Understanding the psyche of the cool boys
I have one of those cushy, enviable callings that requires a minimal amount of preparation, no meetings, and no midweek activities; just a big bag of candy and an hour on Sunday mornings. I teach the 16-18-year-old Sunday School class. We meet in the high council room in the basement of our stake center, with me sitting in the stake president’s seat at the head of a long conference table and the kids in a cozy circle all around. All things considered, I love my calling. I love the friendly banter among the kids. I love hearing about the things they’ve done over the weekend. I love listening to them read scriptures and being surprised and impressed by the strength of their testimonies. (I also love getting out of Gospel Doctrine.)
But there’s one thing about my class that keeps me lying awake on Saturday nights: the boys, at least some of them. I’m not totally unfamiliar with teenage boys. I’ve worked as a high school teacher, a college instructor, and a college admissions counselor, all fields where I’ve come into contact with a lot of teenage boys. The nerdy boys, the shy boys, and the sullen boys, I have no problem with them. I have personal experience with nerdy, shy, and sullen. It’s the cool boys who throw me for a loop.
It’s always been this way. When I was student teaching in my last semester of college (strangely enough, at the same high school my Sunday School students attend), I got so flustered by the lettermen-jacket wearing cool boys, most of them only three years younger than I was at the time, who knew exactly what they were doing when they asked question after question to derail me from my lessons, that I avoided calling on them at all. I can’t really do that in a Sunday School class with a dozen kids, but if I ask them to write on the board, chances are good that it will soon be filled with diagrams of the offensive strategy of Skyline High School’s football team. If I ask them to read scriptures, chances are good that they’ll be read in Monty Python voices. If I ask them to answer open-ended personal questions, chances are good that they’ll turn their time holding the conch shell into a Fox News-type discussion of politics and the dire state of where the country is headed (one of them happened to see me in the grocery store wearing an Obama Mama t-shirt, and it’s been all over since then). I try to get a word in edgewise, and the girls back me up, but the boys have definitely established dominance in the high council room.
I was flustered by the cool boys when I was in high school. I dated some nerdy boys, and some popular boys, but not the ones with an answer for everything and a swagger as they walked down the hallway. I was never ready with a comeback for the cool boys’ quick wit; I often thought they were making fun of me even when they weren’t. But I’m old enough to be these boys’ mother (if I was very, very young when they were born) and it drives me nuts that this next generation of confident cool kids still reduces me to the tongue-tied honors’ student who hid her nose in a big fat novel whenever I saw a lettermen’s jacket coming my way.
I’m not going to kick them out (although I may withhold candy). They may be domineering, but they’re good kids, and the come to class Sunday after Sunday. Barring meanness, what are some strategies that may help me regain control? Dirty looks aren’t working. Sighing and making fun of them doesn’t help either. Ideas? Please?
Oh heavens, if anyone has the answer to this I’d love to hear it to. Although cool girls are infinitely more difficult than cool boys for me…
Comment by Enna — November 7, 2009 @ 5:20 pm
I was once a paid youth worker at a Presbyterian church and I had the same problem you’re describing with the so-called cool kid’s…
What I did was create a series of lessons that required the “cool” kids to teach and the lead the rest of the class.
Bot only did it give them the perspective of the teacher but it also engaged them in the material more than before almost forcing them to take ownership of the faith formation process for themselves…
After a few lessons and a few weeks they participated positively in class on a regular basis whether or not they were the leaders for the day…good luck
Comment by notamormonyet — November 7, 2009 @ 5:28 pm
#2– that’s a brilliant idea. Thanks!
Keep ‘em coming!
Comment by Shelah — November 7, 2009 @ 5:49 pm
My personal approach was generally to wear lots of black or a cloak or something to scare them into shutting up. I don’t think that would work in Sunday School, though.
Comment by ifrit — November 7, 2009 @ 5:55 pm
In my experience the teachers that have best been able to keep the cool kids in check have been the teachers that share personal anecdotes about things that impressed those same boys: running a marathon, being robbed at work, hilarious adventures with poop, participating in awesome sports games, ways you outsmarted your own kids.
As a student I would sometimes be annoyed with teachers who did that, but looking back on it I see that those stories were carefully sculpted to paint the teller in the most respectable, dominant, or ‘manly’ light possible, and that in general those cocky boys would listen to the teachers that proved their bona-fides that way.
Comment by Starfoxy — November 7, 2009 @ 6:12 pm
So I should start bragging on my marathon times? I can totally do that! I have a good poop/donut story that happened at my house this week as well.
I try to make them want to come back by giving the kids time to talk at the beginning of the lesson (a good 10-15 minutes as the stragglers arrive) so there’s ample opportunity for storytelling.
Comment by Shelah — November 7, 2009 @ 6:19 pm
2 and 5 are both good ideas.
I’m incredibly impressed from afar by you, Shelah, so you’ve got the goods to do this. Seriously, do those kids even know you run marathons? How many RS moms can walk into a youth SS class with that kind of street cred? I think the boys will be impressed.
Comment by Kevin Barney — November 7, 2009 @ 6:27 pm
BTW, for my own struggles with a class like this, see here.
Comment by Kevin Barney — November 7, 2009 @ 6:29 pm
Aw Kevin, I’m blushing. You got some really good responses in the comments. Thanks so much for sharing the link.
Comment by Shelah — November 7, 2009 @ 6:34 pm
i got NOTHIN! but i dare say they’re one lucky bunch of kids to have you teaching them. ♥
Comment by blue — November 7, 2009 @ 6:44 pm
okay, just read the comments and had an idea: challenge them to a foot race.,,on a saturday. non-racing class members come cheer and witness. everyone gets breakfast at your house afterward. it’s a relationship building thing. their behavior strikes me as a basic lack of respect, and something like this would garner a bit of that.
i want to come, too. and i’ll help with breakfast.
Comment by blue — November 7, 2009 @ 6:51 pm
Good idea, Blue. But it would have to be a pretty long foot race. I bet the boys could still smoke me in a sprint, or probably in anything less than a mile or so. But 5 miles or 20 miles? I’d have them begging for mercy.
I do think it’s a lack of respect, but I’m not sure they know me well enough for me to have earned their respect, either.
Comment by Shelah — November 7, 2009 @ 6:57 pm
#11 It’s like that movie with Goldie Hawn where she’s gunna be the new football coach at the run down high school, but the big bad players don’t want her so she challenges them to a race. If they win, she’ll quit but if she wins they have to let her be the coach. After a dramatic scene with tough guys collapsing into the mud to 1980s rock music, she victoriously brags about running the Boston Marathon multiple times. Take that!!
I’ve had the same prob teaching High School. Have you thought about talking to their parents? They might have strategies that work at home. Or talk to the kids themselves. Would they respond to a heart-to-heart?
If you get really desperate I’ve done “boundary breaking” activities at a bunch of different summer camps that always seems to soften the cool kids. It’s basically a group of kids sitting in a circle and a facilitator asks them a bunch of questions which everyone answers in turn (including the teacher). It starts out with easy ones like what’s your favorite book or movie but progresses to heavier ones like. . .what scares you or what do you think it would take to make your school a better place. The point of the exercises is for people to realize how similar we all are and to treat each other like humans no matter where in the social structure you fall. It may be a little intense for SS, but you could do a truncated version, or a few questions each week. Good luck!
Comment by lache — November 7, 2009 @ 7:29 pm
Unfortunately, I had no wisdom to help you establish control of cool boys. I can only offer general advice.
Being a teacher means you deal with all kinds and have to go with the flow because your students will always be somewhat unpredictable. Keep researching ways to keep order and gain respect in the class. Pick your battles (so what if they use a Monty Python voice). I know as a teacher you want to “reach” every student but it can’t really happen like that. Keep looking for ways to not be intimidated in all areas of your life and that will trickle down.
What makes the cool kids the cool kids? They are better at social skills than the rest. They are better at faking confidence, or reading people or reacting in a social setting. It is obvious and easy and they have immense influence….both for good and ill.
Does it help to view them as having a talent, rather than status help them be less intimidating? Some people can sit down and learn math because they have the memory and intuition to pick up math easily….how could they not when it is just so obvious? It is the same with cool kids. How could they not be cool when it is all so natural? Their brains can process hundreds of possible actions and the potential responses and make the best choice without taking time to even think about it.
In my reading about social skills, I have read that the bully isn’t actually more mean than the average kid, just more effective. (An average kid has mean thoughts and doesn’t necessarily like everything but can’t really rally others to do his bidding). A highly socially skilled child will exert more influence both in a positive and a negative way. Look for ways to get the cool kids to be a positive force in the class while not ignoring the less cool kids (as in don’t become one of those teachers who wants to be popular). Strategies like having them lead a discussion or talking to them one on one about the class and how to improve the overally experience usually use this strategy.
Comment by jks — November 7, 2009 @ 7:47 pm
I had this class as a very, very new convert. The class was ALL 16-17 year old boys and while they were not all “cool” there were three annoying, won’t shut up, just screw off the entire time guys. I asked them what it would take for them to shut up and participate. The worst offender challenged me to memorize the articles of faith–in a ridiculously short period of time of two weeks. I gave it a try and while I was not perfect in my recitation, I was allowed three “life lines” and managed to finish up. I never expected the boys to hold up their end of the bargain but they did participate nicely for our agreed on period of time (i think it was two months).
Then it was right back to screwing off. But I was pleasantly suprised they kept their end of the bargain.
Comment by diane — November 7, 2009 @ 9:26 pm
I was an obnoxious teenage girl not long ago trying to derail Sunday School lessons. The teachers who laughed and could banter on occasion usually won my respect and silence. I wanted to hear what someone intelligent and witty had to say. I didn’t care what uptight shy people had to tell me. Probably because I thought I was better than them. Ah, teenagers.
Comment by Alyssa — November 7, 2009 @ 9:29 pm
(Not that you are uptight or shy.)
Comment by Alyssa — November 7, 2009 @ 9:30 pm
I like the idea of getting them to teach.
Honestly, some of it to me is also figuring how they feel the Spirit. Sometimes I wonder if the coolness is a way to avoid feeling things that to them might not feel cool.
So how to make it cool to feel the Spirit?
Comment by m&m — November 7, 2009 @ 10:04 pm
I’m not sure my method would work for you, but I’ll tell you anyway. I use a sharp tongue and sarcasm to whittle them down to size. And, yes, I’ve used in it in numerous Sunday School classes over the years. Once they know it’s foolish to mess with someone older, smarter, and completely unintimidated by them, they start to show respect.
This means, of course, that as long as you’re intimidated by them, as long as you crave their approval as if you were the high school girl hoping to date them, they will have power over you.
No matter what method you choose, you must conquer your fear of them before you can control them.
(This message brought to you by a woman who’s taught junior high school for 21 years.)
Comment by A Paperback Writer — November 7, 2009 @ 10:37 pm
I think that teachers need to provide the opportunity and environment (as much as they are able) for the students to have a spiritual experience. Sunday School — no matter the age — is not about entertainment, but rather about learning by the Spirit. Candy, movies, “talk time” are gimmicks and the students know it.
Comment by ErinAnn — November 7, 2009 @ 11:07 pm
Hmm… I teach freshmen in a good college, so slightly older and probably more mature, but here’s what I would do.
When the scripture is read in Monty Python voice, raise eyebrows a bit and say something like “That scripture appears to have been brought to us by Monty Python.” Everybody has a little laugh. The joke is acknowledged, lesson moves on without hurting any feelings (yours or theirs). Maybe keep the joke going, if it seems appropriate, and ask if Monty Python has any insight on what the scripture was about. But more importantly, ask students to seriously back up and think — how is the lesson going to apply to their life? What if this really comes up? Does it really come up? Make it relevant, and they’ll get into it.
I, personally, hate the forced spiritual bonding discussions. I know the comment was well met, but I cringe at the idea of sharing personal feelings in a circle. We used to do that when I was that age, and I always resented sharing fake feelings with strangers. You can love them without forcing “spiritual” moments. The spirit can be present even with laughter, and without sharing things that are uncomfortable.
Maybe acknowledge, too, that they maybe ready for more out of their lessons. These kids have probably been given the same stuff with all the same questions and all the same answers every Sunday for 16 years. Is there any way to twist it so it isn’t tiring? Monty Python scripture reading sounds like it may be their way to deal with 16 years of repetition. (Maybe I’ll try this in Gospel Doctrine…)
If you’re going to have them teach (which sounds like a good idea), first explain why. Tell them that within a couple of years, they’ll all be teaching lessons just like this, and give them some teaching pointers and maybe even a critique by their peers, if you think it can be done without hurting feelings. If the class can come up with two really good things about each lesson and maybe two suggestions for improvement, you could turn these bored teens into really great teachers down the road. I, personally, would really appreciate that.
Anyway, those are some of my random thoughts, for what they’re worth.
Comment by JessicaS — November 7, 2009 @ 11:08 pm
“Then, when you have found the shrubbery, you must place it here…”
all this Monty Python talk has me reciting that quote over and over and over.
Do 16 year olds know about MP? I figured that stuff way before their time (old) and not their brand of humor.
Comment by mfranti — November 7, 2009 @ 11:26 pm
If you do have them teach, don’t just throw them into the experience. Give them some help….a lesson about how to teach, some phone calls to ask them how their prep is going. Or a specific assignment for the lesson rather than expecting them to teach the entire lesson.
Comment by jks — November 7, 2009 @ 11:27 pm
mfranti, my 12 year old and 10 year old love monty python (we just have to make sure we forward through a certain part). It is so fun to have kids old enough to share humor with.
Comment by jks — November 7, 2009 @ 11:29 pm
I think I was in my 30’s when I discovered MP.
Comment by mfranti — November 7, 2009 @ 11:30 pm
Jessica’s idea about explaining the why of your request that they teach and first give them a few lessons about teaching (See the “Teaching the Gospel” manual). They need to be empowered to succeed if this is going to work.
The most vital piece that I’ve found in this situation is to establish a THOUGHTFUL relationship with each of them outside the classroom. You can do this in the hallways of church, in conversations before and after class, attending their athletic events, etc. and specifically discussing those with them afterwards and any other way you find possible and wise. If they come to understand that you value them and their opinions as individuals, they are going to be more able to discuss, one-on-one with you what’s going on in class and what’s needed to change.
Boys act this way because they have found that it gets them attention and laughs and helps them feel more okay about themselves. As you give them attention for things besides their shenanigans, enjoy them and find out the really okay parts of their lives and reflect those back to them, they will see you as trustworthy and an ally in something you can both be working towards in your classroom.
Comment by mb — November 7, 2009 @ 11:33 pm
when I was a kid we had 3 boys in SS that were like this. needless to say we went through teachers like toilet paper. Do you know what it took to get them to calm down about it? We finally got a teacher that called their bluff. He came in, told us he was there to stay, and promptly told the class that if they were asses he would kick them out of class. If they didn’t want to be there, he didn’t want them there. And of course their parents would be informed. On the plus side, he also made a deal. If the who class was reasonable they would earn a reward, BBQ at his house with steaks etc and no church talk. It works like a charm. I think that using food with the teens was a good tool too
Comment by Aprillium — November 8, 2009 @ 2:00 am
all good ideas so far.
Comment by Aprillium — November 8, 2009 @ 2:03 am
If they have letter jackets, maybe go to a few of their games? A genuine interest in their lives…not that you don’t already show that in class, etc….or would that be too weird?
Do a service project together? (or would that be hijacking YM?)
Bribe them to volunteer them to help teach Primary on Mother’s day?
What about inviting RMs or preparing missionaries to come give a lesson or participate…maybe they could talk their language and cut through the layers a little.
I think, too, that it doesn’t matter how many times they have heard the same ol’ stuff — the Spirit can deepen the repetition any time.
I love real discussion. Sometimes you can talk about one issue, even with kids, for a while…still, the challenge is to break through that barrier, huh?
Comment by m&m — November 8, 2009 @ 3:16 am
My mother taught seminary for a number of years, and her favorite approach to dealing with problems like this was similar to what Paperback Writer mentioned above: sarcasm and wit. This obviously doesn’t work for everyone, but if you’re at all sassy like my mom can be, this approach can work very well.
My mom also used contests with somewhat unorthodox prizes, like rides in my dad’s Porsche, to keep kids engaged in class material.
Good luck!
Comment by steve-o — November 8, 2009 @ 4:20 am
Ha! I was so terrified when I was called in Young Women the first time. Standing at the front of the room was like flashbacks to every horrible memory from high school. I had grown into my own skin and become way more comfortable with who I am. But I still felt like they would all just see right through me and somehow know what a dork I was. Turns out my fears were pretty much overblown. But man, I know how you feel. Cool boys, that just adds a whole other layer. Don’t have any wisdom.
Comment by sister blah 2 — November 8, 2009 @ 4:27 am
There just boys. Treat them nice and they’ll treat you nice. To categorize these young men as cool or nerdy is your prejudice of them. With your prejudice you’ve robbed yourself and them of an open trusting relationship.
Comment by Todd — November 8, 2009 @ 5:33 am
Well, you have my empathy- I spent years tutoring boys in the CHINS program (one step away from jail)- ages 13-17. At that age cool=strong, and boys grow up with that expectation hovering over their heads…they must be strong at all costs, and it costs them dearly sometimes. If you can remember that the cool obnoxiousness is their interpretation of what strong looks like, you may be able to tap into the compassion they require but are ill-equipped to ask for. The more obnoxious the boy is, in my experience, the more wounded and tender his poor heart is. Really. I’m not just waxing poetic. I’m not suggesting that you start weeping over a boy who is clowning around or working hard to establish his cool cred. What I’m saying, is that these are defense mechanisms and if you recognise them as such, you may not be as intimidated and you will eventually connect on a deeper level with teen boys as you work to know them as individuals and they begin to trust you as a person who can really know them. It is SO worth it. There is no need to be afraid…especially when you know and understand that it is these boys who are afraid and don’t know how to reach out or into themselves within this barbaric social construct in which they live. They are only trying to live up to it in the only way they know. Just love them.
Comment by Kimberly — November 8, 2009 @ 9:05 am
Oh yeah…the question. Almost universally, boys have a very difficult time sitting still and being quiet. Try tailoring the lessons to include demonstrations or some kind of movement that the boys can do. Be ready to laugh, be ready to be entertained. They are usually natural hams and will enjoy the positive attention more than the negative reactions. They will remember the lessons better. In nice weather, take them outside when you can incorporate it into the lesson. Boys in small spaces, trying to sit still (at any age) is a recipe for intense boredom and you can expect them to act up. Try assigning object lessons and you’ll be amazed at how creative they are.
Comment by Kimberly — November 8, 2009 @ 9:17 am
I haven’t read all the comments yet, so this may be redundant.
I cannot tell from the OP, but are you still giving them candy even if they act up? If so, STOP immediately. Make it into a specific reward system. One piece for showing up. One piece for each answer/reading done with the appropriate tone/spirit.
Do not give them anymore than they have earned. I made bite sized cookies for the teenage class I was subbing. It worked fairly well.
When the comments/board answers are so far out there, ask them to explain exactly how that ties in with the gospel lesson for that day, with scripture references. You might be amazed at how much gospel learning is actually taking place. If they cannot relate it to today’s lesson in less than 15 seconds, they’re done.
Divide the lesson into periods like a sports game, with a few minute half time for a break. If they can’t get back on task, no breaks in future lessons and they go into overtime. Speaking of overtime, when I taught primary music, I actually kept the senior primary after church for ten minutes a couple times because they had wasted that much of my teaching time. Their parents were none too happy, but the kids got the message.
Best of luck. I’d rather have teenage boys than the cub scouts I currently have.
Comment by JJ — November 8, 2009 @ 11:01 am
If you remember that they’re using their popularity/coolness (and the behaviors that result) as a cover for their adolescent feelings of inadequacy and low self esteem, then you’ll be able to deal with them in a productive way.
I’ve found that their poor behavior is really their way of screaming (albeit inappropriately) for positive attention and a demand for respect.
My approach as been to do the following, when dealing with adolescent boys, especially those who are too cool.
1. Don’t nag, gripe, chew them out, etc. But be clear about the rules and expectations. In other words make it clear of what you expect while treating them with respect, not as children.
2. Find ways to to have positive interactions with them that will allow them to know that you trust them, etc. There have been several examples of this in the comments above.
3. I find things, however small, to complement them on and go out of my way to talk to them in the hallway, after class, or some other non-class situation to thank them. Similarly, I find it very useful to complement them to their parents, because 9/10 times their parents will go to the boy and relay the compliment.
While I haven’t been 100% successful, I’ve found these things to really help. I think the bottom line is that these adolescent boys (cool or not) don’t necessarily want to be entertained. They actually want to be challenged and given the opportunity to shine. I
Just my $0.02.
Comment by scott — November 8, 2009 @ 12:09 pm
Such good ideas! I think, Shelah, your biggest problem is that you are intimidated by them and think that when they are acting all “cool” they are deliberately baiting you. They might be, but chances are they are just showing off for each other. I’m not sure, based on your story, that the sarcasm thing will really work for you in this situation because it might feel mean and retaliatory instead of a classroom management technique. So, here are my suggestions.
1. When they make a joke or try to be funny, acknowledge it without letting it control the lesson. “Thank you, Monty Python. What does this scripture say about the role of Jesus Christ?” Then a thoughtful answer to your question gets the m&m, for example. (By the way, I don’t think food is necessary to feel the spirit, but these kids might need some incentive to behave.) This strategy lets them “win” because hey, everyone laughed! and therefore they can move on from the joke.
2. If they are deliberately destructive to the lesson, such as writing Skyline’s football plays on the board (OOOOH! What if there’s an Olympus spy at church that day? They should be careful!) that’s when you have to ignore it. Erase the board calmly and without commenting and ask for another volunteer.
3. Do not get flustered. They’re like sharks–they can smell blood.
4. Like the kids. They can sense this.
5. If all else fails and it’s really a problem, have a little discussion at the beginning of class one Sunday, and level with them. Teens usually respond when they are treated like adults, no matter how little they may deserve it. Tell them you understand they are trying to lighten the mood and show off, blah blah blah, but it is distracting and keeps the spirit away as well as hurting your feelings (twist that knife! Guilt is good!) because you really want to have a good lesson. Ask them if they can try to be more reverent and respectful. Make sure the treats are really good that week, and give them out after the lesson. Oh, and “show forth an increase of love” after their reprimand.
Comment by Molly — November 8, 2009 @ 1:50 pm
One more thought. The kids are attending your class. This in itself speaks volumes. There are cars and Burger Kings that are awfully tempting out there. The fact that these kids are showing up to your class is showing respect and showing that they have a certain amount of interest in following the rules. I love that you let them hang out a little in class. As a teenager, I was at church to be spiritually fed but also to connect with others who shared my faith…..as well as be social and interact with friends or boys I liked. If you take that away, they’d often rather cut SS to hang out with their church friends.
It sounds like you are doing a lot to make it worth it to come to class and not a waste of their time (spiritually, socially, or anything).
From what I remember as a teen, we LOVED personal stories about dating, mission and college or other life stories about being a young adult. If you can ever tie those into a lesson do it.
Comment by jks — November 8, 2009 @ 6:06 pm
As an old scouter and YM leader, my axiom is “Treat them like adults but don’t expect them to act like adults”. Do you have a popular scouter in your ward? I would be happy to share some of my Canadian scouter training information with you but perhaps such a local scouter has some ideas to share. Involve the boys and love them. Even if they show off, let it go. They need to know you see beyond their antics. That you see their worth to Heavenly Father.
Learn to turn their play into the lesson. Perhaps they are responding to you in their own language. Have fun with them. Use the lesson manual as a plan but liven it up. Prim and proper are good things but sometimes they are too much.
I started teaching our small ward’s 12-18 class three weeks ago. Today. we had lesson 40. I used both the manual and the Aberdeen Scotland stake article (New Era Sept 2009). Our temple is 70 miles away. Our youth attend for baptisms when a 5th Tuesday evening occurs - about 3 -4 times per year. Also, some of them attend for family baptisms.
Better to be in your class than in the hallway ward.
Comment by Glenn Smith — November 8, 2009 @ 7:14 pm
#32 Todd,
“There just boys. Treat them nice and they’ll treat you nice”
Have you ever even met any teenagers? I remember two teachers in particular that tried this method of teaching, and they were eaten alive by the students. Kids don’t always live by the golden rule.
I think it’s important to let your kids be themselves, let them discuss and make jokes, but never let them forget that you are in charge.
Comment by Ian Cook — November 8, 2009 @ 8:15 pm
I like the idea of having them teach a bit here and there — 5 minute portions of a lesson. You could try a little profanity now and then when you get ticked — it conveys authority. How about gadgets: laser pointer, Powerpoint or fancy graphics, a chainsaw. Guys love gadgets.
Comment by Dave — November 8, 2009 @ 8:20 pm
Dave,
Profanity? I guess if you want to see how quickly you can get released from your calling. There will be one of the kids that will tell their parent, who will promptly get offended who will then tell the Bishop. Quick as that.
Gadgets are a good idea though. Just occasionally will keep them interested, using them too much will make them old hat.
Comment by Ian Cook — November 8, 2009 @ 8:39 pm
I was scared to death to teach the 16-18 year old class.
One thing is that YOU can be the one to say what COOL is! Reinforce the cool, sincere, spiritual answers that anyone gives and explain why THAT is the real cool. Because being ’spiritually minded’ really is. Catch them being kind, or generous, or thoughtful, and explain why that IS COOL! They don’t really get socially reinforced for TRUE COOLNESS in lots of environments. Make it a safe place for spiritual to be cool, and explain that you also realize that its not the easiest thing to do. Recognize their challenges of the week. Be an anchor for them.
The most difficult time I had was with 2 “so called” cool girls who sucked the spirit right out of the room and made every truly cool kid feel ridiculous for desiring spiritual growth. They finally quit coming and sadly, we were all relieved. But it was sad. It was a case of you could see others starting to shrivel up. We all knew that they should not have that power but …they did.
We were trying to minister to their needs and had been for years. They had really not been responsive.
Also…sarcasm and sharp wit might reach some, but it also can keep the spirit at bay. Be true to yourself and improve your teaching and preparation. BE EXCITED and interested in the material you present. The last year I taught was Old Testament and there was so much to learn myself. We had a good time! ( I am not the kind to make cookies for class, but I did try to make it fun and interesting. I brought visuals. We DID stuff. Get them thinking. They were all invited to be involved every week. This is a good chance for them to learn lots more about the simple stories of childhood…I called them the BACK STORIES…most of which they had never heard.)
I didn’t act like I knew everything…I honestly told them how much I had learned in preparing for their class, and how thankful I was I could focus on the scriptures myself by teaching them.
And I agree, chat with them in the halls, tell their parents the good you see in them, bring up all the good you can!
Comment by Melissa P. — November 8, 2009 @ 8:45 pm
You have a lot of good suggestions here - as a mother of teens and a former teacher of teen sunday school classes, I would offer a couple of other thoughts:
1. Popular boys (and girls) still have a lot of the same insecurities the less popular have, they are just better at hiding them. They are astute studies of people and situations. I’m actually convinced some of the most popular kids sometimes have MORE insecurity than the sullen or the nerdy. Sullen or nerdy kids have often embraced their quirks and at least acknowledged their short-comings. Popular boys are loathe to do that. But if you understand that when you are dealing with them, it gives you a slightly different view of their behavior at times and a least a little more patience I think.
2. Know them and love them. I was recently asked to substitute for a class that was pretty awful. They had gone through so many teachers it was ridiculous. The SS president very reluctantly asked me to teach for a couple of weeks while they found a new teacher. I have a stake calling so I knew I was not getting the bait and switch, plus a had a child in that class (who I am sure was probably part of the problem!) and so I took on the challenge. They did not give me even the slightest difficulty. I realized it was due in great part to the fact that I personally knew every single one of those kids. I knew their likes and dislikes, I knew what they were involved with at school - I understood the dynamics and tensions between them in the classroom. But most of all I genuinely liked all of them. Some of them are annoying to be sure, but I can still look at even the annoying ones and see the potential of a great person in the making there. If you can find a way to love those kids - not the fake “I love all you guys” kind of love - but just a feeling inside your own heart, I think it will make a big difference. Kids sense that kind of thing very quickly and they all really just want to be loved.
Comment by bandanamom — November 9, 2009 @ 8:30 am
bandanamom- yes. You hit it on the head. That’s exactly what I was trying to say, but you said it much better.
Comment by Kimberly — November 9, 2009 @ 9:04 am
I think there’s a real possibility that the boys are trying to impress *you* as well, Shelah. Cocky and obnoxious may be their version of charming. I imagine you are more impressive to them than you assume.
And Kimberly?! Yay. It totally makes my morning to see you on here.
Comment by crazywomancreek — November 9, 2009 @ 9:40 am
At the beginning of the lesson, state that your objective is to invite in the spirit and have spiritual discussions. Anyone not willing to maintain that atmosphere is welcome to go sit with their parents in Gospel Doctrine class.
Have one of the SS presidency sit in at the beginning of your class and escort anyone to GD who is disrupting the class.
Comment by JM — November 9, 2009 @ 9:57 am
A lot of good stuff here. As someone who was a smart ass in HS and also worked a lot of years with incarcerated teenage boys I have a few others. A fair amount of humor goes a long way with teens, but if you cannot raise your toleration level (it’s maxed out), then here are some more ways to help curb it.
Good natured embarrassment goes a long way. I usually would say out loud that their attempt at humor is really a cry for help. Specifically they need a hug. A lot of guys will go out of their way not to cry for help again after being hugged in front of the class by the teacher.
Also detailing out exactly what the student just did with some pseudo-psychological motivations can really limit the need to offer up any more behaviors for further analysis.
You can also highlight what they are doing and ask for it before they do it, Usually they like to be funny spontaneously, not the scheduled entertainment.
Sometimes the kid is just pushing limits, just seeking how far his cage expands before he can relax. If that is the case you need to bring the big stick once or twice. Once they learn what they can get away with some kids will stick to that material only. By avoiding that you are only making the child worse over time.
A little intimidation can help as well. I find that getting into their personal space and speaking in a calm quiet voice exactly what is going to happen if they continue on this path. Usually it is something unpleasant. In your case I would do that in the hall before or after class. Be aware though, you really have to sell this or they will see right through you.
Things you should never do – lie or make promises/threats that you do not carry out immediately. Once they see you will not follow through you are toast. Do not make special exemptions ever. Consistency of your behavior is extremely important. Confront all issues immediately, and when you get better at spotting it, all pre-issues as well.
Always be excited for the material. It will rub off eventually. I can trace my college degrees back to exceptional teachers that made their subjects seem like the greatest thing ever.
Finally, the mistake I see a lot of adults make (I am speaking generally as I don’t know you at all to be speaking specifically) is they want to be liked by the kids as their priority. You are there to be responsible, not popular. Kids have enough friends among their peers, they don’t need you to fill that role. A teacher can still be well liked at the end of the day, but sometimes you will need to make decisions that will not be well loved by the class as a whole. To be occasionally disliked seems to be really hard for a lot of adults.
As always, we are all different and what works for one may not work for another. I spent a few years also working with mentally ill adults (in lock up units) so I have learned a lot of techniques to get violent people to do what I want with a minimum physical confrontation. While it is way beyond what your kids are probably doing, the techniques can still work pretty well with time. Of course being 6′4″ and 240 doesn’t hurt either
Remember once you change your behavior you will get a stronger negative response from the kids at first. Just ride it out. It is like a door in your house that has never been locked. If you try it one day and find it locked are you just going to accept that and walk away? Like most people you are really going to crank that handle pretty severly for a while until you accept it is really locked. Kids are the same way.
Comment by TStevens — November 9, 2009 @ 10:15 am
TStevens is brilliant. I agree with everything, especially the good natured teasing and the “make it ok to be disliked” tips. I have to encounter this every semester, as I tend to be kind of goofy in class which a few students choose to interpret as weak. They learn eventually. Although, not being able to give grades in Sunday School takes away the threatening grade option.
Comment by Eris — November 9, 2009 @ 11:11 am
Great stuff everybody.
The only thing I have to offer is a teacher I had who claimed to love teaching teenage boys. I said “How did you do it?” She said “I walk in there the first day and tell them, I’m here to teach. I don’t babysit.”
Re the getting in their space to get obnoxious Cool Boys’ attention- works great with Cub Scouts. I also did this to an elder once. The only thing it seemed to make him think was 1) it was a sexual advance (Yeah! You wish, buddy) and 2) it got back to the mission president that I picked the 200-lb dude up and smacked him against the wall. With one arm. Amazing! So it doesn’t work in every circumstance, at least not when the young man in question has a very active fantasy life. ; )
Comment by mellifera — November 9, 2009 @ 12:02 pm
-Are you prepared?
-Is the type of classroom appropriate for teaching?
-Do you leverage technology, such as a laptop to search subjects and show videos?
-Do you make the subject matters relevant to the students’ lives?
-Are you engaging?
Comment by ............ — November 9, 2009 @ 4:48 pm
One thing I wouldn’t do is give the cool boys more attention in front of the class. I was one of the studious, serious students in most classes, and it killed me to see so many teachers try to “suck up” to the cool boys, thinking that if they were “buddies”, they would get respected. This was even more noticeable in my seminary classes, where often, the teachers themselves would try to become the cool boys. Giving them extra attention, or catering the lesson to meet just their needs, is really unfair for the majority of students who are looking for something else.
I agree with TStevens that you have to get past trying to be best friends with them. When I was in YW, I really wanted to be friends with the girls. But I had to first set up the boundaries of our relationship. I was their counselor, not their peer. No friendship was going to be possible without first establishing that ever so important RESPECT.
My YW got a little bit out of control for a while, sometimes even getting into physical fights during class. We instituted a policy of “respect first, fun later” that was pretty successful.
First, we would get to the classroom before any of the kids and stack all the chairs. Then after the girls came in. I would ask them to, one-by-one, grab their chair and sit where I asked them to. Then, before any of the opening exercises, I stood up front and wrote and discussed the three newly instituted rules of Young Women:
1) Respect your leaders
2) Respect each other
3) Respect yourselves
The message got through to them. They weren’t exactly the “cool boys”, but establishing respect in a relationship is a always a great way to curb negative behavior.
Comment by Natalie K. — November 9, 2009 @ 6:00 pm
I taught this same class for years and loved it. I started each class by asking everyone what was new. Ar first, IU was the only one with news- a trip I was taking, a promotion at work, etc. But then they started- announcing they had a job, a driver’s license or whatever else they felt good about.
I employed a bit of a trick: One Sunday a month, one of the youth taught the class. I introduced the idea by telling them that most of the were prepping for missions, and both the YM and YW, especially if they were going to college wards, would be called to teach- in a year or so- so no better time than the present to practice lesson prep (truth be told, it is harder to teach peers than strangers- usually, so this would have been very difficult for them). I always gave them the lesson 2 weeks in advance (I asked for volunteers, and they readily rook turns- I only had to assign it the first time- to a popular boy, and let his mother know of the assignment). I think the kids enjoyed taking turns teaching each other, and I think it made them better students because of the experience. I think they learned more and listened to each other better. I was impressed with how sensitive they were with one boy who had reading skills far behind the rest of the class. I was really impressed with the near-lunch spread that one of the girls brought for her class. I was floored when one of the popular boys bore his testimony- though in the same drone voice he had read his entire lesson. He still did it. I was amazed. And I felt the spirit.
I didn’t pull out the bells and whistles with doing a show lessons for them, but I called in pop culture as well- if there was a drunk driving accident with teenagers in the news, I asked them what they thought and tried to roll it into the lesson- word of wisdom, obedience, holy ghost were the answers the kids came up with. I also talked about a gang rape of a young woman that had been in the news and asked them what they thought about it. The same for a drug dealer caught in Asia and was facing a death sentence- what did they think was fair for the expat drug mule?
In the end, I didn’t see myself as the teacher, I saw myself as the moderator. Sure, I prepped a lesson- but I brought in popular songs (what is the message in Robbie William’s song- can we apply it to this lesson- here is a copy of the words- lets discuss) The kids know the spirit. They have had the doctrine and church rules drilled into them so much they are bored with it. I asked them what they thought and I tried applying it in ways that I didn’t think other Sunday school teachers or even their parents might have thought to. On the fast Sunday before Christmas, I scrapped the lesson and had them hand make cards for the missionaries serving- reminding them that if they chose to serve missions, they would appreciate this kind of thing. I think they liked the craft aspect and had fun making decorations for their former youth leaders who were in the mission field- and we sat and talk about church things so much that I still felt the spirit at the end of the class time, even without a lesson.
Was I a good teacher? I don’t know. But I think they learned more about themselves and each other. I know I learned a million times more than I can ever express. So I was likely the student, and they were the teachers. The cool kids can teach you- if you will let them
Comment by spunky — November 9, 2009 @ 6:19 pm
Pretty much what I would say is what a lot of other commenters have said, but here’s my systematic way of thinking about it:
1. Get them invested in the class. This can be done in a variety of ways. Do activities that take their intelligence seriously, that challenge them, that engage their lives and the things they care about. Figure out where they are in terms of their relationship to the material. Do they care about the material you’re teaching and how it applies to them? Ask them point blank about their relationship to the church and what they get from going, and make it clear that you want honest answers. Figure out how to make class a place where they can have their needs met (rather than a place where another adult tells them something they “should” know or do). For example, if they are students who respond to intellectual challenges (and need church to be intellectually stimulating), bring in supplemental materials that are “advanced” for them. Generally, teenagers respond to adults who take them and their ideas seriously. If you can get them invested in your class, curbing disruptive behavior is easier.
2. As other commenters said, a lot of the joking comes from wanting attention from you or to establish their “coolness” with their friends. Acknowledge the humor that is acceptable to you (i.e. be part of their joke so that it’s no longer disruptive), and set limits if the humor *is* being disruptive. As a school teacher, this is probably easier for me than for you (church is different than school), but I find the following tactics helpful. 1) Be firm and not flustered–for example, when two students are chatting in my class when they shouldn’t, I’ll stop mid-sentence, say “Dave and Richard that’s enough; it’s time to listen,” and then pick right up where I left off. Getting over your instinctive reaction to get flustered will probably be the most difficult thing, but speaking as someone who’s conquered this tendency, it can be done. 2) If the disruptive behavior is one or two individuals, I’ll have an individual conference outside of class where I’m very firm about the behavior that is unacceptable. I’ll also outline consequences for engaging in this behavior in the future. They need limits and consequences. If you are concerned about parental reactions (or want consequences to involve parents), check with the parents first, but otherwise, figure out what you think will work and follow through consistently. 3) If the disruptive behavior is something the whole (or much of) the class is engaging in, I will establish limits/consequences for the whole class. For example, if many of my students are having difficulties refraining from talking to their neighbors, when they come in, I will tell them for the next week they will have assigned seats.
3. Once I’ve set firm limits or if I’ve had a conference with a student about unacceptable behavior, I follow up by making sure to engage the affected students in class, reinforce behavior that is positive, etc. I always give students a chance to redeem themselves. They’re most likely to follow this path, if (like I mentioned in #1) they are invested in the class.
Comment by Seraphine — November 9, 2009 @ 6:40 pm
Sorry for the length!
Comment by Seraphine — November 9, 2009 @ 6:40 pm
I taught this class before. I now teach the 13 yr olds, which is easier but not by a lot. When I had the 17 yr olds, I found that there was usually a leader that everyone else followed, and he would always establish the mood of the class (it’s usually a boy). You have to get that kid on your side.
I usually scheduled a party early in the year and got to know the kids outside of church. That helps. They’re less likely to walk all over you if they know you and have been to your house or been skiing with you. After that, I would always pull the leader aside outside of class or call him previous to church or during the week and ask him to help with the lesson in some way.
Another strategy is to get the spirit there early in the lesson by reading a scripture (if you can’t get them to read it seriously, then read it yourself) or sing a hymn to start the lesson. Make sure you start every lesson with prayer. Another thing I have done is start the lesson by asking them to say one nice thing about the person sitting to their left. Sometimes, that really brings a good feeling and gets the right mood.
Good luck.
Comment by MCQ — November 10, 2009 @ 12:05 am
Ok I admit it — I was a cool boy. You win by being as cool than they are.
The best way to do that you don’t get too worked up by the Monty Python voice while reading scriptures. Play along with the diagrams on the chalkboard. If it is funny just laugh. Life is too short and Sunday School is too long to withhold laughing at a decent gag. Sounds like they are not mean so I say just roll with it. Stay cool, be mellow and everyone will like Sunday School.
(You know how you don’t dig Gospel Doctrine? How cool/funny is the teacher in there? Not all that cool is my guess.)
Comment by Geoff J — November 10, 2009 @ 12:53 am
Be interesting. Period.
These guys sound bored to me.
Comment by Dmo — November 10, 2009 @ 10:01 pm
In my experience there is usually a ring leader in the group, one the other boys look to for cues. If you can bring him on board as comment # 2 suggested by including him in the lesson plan, making the other kids accountable to him by making him responsible for the lesson, the others will fall in line like little dominoes. I have had to engage this technique in a college setting as well, it has always been effective.Remember, do not take it personally and try to laugh with them when appropriate.I sometimes go around the room and have them read aloud in a funny voice, the kids love it, and it helps them to remember the material believe it or not!
Comment by Travelin' Pants — November 12, 2009 @ 4:22 pm
I had this age group earlier this year. After I told them that the WofW’s mention of “barley…for mild drinks” was a recommendation to drink beer, they got VERY interested in Church history
That’s a kind of silly example, but more generally, as they asked tough questions and sensed that there was no bs in my answers and that I wasn’t scared of the questions, they started to trust and respect me (at least sometimes :))
Comment by Kristine — November 12, 2009 @ 8:43 pm
I only read to comment 20 or so and there were a number of great suggestions shared. Sorry if someone else stated this in 20-60, and I know I am coming onto the scene late and you have already had a class with thme today since, but here is what I do with the cool kids that just want to jack off.
It might be a dangerous approach because the goal is to keep these kids at church v running them off. But I usually make those kids feel retarded by pounding them with questions about the topic we are on. Expecially is they are acting like they are know it alls or that this topic is not important.
Go Socratic, and if you do it well, the whole class will benefit from it because sometimes teaching socratic is the best way of learning.
But to be clear, I do not mean to make the offending student offended, but to put him back in his place when he steps out of line.
Its an art, and I do not always create a masterpiece, but sometimes, it could garner some interest at a gallery if i were to hang it.
Good luck.
Comment by Sam Sneed — November 15, 2009 @ 11:50 pm