes out? Hearing those jokes that are aimed at him, picking at that wound, hearing the criticism, especially criticisms of my greatest moral failings, would be grounding and humbling. A great reminder that your efforts at redemption will never be enough because the jokes and references will never stop coming. I’m guessing that this incident (given the lengthy list of his later accomplishments) spurred him in his resolve to be a better person and work harder for the poor, civil rights, people with disabilities, etc.
Of course, guessing that is what he experienced when hearing those jokes about himself and his role requires a willingness to empathize with him and not consider him an amoral liberal bogeyman.
Similarly, as can be seen in my prior postings, I try to do the same with Glenn Beck. I assume he’s a real person and not some conservative bogeyman. I’ve asked, of the people who claim special knowledge of him, whether he’s putting on an act for the audience. No one has answered, so I’ll just have to keep assuming (in good faith) he believes he’s helping. In which case the most charitable explanation is (in multiple comments I’ve made) that he needs better fact checkers because a lot of his fears-expressed-in-question-form are verifiably wrong. If you do the verification.
@patti, I meant to do the research and find out the backgrounds of the two guys besides Van Jones you mentioned but I’ve been pretty busy. You haven’t said if you’ve tried to do your own research so I’m thinking you’re just not that interested. If you are actually interested and can’t find any information countering your claim on your own then let me know and I’ll explain my research process (really just googling) and see what counter-arguments are out there.
Comment by barnetto — August 31, 2009 @ 10:34 am
Glenn Beck, whether he is Mormon, Muslim, Protestant or of any faith, is really showing his lack of principles. He is peddling lies, halftruths, and is now one of the lead fearmongers in the USA, and he’s up to his neck in the mire of humanity. It is truly sad that he is misleading so many people, fomenting anger and falsehoods, and its just as sad that people believe most of the mud he slings. Its even worse for Mormonism, since some Mormons want to root for a fellow Mormon. In many ways I worry he is making Mormon republicanism more radical and illogical. I have many friends who just love watching him, and the honestly believe all he says about the Obama administration. Its a sad day for Mormons and Republicans. Thank goodness comedians on the Daily Show and Colbert Report can at least help us laugh at his and others terrible dishonest, misleading, and divisive political messages.
Comment by zrj — August 31, 2009 @ 11:35 am
I’ve generally been embarrassed by many things Beck has said, and I feel bad about his pseudo-scholarship being peddled at Deseret Book.
Comment by BHodges — August 31, 2009 @ 11:54 am
Here is a good one…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/31/glenn-beck-tells-listener_n_272781.html
Comment by Melissa Mc — August 31, 2009 @ 11:58 am
Glenn Beck said this yesterday:
Can you Glenn Beck fans help me out here? Do you believe that Glenn Beck thinks that Obama is a marxist? Do you think Glenn Beck really believes there is a “coup” going on? This is a serious issue, as his followers have been bringing actual guns to health care debates and to Obama speeches. The death threats against the president have skyrocketed — 400% higher than under George Bush. Killing people not good, I think we can all agree on that. Glenn Beck’s schtick of whipping his followers up into a frenzy, as shown in the amazingly fact-free snippet above, and then looking all innocent with the excuse “I’m joking,” doesn’t impress me all that much.
I think the problem that many posters have with Glenn Beck is that he is a very popular demagogue who loudly proclaims his Mormonism. The problem is not that Glenn Beck shouldn’t be allowed inside the Mormon tent, but that he may be becoming “the face of Mormonism” for many people. That’s where the discomfort lies. That, and how he uses his faith to bolster his political beliefs.
However, he talks only for himself.
Comment by djinn — August 31, 2009 @ 12:28 pm
Glenn Beck is trying to be a political leader. He is placing himself as someone people can trust in to tell them the truth. It is the essential strategy of his book “Common Sense” and of every show of his. He places himself as a “mediator” shepherding the people to the right questions to ask their government. Now, if this is all a joke, as some are suggesting, then he is a liar, as many many people actually believe his words. But if he is actually sincere, well, I don’t know which is worse, that he lies about what he says, or that he believes what he says. Either way, he is a poison to the political discourse of America.
Comment by Dan — August 31, 2009 @ 12:57 pm
Patti, ask and you shall receive.
Van Jones, Pres. Obama’s “green” czar, was definitely an angry young man. But he grew up, and since the 1990’s he’s been championing environmentally responsible capitalism. A quote from his 2008 book:
This guy is absolutely not a radical.
Now to Mark Lloyd. As far as I can tell, by looking at sites that virulently dislike him, the opposition boils down to his desire to, in his (co-written) words:
You can certainly disagree with these points, but it doesn’t make someone a radical to hold them. I notice he also said something positive about Hugo Chavez, awhile ago. This also doesn’t make someone a dangerous revolutionary.
John Holdren, ahhh, the worse thing Fox News could find to say about him is as follows:
Of course, the 1000 page text book doesn’t even “seem[] to advocate” that. It simply lists potential scenarios. It’s absurd that a single scenario pulled out of a 1000 page book co-written by two other people could be so distorted. It’s like saying that someone who writes about the potential after-effects of a nuclear explosion is pro-blowing-up the United States.
This last little bit of slander seems to be Glenn Beck’s Eighteen Million Dollar secret. Take a tiny, misunderstood bit of information, blow it up all out of proportion–PROFIT!!!
Comment by djinn — August 31, 2009 @ 1:08 pm
Found this great comment about Glenn Beck on a post elsewhere:
“He knows the audience who eats up every word of this nonsense and he knows to keep ahead of the pack, and keep other media interested in him (and providing free promotional push) he has to keep getting more and more outlandish and controversial. He a “character”, the Marilyn Manson of political tv personalities.
Just like the WWE, he has a staff that comes up with all of this crap. He doesn’t just go out there spouting and raving and they point a camera at him. It’s an act, and as soon as the media at large stops treating these performers (Beck, Limbaugh, Coulter, etc) like they’re legitimate, the better off we’ll all be. It’s like the national agenda is being held hostage by circus clowns.”
Comment by queuno — August 31, 2009 @ 1:41 pm
I think of the issues here is the “Mormon celebrity”, which Mormons worship with a higher degree than other faiths do their own celebrities.
Think about it — how many LDS Church members are fans of the Philadelphia Eagles, despite never ever having ties to Philly? A generation ago, how many were Niners fans? How many rooted for whatever team’s Ty Detmer was sitting on? It has nothing to do with the team — it has everything to do with the fact that Steve Young and Andy Reid are Mormons. (On the flip side - Brian Billick graduated from BYU, and you didn’t see big Mormon followers of the Ravens.)
I told my SP 15 years ago that the only reason Shawn Bradley was remotely interesting was because of his religion, and that’s because we subscribe to a cult of personality when it comes to famous Mormons. He tried to argue with me about it — defending Shawn Bradley’s basketball skills!
There’s now a trend to celebrate Mormon CEOs — only to find out that these people fail as much as anyone else and that their Mormonness has no bearing on their business careers.
Comment by queuno — August 31, 2009 @ 1:49 pm
(Having some issues here. Ignore 204 and go with this one.)
I think one of the issues here is the “Mormon celebrity”, which Mormons worship with a higher degree than other faiths do their own celebrities.
Think about it — how many LDS Church members are fans of the Philadelphia Eagles, despite never ever having ties to Philly? A generation ago, how many were Niners fans? How many rooted for whatever team’s bench Ty Detmer was sitting on? It has nothing to do with the team — it has everything to do with the fact that Steve Young and Andy Reid are Mormons. (On the flip side - Brian Billick graduated from BYU, and you didn’t see big Mormon followers of the Ravens.)
I told my SP 15 years ago that the only reason Shawn Bradley was remotely interesting was because of his religion, and that’s because we subscribe to a cult of personality when it comes to famous Mormons. He tried to argue with me about it — defending Shawn Bradley’s basketball skills!
There’s now a trend to celebrate Mormon CEOs — only to find out that these people fail as much as anyone else and that their Mormonness has no bearing on their business careers.
Comment by queuno — August 31, 2009 @ 1:50 pm
More on Van Jones:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eva-paterson/glenn-becks-attack-on-van_b_271518.html
Comment by Melissa M — August 31, 2009 @ 2:17 pm
Incidentally, if we want to talk about Keith Olbermann, check out this awesome parody by Ben Affleck.
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/countdown-with-keith-olbermann/805561/
Comment by queuno — August 31, 2009 @ 5:29 pm
207 I don’t know what to say to someone who makes light of torture. You should peddle that trash elsewhere, this is a discussion for people - on both sides of the political aisle- who have strongly held beliefs. It’s not a discussion for douche bags who find the idea of simulating drowning on another human being “satisfying,” you loathsome turdbag.
Comment by crazywomancreek — August 31, 2009 @ 6:21 pm
Regardless of how you feel about Glenn Beck (I personally find him appalling), this is an excellent article. Reese is actually getting at a deeper issue of how to reconcile political views and religion, or religion and celebrities who practice that religion. These are questions I think we all deal with as members of the church, whether our questions are about Harry Reid, Glen Beck, Steve Young, Orrin Hatch, Stephanie Meyer, or Stephen Covey. As a liberal Mormon, I am constantly forced to recognize my fellow members as sons and daughters of God, even though I find their political or social views on the world difficult to understand. On another note, as a scholar of early American literature and history, reading his “rewrite” of Paine’s *Common Sense* was perhaps the low point of my life. Seriously, Glenn?
Comment by Nick Miller — August 31, 2009 @ 6:45 pm
@207,
“The best thing about beck is how lib’s loathe him.”
I fail to see how this is a selling point. If I turned the comment around, “the best thing about X is that conservatives loathe him” would that necessarily be an argument FOR someone?
Let’s try some name substitution and find out.
Nope, I still think he’s a power hungry guy willing to sabotage his own country’s constitution to stay in power perpetually.
Comment by barnetto — August 31, 2009 @ 6:47 pm
hmmm…left out an end quote somewhere.
Comment by barnetto — August 31, 2009 @ 7:31 pm
I’m not LDS, so I have a question about the specifics of your beliefs.
*IF* you felt one of your brethren was acting sinful, in a manner contrary to Christlike example, and was sinning in such a way that it could harm his salvation, are you called on as a Brother or Sister in Christ to lovingly correct him?
For example, if Mr. Beck was in the church lobby and made a lewd remark to a women that alluded to taking a naked picture of her with his cell phone, would that be grievous enough that a fellow Mormon who overheard would be called by his faith to approach Brother Beck about his sin? Or not?
And if so, is behavior that would not be acceptable in a church lobby be “okay” in the workplace or under the guise of a joke in poor taste?
Comment by Not LDS but with a question — August 31, 2009 @ 7:54 pm
Silly Not LDS but with a question, it was just a ‘joke’,! Funny, huh?
Comment by djinn — August 31, 2009 @ 9:16 pm
Not LDS - I think that’s an excellent question and I’d love to hear other answers.
For me it would totally depend. If I knew the person well enough to pull them aside diplomatically, in a way I thought had a chance to at all be productive, then I would probably do it, depending on the act and the knowledge I had about it. But I would have to be really close to the person.
If I was a witness to something I found intensely inappropriate, such as your example. I would probably say I found it intensely inappropriate and leave any judgments about what to do about that up to the people involved.
If I felt like someone was in some kind of danger, physical, spiritual, what have you, then I would step in in any way I could.
I think in general I would tend to keep my corrections and judgments to myself in hopes that others would do the same for me.
Comment by Reese Dixon — September 1, 2009 @ 12:39 am
D’oh - Someone said Stephanie Meyer. Can we disown her?
Comment by queuno — September 1, 2009 @ 12:47 am
#215
I think in general I would tend to keep my corrections and judgments to myself in hopes that others would do the same for me.
Thank you for your reply. Just to clarify, does your church teach that you (collective “you” as a in community of Believers) are responsible (in loving and productive ways) to lead each other?
It probably would NOT be productive nor promote spiritual growth for a total stranger to write Mr. Beck a letter regarding their concerns for his public behavior, particularly as a (like-it-or-not) representative of the LDS church.
However if the commenter calling him(?)self “Me” in this thread, who has had a decade long relationship with GB probably *could* approach him (if he was so led and/or obligated by his faith). Not that “Me” would do that, since “Me” apparently sees no issue in Mr. Beck’s public persona.
But again.. just askin’. I’m curious if the LDS people are called to be their brothers’ keepers in any fashion.
Comment by Not LDS but with a question — September 1, 2009 @ 12:51 am
Well, it’s a little bit complicated. I’d say the short answer is yes, and no.
Since the leadership of the church is a lay clergy drawn from the congregation, yes we (those of us called as leaders) are our Brother’s keeper. Local leaders are responsible for correcting troubling behaviors within their stewardship and assisting members in becoming better disciples.
If someone isn’t in our direct stewardship we don’t have that obligation, and we’re also told not to judge, to be loving, but then again we’re also told to stand for what we believe, to be an example. So if someone is a bishop, stake president, home teacher, YW/YM leader, RS President, then they should say something in the appropriate circumstance.
The rest of us should mind our own business, but also set an example. It’s quite a balancing act and would probably look different for every person in every different situation.
Comment by Reese Dixon — September 1, 2009 @ 1:00 am
Wow! I can’t believe the hatred on this board.. not to mention the hypocrisy. “I wouldn’t give him a temple recommend”… whaa? I’ve always thought one of the best things about the gospel is we’re not expected, asked or required to judge. But it sounds like plenty of you are ready to take on that responsibility.
Look, Beck can be nuts.. but I don’t think he’s dealing in hate.. not even fear-mongering. But he is asking questions about the government.. which a lot of people are.. and a lot of people think it’s needed. He often says he hopes he’s wrong, but feels a warning must go out. A lot of what he’s talking about echoes the concerns of a man named Ezra Taft Benson.. who could get a bit worked up himself. Look up clips on YouTube. Good Mormon? Or was Benson dealing in hate?
I do feel there’s a lot going on in this country that God’s not to hot on. What Beck says isn’t gospel, but I believe if we truly knew what was going on with the politicians in this country, world… it would be stunning.
In the meantime.. how about letting up on the hypocrisy and pretending hate and judgement are gospel principals?
Comment by Keith — September 1, 2009 @ 4:15 am
Keith,
You talk about hate?
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200509090003
Glenn Beck “hates” 9/11 families. Don’t come knocking on my door about hate dude.
Oh and yes, Ezra Taft Benson dabbled with hate, mostly though, ignorance. He let himself get too wrapped up by some guy named W. Cleon Skousen, who was a real piece of work. But hey, prophets are human beings and are liable to make mistakes too.
Comment by Dan — September 1, 2009 @ 6:37 am
Yeah, W. Cleon Skousen, whom Beck singlehandedly propelled to the upper reaches of Amazon’s bestseller list, was an FBI agent who lied about his credentials to pretend that he had this massive secret experience dealing with commies and used that to leverage a second career as an anti-communist scare-monger. But, you see, it was all made up. I don’t recall Benson talking about the “communist menace” after he became prophet.
Comment by djinn — September 1, 2009 @ 7:03 am
#218
Ah, thank you. I understand now. There has been a lot of talk of “judgment” in this thread and I was wondering if there was any room between “judgment” and “loving correction” in your doctrine.
Love the sinner but hate the sin still leaves room (in my understanding, anyway) to actually HATE the sin and not to ignore it simply because we are indeed called to love the sinner.
Comment by Not LDS but with a question — September 1, 2009 @ 8:45 am
@219,
Keith, 218 posts before you and you excerpt that one sentence?
You can go back through the comments and read what has already been said including these clear examples of fear-mongering:
-calling advisers radical marxists. Multiple people have provided supporting details showing why that’s wrong.
-calling Americorp Obama’s civilian army
You will also see many clear examples of people, commenters here, who do *not* hate Glenn Beck but don’t understand what motivates him to say so many untrue things and to insinuate without evidence that Obama is acting in bad faith. I’m trying to understand Glenn Beck. Seeking understanding is not an act of judgment on the person. Though we may judge his actions harmful, an understanding of the motivations can help us reconcile his behavior with that of a decent, honest man.
Comment by barnetto — September 1, 2009 @ 8:53 am
Well, its been a fun topic. But I think I’m done (unless I see any evidence that we can stop talking past each other).
ciao
Comment by barnetto — September 1, 2009 @ 8:54 am
#204&5, get with the program, the ravens fired billick 2 years ago, it’s all about heap
Comment by dude in balto — September 1, 2009 @ 9:01 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubzG1CFi8cs&feature=player_embedded
Glenn Beck’s violent language leads to this sort of thing: you know the breaking up of this great country of ours, the dividing, and inevitably, the killing.
Comment by Dan — September 1, 2009 @ 10:16 am
re: 218
How ironic…Glenn talks about killing people, but he doesn’t deal in hate. However, those who criticize his words do. Interesting…
Comment by Derek — September 1, 2009 @ 3:27 pm
Re 224 -
Yes, you’ll notice that I referenced Billick and the Ravens in past tense. But thanks for proving my point with the Heap comment.
Comment by queuno — September 1, 2009 @ 3:33 pm
@225 Appointing multiple communists, marxists, and socialists to high cabinet positions is what is going to break this country up. Not Glenn asking some questions about it.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,545360,00.html
He’s using their words, not his own.
Comment by Me — September 2, 2009 @ 4:10 am
Britt: 189 You really didn’t understand my point in 188 when you said:
“So what I’m getting is that you want the right to have women have the priesthood, question GA’s and prophets, attack Julie Beck, question the proclamation on the family-and after that what you want from Salt Lake is a welcome, a listening ear and a seat at the table…yet because Glenn Beck works for Fox news HE shouldn’t have a recommend?”
I want equal dignity & spiritual development for women and men, and want each of us to have the right to question when unrighteous dominion occurs. We seem to allow Glen Beck to state his opinion on controversial issues, and I want that to occur, even when he is obnoxious and at odds with my opinion on subjects. I want our SP and GA’s to allow women to pay tithing under their own name and allow us to schedule a meeting without our white, male presiding autorities required to schedule and attend that meeting. I also want them to stop using my temple recommend renewal as a way to strong arm my less active husband into doing their bidding. Judge each of us on our own strengths. I am asking the LDS Church to “do better” and comparing and contrasting the treatment of Glen Beck and someone like me, who can be bullied easily if I object to wishing to pay tithing under my own name and be treated with a shred of dignity in my stake. It is akin to asking the LDS Church to stop punishing people for being against racism. I want them to stop being so sexist and allow women to make reasonable requests, such as recognition of financial contributions by women. You did an interesting approach, by extending what I said to prophets then changing the point made in 188 to an objection of Glen Beck and free speech. I like the fact that he is LDS and he is allowed to state his opinion. Mormons vary and it should be acceptable, however it is generally only acceptable in men. That is why I wrote:
“If Glen Beck were a woman, I doubt he would be able to remain in the LDS Church, or in the public sphere, because he voices his opinions so fearlessly and at times, obnoxiously.”
I don’t even know who Julie Beck is, so the claim that she was attacked was from left field, as was much of your response.
I want all of us to engage in meta-cognitive and tranformative thinking, which includes discussion of who, what, where, when, how and what-if. Comparing and contrasting is great, but try to stay factual in the discussion.
Comment by Jo — September 2, 2009 @ 8:10 am
not LDS-
I have and I will continue to poke my nose when it seems fit. for example:
I used to attend the ward with a family with a few children who were Emotionally Disturbed. These parents did not treat their disorders and chose instead to resort to corporal punishment, and derisive language as a means to “control” their childrens behavior. Increadably sad. One Sunday Bro. Meanie chased his middle son out into the foyer and proceeded to hit him while he was huddled in the corner with a closed fist. I HAD to step in. I did it in as loving way as possible, told Bro. Meanie to calm down, made a joke to difuse tension then went directly to talk to the bishop. I told the bishop then that I would be calling CPS to investigate this family, and he asked me NOT to. Did I listen to the Bishop? Nope. And I proceeded to tell him that the Spirit tells me that to ignore such transgressions is tantamount to committing them and that I would be more than happy to not call CPS as long as the bishop DID. So I suppose I called to task two men that day. I also know that by remaining calm yet firm I gained the respect of my bishop and he would often seek out my advice in many instances. He was a good humble man.
So yes, perfecting the saints is one of the 3 fold missions of the church. Most days that whole thing blows my mind (it is an unachievable goal on this mortal plain no?) but in instances like the above I felt like it was the right thing to do. Just like I feel if I ever needed to sustain Glenn Beck in a leadership calling I would be unable to. I would have to raise my hand when asked “any opposed”. Not because of his political beliefs ( I have sustained many leaders who believe differently than I do) but because I feel like his tactic and approach is wrong and contrary to the spirit.
Comment by just call me cassandra — September 2, 2009 @ 9:51 am
…….
I can’t believe this hasn’t come up yet. But have you all caught wind of this?
http://glennbeckrapedandmurderedayounggirlin1990.com/
or here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DydBxorhc
When I heard about this last night, I was apalled, and really thought people went over the line. I do not think rape is joking matter, and I do not believe that two wrongs make a right. Yes, Glenn Beck does horrible things, but does that mean we should do horrible things to him? No.
However, actually reading these things, and watching that video, the remarkable thing is that the whole thing is a huge parody. They are using Beck’s exact phrasings. They are using his exact reasoning style. And they are turning it all onto him.
So while I still don’t think it’s appropriate, I think it’s hardly surprising to see his own tactics turned against him in such an insidious fashion.
What do you all think?
Comment by Natalie K. — September 2, 2009 @ 3:59 pm
Jo, I really wasn’t referring specifically to you. I see how because it followed your post you could think that. Someone had mentioned if they were his Bishop they couldn’t give him a temple recommend…it just struck me that without interviewing him and seeing what he was really like and what was going on, that would be the call.
i don’t understand the tithing thing or your specific situation. I absolutely see why you feel like that is sexist. With ideal leaders tithing could be delicate in a part member family, and your leaders hardly sound ideal.
I was just responding to FMH as a whole..there is room for a lot of questioning and variety of behaviors-behaviors in one direction only. Questioning the prophet okay…questioning the president not-well not Obama… GB’s humor is obviously questionable to me..yet some people here watch R rated movies…is his humor more questionable than the R rated movies watched? Maybe, because it is real people.
Comment by britt — September 2, 2009 @ 5:00 pm
Have any of you seen this video of Glenn speaking at BYU?
http://www.kbyutv.org/patrioticservice/
(You will need to click on his picture to watch the video. Glenn doesn’t speak until after the hapfway mark, so you can slide the little Y way over to the right)
Warning: If you just want to make fun of him for crying then don’t bother watching.
Comment by Mikey P — September 2, 2009 @ 6:00 pm
Thank you for the clarification britt (232). It seemed out of character.
I can explain the function of the bishop and SP’s behavior in my ward. My husband is a quiet, bright engineer, who makes twice my income and converted before we transferred to this state.
They were using me to encourage him to more fully financially participate by barring my temple recommend renewal until he paid his share of tithing and then we could “go to the temple together.” In education, we call it strong arming, similar to teachers punishing a sister because a brother won’t behave.
The answer given to me when I asked that my tithing be credited under my own name, not the name of my husband who they consider “head of household” was, “We don’t do it that way.”
So I stopped paying the $250 per month to a religion that won’t recognize my contribution, and the the situation became very oppressive.
I hope that clarifies why I asked for clarification. I appreciate your intelligent debate on this topic and really liked your defense of free speech.
Comment by Jo — September 2, 2009 @ 10:09 pm
re: 231
I get really annoyed when people who don’t like Glenn Beck talk in violent and other disgusting ways about him. It’s no better from people with whom I agree than from those I disagree.
But like you said, it is hardly surprising. What goes around comes around.
Re: 232
Where has FMH put the kibosh on questioning in other directions? Where has FMH banned people for questioning Obama? Just because some/many of us disagree with you doesn’t mean other viewpoints aren’t allowed. The only thing which isn’t allowed, as far as I can see, is people trying to end the debate by saying “that is what the bishop/prophet/manual said, and to say anything different is evil.” Once again, as I’ve said several times: the reason most of us who are complaining about Beck so dislike him is not his positions, it’s his mean-spirited, vulgar methods.
About his humor: In the first place, it is purely conjecture whether or not it is humor. the death threats against Pelosi and others and his slander of the Cal fire victims are delivered in exactly the same tone as his other criticisms of liberals and liberalism. The only evidence we have that it is humor is that his defenders say it is humor (but his other criticisms are not, apparently). Pretty flimsy evidence.
But even if we assume it is humor, then the comparison with rated-r movies doesn’t work. There are all sorts of rated-R movies. Some use “r” content to make very important, poignant, and meaningful messages (Schindler’s list). Others use “r” content in extremely puerile ways (any number of other movies). Just because some are willing to view the former doesn’t mean they don’t have enough discrimination to avoid the latter. Now, does Beck’s content regarding killing people make any meaningful message? Or does it just appeal to our baser instincts? Is there anything in his delivery which differentiates it from the more rational criticisms of liberalism he may have? Not that I’ve seen. And, as you yourself noted, he is talking about real situations and real people, which also makes a difference.
re: 233
Nice video. It is rather hard to take that side of Beck seriously when we so frequently see this other, extremely ugly side.
Comment by Derek — September 2, 2009 @ 10:21 pm
Derek, I’m really talking theoretically here, as I’ve still never managed a GB clip.
Maybe I should go watch a few so I understand what is so distasteful to so many here.
I’m a very visual person. I’ve never seen an r rated movie, but a few pg movies have branded images on my mind I’d rather not have there…even when the image was connected to something poignant. I think poignant messages don’t need searing images.
FMH doesn’t ban people for speaking out against obama, It’s just that the majority voted for him and would eagerly defend him…as well as defend a number of liberal positions. It’s a liberal board. That’s fine. It’s would be interesting if GB were liberal but used his same style and same types of jokes. I wonder what the back lash here would be.
Comment by britt — September 2, 2009 @ 10:33 pm
236
I have yet to see a liberal commentator use GB tactics. That is a crazy Right Wing thing, which is why I am a center leftist. I will take elitism over rabid extremism any day.
Comment by just call me cassandra — September 2, 2009 @ 11:09 pm
re: 236
I think that if there was a liberal Mormon who so persistently played on animosity and hate, we’d be just as ashamed of him.
(there are certainly some poignant messages which can be told after-school special style. There are other important messages and themes addressing serious issues which cannot be addressed without controversial content. but that’s another topic).
re: 237
There are some liberals who use the same sort of hatemongering. I’ve mentioned some of them earlier here. But I do find it interesting that they seem to be much more prominent on the Right. The far right wing is dominated by the Michael Savages, Hannity’s, O’Reilly’s, Becks, Coulters, et, of the world. The far left wing conversation is lead by the Howard Zinns, Noam Chomsky’s, Ralph Naders, and Dennis Kuciniches of the world. Quite a contrast in tone and content.
Comment by Derek — September 3, 2009 @ 12:11 am
yeah the whole line thing left right is pretty lame, I like the nolan chart better. Upper right hand corner for me.
Comment by sturgeon — September 3, 2009 @ 1:08 am
Derek,
#238,
Also, the Howard Zinns, Noam Chomskys, Ralph Naders and Dennis Kuciniches of the left don’t hold much of any control on policy and strategy for the left, whereas on the right, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reily, Glenn Beck, and Rush Limbaugh are in full control of the strategy and path of the right. Note in particular when a Republican Congressman dares to criticize Limbaugh, the very next day he retracts his criticism and speaks highly of the Rush. Sarah Palin, the VP candidate for the Republican party (and possible candidate in 2012) specifically said in a Facebook note that everyone should listen to Glenn Beck because Glenn Beck says it how it is on 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
There is no comparison between the nuts on the left and the nuts on the right. The right have allowed the nuts to take charge of the entire conservative political discourse. Conservatives ought to be ashamed.
Comment by Dan — September 3, 2009 @ 7:14 am
I wonder if it is not like the repugnant right-winger in the movie “The Last Supper”, who is targeted by a group of liberal young professionals who invite people to dinner and kill them if they don’t change their “wrong” ways of thinking. The right-winger turns out to be very centrist in his true views, and states that he spews such crap on his show because getting people riled up is the only way to get them to care enough to actually do something to make real change. I for one agree to a point and believe that the 2-party system and general voter apathy are the ultimate downfalls of America.
Strange movie, but good moral to the story. Could be Beck is along these lines.
Comment by Chad — September 3, 2009 @ 9:57 am
Sorry, was gonna give a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Supper_(1995_film)
Comment by Chad — September 3, 2009 @ 9:58 am
Sorry Chad, but I have to disagree. It seems as though these extreme tactics are having negative outcomes for the Republican party as well. They have been backed into a corner where no healthcare reform is the only platform that can be discussed by the right wing. Bipartisanship is being thrown right out the window.
see thisarticle.
Comment by just call me cassandra — September 3, 2009 @ 11:21 am
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/09/03/it-gets-worse/
The fruits of Glenn Beck’s poison.
Comment by Dan — September 3, 2009 @ 11:15 pm
Time to walk away, Dan. The post was about finding commonality and walking the tightrope of treating others as you would like to be treated. If they do a post on “how can i feed the fires of vitriol and entrenched attitudes,”…we know who to call.
Comment by crazywomancreek — September 3, 2009 @ 11:18 pm
yeah, it felt like I was pushing too much. The story isn’t over though. It’s just beginning.
Comment by Dan — September 3, 2009 @ 11:26 pm
I really hate Glenn Beck. Now it’s back to street riots and marxist fantasizing for me.
Comment by Van Jones — September 6, 2009 @ 10:16 pm
Here’s another Glenn Beck gem - August 24 edition of Headline News…
“I work at Radio City in midtown Manhattan, and up by the doors, you know, like where the — you know — the office kitchen is, in Braille, on the wall, it says “kitchen.” You’d have to — a blind person would have to be feeling all of the walls to find “kitchen.” Just to piss them off, I’m going to put in Braille on the coffee pot — I’m going to put, “Pot is hot.” Ow!”
Such a thoughtful caring person - once again taking advantage of his megaphone to help make us a wiser and kinder nation.
Comment by Betty Jo — September 7, 2009 @ 11:18 am
I think Beck should be excommunicated, otherwise it shows hate speech is tolerated by member of the church—and that’s something I will never believe in.
Comment by toasty — September 7, 2009 @ 2:56 pm
I really don’t see the conundrum here. Glen Beck may be the nicest guy you will ever meet, and he may be an active member of the LDS church, but so what. He makes millions of dollars a year promoting vile and contentious- not to mention very easily debunked- hate speech. You might agree with his position on a lot of issues, but that doesn’t make him right. A lot of seemingly nice people, who champion traditional values, also take advantage of people and commit numerous immoral acts. I can see why a lot of Mormons would like him- first of all he is Mormon; second, he is a conservative commentator on the favorite news program of Republicans. But, on the other hand, he uses hatred and fear to promote his own political views with no apparent concern for truth.
I think the questions that need to be asked are: Does a faithful (temple-worthy) Mormon have a responsibility to avoid hate and deceit or to promote truth? Is it appropriate to misinform or deceive others in order to scare them away from something you may genuinely believe is wrong?
I personally am disappointed in Beck’s behavior- not only as a Mormon, but as a human being; and, I would not consider myself worthy of a temple recommend if I made my fortunes by spewing hate, inciting fear, attacking others, and misinforming the public. But, I leave it up to Beck and his leaders to decide on that issue in his case.
By the way, for those Beck defenders who don’t think it is fair to criticize his behavior, here is one more small example to include with those already listed:
Glen Beck Show Clip
Comment by Raindog — September 9, 2009 @ 7:16 am
He’s an entertainer. What he says is mostly supposed to be funny or ironic and not taken seriously. Sure, it may be in bad taste — but sometimes that shock is to get people to think about things we take for granted.
Do all Jews have to love/agree with Adam Sandler, or Joe Lieberman, or other Jewish public figures? Nope. I think we can allow Mormons the same freedom.
Comment by Andrea — September 15, 2009 @ 9:38 pm
*Hate speech is fundamentally at odds with LDS doctrine, irregardless of the source.*
To imply that all Mormons are deaf to these insensitive rants, complicit supporters, or are like minded by association of religion to one Glenn Beck is a reprehensible distortion of the facts. Those who truly understand our religion know we do not return hate for hate. The silence you hear from so many is not tacit agreement, but rather an adherence to the age old adage, “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.”
Comment by helpdeskdan — October 20, 2009 @ 10:28 pm
Re: helpdeskdan-# 252
“The silence you hear from so many is not tacit agreement, but rather an adherence to the age old adage, “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.”
This would limit the conversation.
Comment by Jo — October 20, 2009 @ 11:15 pm
Hello,
I am not a Mormon nor a housewife - but I am a femininist
Somehow I followed some links and found myself reading Reese Dixon’s article, and agreeing with every word. I truly dislike Glenn Beck and feel that he is contributing dangerously to the animosity that seems to be flowing out of every media outlet right now.
I don’t know much about the Mormon faith. To be very honest, a young missionary came by my house one day a long time ago, left me the Book of Mormon, which I read in part, and found it to be difficult to swallow. I am a skeptic from birth. I consider it both a blessing and a curse, from the Creator or from pure dumb luck, depending on what day of the week it is.
I tell you this because I wanted to give you my mindset when I started reading your comments. I was prepared to find a bunch of (I’m really sorry!) ignorant people.
What I have found here is the most intelligent, thought-provoking and kindly discourse I have found on Glenn Beck in my many months of internet surfing. I still really despise Glenn Beck, but now I can see him at least as *human* and not devil spawn. I still think is is extremely dangerous to civility, and believe that unless *something* is done we will have a generation of truly hate-filled and ignorant people, armed with guns and money, and no idea what they’re doing except “Glenn’s will”. But at least I know there are people out there in what is the heartland of the country, who have intelligence AND integrity and do not easily fall for hatred just because it’s promoted by somone with a high profile.
Thank you, folks, and best wishes.
Comment by Lianne — October 22, 2009 @ 5:19 pm
This place has that effect on people…
Comment by Lorian — October 22, 2009 @ 8:05 pm
Glenn Beck has no integrity, he is not honest, and he doesn’t even believe the stuff he’s telling people. He says one thing and does another. He calls for healthcare when Bush is in office and then acts like its the end of the U.S. when Obama tries to pass it. The people writing his checks are some of the most shady high-rollers there are. Its obvious he works for special interest, especially when most of the funding comes from big drug companies.
Comment by Kyle L. — November 10, 2009 @ 3:48 am
GB is not only an embarassment to LDS people he is an embarassment to the U.S. I dislike him because I have to try to explain away his ugly words to nonLDS people. I also have to explain away any one that supports his hateful, fear propaganda. I used to believe that we as LDS people use to support love and peace. He would not scare me so much if people just thought he was good entertainment, I was surprised to find out people actually believe his twisted evil propaganda
Comment by Nikki l — December 10, 2009 @ 5:38 pm
I, too, am dismayed and disappointed both by Glenn Beck’s “message” and the blind, cult-like support from LDS members who seem to have “itching ears” and a willingness to overlook his hypocrisy and lies solely because he is a member of the church.
Opinions aside, Glenn has shown (in his own words) himself to be a liar and hypocrite. There are numerous clips from his tv and radio shows available for anyone willing to do a little bit of research. Misrepresenting the truth or couching opinion around erroneous “facts” unfortunately seem to be the norm for most Talk Shows these days, but Mr Beck has shown himself to be almost pathalogical in lying about things of no consequence. ie, the supposed “suicide” of his mother (as he claims) which is not supported by official reports in the Washington state, or his lying about circumstances on his Amtrak train ride and “reserved seats” and his invitation to guest on the show “The View” with Barbara Walters and Whoopie Goldberg, to name a few.
He has also shown behaviour unbecoming “a faithful member of the church” in the rants and yellling, absolute screaming, at callers into his radio show and his disdain for 9/11 victim’s families (”…complainers ” who should be hit in the head with a shovel) and others who do not follow his radical rhetoric.
I agree with many posts who say we should not judge others. I do not know Glenn’s sincerity. But his actions are contradictory to his faith’s directives. Didn’t someone once say, “by their words (and actions) you may know them” ?
Comment by Simpletoon — December 27, 2009 @ 6:32 pm
Enough about Beck. Whether you like him or not, our country was being taken to the sharks by left winged loons and he helped stir up conservatives to action for the first time ever! And, and, its working. That’s really all that matters.
By the way, how come they don’t have a music category on this site. I’d love to talk about good church music, or music in general. Has anyone heard of April Meservy? I recently bought her c.d. and she is one of very few mormon artists that have an original sound. Check her out– www.aprilmeservy.com
Comment by Johnd — April 15, 2010 @ 8:30 pm
Johnd, there are many threads about music here — favorite hymns, musical styles, what’s acceptable in Sacrament meeting, etc. As for Beck, you’re welcome to him. Each to his own. I seem to recall a certain “right wing loon” who road this country to disaster over much of the past decade, unfortunately.
Comment by Lorian — April 15, 2010 @ 8:42 pm
I am thoroughly convinced that Glenn Beck is mentally disturbed.
Comment by Emily — June 25, 2010 @ 12:11 am
Emily~Clever! Okay, I’ll play. My daughter, who is mentally ill, but not stupid, is afraid to go to church because she has such a serious reaction when the people in our ward act like everybody who is an Idaho Mormon loves Glen Beck. She has to stay away from crazies in order to maintain her equilibrium.
I don’t worry about him as much as I did before I came to fMh. I was convinced, that some of the members would follow him right out of the church. My friends and relatives attitudes had seemed that extreme. I have always been odd-man-out among that group, but I realize now, that there are many members who would not . Even. many conservatives within the church believe he is nuts-all-the-way-to-the-bank.
Comment by IdahoG-ma — June 25, 2010 @ 9:19 am
I think it is kinda great that the thing that has finally cooled my dad to Beck is his ravings about soccer, of all things. I can’t put my finger on it, but there is something truly wonderful about that.
Comment by Starfoxy — June 25, 2010 @ 9:57 am
idaho gma…I find glenn beck too emotional for me and frankly too loud. He’s sensational in the attention seeking way. The people I know who “follow” GB generally check his sources and sometimes agree and sometimes don’t. That seems much healthier to me and doesn’t bother me as much as the forward everything GB says as absolute truth people-whom I am finding are actually few in number. (BUT very loud and email forward happy)
I don’t know enough about him to classify him as crazy and I don’t know that I appreciate the classification…because it seems to stem from at least partially from his different view point. Is everyone who compared George Bush to Hitler also crazy? or was that accurate
I think crazy is different from sensational. I think Michael Moore is sensational..but not crazy…that sort of thing. They both tend towards hyperbole.. GB is 20% political opinion and 80% entertainment and emotional workout. (from the little I’ve seen.
Comment by britt k — June 25, 2010 @ 10:04 am
BrittK~I think your summation is probably pretty close. I am coming around to believing that most people watch because they are addicted to the rage and outrage. Unfortunately, I do still know too many who believe him completely, but I have come to realize that my particular circle of friends and family are extreme. I do have to wonder about his sanity. Seriously, he says things that would get him a certified diagnosis in the psychiatrist office. If I had told my shrink that God had been talking to me she would set me up for further testing.
Comment by IdahoG-ma — June 25, 2010 @ 10:31 am
I have never heard anyone in our ward as much as mention Glenn Beck. I watched him for a little while occasionally just to see what he was doing, but he is very dramatic, and so…a bit too much for my tastes. I used to worry what people would think about him being Mormon. But then I think…why is it that people get to pound a whole religion for one person’s personal characteristics. If someone is Catholic or Jewish or Baptist and is commenting on politics it rarely is THE issue. I have heard him say a few things that I thought were right on and then mostly just think he is on one big rant. I actually haven’t heard him in months. We follow the prophet, not a pundit…or whatever he is.
Comment by Melissa P. — June 25, 2010 @ 11:46 am
Melissa P. #266
I believe the difference is that Beck has *made* his Mormon faith an issue. He’s talked about it very publically, including publishing a video about his and his family’s conversion.
When politicians and news people and public figures talk publically about their religious beliefs and make them an issue in their public life, then of course everyone around them will *consider* their faith an issue. The fact that Beck has been so open about his conversion to Mormonism right around the same time that the Mormon church brought itself so broadly into the political limelight with its sponsorship of Prop 8 only adds fuel to the fire.
If you recall, Jimmy Carter made an issue of his Baptist faith during his campaign and presidency and it became a much-discussed issue surrounding his presidency. Obama talked openly about his faith and his attendance at the United Church of Christ, and his political opponents went after his pastor and published comments from his sermons that they felt would offend the voting public.
I really can’t see how Beck is being treated differently than other public figures who make an issue of their religious beliefs in the public square.
Comment by Lorian — June 25, 2010 @ 12:43 pm
I remember what a big deal they made out of JFK’s catholic status, also. But mostly, I think the Mormon’s themselves are the ones making the big deal out of it. Or maybe I should say did. At least on this site, I’d say the bloom is off the rose.
Comment by IdahoG-ma — June 25, 2010 @ 1:07 pm
Mitt Romney didn’t make a big deal out of his mormonism and others surely did. He did finally speak about it, but he was never the instigator and frequently tried to bring the conversation back to focus.
Idaho gma…so if I feel my prayers have been answered am I a nut? answers to prayers aren’t considered nutty in the south…we might as well say all people who believe in God are suffering from delusions.
Comment by britt k — June 25, 2010 @ 2:12 pm
britt k #269 - Romney is another one who, while he may not have made as big of a deal of his Mormon faith as Beck did, was involved in anti-gay discrimination (trying to repeal gay marriage in Massachusetts, after supporting it earlier in his career) around the same time as the church was involving itself in anti-gay campaigns throughout the country. It’s hard for me to believe that his Mormon faith was not relevant to that issue. I can certainly understand why his political opponents and the news media would see it as relevant.
Comment by Lorian — June 25, 2010 @ 2:21 pm
Point being, I’m not at all sure that Mormon politicians and public figures face more scrutiny for their religious beliefs than do other politicians. In fact, I remember Kerry’s Catholicism being quite a hot topic, as well.
Which brings to mind what the concern is in these cases where a politician’s religious beliefs are brought into question:
The concern is generally whether or not a politician’s religious beliefs, and the religious authority figures to whom s/he gives some level of allegiance, present a risk of undue influence should that politician be elected to public office. In Kerry’s case, bishops were denying him the ability to receive communion when he attended mass in their diocese, because of his public position on legal abortion. The question was whether or not he would, if elected, become a “tool” of the Catholic Church or the Pope to unduly influence public policy in our country.
Same for Romney. It’s well known that the LDS Church heavily influences politics in SLC and Utah at large. Would an LDS president allow that influence to come to bear upon the country at large if he were elected?
It’s a fair question.
In Beck’s situation, the influence is a bit more indirect, but still there. If he speaks as a mouthpiece for the church hierarchy (I’m not saying he does or does not — just stating why his religious beliefs are relevant to discussion, particularly when he makes them so by discussing them publically), is giving him a bully pulpit of his own show on a major news network actually giving that bully pulpit to the church hierarchy? It’s a fair question, again, I think.
One reason why Catholics and LDS might face a bit more of this sort of questioning than members of other religions, is that those particular institutions are heavily hierarchical in nature. They are not organized around the local congregation and a single minister, or even an area network of churches. They are organized, and receive directives, from a single, world-wide authority, which is passed down through rank up on rank of lesser authorities to a mostly-obedient follower-base. There is not a lot of room for loud, public dissention in Roman Catholicism. Those who do so, who openly challenge the church’s authority, are subject to excommunication. There is, arguably, even less room for public dissention in the LDS church, as those who have been outspoken about various topics, from Mother God to their own homosexuality, know well.
Does that mean Romney would allow church authorities to run our government if he were elected? Or that Kerry would consult the Pope before issuing executive orders? Probably not. But it’s a valid discussion point, I think. I doubt either one, would, personally. But I’m a little more suspicious of Romney because of his complete about-face to the gay community on the issue of marriage while he was governor of Massachusetts.
Comment by Lorian — June 25, 2010 @ 2:35 pm
Those are good points Lorain.
Of course not, but if you have ever been evaluated for mental illness one of the questions you get asked is “Do you ever get directives from voices or beings that others can’t see.” (Actually, I can’t remember the exact wording) but that is close. No one thinks people who get answers to their prayers are crazy. I didn’t say that at all. But Glen thinks he has to go to the steps of the Lincoln Memorial to tells us the revelation he got from God, yeah, professionals would look into that in further evaluation, whether they decided he was crazy or not would depend on what else he said. I’m just telling you what I know about mental evaluation. I don’t personally try to upset you Britt, but you and I are not going to agree on much as our political views are so different. And I don’t mind defending what I say, I would just like it to be what I actually say. Just state your case. don’t look for a meaning that isn’t there.
Comment by IdahoG-ma — June 25, 2010 @ 3:00 pm
This is such a difficult issue. As is evidenced by nearing 300 posts, Glen Beck is one of those issues that we can go around, and around, and around…
For me, the issue isn’t so much Beck himself. I can’t do a darn thing about whether he spreads his poison or not. When I express frustration with him, many people shrug and say “free speech”, though. Shouldn’t there be a point where people stand up and say “this isn’t ok”. CAN there be a point like that before people are ready to ride someone out of town on a rail, or does it just give the person in question the ability to say “Look, I TOLD you people were out to get me for telling the truth” and “Help, help, I’m being repressed! Witness the violence inherent in the system!”
Comment by JWalton — June 25, 2010 @ 3:30 pm
That is a good question JW, I think that was one of the things that Emily was worried about in her original comment on the other thread. Is he enough of a problem for the church to warrant a closer look?
Comment by IdahoG-ma — June 25, 2010 @ 3:40 pm
Personally, I think that he crossed the line back before Easter, when he advocated walking out of church if people spoke about social welfare…because, of course, that really means communism.
“I’m begging you, your right to religion and freedom to exercise religion and read all of the passages of the Bible as you want to read them and as your church wants to preach them . . . are going to come under the ropes in the next year. If it lasts that long it will be the next year. I beg you, look for the words ’social justice’ or ‘economic justice’ on your church Web site. If you find it, run as fast as you can. Social justice and economic justice, they are code words. Now, am I advising people to leave their church? Yes!”
http://loydo38.blogspot.com/2010/03/glenn-beck-urges-mormons-to-leave.html
Are people writing letters to church leaders? Are they aware of the dangerous direction he’s heading?
Comment by JWalton — June 25, 2010 @ 5:04 pm
idaho gma…I’m not upset…I’m just trying to thread out what is crazy about GB and what is not.
answers to prayers=not automatically crazy
is attention seeking behavior automaticallyy crazy?
how about the loud drama stuff?
Comment by britt k — June 25, 2010 @ 5:18 pm
No, obnoxious, is not crazy. It is any disconnect with reality that gets the mental health community concerned. It’s not how loud you act, it’s all about what you think. I worry a little about Glen because he says things that are so paranoid. I just can’t really tell if he actually believes them or not. But in all fairness, I don’t watch him enough to establish much of a baseline. I just thought it was all about showmanship till lately.
Comment by IdahoG-ma — June 25, 2010 @ 5:29 pm
And the fact is, I’d like to see Pat Robertson evaluated for :loony-toons: for some of the “messages from God” that HE imparts in the media.
“Haiti was hit by an earthquake because they have a pact with the devil,” anyone?
There goes that danged eye-twitch again.
Comment by Lorian — June 25, 2010 @ 5:40 pm
Oh, yes. I’d almost forgot about him. Holy Smokes!
Comment by IdahoG-ma — June 25, 2010 @ 6:33 pm
Well, he’s smokin’ something. Not sure if it’s holy or not.
Comment by Lorian — June 25, 2010 @ 6:51 pm
Oh, man, I’m glad I didn’t say Holy Crap.
Comment by IdahoG-ma — June 25, 2010 @ 9:20 pm
By the way, you are smart and funny. Way cool.
Comment by IdahoG-ma — June 25, 2010 @ 9:21 pm
Comment by Lorian — June 25, 2010 @ 9:32 pm
JWalton,
I think the best thing we can do is ignore the man. If we stand up and tell him you have crossed a line, then we are playing into his hands just as much as we would be if we agreed with everything he said. The best way to get rid of him is to ignore him.
Comment by queenlucy — June 26, 2010 @ 12:31 pm
I wish I could see that as the case, but there’s still a little voice in the back of my head that says that it’s dangerous. Perhaps something akin (at the risk of invoking Godwin’s Law) to folks pretending everything was ok in 20’s Germany.
Besides, he doesn’t have to live with the zombies he spawns. I do, unfortunately, and they don’t listen to reason. It’s hit a point with several people I know where it’s risking affecting how solidly they’re in the church, even though they have no idea, because one can’t feel that much fear and paranoia *and* the Holy Spirit. It’s impossible, and it leaves them open to thinking that anything else that makes them that afraid is of God, because Mr. Beck couldn’t possibly be lying to them to make money…no, sir…
Comment by JWalton — June 26, 2010 @ 6:11 pm
JW, can I call you JW? I like short, ’cause I comment a lot. I’ve had those same thoughts. I know I could not live that way. Not that I’m all that solid in the church, but I like to keep close to Christ, and there is no way that happens with out a bit of Zen in our lives. I’ve been mulling over your idea about writing to Salt Lake; I actually think it’s a good idea. Hmm, I wonder if I’ll get a form letter like I do when I write my congressmen. One telling me they are aware of the problem, but I am wrong to worry, so thanks for my input, but no thanks. Or if they already have so many they don’t know what to do with them. For all we know, they could be in correlation discussing it right now. Really, what can they do? It’s got to be a huge headache.
Comment by IdahoG-ma — June 26, 2010 @ 6:46 pm
JWalton, my point wasn’t that we shouldn’t speak out about the politics and the issues, but attacking the ONE person because of his views no matter how outlandish or ridiculous they are isn’t going to get us anywhere. I don’t like Beck, at all, but my focus isn’t on him, if I made it my duty to see to his demise, it would probably just add fuel to the fire.
Trust me, I know my share of Beckdrones, whenever they come at me with things, I do research and get back to them with whatever they were talking about. I encourage people to research things and find out for themselves. It takes an awful lot of time, but I’ve found that it is well worth the time when it comes to talking to people about issues. I don’t really care what you think/ believe as long as you have thought about it and know what you are talking about.
I wasn’t talking about sitting back and letting things just slide through, I was talking about making the issues the focus, not Mr. Beck. Ignore the man, focus on the issues.
Comment by queenlucy — June 26, 2010 @ 8:00 pm
I have wondered if they do have that discussion sometimes. Maybe someone will call him up and say calm down.
Comment by Melissa P. — June 26, 2010 @ 8:01 pm
You are right. I have also found out the power this has in all political areas. It’s a great brain exercise too. I think of it as warding off Dementia. So, far so good.
Comment by IdahoG-ma — June 26, 2010 @ 8:20 pm
IdahoG-ma, JW works just fine
I’m debating back and forth about writing a letter. True, all that could happen might be getting a form letter back. You’d think, though, that with all the effort that the church puts into PR these days that someone, somewhere, would be concerned about Beck’s stances slowly stepping further and further away from the church.
queenlucy, I like that approach. Do you go that rout when people treat Beck and co. as an irreproachable resource, and then want you to site sources on demand(or are dismissive of your proof)? Part of my frustration stems from having family that I can’t afford to get in a debate with, and so I keep needing to work very hard to find a balance where I’m polite, but don’t back down.
Comment by JWalton — June 27, 2010 @ 11:00 am
Oh, sister, I hear that!
Comment by IdahoG-ma — June 27, 2010 @ 11:24 am
Since I was actually afraid of the consequences of people believing Glen and his ilk, I realized, I, also was coming from a place of fear, and that I needed to put that into perspective to get out of dangerous trap. I realized all I can do is gently state the truth as I know it and let them pay whatever consequences they have to pay for buying into the hate and fear and rage. As JW put earlier, fear is the enemy of the spirit.
Comment by IdahoG-ma — June 27, 2010 @ 11:40 am
JWalton,
I’ve had many discussions about the difference between primary sources, secondary sources, bias, argument, propaganda, etc. Which is where I think the best place to start is. Once a person can differentiate between those things, it is a lot easier to have an open and frank discussion with them.
I usually keep my sources to primary sources, e.g. the actual health care bill, instead of articles about it. So when someone comes to me and says, well this is what Beck said, I say “Huh, I’ve been wondering about that, I’ll have to look into it.”, and then I try to find it and get back to them about my research. Even if I come to dead ends, I’ll get back to them about coming to dead ends. (I do that with more than just the conservative point of view, I’m a natural skeptic.)
The other thing that I do is active listening about their point of view. I’ll listen, then repeat what they’ve said in my own words. That helps in letting them know that I want to have a conversation not a confrontation. If I really have nothing good to say at the moment, I’ll defer and bring it up again later saying things like “so remember when you told me about your perspective on this issue? Well, I looked into it some more and found some stuff that I thought you might be interested in.”
Like I said, I try to respect everyone’s view point. I’ve had conversations and research that has opened my eyes to so many things that I never would have considered. The only thing that I’m really outspoken about is doing the research and deciding for yourself.
I hope that helps.
Comment by queenlucy — June 27, 2010 @ 1:02 pm
queenlucy~makes perfect sense to me. So well put. Excellent strategy. Now, I want someone to say something so I can use it.
Comment by IdahoG-ma — June 27, 2010 @ 1:37 pm