And pray for them which despitefully use you
By: Anonymous Bloggernacle perma
We’re supposed to love others, selflessly, just like we would love Jesus. And that’s fine in theory, and I think I can want to do that.
But Jesus isn’t mentally ill.
Jesus doesn’t lash out at me because I’m a convenient target.
Jesus doesn’t use his intelligence, and his knowledge about me, to try
to break me down.
Jesus isn’t passive aggressive.
Jesus doesn’t hit me at my weak points and knock me off balance.
Jesus doesn’t hate himself and everyone around him.
Jesus doesn’t leave me feeling drained, like I’m living in a My Chemical Romance song.
Jesus isn’t a bottomless well of resentment and hostility and rage.
Jesus doesn’t fill me with despair, when I wonder if things will never change.
Jesus doesn’t hurt me, again and again and again and again and again
and again.
Jesus isn’t clinically depressed.
I don’t know why not. If I were Jesus, I sure as hell would be.
There are plenty of jerks and but nuggets in the world, but you are the one who determines your feelings. If you are in toxic relationships, it may be time to let those fall to the side. Remember that Jesus didn’t die on the cross to save you from your own sins… he also died on the cross to save you from the sins of others.
Comment by StillConfused — December 8, 2009 @ 10:34 pm
Guest,
I am sorry for your pain. Love does not equal sacrificing our very selves for the toxic affect of a truly ill person.
The honestly LIFE-SAVING event of my life was when my father left my toxic, abusive, tormenting mother. It saved my Dad, my brother and myself from the devastating consequences of my mother. It literally turned my world around.
And guess what? I forgive my mom, I love my mom and I wish her well. But my security, my well being, my very life was saved by being away from her.
Please, be easy on yourself.
Comment by Lawyer Lady — December 8, 2009 @ 11:01 pm
What are you doing in my marriage?
Comment by anon — December 8, 2009 @ 11:02 pm
I really like “Jesus isn’t passive agressive,” because I feel like it is such an issue in the Church. I worked in a law firm that was mixed as far as members and non-members and the non-members called Mormon style “stabbing you in the back with a smile on their face and a platitude about how it is for your own good.”
Whatever relationship is causing you to feel like this should be reanalyzed-I hope that it isn’t your child! I don’t think that Jesus expects anyone to put up with abuse
Comment by Jill — December 8, 2009 @ 11:10 pm
This is a threadjack, but is something I thought of when I read this post (particularly about depression and mental illness). Our RS lesson on Sunday was called “The Prince and the Pauper”. Our RS Pres recapped the story and talked about how the real king was a much better, more compassionate king after he had the experience of being a pauper. She then compared the king to Jesus - who descended below all things to gain the compassion to truly be our Savior. It caused me to reflect a bit on the recent health challenges I’ve had that have made me feel depressed and not like myself the past couple of years. I hope that they make me more compassionate - that I can use these experiences to truly love others the way Jesus would love them. Because I know that Jesus does love them.
This is not to say that allowing yourself to be abused is OK. I am just thinking of all the people who lose friends and family as they start to drift into depression and mental illness. I know because I’ve experienced a bit of it. One of my closest friends avoided me during the worst time and is now back now that I am doing better. That hurts a bit. I hope I won’t do that to someone else.
Comment by Stephanie — December 8, 2009 @ 11:18 pm
Yeah, Steph, being depressed is hard. True compassion is needed there - I agree.
Abuse, as you stated, is different.
A depressed individual may be abusive, but that does not excuse the abuse or alleviate the consequences of that abuse.
But a a loved one with non-abusive depression should be protected and loved. And a great deal of patience and committment should be present.
Comment by Lawyer Lady — December 8, 2009 @ 11:29 pm
I spent years feeling terribly guilty about my failed relationship with my biological father. It took Numi and a professional counselor to help me realize that I have no obligation to keep a toxic person whom I actually fear in my life. Then it took my dad to help me find some peace by seeing past the pain the man had caused me to feel compassion for him and the tragic life he leads.
I don’t know who the person is in your life, but I hope you can find peace and comfort. Jesus doesn’t expect you to put yourself in physical or emotional danger. Show compassion by being forgiving from a distance.
Comment by Eris — December 8, 2009 @ 11:45 pm
Your last line made me cry. I feel your pain and am grateful for women like you sharing your real sorrows. It seems that you’re more a Substance Gal; having what really matters instead of having Form; just what looks good on the surface and I commend you for it!
Comment by Angela Baillio — December 8, 2009 @ 11:52 pm
someone somewhere on one of these posts related an experience they had while at byu. their parents, or a close family member, were very very abusive. but felt like they still had to stay with them (was this you reese?) or stay in a relationship with them because they are supposed to love them. this person was speaking to a professor and he went to the scriptures and related the story of nephi leaving his brothers because they wanted to kill him and the rest of his family. i believe that our emotional selves are just as important as our physical selves. if nephi did it, you can too. as have many of us here.
it doesn’t matter if it’s a friend or family member, get the hell away from them. and then get some counseling.
Comment by Terina — December 9, 2009 @ 12:01 am
OMG!!! Who are the people you have in your life?
Comment by Withheld — December 9, 2009 @ 12:02 am
Reading this thread was something I have wondered about somuch especially recently. I have made decisions the last few months as to how much, if any contact I will have with my mother. My mom has been, on and off for my entire 23 year old life, clinically depressed and suffers from bi-polar as well as anxiety and potentially some other undiagnosed mental illness. I have always thought that my role in the gospel and in this life was to contine to forgive and provide love and support to the person who was supposed to be doing that for me, and being a role model of how to live my life. I have suffered immense amounts of emotional abuse that have taken years of therapy to overcome not to mention several physically abusive incidents that were always without any consequences for my mom. I have been told by my older sister and my father that I should just continue to understand and be willing to have this dysfunctional, abusive and so emotionally draining relationship with her because she has an “illness”! I watched as those around my mother- which are few because she can not maintain relationships- enable her abusive behavior by always accepting and “turning the other cheek”. Until two months ago when another incident occured with my youngest sister I was choosing to accept “I’m sorry” for the millionth time. After the incident and meeting with her Junior high school counselor he likened my mother to an alcoholic or drug addict, who has had their behavior enabled and thereby never needed to grow, change, get more help,OR discontinue treating her entire family in that manner. My husband and I told my mom and dad that if she would not commit to getting help for herself specifically relating to managing her anger and stress that we would not longer maintain a relationship with her. At first my dad was completely agreed and invigorated to have more adult support to ask her to do that but as two weeks turned into six and I have yet to hear anything from my mom or dad, I realized that they expect me to do as I have always done before and come back asking for forgiveness on my part and comply with the dysfunctional cycle that still holds my family. A cycle of shame and hiding of the truth. I wonder if I am doing the right thing by holding my ground this time and not “turning the other cheek” but if I am being un-christlike- so be it, I fear my heart can not take one more moment of the heart wrenching negativity that rips me from any chance of a stable life when I am involved in a relationship with her. How do I forgive? How do I forget? This is my mother, my family, how can I continue to accept that she is allowed to hurt me so deeply? I don’t believe anymore that is any church member duty or stance to continue to ENABLE anyone in such hurtful and abusive behavior and I take pity on all children who are in that situation without a father or other family members to step in and be brave enough to take a stand! I understand that those who have mental illness need love support and pity as much as the next person but that does not entitle them to a life without responsibility for those they hurt in their depressed state.
Comment by Sara — December 9, 2009 @ 12:09 am
No doubt, loving selflessly like Jesus, not just those we like or even those about whom we feel indifferent, but those who bug us, abuse us, hate us–that will be the most difficult thing we will ever do in this life. Most of us, I suspect, will never reach that pinnacle. It will take the guidance of the Savior, and our willingness to trust him completely, to do so.
But even when we do approach that sort of perfect charity, it doesn’t mean we must subject ourselves to abuse, to put ourselves in situations harmful to our bodies or souls. I do believe we can love perfectly, truly forgive, without having to allow ourselves to be victims. I don’t know if that is your situation, Guest, but if it is, seek to pray for, love, and forgive whomever this person is, but be careful not to allow them to crush you.
(and The Black Parade is a great emo song)
Comment by Derek — December 9, 2009 @ 12:32 am
Sara, I just finished reading a book that convinced me that stressful relationships with family members (particularly mothers) can cause serious health problems (not just emotional, but physical as well). You need to protect yourself and your family. Stay strong.
(Thanks FMH perma)
Comment by Stephanie — December 9, 2009 @ 12:44 am
I just hope you don’t live with this person.
I am related by marriage to one of these. I am unable to completely divorce myself from the situation due to many factors. For the first five years, I thought it was all about me not being Christ-like. I’m mostly over that now.
Hang in there. Unfortunately, there are many of us out here who, to some degree, can feel your pain.
Comment by Lupita — December 9, 2009 @ 12:47 am
As one dealing with depression, sleep apnea, mild autism, and joblessness, I can relate.
I’m still hearing too much of the “If I’m too mean to you, then the Lord can send me to Hell later on”. If you do that, then how do you make restitution by putting off repentance of what you do offensive? When does love for others enter in if you do that?
Then, there’s those who don’t want to “dirty there hands” by helping those in need, ever. I know of those who make plenty of money, but would not pay Fast Offerings. Or work at a Bishop’s Storehouse, ever. Or work at a Welfare systems orchard. Or work in a Family History Library. Or split with the Missionaries, ever. Yet, if I forget or get too tired for a Building clean, I get a serious tongue lashing from the RS President over it.
I had a semi-toxic father. He hinted that he would make up for the things he did by leaving us an inheritance, but his second wife rewrote his Will & took almost everything.
Maybe I’m missing the OP’s point.
Comment by Mike H. — December 9, 2009 @ 12:53 am
You pray for those that use you, not sign up for more and hand them opportunities to stomp on you.
Obviously I’m biased because of how I decided to handle my own version of this story, but I believe with all my heart that we have to protect ourselves from the abusers in the world and that doesn’t make us unChristian or poor disciples. Christ had boundaries too, and he was nearly violent defending them. These people are moneychangers in your temple. You need to kick them out. What shape that takes it up to you.
Sara, if you haven’t read my story, click that link. I have so been where you are now. I am the only one who stuck to no contact, all my siblings continue to enable her behavior in one way or another, and there have been big costs. But there have been WAY bigger rewards. I can’t even begin to describe the relief and freedom I feel without all that toxicity in my life. I am free to develop into the best version of myself, free to be emotionally intimate without waiting for betrayal, free to be the protagonist in my own life instead of spending all my energy catering to the needs of an unstable and unwell person. Be brave, you’ll find those rewards.
Comment by Reese Dixon — December 9, 2009 @ 1:04 am
It is important to remember, when it comes to toxic relationships in our lives, that it is possible to love someone from a distance. You can kick someone out of your life, love them without contact, and welcome them back when they have reformed.
It is also important to recognize that steps taken for self-preservation are not selfish. I don’t like entitlement generally, but we should all feel entitled to be well and safe and happy. The people we allow to be in our lives should not be permitted to disrupt that well-being.
Comment by Amy — December 9, 2009 @ 1:47 am
3 years ago i cut off contact with my parents, started a new blog which i wrote anonymously, and became a bit paranoid about who i told about it. it was my safe-haven from them. for 2 years i was free of the chains that my relationship with them kept me trapped by. then a year ago i realized they’d found my blog, and read the whole thing, and i felt re-violated. i wrote about what i did next…and that was the last time i had any contact with them.
opening the pandora’s box of my life has been painful, but good too. it’s been a hard year, but one of growth and movement in a healthy direction.
sometimes it’s a matter of survival to distance ourselves from people who are enslaving us, emotionally or otherwise. fresh courage take! ♥
Comment by Blue — December 9, 2009 @ 1:49 am
I’ve been there, with my ex-husband. I stayed for 22 years. He very nearly killed my soul - I became a shell of the loving, extroverted, happy and generous young woman I was when I married.
I lived that every day, I know how you feel. I know the absolute heartbreak of having your deepest joys and fears used against you.
The only way I found the strength to finally even think of leaving was when I started to talk about it…. to bring the guilt and the pain and the dirty feelings of somehow being unworthy of love and deserving of every insult, every sneer, every dinner I had to clean off the floor and broken lamp; bring those feelings out into the light and let the truth rip the ugliness apart.
That was the start. But it still wasn’t enough… it took my teenage daughters having anxiety attacks, fail school, hook up with the wrong people in their hurry to get the heck out of the house… it took my baby girl getting diagnosed with an eating disorder, and finally it took a “it’s me or him” letter from her. I was a tough nut to crack, my soul was so numb and my mental energy was sucked away.
I don’t know how long this has been going on, Guest. The fact that you are posting about this is a “good” thing. You have strength you probably don’t recognize.
Being here on this board, you probably are conflicted about what you should do because your religion tells you that you have the duty to forgive, that you need to shoulder these responsibilities…. I don’t want to assume too much, but I’m betting you have a heavy load of guilt on your shoulders. Undeserved guilt, honey.
I can tell you that what i learned in retrospect is that absolutely nothing I did or didn’t do caused him to be the beast he was to me, and nothing I did or didn’t do helped him in the long run to change. That change has to come from within, and even changing yourself in an effort to make whoever it is SEE what they are doing… will not work. You can’t fill the hole they have in their own soul, you can’t give them a piece of yours to patch their’s up.
Forgive me if I’m over-dramatizing, but if you or an innocent person in your family are being physically hurt, get out. Get out now.
If not, you can continue the same way you are going, but the overwhelming statistics say nothing will change. The change needs to be for you, and in you. You have responsibility only for yourself and anyone truly dependent on you.
I wish you well.
Comment by Lianne — December 9, 2009 @ 2:09 am
Leave, go, get away from the abuse. That’s the very first thing to do!
Secondly, establish safety for yourself. Even if it takes moving hundreds of miles away or whatever. Get free and stay free. Then you will come to realize that you don’t deserve to be treated badly. That it’s the abusers who are wrong, not you. That you are not worthless. You are a child of God with a divine nature and limitless potential.
Thirdly, mourn for what you have lost. Immerse yourself in images and books and stories with loving families. Imagine for yourself your ideal family, what life would be like, what you would feel if you were raised in a warm healthy loving environment. Mourn for what you’ve lost, and be determined to build something better for yourself. Choose a better way.
Fourth, reconnect with others, choosing only people who treat you well and you treat them well in return. Be kind, supportive, generous and trusting of each other. Build back what was torn away from you. Be healed. Become whole again (or for the first time).
You can do it because you’re extremely strong. Nobody who was weak could have survived what you have. You have the power and the choice. You can set about to develop the skills you need. You will make it!
Comment by Tatiana — December 9, 2009 @ 4:40 am
You pray for those that use you, not sign up for more and hand them opportunities to stomp on you.
this
and cyber hugs for having too much of these people in your life. too much = one
Comment by britt — December 9, 2009 @ 8:11 am
There’s a HUGE difference between loving someone and keeping them in your life. Yes, Jesus asks us to love one another as we love Him, and to treat each other as true neighbors in the Christian sense of the word–BUT this absolutely does NOT mean putting yourself in harm’s way, or sacrificing your own sanity and sense of self worth. Sometimes, the most loving thing we can do is end the relationship. That we sometimes choose to distance ourselves, or outright cut off contact, in no way means we’re being angry, or acting out of vengeance or spite.
Ultimately, it’s the intention that matters. Jesus asks us to love, yes–but we also need to love ourselves. In practical terms, I think this commandment is really about making sure that, as we use our free agency, we act with loving intention–NOT that we make ourselves doormats. Jesus certainly wasn’t a doormat.
Comment by CJ — December 9, 2009 @ 9:13 am
I completely agree with Reese on this one:
The question of when to cut off contact (and when to resume it) has been a very difficult one for my husband, who grew up with parents who had a terrible relationship, mostly due to an alcoholic mother. When his parents divorced, his mom gave up custody of the kids in exchange for more money from his dad. Let me tell you, knowing that your mom pretty much sold you to your dad without looking back will do all kinds of things for a 13 year old’s self-esteem. Because she went on to remarry a few times and was in and out of rehab, my DH had very little contact with his mom from that point on - they rarely knew where she was or if she was even alive.
Now we have a different kind of decision to make. After spending some time in jail, his mom is doing well (she’s been clean for a few years) and now that she has grandkids she wants to have a relationship with her children again. I worry that my husband will regret it when she eventually dies if he never had a reconciliation with her when he had a chance to. But I know that he has levels of hurt I can’t even imagine, so I don’t push him on this at all. He is afraid that if he opens his life to her she will just let him down again. I think the best my DH can manage at this point is to forgive her in his heart. For everything else, it really might be too late.
Comment by Anon for hubby — December 9, 2009 @ 9:27 am
I’m going to deliberately miss the point and argue that the whole premise of the post is wrong. Neither the scriptures nor the story in the linked post say we should love others like we love Jesus.
The story tells us we should serve others like we would serve Jesus. Whether or not we have warm and fuzzy feelings about it is immaterial.
From the scriptures, we get two standards: “Love thy neighbor as thyself”, and “As I have loved you, love one another”. The former isn’t a very high standard, at least for me, so I won’t dwell on it. The latter, however, turns the original post on its head and provides an alternative way of looking at things. Of course Jesus isn’t mentally ill, passive aggressive, or a bottomless well of hostility. But Jesus loves people who are all of those things and worse. The question is, what does that mean? It doesn’t mean he is responsible for fixing them. So we aren’t responsible for fixing anyone either. It doesn’t mean he he is obliged to enable them. So we aren’t obliged to enable anyone either. It means that he is willing to forgive them. For us, that means abandoning any desire for punishment, whether delivered by ourselves or a third party. So get out of toxic relationships, but don’t seek to punish the other party. That’s it.
Unless it’s your minor child. Then, getting out isn’t really an option. But still forgive. Once you are free of legal responsibility, things can change if you let them.
Comment by Last Lemming — December 9, 2009 @ 9:52 am
Love and forgiveness REQUIRE establishing necessary boundaries with toxic or abusive people.
Divorce is a very difficult but one such necessary boundary in some cases (speaking from experience).
Sometimes all the kings horses and all the kings men and all the therapists and therapy dollars in the world can’t put Humpty back together again.
Don’t be afraid to walk away and not look back if the situation is as toxic as it sounds.
Comment by Rich — December 9, 2009 @ 10:31 am
The OP took me off guard because it could have been me writing it (well maybe not so articulately!). The only difference I’d say is that there are so many vicissitudes - sometimes, maybe 1/3 of the time, this describes my life, 1/3 of the time it’s more even-keeled, and 1/3 of the time, we’re good. But certainly even that “even-keeled” time discombobulates me because I’m getting ready for the other shoe to drop.
I tire of people saying “Just leave!” It’s not that easy. I know I’ve personally distanced myself from others because I get tired of hearing that. But then I think of the last 10 years that have been like this (really, it’s been longer, but it’s been that long that I’ve admitted it to myself) and then I wonder, do I want in ten years to be in this same position? I think if I *would* have left ten years ago, it would have been hard, but wouldn’t I be in a better place now?
This was a big reason I quit going to church - I tired of the “Oh how great you are that you do x,” when x was tearing our family apart. I tired of being married to a hypocrite and I quit pretending at church, and he quit going too. So now we’re even more isolated. (Those inactives who complain about the ward not giving them any peace - not us!)
I think the church is an excellent place to pretend that all is well even when it’s not.
Comment by anon for this — December 9, 2009 @ 10:36 am
I think the goal is not loving people like we love Jesus, it’s loving people like Jesus loves them. Either way, not an easy task, especially when you’re suffering as you have. I hope you begin to feel better and that the members of the church especially will gain a better understanding of mental illness from your honest words.
Comment by Motion de Smiths — December 9, 2009 @ 11:11 am
There’s a great book, Love is a Choice, that I recommend for anybody who’s having trouble breaking the ties in an abusive relationship. 24 and 27 have it right– we are supposed to love others not as we love Jesus, but as He loves us. That is a WHOLE other commandment– because of course Jesus is perfect, and He saved us, and He’s easy to love. But Him loving us in our broken state– that takes some grappling to understand. And sometimes, even when you have to break off a troubled relationship, it is humbling to remember how Jesus loves us despite our own brokenness (and though our issues may not always be as obvious as in the OP, we each have our own problems and no one’s is worse or better).
Comment by Rose — December 9, 2009 @ 11:22 am
I so know what its like to have family members that fit that description.
I also know, cutting ties with them isn’t really practical or optional in most circumstances.
Distance can sure help though. And I am a big fan of pharmaceuticals.
You can still love your mentally ill family members, but that doesn’t mean you have to subject yourself to their hostility.
Comment by julie — December 9, 2009 @ 12:10 pm
I was once given a blessing that referred to forgiveness. I was warned that there would be those that would hurt me unintentionally, and those that would intentionally do so. Not a really happy thing to learn. Forgiveness blesses both those who earnestly seek it (whether or not it is granted by man), and those who give it (whether or not it is sought). One the first hand, when we are earnest in our desire to atone we humble ourselves and become open to the teachings of the Spirit. One the other hand, along with the blessings of the Spirit, we rid our souls of the canker that has the potential to taint every aspect of our lives, and we have the opportunity to see others as God sees them. When we forgive, we take back the power that other’s have wielded against us. Forgiveness also releases us from harboring ill-will towards others, the antithesis of the gospel of Christ. This does not mean that we are to open ourselves to harm, or continue to live in harm’s way. God did not give his children agency and the ability to reason, and then not expect them to make wise use them. Unfortunately, others’ use/abuse of agency oftentimes brings about great harm. Not everyone is good. Some people do turn their backs on all that is right and good.
We adopted my cousin’s child. My cousin has severe mental problems including bio-polar and borderline personality disorder, which is not a pretty mix. My cousin really does feel love for her child, but she is a true danger. My job as a parent is to keep my children safe, physically, mentally and emotionally; from others and themselves (We’ve had some self-harming behaviors come up and had to add that one). My husband and I made the decision of absolutely-no-contact-of-any-kind, and were backed up by the child’s therapist, social services, and the police, against the wishes of some family members who had a more intimate knowledge of the situation and problems. This has caused several rifts in the family, and even resulted in no unsupervised visitation with her grandparents because we cannot trust them to keep to the no contact rule.
I cannot say that I have forgiven my cousin for the extensive harm she caused her child, but over the years I have gone through some steps of not actively wishing her harm, ambivalence, and then where I am now to hoping that she can eventually find some personal peace in her life, far away from me and mine.
I am truly sorry that there are those who were abandoned in their time of need. I have tried to support people through their hard times and some I was able to keep in contact with. Other times, the support became a drain on my own family and my limited emotional resources, and I really could not continue beyond sincerely praying for the people involved.
Comment by JJ — December 9, 2009 @ 12:27 pm
I only have a couple of things to point out. First, I think the commandment we strive to meet is to love others as Jesus loves us, not that we love others as we love Jesus. He doesn’t cut us any slack for evil behavior, just forgives us when we truly repent. And second, if you read carefully the sparse accounts we have of Jesus’ love in the scriptures, you can see that he wasn’t selfless at all, just innocent of any evil intent. There were times when Jesus took a detour to avoid the throngs of people who chased after him. He was very wise, and even wily in avoiding the traps laid for him by people who feared him speaking the truth about them, or who were jealous of his popularity, or whatever evil they had in their heart against him, he took steps to protect himself. (At least until he chose to submit to them, which he did for very wise reasons.)
There should be no guilt in us protecting ourselves from people who don’t care if they hurt us.
And that’s backed up by scripture.
Comment by Mommie Dearest — December 9, 2009 @ 1:22 pm
God wouldn’t have sent you to a world based on a plan called “happiness” with the potential to become a god without sending you with tools to do all He knew you would have to do to qualify. That includes being in relationships with other people who are responding, reacting and managing life to the best of their “abilty” at any given moment. It’s not required to give abusers emnity in order for you to have permission to be happy and live in peace. But it is required of you to forgive yourself.
Maybe you ought to educate yourself on the powerful tools your religon has available to you for clearing and healing your history, empowering your present and choosing for your future instead of basing the fate of your life on others around you.
Study how the laws of repentance apply to emotions and forgiveness applies to yourself. Look into meditation and prayer and the effects it has on the whole self and inner peace. Do some research into Lamrim, the Buddist meditation path, you’ll find that all of the principles Buddist monks use to reach “nirvana” are taught in your Sunday lessons and in the scriptures. Look into the Law of Attraction and the Science of Getting Rich and notice how gratitude and sevice are the foundations for success.
The truth is, it rains on everyone whether you believe in God or not. The other truth is, thousands of people around the world have inner peace free from judgement and guilt and are filled with unconditional love and compassion. So Get Over Yourself, Because the truth is, you reap what you sow in all areas of your life. Learn how to use choice and accountability to make a change in your life. You have everything you need to create the life of your dreams at your fingertips. Trust, Focus, Do It. And stop spreading the dis-ease of abuse by enrolling others into your pain, that’s rowing the boat upstream and inviting your buddies to jump on board. All you are wanting is down stream, go with the flow, let go of the pain.
I should know, I lived in an abusive marraige for thirteen years, endured a five year bloody divorce and chose into co-dependent relationships over and over again. Until I didn’t.
Comment by Finding Balance — December 9, 2009 @ 1:58 pm
“So Get Over Yourself, Because the truth is, you reap what you sow in all areas of your life.”
Guest, I am sorry that someone has chosen this attitude. Your pain is real and, while there certainly are options for you, you did not deserve your situation, despite the unhelpful, preachy (and, in my opinion, incorrect) assertions in #32.
If you can, focus on the many, many other (hopefully) helpful, kind comments here. I wish you peace.
Comment by Lawyer Lady — December 9, 2009 @ 2:53 pm
When the savior speaks of unconditional love, I believe he also intends for that to mean for us to love ourselves that way. To forgive ourselves, and to not put ourselves in continually abusive or toxic relationships. Sometimes, we have to choose. Allowing the person who has trampled our trust to have yet another opportunity to hurt us, or to let yourself move on and leave that relationship which causes so much pain and sorrow. Forgiving doesn’t mean forgetting, and it isn’t always for the other person’s benefit. Sometimes, forgiveness, means letting go of the anger or resentment and simply not letting that person or situation affect your ability to love. If leaving a relationship helps your ability to love, then it is the right decision.
Comment by RJ — December 9, 2009 @ 3:13 pm
dear anon perma, my child is potty training and has a seriously aggressive relationship with the computer right now, threatening to pee on it any time I open the screen. I promise to try and write more later. I just want to say that I wish I could wrap you in my arms, throw a gigantic shield between you and the toxic people hurting you, extract the pain from your heart, and feed you massive quantities of chocolate. People care. I care. Hang on.Hang on to those who will hold out their arms–because a lot of us will.
Comment by Janet — December 9, 2009 @ 3:25 pm
In OSC’s book, Stone Tables, one of the characters talks about how it isn’t hard to make a covenant with God. When it gets hard is when it comes to keeping the covenant in our relationships with others. That’s the real test. Some days I feel like I’m just failing it miserably.
Comment by Nan — December 9, 2009 @ 3:30 pm
So you should have the courage to comment under the name you typically comment under.
tsk.tsk.tsk.
Comment by admin — December 9, 2009 @ 3:46 pm
#37 hahaha! love it.
Comment by Lawyer Lady — December 9, 2009 @ 3:53 pm
#37. Umm, I know who Finding Balance is. I told her about this post. She has never posted here before and just learned about the blog from me. But she is great. You will lover her insight as she works with women.
Comment by StillConfused — December 9, 2009 @ 3:59 pm
oops “you will love her insight”
Comment by StillConfused — December 9, 2009 @ 4:05 pm
I just got home from errands, and while I was driving I was listening to Dr Laura beat up on some poor woman because her “whiny attitude” was annoying to the good doctor. Yes, she actually said that to a woman who was calling about her husband who had hit her for the first time in their 30-some year marriage after she discovered that he was having an affair with her best friend. The main idea of the advice this poor soul got was that she and her husband had been distant for decades and she needed to toughen up and face the truth about it all so she could move on. It’s all fresh in my mind.
I don’t know why I torture myself listening to that radio program.
I guess Doc Laura was right about her needing to face hard stuff so she could move on and become a tough cookie, so to speak; she got that part right, but it’s a bit much to expect that process to happen in the course of a 5 minute phone call. Me, I am willing to give a suffering soul some sympathy while they do whatever it is they need to do in their own good time.
I also neglected to give the guest poster a hug in my previous comment, and would like to correct that. I don’t know you personally but I could feel how much pain you are in. I hope you find a way to escape, and I hope you let the Lord help you escape.
Comment by Mommie Dearest — December 9, 2009 @ 4:06 pm
#39
I wouldn’t dare say Finding Balance has nothing of value to offer women; I just find her approach very off-putting. Maybe, I’m overly sensitive, but telling someone who is in serious and real pain that they should get over themselves is pretty harsh and mean. I also understand that sometimes we need firm advice in these instances but, to me, her message is one of balme and “put up or shut up”.
Maybe I misunderstand but I honestly can not read it any differently.
Comment by Lawyer Lady — December 9, 2009 @ 4:24 pm
I think it’s really easy to say “You’ve got the tools, use them.” or “Get over yourself.” when you’re safely on the other side of the abuse. It’s like any extreme experience - the recent AA member preaches that everyone needs rehab, the new convert shouts the gospel to anyone nearby, the formerly infertile mother cooing over her baby as if it’s the first one ever made.
But that ignores the years of work it took to finally take that last step and cross over towards health. It takes time to mourn these relationships. It takes time to find the courage to make the tough decisions. It takes time to figure out what the right decisions are. I had to cut off all contact, but someone else might be able to retain a civil relationship while accepting the limitations of it. That is all a process.
A process that needs support.
Guest, I’ve told the ones in the know to pass along my information, and I’m sincere in hoping you’ll use it.
Comment by Reese Dixon — December 9, 2009 @ 4:33 pm
StillConfused
I don’t understand how mixed metaphors and phony platitudes of prodigious proportions actually help people?
My advise for anyone is to seek out competent and properly licensed professionals who have a grounding in reality based science.
Comment by Suzanne Neilsen — December 9, 2009 @ 4:39 pm
Finding Balance: There needs to be balance in “you reap what you sow in all areas of your life” as well. What of child abuse victims? Did they sow something “bad” earlier to get that?
Then, Pres. Packer was visiting the Teton Dam disaster region shortly after that event in 1976. One person near him had said “What did we do to deserve this?” He replied that some suffering has nothing to do with committing sin. Look at the Savior. Did he do something wrong to have all that happen?
Comment by Mike H. — December 9, 2009 @ 4:41 pm
I think that the first time I listened to Dr Laura, I was surprised at her brashness. But after hearing the same types of calls come in to her, I greatly appreciated her brashness. It is very frustrating to hear people complain about their situation but not take bold action to address it.
I am probably a hard ass, but the approach that I take is that I give someone one or two free whines and then after that I tell the woman that she is welcome to commiserate as long as she needs for her healing process but that I will not be a part of that. Instead, when she is done with that and ready to move on, I will be there to help her in that phase of her life. That is why I run a “post-crisis” education center.
So as tough as you guys are on Finding Balance, you would probably find me a lot harder. But that is because I expect strength out of women — we are daughters of God after all. And when someone is ready to be strong and just needs someone to bounce ideas off of or some knowledge as to what resources are available, then I am her strongest advocate and supporter.
Comment by StillConfused — December 9, 2009 @ 4:42 pm
Well, at least I know who to avoid in my time of need…
Comment by Lawyer Lady — December 9, 2009 @ 4:44 pm
#44 _ I have no idea what you are trying to say but I support you in your decision to refer people to professionals.
Comment by StillConfused — December 9, 2009 @ 4:44 pm
46
I don’t think you’re a “hard ass.” I think you’re “Finding Balance.” Which makes you…kind of sad.
I could be wrong. But I doubt it.
Comment by crazywomancreek — December 9, 2009 @ 4:53 pm
I do find it interesting that those of us who have been through tough trials tend to appear to be the “hardest” on those who are in a bad place. I have often wondered why that was the case.
I know when I look back in school, my favorite teachers were not those who cut me slack because I was in foster care but those who expected nothing short of perfection from me. When I look for a fitness coach, I want someone who is going to demand that I reach inside and give more than I even thought I had to give.
I think sometimes it is easy to say that “being compassionate” (e.g being soft) with someone in crisis is the better approach, but I wonder if that is truly the case. I wonder if those of us who are being “mean” by demanding that the person work as hard as they can to get out are really the bad guys.
I know that looking back on my life, those people who were the most influential to me were those who did not baby me but pushed me to make my best better. Did anyone else have that experience? Are there folks out there where the opposite approach worked better?
Comment by StillConfused — December 9, 2009 @ 4:58 pm
#49 Sorry Crazy Woman Creek, my name is Pattie S. Christensen. I am an attorney and director of a charity. You can google me if you like. My emails and phone numbers are readily available. Elle Eyre, aka Finding Balance, is a life coach who has done amazing work. If you are on facebook, you can see her as one of my friends. She is a great gal who has touched many lives and I have referred people to her for finding direction. It is interesting that you would think that we are the same person because I am a very logic based person (accountant, air traffic controller and attorney- what would you expect), whereas Elle is creative and dynamic. She and I do share one passion though, and that is helping people find their own goals, passions and visions and living their lives the best they can however they define it.
Comment by StillConfused — December 9, 2009 @ 5:03 pm
#50,
If someone would have approached me in this “tough girl” fashion in an attempt to help me, I would have found it intimidating and hurtful and would have retreated further into my shell.
To Mike H.’s point, how do you blame a child who is the recipient of abuse? And how is it ever good to shame anyone into “getting their act together”?
No one here, as far as I can tell, ever said anything about cutting Guest some slack. I’m not sure it is even relevant at this point of the conversation. And yes, a heavy dose of compassion/being soft can work wonders for a victim of abuse.
Comment by Lawyer Lady — December 9, 2009 @ 5:15 pm
Still Confused, it says a lot to me that you see things so black and white. To be compassionate is to be soft, to be demanding is being strong.
Why can’t we be both? I think the Savior is a great model for that. Since you work in post crisis, I’m sure you understand that there is a time and place and need for both approaches. There is a way to be gentle and firm at the same time. Someone could say “I know it hurts, but it’s the right thing to do.” Instead of “You reap what you sow.” One blames the victim, the other is compassionate and yet unyielding.
Comment by Reese Dixon — December 9, 2009 @ 5:15 pm
I think it’s possible to follow the path the Lord showed us, where we have patience and compassion and at the same time expecting strength and honesty from others. The two approaches are not mutually exclusive. Being kind to people is not babying them, and expecting the best from people is not being harsh.
Comment by Mommie Dearest — December 9, 2009 @ 5:18 pm
Lol I guess I was saying “amen” to Reese.
Comment by Mommie Dearest — December 9, 2009 @ 5:19 pm
StillConfused,
I have a genuine question for you; please tell me, how can the phrase “Get Over Yourself” ever begin to heal and help someone who has been the target of extreme abuse?
I’d really like to know that answer to that.
Comment by Lawyer Lady — December 9, 2009 @ 5:20 pm
StillConfused
What I’m saying is that people don’t have to thoroughly masticate their food to be healthy, wealthy and wise.
I’ll let in on a secret, Wallace D Wattles(RIP), Michael J Losier, and Laura Schlessinger seem to demonstrate a minuscule understanding of science.
And Schlessingers lack of proper credentials hasn’t hurt her bank accounts.
Perhaps I should put out a book and call it, “The Science of Gibberish and How to make it work for you.” But I think that people who need help should seek out competent and properly licensed professionals.
Comment by Suzanne Neilsen — December 9, 2009 @ 5:21 pm
#52 - your first paragraph makes sense. If a person is very weak, then a tough approach may cause them to sink further into their shell. Trying to decide how much a person can handle at a tender stage in life is difficult. I would say that mine is more along the lines of “tough love”. I think that we each do the approach that we feel best serves those in our worlds. That is why I am not a crisis worker but rather a post-crisis worker. I think a different personality type may be order based on the different aspects of a particular situation.
Separately, there has been some discussion about child abuse. I was abused as a child and subsequently moved to foster care. Some pretty funky stuff happened back then. But if you were to ask me today if I would have chosen a different background, the answer would be no. Having those challenges, as well as the other challenges I have had in life, have made me who I am today and I am a stronger person because of that. Many times the challenges in our lives is from whence our passions come and where we are truly able to rise to the occasion.
Finally, unfortunately, folks going through what the OP is going through are all too common. We all have ways that we desire to help that person based upon our life experiences and our gifts and talents. Some may seem softer and some may seem harder — or whatever adjectives/adverbs you would like to use. The more options that she has available from which she can choose the better. If she just needs a hug and a kiss and words of comfort, then there are those who will gladly give that; if she needs a plan of escape, then there are those who will help with that; if she needs to find her inner goddess, then there are those who will help her with that. I wish we all knew what her purpose was in posting this. I wish we all knew what she wanted and needed.
Comment by StillConfused — December 9, 2009 @ 5:33 pm
#56, My response would be that when a person has been in a position of being abused, especially for extended periods of time, they may become inwardly focused and feel that everything is being done “to them.” It is when they start to look outside of themselves that they can see the whole world and all that it has to offer.
Again, I don’t work in crisis situations so by the time a person comes to me, they have determined to move away from the lifestyle choices that put them in their prior place. They are not looking for me to rescue them but rather for some tools to build their ideal world, however they define it.
I would hope that all women understand that they are daughters of God and that abuse upon them is never tolerable. If you are in a bad situation, get out. If not for you then for your children. There is no reason to keep people like that in your world. Even if you are a child, you can request to be put in foster care if your homelife is so dysfunctional. We are to be good stewards of our bodies and our spirits. Each one of us has the strength inside of us to demand the world that we deserve. No one can take your self esteem from you — it is after all “self” esteem. If you are in a situation where you feel your self esteem is being attacked, please move yourself to a different place. A place that gives you peace and comfort however you choose to define it. Allowing yourself to remain in an abusive situation kills you - mind, body and soul. I for one know you deserve better.
Comment by StillConfused — December 9, 2009 @ 5:43 pm
Like you, SC, I would not change my upbringing - as horrific as it was. I have stated nearly word-for-word what you stated in the second paragraph of #58. I do, sometimes, wish, though that I had the experience, innocence and carefree-ness of childhood
Comment by Lawyer Lady — December 9, 2009 @ 5:47 pm
“Even if you are a child, you can request to be put in foster care if your homelife is so dysfunctional.”
Whoa, whoa, whoa! That is not necessarily the case. I had no idea what CPS or foster care even was when I was a kid. And my mother literally threatened my brother and I with death f we told anyone. That is a threat I took very seriously after starring down the barrel of a gun held by her (amongst many other episodes).
Comment by Lawyer Lady — December 9, 2009 @ 5:51 pm
#60 - you know what LL, I can understand what you are saying but I have a personal story about that. When I was growing up, I had a best friend Stephanie. She came from a loving two parent family with just one sibling and more than enough food to go around. She had received a large inheritance as a child. She had a great and charmed childhood. But when it came time to become an adult, she couldn’t make the transition. It was very difficult for me to watch because I couldn’t understand it. I really think that it is the challenges that give us the strength and mold us into the strong women that we are. Besides, now that we are adults, we can have those fun times when we can actually afford to do it up right. My son is a senior in college and so very soon I will be able to take those fun vacations and take some additional classes etc. You and I didn’t miss out on anything, we just chose to experience it at a different time.
Comment by StillConfused — December 9, 2009 @ 5:55 pm
I think that we frequently confuse forgiveness with enabling the sinner to continue to offend.You may choose to forgive,or embark on the process of doing so,and set a boundary to the offender’s behaviour.S/he is no more,nor less valuable than you are.I hope you can feel the strength of the women here walking with you on your journey.We think you deserve better.
Comment by wayfarer — December 9, 2009 @ 6:00 pm
Here’s a reason - not knowing any better. If your parents instruct you that the world is a scary, unfriendly, horrible place, you stay with the devil you know. It wasn’t until I went off to college that I realized anything hinky was going on. This was my normal.
If your spouse has financial control and you don’t know that opportunities or aid exist, you stay where you know you will get fed.
If the version of the gospel that has been taught to you includes an honoring of your parents no matter what, at the threat of your immortal soul, you try to deal with the dysfunction.
SC, your messages of empowerment are important, but without being tempered with some understanding you’re just bashing people over the head with them. Does anything in that OP sound post-crisis to you?
Comment by Reese Dixon — December 9, 2009 @ 6:12 pm
I getting to the point where I don’t know just who to side with now.
I was thinking even before this that some people don’t know the difference between “Tough Love” and a plain lack of love.
I’m not sure if that is possible to be granted even today100% of the time. I’m 50, and CPS was pretty weak when I was growing up, to the point where a child would have to be maimed or killed to get attention. I know, for my sister had broke her arm once while skating, but my father was so angry at her about another issue he refused to let her see a Doctor about it. My parents ignored a note from my sister’s school Nurse about the arm needing attention a few days later.
Some years later, an x-ray for a wrist problem showed that an unset arm fracture caused the wrist problem.
On the other hand, we had a visit from CPS a few months ago. They got a call about how filthy our house was, about it smelling like animals, about dishes stacked up. The CPS person came, and seemed to feel that claim was grossly exaggerated. Yes, there a slight smell from having 2 cats & 2 guinea pigs, but not overwhelming.
This dishes were mostly caught up on when the CPS came unannounced.
I’m pretty sure it was someone in my Ward I had a disagreement with a few days before who turned us in.
Comment by Mike H. — December 9, 2009 @ 6:32 pm
I turned my parents into CPS in 1999, and they came to the house, saw there wasn’t immediate danger to life, and went on to help the kids who were in immediate danger. That’s pretty much the standard these days, so Mike’s right when he says a child can’t receive foster care because they request it.
There is a whole lot of wrong that can happen before a life is in immediate danger. Wrong that I, for one, had no choice but to just live with until I could find my own way out.
Comment by Reese Dixon — December 9, 2009 @ 6:39 pm
Yes, Mike, CPS has certainly changed its practices over the years and probably functions differently depending on location.
I am 36 and, at that time, corporal punishment was more accepted than it is today. However, once I realized that my home-life was out of the ordinary (around age8, I believe) I had no idea who to tell, how to go about it, if someone could or would actually help, etc. I felt completely frightened and utterly helpless.
I am sorry about your situation with CPS - pretty awful of someone to call CPS for a messy house.
Comment by Lawyer Lady — December 9, 2009 @ 6:40 pm
Reese, you are right and one of the worst things that can happen to a child in an abusive home is the child turning in the abuser, the abuser being confronted but the child is not removed from the home. The risk of the backlash from that is too great for scared children.
I thought about telling my Dad so often. But I was terrified that he would confront my mother with my allegations, that he wouldn’t actually remove me from the home and that there would be hell to pay as a result.
Comment by Lawyer Lady — December 9, 2009 @ 6:44 pm
I’ve heard of this happening and it makes me so mad people would do that. How passive aggressive can you get. CPS are great people but if fed some wrong info and brought into your home on a bad day, they could ruin your life a little. I’ve got a deep secret fear this would happen one day.
Of course we are also on very good terms with our adoption social worker, so if I did happen I guess we’d have someone on our side, too.
Sorry. That was kind of a triggering comment for me. Original Poster:
I’ve been in a similar position. And I’m sorry.
I can’t give you advice because I have no idea, from your post, whom you are talking about (spouse, child, parent, dependent of some other kind, close relative) but I will tell you that one thing that really helped me when I was living with an abusive, unpredictable husband, was to be doing something for me. I took voice lessons, and it became kind of an obsession, but it opened the door for self-expression and it was MINE. He could not touch it.
I hope things get better for you soon and you find some helpful answers from this thread, or if you just wanted a shoulder to cry on I hope posting that has helped.
Comment by sare — December 9, 2009 @ 10:58 pm
(I should be clear that this is addressed to StillConfused and this later conversation, not to the OP. . . )
You know, I had a charmed childhood. My parents were kind and firm, they expected a lot from us, but let us choose our own paths. We had (and have) our issues, but really, childhoods don’t come any better than mine. Further, I married young, stupid yeah, but I was really lucky and my relationship with dh while not perfect, is a loving and fulfilling joyful one.
I don’t know why my life has been so smooth. But even with all this ease and privilege, I somehow turned out to be a strong woman. It’s true, my good childhood didn’t turn me into a simpering spineless weakling. Imagine.
I guess I didn’t have a trust fund, so maybe that was my saving grace, but my point is that generalizations can really annoying in conversations like these. I know so many strong people, lovely wonderful people who are products of a whole mixed bag of childhood experiences. Good, Bad, and Ugly.
There have been rather a lot of studies on resilience, actually, trying to pinpoint how and why it is that some people can “pull themselves up by their bootstraps” and muscle their way out of horrible situations, and why others cave after the merest bump in the road.
And you want to know the number one indicator that a person is likely to be resilient, to be able to tough it out, and get over themselves? Well it happens to be just one more thing that is entirely beyond our control: Intelligence. The smarter you are, the more likely you will overcome bad odds, abusive relationships, impossible situations, and still figure out a way to thrive.
Unfortunately, intelligence isn’t something you can just buy at Walmart, and it’s not something you can will yourself to have, it’s not something you can change at all. That’s uncomfortable and we don’t like it, I’m not saying that to be mean, them’s just the facts ma’am. Life is just not fair.
As always it’s a generalization, many people of average even below average intelligence, manage to overcome all kinds of long odds and thrive. And there are more than a few examples of highly intelligent people with the resilience of pudding.
But when I look at that big picture, when it is clear that a pure random lucky break like high intelligence has such a powerful (the most powerful) influence on the choices people make, on the options they have, on the life they can make for themselves . . . . it seems just plain old wrong, mean, cruel, untenible to say “I did it, so why can’t you, lazy spineless chump.”
I guess we can just assume less intelligent people deserve to suffer.
Comment by fMhLisa — December 9, 2009 @ 11:32 pm
I just realized I should be clear that I was not addressing that intelligence thing toward the original poster. I don’t know who it is, and know nothing about this posters specific resilience/intelligence (and it doesn’t even sound like were at the resilience stage yet anyhow) , just making a general point . . .
Comment by fMhLisa — December 9, 2009 @ 11:36 pm
I just finished reading a book written for adult children of mothers with borderline personality disorder. The book included a lot of horrific examples and I know that by comparison, my case is a mild one. My mother certainly did not “use [her] intelligence, [her] knowledge about me, to try and break me down.” Yet here I am, nearly ten years after moving out, shaking and in physical pain because just prior to checking this website I was trying to complete an assignment given to me by my therapist by writing a list of the things I hate and love about myself. I find too little to love, too much to hate, and little sense of leeway. My poor, abused mother inadvertently taught me that I’m a terrible person because I make mistakes, and now I’m desperately trying to fix myself before I do the same thing to my daughter.
So, Guest, whoever is troubling you, you need to get help with it now! Perhaps that is what Finding Balance meant when she said to get over yourself? It wasn’t the best turn of phrase, especially over the internet where things are easily misinterpreted. But as difficult and scary as it may be, you do realize something is wrong in your relationship (I never realized that fully until very recently), and to let things remain the way they are will only bring more misery on yourself AND others you care about. Posting here could be an excellent first step. It is only if you let it end with that that it becomes “spreading the dis-ease of abuse by enrolling others into your pain”, and swimming upstream, etc, etc, like Finding Balance said.
Unfortunately, I can’t offer any advice on how to extricate yourself from an abusive relationship, seeing as how I didn’t realize mine was abusive until last week, and my cutoff came naturally when I moved out for college. I can just say that if you don’t find a way out now, you’ll wish you had later. Jesus loves you, he loves whoever is treating you like crap, and he doesn’t expect you to stay in a bad relationship. Get out now, and worry about treating that person in a Christlike manner later. I’m sure God will forgive you.
Comment by too chicken to use my usual name — December 9, 2009 @ 11:50 pm
OP, I’m rarely inclined to give advice, and this instance is no different. Just know that you are worthy of love and compassion at whatever stage of your journey you find yourself. Writing this post and speaking to your pain is a brave step, and I hope you find some good support not just here, but also IRL among people you can trust. I wish I could throw my arms around you.
Comment by Idahospud — December 10, 2009 @ 1:07 am
Reece, and any others who left me comments to my post- I appreciate your support and words SO much! I read your story to my husand and I kept saying over and over “this is my life” I appreciatte all the strong, compassionate and stregthenening advice and input I get from you all!
Comment by Sara — December 10, 2009 @ 2:55 am
It sounds like someone is using the idea of “Jesus” as a big stick to hit you with. Don’t let them do it. Surely this is the opposite of Jesus’ love. You don’t have to be treated poorly. You don’t have to be treated really really really poorly. Jesus is not a weapon. Get out, live your live.
Comment by djinn — December 10, 2009 @ 2:57 am
When I finally left my abusive marriage in 2004, my then-ward did NOT support my decision. I was told to endure to the end, reminded that those who are not lovable need my love the most, and when I finally went to my then-bishop in desperation about the abuse, I was told that I was a “casualty of war.” Yes, really!
However - this experience eventually strengthened my testimony,paradoxically enough, because after many conversations with Heavenly Father at 3 in the morning face down on the floor while the kids slept, I finally came to believe that I am loved.
I now attend Church in a wonderfully supportive ward, live in a tiny little house with every room painted a different color, and am happier than I’ve been in years.
You deserve better.
Comment by Sherri — December 10, 2009 @ 4:18 am
Is your loved one taking medication? Is it the right kind in the right dose taken as prescribed?
Have you taken the NAMI Family to Family class?
Are you taking care of yourself first by getting enough sleep, exercising, eating a healthy diet and being part of a support group for people in your situation?
Living with mental illness is tough enough without trying to do it alone. Sometimes it is good to talk to a professional and work out your own issues.
Living with a mentally ill loved one, especially a bipolar/psychotic is like living on a rollercoaster. You don’t have to do it alone. I hope things get better.
Comment by Claudia — December 10, 2009 @ 9:02 am
Mea Culpa, Still Confused. “Get over yourself,” just seemed so signature you.
Comment by crazywomancreek — December 10, 2009 @ 2:08 pm
Lisa 70 - that is an interesting point on the intelligence. Based on my limited experiences, I am going to have to say I find it to be true. It gives me a lot to think about. DH and I are fairly intelligent and pulled ourselves up with our bootstraps. All my siblings are as well. Not so much on his side. I have to say that hearing that about intelligence gives me more compassion instead of just, “Hey, you and I did it! What’s wrong with all your brothers?”
too chicken to use my real name, is it “The Borderline Mother”? That’s an excellent book. I’ve read it a couple of times and taken notes. It’s pretty scary when you can read a book and the descriptions in it perfectly describe you and your family members (I am a “good child” - the perfectionist who does everything she is told and is always stressed out about not doing more). I always thought I was so unique! But, someone can sum up my whole life in a few paragraphs. Quite humbling, actually.
Comment by Stephanie — December 10, 2009 @ 2:39 pm
I have always taken that idea as a major warning sign to get help. If you were abused, that does not mean you have to abuse others.
Comment by Mike H. — December 10, 2009 @ 4:54 pm
Mike, I sooo agree. I don’t tell many people around me about our abusive upbringing - rarely on-topic and makes for awkward conversation. But I have to say that I get a bit tired of the expression of the idea that most victims of childhood abuse go on to abuse. I realize that is a real phenomenon, but many choose a different path. I made a REAL. HONEST. OUT-LOUD. REGULAR commitment to never, ever, ever abuse my children or my husband no matter what - not physically, emotionall or verbally. (Not sexually either, of course, but that one doesn’t take effort). I’m pretty sure I’m not perfect :), but I have been able to keep that comittment to my family.
Comment by Lawyer Lady — December 10, 2009 @ 5:04 pm
79-
Yes, that’s it–the one with the frighteningly passive-looking woman painted on the front cover. Gives me the creeps. It was very odd to read it and discover that things I thought were unique, things as small as my waiting until I was moved out to get a driver’s license, are actually part of a pattern. I was the “bad child”, and right now I’m going through the interesting experience of going through all the anger and crap that I’ve been holding in all these years so I can try to learn that I’m not a bad person and the world is not a bad place. This had darn well better make things better in the long run. Bleh. Good luck to you. All of you, in fact.
Comment by too chicken to use my usual name — December 11, 2009 @ 1:54 pm