Dear fMh: Is showing tattoos part of being your authentic self?
By: pdig
I have eight tattoos and the are not small. I have them on both arms and both legs so the only way to keep them covered is by wearing pants (or something equally long) and 3/4 sleeves. I was baptized 5 years ago, and in that time I have always kept my tattoos covered for church. I have questioned many times whether or not that is best. I cover them for two reasons- I think it *might* be more modest and I don’t want to make parents of young kids uncomfortable. The problem is, I often wonder if it isn’t possible that I am missing out on some possible positive effects (maybe some other tattooed person feeling more comfortable at church not being the only one, maybe helping someone become less judgmental about “TATTOOED PEOPLE”).
I am not covering them because I am concerned about how people will treat me, because I rarely cover them in my social life and I have only rarely had an issue, at church events or otherwise. What I mean by that is, when someone else has tried to make it a big deal, I have tried to not let them. I try to not take it personally when people have bad feelings towards me about them.
I’d like to know what you guys think. First, is it “modest” to cover something you don’t like anyway (Modesty as in not drawing attention to yourself?)? Second, what would you, personally, do?
Since I’ve been a member since before I was old enough to get tattoos, mine are where they are easily hidden. But I desperately want to get a tattoo on my wrist, and the only thing stopping me is that I serve in YW and I worry about an example I’d set.
Not because I think tattoos matter at all in the eternities, but because a YW might see it without discussing with me the intense personal significance of it, and assume I endorse a casualness with my body. It’s the assumptions I worry about. Plus pissing off parents.
But, having tattoos has actually been tremendously helpful for me in serving in YW. There has been more than one rebellious, troubled girl who I showed a tattoo to, who instantly discarded her impression of YW leader as a fuddy duddy Molly and suddenly saw me as someone who “gets it.”
Not that that’s reason enough to mark yourself, but I think tattoos are a powerful symbol of being just outside the mold. It’s a really useful shorthand to reach out to other people who aren’t comfortable with the traditional way of being.
Comment by Reese Dixon — March 19, 2010 @ 11:37 am
Are the tattoos of naked people? Or something that would be offensive? If not, I think it is actually very beneficial for kids to see them on someone at church. I know my sweet little daughter can be judgmental sometimes of people who do things different than those she associates at church. I try my best to teach her better, but it is just the nature of kids. She’s talked about the tattoos her teachers have had or piercings that she’s seen and I think it would totally benefit her to see that kind of stuff at church. I’m sure that some other moms would see it differently, but I think all kinds of diversity is so healthy for kids to experience. But there is a mom from my daughters class who has full out p0rn on her arms and never covers it up, even though some people have asked her to. My kids definitely don’t need to see that.
On the other hand, I could see how covering them up would make you feel more modest or respectful at church. So I personally would just go with whatever made me feel the most comfortable. I know if I ever work up the courage to get the tattoos I want (I’m such a weenie) I will totally be showing them off.
Comment by jen — March 19, 2010 @ 11:44 am
There’s a guy in our ward who has tattoos from his neck to his knees and it’s impossible for him to cover them all without putting on a burka, so he doesn’t really try. He wears white shirts and ties but it’s hard not to miss the stars on his earlobes or the designs on his hands. He’s currently in the high priest group leadership but was the 1st councilor in the bishopric not too long ago.
I don’t have any but my wife has two, and she’s pretty open about them if/when she’s asked about them.
Comment by Hyrum — March 19, 2010 @ 11:49 am
Reese- you should have written my post for me lol! You totally explained what I was trying to say.
Jen- no they aren’t offensive at all. I really like hearing that some parents could see it as a learning opportunity. I realize now I was assuming none of them would know how to explain it to their kids, but that’s obviously really dumb. Darn subconscious!
Hyrum- the EQ president in the family ward I got baptized into was tattoodled, too, you just reminded me. Oddly enough, the singles ward was the place I got the most negative feedback. Nice to know they don’t keep you out of callings!
Comment by pdig — March 19, 2010 @ 12:01 pm
I would love to see someone with tattoos in church - it would show that this religion really can do something for everybody. I hope someone with tattoos would be in my ward when I eventually have children so that I can teach them to accept and love everyone.
Sometimes I think I would like to get a tattoo, but then I remember that the entire process more or less freaks me out (I start to shake, but only if I start to consider getting something done. I can watch other people get tattoos and I’m fine but if someone suggests maybe doing it myself then nope, I’m a goner. I have no idea why. It’s actually kind of weird) and that I would change my mind two weeks after I get it. That’s just me though.
Could you describe your tattoos for us? I love seeing what other people have done
Comment by k5ne (Abbie) — March 19, 2010 @ 12:24 pm
I like what you’re all saying about being a good example that body art doesn’t necessarily preclude righteousness. That’s a good message all around for people to be more comfortable with saints who don’t fit the stereotypical mormon mold.
Not to threadjack, but this is interesting, and I wonder if people feel the same way about piercings. When I was baptized I took out the jewelry from all but the sanctioned earlobe piercing, but i’ve definitely been tempted to put them back because, i’ll admit, they were really cool. I wonder if that would be seen as less acceptable than bearing a tattoo, because a tattoo is there for good (minus the painful removal possibility) whereas it takes effort to put jewelry in extra piercings every day.
Comment by LDesque — March 19, 2010 @ 12:26 pm
Here’s my take on tats. Not for me.
However, unless they are showing nekkid people, who really cares? Do people at church *really* give negative consideration to people with tattoos? Seriously, I’m shocked that this is even a question.
I say wear what you enjoy wearing, and if that means people see that you have a tattoo, big deal. If they have a problem with it, then you can explain why got them at the time you got them, and then say either, “I wouldn’t do it now” OR “i don’t regret the decision at all”, as appropriate for you.
Personally, the idea of voluntarily getting people to stick me with a needle when it isn’t medically necessary seems pretty dumb, but that’s 99% my own intense dislike for needles coming through.
Comment by Benjamin Orchard — March 19, 2010 @ 12:28 pm
#6 - I’ve been thinking about getting a second piercing, so I’m interested to see what people think about that, too.
I think it would probably depend on what is pierced, just as it depends on what the tattoo is when deciding if it should be covered or not.
Comment by k5ne — March 19, 2010 @ 12:32 pm
lol, Reese–my one and only tattoo is on my wrist and I figured it would forever keep me out of a YW calling. No such luck.
Comment by ESO — March 19, 2010 @ 12:38 pm
Abbie-some of mine are really stupid. If you find me in the fmh group on facebook I can post pics on my page.
LDesque-I don’t know at all. These are muddy waters. I did have multiple piercings, but I took them all out when I was getting the discussions. My earholes are still huge, but I never wear gauges anymore.
Benyamin-I have only had a few people act weird. Usually women in pantyhose. I don’t mind when people I know ask me why I got them, but I have been grabbed by the arm by strangers at RS functions with a demand for an explanation. Now that I say that, I realize no man has ever said anything (in America, other countries all bets are off). Also, when I was a primary teacher, sometimes kids would ask me questions in a way that seemed very ‘quoting my parents-y’, but I could be wrong.
Comment by pdig — March 19, 2010 @ 12:42 pm
Re: k5ne and pdig
These are some very muddy waters. I’m not all that tempted to put my belly button ring back in (though nobody would ever see it if I did), but I had a few really cool cartilage piercings in my ears. I loved piercings but didn’t want to put holes in my face, so I got the belly button done at 18 and had 3 holes in each ear by the end of my first year of college. Those are the ones I miss the most.
Comment by LDesque — March 19, 2010 @ 12:47 pm
I have two piercings in each ear and I wear earrings in them. No one has really said anything to me personally but a few months ago a women in our ward gave a talk how having more than one piercing in each ear was not following the prophet and how you need to repent if you do. I still wear them.
Comment by Rink — March 19, 2010 @ 1:06 pm
I had a belly piercing and eight piercings in my ears (I grew up in Seattle in the 90’s. I’m lucky that’s all I got) and I took them all out. But for me it was 100% motivation. My tattoo (and future tattoos) I got because it had such intense significance to me. The piercings I just got because I wanted to look worldly. So I took those out as a sacrifice to choose the things of God.
But as I said, it was the motivation behind it. I wouldn’t judge anyone else, and I really really want to get a nose ring just because it’s beautiful.
Comment by Reese Dixon — March 19, 2010 @ 1:14 pm
I suppose it depends on if you think when President spoke of this very thing it is valuable or not. I think it was 2000? In any case, as an obedience thing I know many friends that took out their second piercings and their tongue rings. I was impressed by this comment from him. “I submit it is not adornment. It is making ugly that which was attractive.” My Father had many many many tattoos and it’s funny to look at his green saggy skin.but we love him.
Comment by CZ — March 19, 2010 @ 1:14 pm
If you have them and you like them and they represent an important aspect of who you are- show ‘em. For some people, they are private because they have meaning they don’t wish to share with anyone. My niece has a tattoo of a pink carnation and her mother’s birth and death date (her mother’s favorite flower) where it isn’t generally seen. I agree with Jen- as long as they aren’t naked people or something inappropriate for church like a picture of Satan! I’d beware the teaching moment thing, though. It may not be a touchy-feely-people-are-not-the-sum-of-what-they-wear thing. There will be some who use you as a negative teaching moment because they might not say anything to your face.
Prepare yourself with a reply for those who decide they need to teach you about why your tattoos are bad. Better to be ready for it.
Comment by Kimberly — March 19, 2010 @ 1:17 pm
I have some pretty big tattoos, and, generally, I don’t cover them beyond wearing clothing that would cover garments, anyway. For the most part, people haven’t cared; my church friends mostly think they’re cool, if they think anything. I’ve only ever once had someone make a comment–one of Mr. CJ’s family members told me I should be ashamed of myself, and my father (who is deceased) would be *so* ashamed of me. She also didn’t take it well when I told her, politely, that she’d crossed a boundary.
Ultimately, my only advice is this: be yourself, and do what makes you comfortable. Non-boundary respecting/judgmental people are everywhere, inside of church and out, but nearly everybody responds to confidence. If you’re happy with who you are, other people will be, too.
Comment by CJ — March 19, 2010 @ 1:20 pm
I personally don’t care at all for tattoos. But that is my personal opinion. Many of the people in my Bikram Yoga class have huge ones all over their backs. I would personally be a bit shocked if I saw exposed tattoos in a family LDS ward. (I live in a very geriatric area so it has not been an issue). I don’t think I would be as surprised in a college ward setting.
I guess the determination that I would make if I were in your situation would be whether exposing the tattoos would take away from the spirit of the meeting. If not, then go for it.
Comment by StillConfused — March 19, 2010 @ 1:37 pm
Reese-same here re: piercings
Kimberly- I don’t like them. They look dumb. The problem is I live in arizona and the summer is not a fun time for dressing like I’m Amish. I do like the idea of preparing responses in advance.
CJ- ohh boundaries. Me and my baggage.
StillConfused- what do you mean ’shocked’? Like just suprised or like ‘why are they doing that?’? As far as it taking away from the spirit, I can’t really know OR control what it does to other people short of never showing them, can I? I am a compulsive hand-raiser, and I like to think I add more to class in that way than my tattoos could take away, but not if people are the second kind of shocked…
Comment by pdig — March 19, 2010 @ 1:48 pm
If you were in my ward, I’d really hope that you would show them. I think it’s very healthy for people to see, as quoted from the movie Robin Hood, “wondrous variety.”
It would be an excellent opportunity to teach my kids about not judging by appearances.
As for women who grab you by the arm and demand an explanation, what can I say? I guess I just hope that my kids will have plenty of opportunities to learn better than that, because as Oprah always says, “when you know better you do better.”
Comment by the milk (of the gospel) — March 19, 2010 @ 1:51 pm
If you love the gospel and it shows in your face and actions, then by all means show your tattoos. You’d be doing us a service.
The other night at dinner I asked my kids if they’d lose their testimonies if I got an earring. My oldest daughter, 16, immediately said yes before any of my other children could even process the concept. I expressed surprise, because my oldest usually seems so much more mature than that, and her clarification made it clear it wasn’t her testimony that she’d question but mine. “Really?” I asked, “would I be breaking a commandment?” She hoom’ed and hah’ed, referred to the For the Strength of Youth pamphlet and finished with “but you’re in the bishopric, and the church has an image to uphold”
Ever have those moments when you realize you’ve failed as a parent?
I’m really opposed to defying authority just for the sake of defying authority. I have no desire to get an earring. I’ve never seen a tattoo I’ve found attractive. I’m pretty much Peter Priesthood.
But boy, I can’t help but think that a tat-sporting, gospel-loving, convert YW president would do my girls a world of good.
Comment by Martin — March 19, 2010 @ 1:52 pm
Re #14 CZ
Gah! Those reminders of what the Prophet said always get me
I think in my mind the piercings were somehow individualistic (I know, ironic since so many people have them) and symbolic of an important, transformative time of my life, so I look back on them fondly.
Then again, I remember how ready and willing I was to take them out when I was taking the discussions and started to know the only way it was going was towards baptism. I guess I should be trying to equally look back on that fondly as well.
FWIW, I think some tattoos can be beautiful, both artistically and in meaning. Clearly, some are inappropriate to be left uncovered in a church setting, and others are just plain ugly. Have you guys seen all the pics on the various blog of people whose tattoos are misspelled? Oops!
I’m sure I would’ve gotten a tattoo at some point if I ever figured out something that I knew I’d feel that strongly about for my whole life. Feels like it would be a big gamble to me!
Comment by LDesque — March 19, 2010 @ 1:53 pm
i have mixed feelings about this issue. One man’s art is another man’s pornography for one.
The other thing is that I am trying to understand why people want to mark there body in such a way. I’m not trying to be judgmental, I’m trying to understand. IMO I’ve herd many people say that they get tats’ because they are art and it makes them feel unique. Too which my response has always been that as individuals we are all unique and we don’t need to have artwork displayed on ourselves to prove it.
So, I guess the only problem that I would have to be why cover up something that you had previously put on your body because you thought it was beautiful and if you now thought that it wasn’t shouldn’t you have it permantly removed so you don’t have to worry about it all the time?
I asked question if you cover it up for one activity and then let it hang out at another activity isn’t it kind of like lying? I’m confused.
Comment by Diane — March 19, 2010 @ 1:54 pm
You should show them
I had the same thought when I dyed my hair blue, should I cover it in church? I ended up not doing so because I believe there exists a lot of stereotypes in the Church about such things and I wanted to show everyone that you can be thoughtful, intelligent, faithful AND look “alternative.” I really think you’ll open some minds and hopefully start some good conversations.
Comment by Ayla Serenemoon — March 19, 2010 @ 1:55 pm
#22
I don’t think it would be “lying” to cover it up sometimes and reveal it at others. Clearly other considerations come into play, and I know I’d want to wear short sleeves to some activities and 3/4 sleeves to others. I could see someone reasonably concluding that for church meetings they’d cover them but not for other activities. Or they could choose their outfits without considering whether or not the tattoo showed at all, seeing as the choice to get the tattoo is said and done, and I think to insist that they base all clothing decisions on this one past decision is a bit much.
The interesting thing about tattoos, as far as the sin factor goes, is that most sins don’t stay etched on your skin forever. And thank goodness for that.
I’d much rather show that people can be different and have different ideas about how to best live the gospel and still be righteous than show that people must cover their differences in order to fit the mold as not to offend anyone. We can either insist that other people stay in line and don’t offend us, or we can work at being less offend-able.
Comment by LDesque — March 19, 2010 @ 2:07 pm
I think there is a difference between having your tattoos being visible and drawing attention to them. If you choose to wear something because it “shows off” a tattoo (which I highly doubt that is the case) then I would say it may not be appropriate for church. If you wear a modest outfit that happens to make a tattoo visible, that is fine.
Comment by Sonja — March 19, 2010 @ 2:24 pm
“Why would anybody want a tattoo?” is a pointless question relating to the original post. Why would anyone eat brussels sprouts by choice? How on earth can someone dislike chocolate? Different people like different things.
As far as covering up for one activity and displaying at another - that’s just bizarre. I wear different clothes for different activities all the time. Sacrament meeting is not like gardening which is not like having sex.
I’m a big fan of being comfortable. If it’s a hot day, dress comfortably and suitably. You shouldn’t have to cover up your tattoos because it might make others comfortable.
Comment by Ann — March 19, 2010 @ 2:24 pm
I don’t have any tattoos or piercings other than in my earlobes, but the main reason for that is that I had a cartilage piercing done about 15 years ago, and after a few weeks I had a horrible reaction to it and had to take out. I don’t want to risk ever having that happen again, and I have so many allergies and sensitivities that the idea of sticking ink in my skin and having a reaction to it terrifies me. But I think if I did have tattoos, I wouldn’t go out of my way to hide them.
I’ve had at least 3 bishops/branch presidents who were tattooed (mostly millitary-related). They were obviously covered up when they wore suits on Sunday, but they didn’t make any kind of effort to hide them when they wore casual clothes to non-Sunday church activities. And now that I’ve thought about, I think there have been at least a handful of tattooed people in every ward or branch of been in. They had callings, and no one ever said anything. And they never felt like they had to hide their tattoos.
So I think it’s up to you whether you show them or not. If you’re comfortable showing them, then don’t worry about whether it will make other people uncomfortable. If someone finds your tattoos offensive, there’s probably a good chance that they were looking for something to be offended by and they would have just found something else if you had covered them up.
Comment by Kathleen — March 19, 2010 @ 2:24 pm
Shouldn’t type when I am in a hurry.
“As far as covering up for one activity and displaying at another being like lying - that’s just bizarre.”
“You shouldn’t have to cover up your tattoos because it might make others uncomfortable.”
Oy.
Comment by Ann — March 19, 2010 @ 2:27 pm
What I think is kinds interesting is that our church is so focused on tattoos and piercings, yet so many LDS women have plastic surgery and boob jobs! And our leaders don’t talk much about that. My non-mormon sister once asked, um, what’s the difference? They are both altering your body. I didn’t have an answer.
Comment by Emmie — March 19, 2010 @ 2:29 pm
My husband has many tattoos that are covered when he wears a suit to church, but show when he wears short pants and t-shirts in the rest of his life. We’ve found that it has opened many doors to being able to talk to less active members, which has been a blessing to us and to them. As was stated before, some people who are not in the church mainstream feel a little more comfortable when they see my husband may not be totally mainstream.
Comment by NRM — March 19, 2010 @ 2:30 pm
if you were in my ward, I would hope that you would dress comfortably and to please yourself, and I would hope that included some tattoo exposure especially in an AZ summer!!!
I cringed for future tattooed converts (etc.) when Pres. Hinkley said no tattoos. So, I had you in my thoughts a long time ago.
Welcome to the fold.
Comment by venus — March 19, 2010 @ 2:30 pm
I’d be lying if I said I didn’t think tattoos, done tastefully, are wicked beautiful! I’m often jealous of tattooed converts who don’t have to worry about people assuming they’ve gone off the deep end. I mean, a lot of people have stupid tattoos. (Why on Earth would you want a permenant picture of Tweety Bird on you!?) But some tattoos just leave me in awe. So pretty.
I must agree with Benjamin, though, that I’d probably never get one myself just because I’m deathly afraid of needles. (I’m seven years overdue for a tetanus shot.) But if I ever got the courage and wsn’t afraid of people judging me, man…
As far as piercings are concerned, I have no problem with them. I wish the church didn’t have a problem with them. As ingle eyebrow piercing is just so…sexy!
For those of you that have tattoos in the Church, don’t be ashamed of them. If it were me, I’d consider myself very lucky to have gotten one before it was too late.
Comment by AllieKay — March 19, 2010 @ 2:34 pm
I see lots of tattoos at work that I might not otherwise see (I’m a physician and those things happen). I have seen some really cool ones, and I always ask about them. Every single tattoo I have asked about has a story behind it that is generally quite significant to the person. It may be to remember a lost sibling or friend. It may be is celebration of overcoming a personal struggle. It may be more whimsical. But there is always a cool story and I think they’re great (although I don’t have one myself).
I think the prophet’s talk that sparked all this was more generational than anything else. To an older generation, tattoos and earrings are bad. To the younger generation, they are expressions of personality.
Comment by Mike S — March 19, 2010 @ 2:36 pm
Emmie-
I get that. Lots of ladies in the ward I grew up in had “permenant makeup” on their lips or brows, and it’s exactly the same as a tattoo! It’s almost the same procedure. But nobody takes issue with that because it’s not “fringe”. It doesn’t stand out.
It’s almost like it’s not aboout being natural. It’s about looking like everyone else.
Comment by AllieKay — March 19, 2010 @ 2:37 pm
Jesus said that it is not what is on the outside of a person that makes them unrighteous (or righteous), but what proceeds from their heart. Tattoos aren’t a mark of unrighteousness unless they make a statement of belief. If you have a tattoo that says, “God is dead” or some similar sentiment, then I can see where a change in belief should probably provoke a removal of the tattoo, or covering it up at the very least. But a tattoo which has nothing to do with blasphemy or any negative issue should have no reflection whatsoever on your personal righteousness, and should be no one’s business but your own, IMO.
Comment by Lorian — March 19, 2010 @ 2:40 pm
On a somewhat-related note, for anyone who wants to get judge-y, a while back I decided that I believe getting a tan is worse than getting a tattoo when it comes to treating your body as a temple. Altering your body for the sake of vanity while exposing yourself to the risk of cancer over and over again, and all for an effect you’ll just have to get back next year after it fades seems reckless. And I was surprised to see more overdone tans in Utah than I’ve ever seen in California. Something to think about, and just my not-so-humble-but-maybe-should-be-more-humble opinion.
Comment by LDesque — March 19, 2010 @ 2:44 pm
This is an interesting topic to me since I just got my first tattoo in November. It’s a highly symbolic tat to me and I took years to consider what I wanted done and where and how. As I’ve shown friends of mine and some family members, it’s been interesting at the variety of reactions I’ve gotten. Outside of the church, everyone loves it. It’s different enough even for a tattoo that I’m pretty sure no one will have one just like it, and they can see the significance of what it means in my life.
Inside the church, I’ve been a little extra surprised. My niece thinks it’s really cool but everyone else has either just gaped at it or made uncomfortable comments (and I don’t go around showing it to everyone - just friends). My husband was even asked by someone I’d considered a mutual friend (also a man) if I was ok since I was doing something so clearly concerning as getting a tattoo. He laughed it off, bless him, and said “go ask Chris if you want to know.”
It’s funny to me because the people I’ve seen sporting tattoos in church have often been people I’ve wanted to get to know. Some of them have been the kindest, funniest, most down to earth people I’ve met. Of course, you don’t have to have a tattoo to have those attributes, and I’m sure some people with tattoos are jerks, but it’s been a funny correlation in my experience.
As far as showing it/not showing it, my tattoo is on my calf so I can hide it fairly easily if I choose to, or show it if I choose to. I have skirts that do both. I don’t sit and think to myself “do I want to give the Establishment the finger today?” when I choose which to wear. I wear what I’m comfortable in that day. I try to give my in-laws some slack and wear my longer skirt around them but I don’t care if they see my tattoo.
I figure that I got my tattoo for me first and foremost. Not for anyone else. And so it’s a personal thing that if I want to see it that day, I do. If I feel more comfortable not showing it, I don’t. And if anyone else has a problem seeing or not seeing it, they can deal.
Comment by Chris — March 19, 2010 @ 2:49 pm
I’m also with Emmie and AllieKay on the plastic surgery and permanent makeup. Is the counsel supposed to lead us to believe that not all body modification is equally problematic?
Comment by LDesque — March 19, 2010 @ 2:50 pm
36 - I’m 100% with you on the idea of a tan being much worse than a tattoo!
Comment by Kathleen — March 19, 2010 @ 2:58 pm
29- It’s funny to me that people don’t think boob jobs are the same as tattoos. I agree- you’re altering your body.
I always grew up thinking that our bodies were beautiful and we shouldn’t do things to alter them. Which makes me wonder why one piercing is acceptable. Altering is altering isn’t it?
I had three piercings in each ear lobe and one cartilage piercing, that I always wore a hoop in- I never changed it. I also briefly had my belly button pierced. I loved it, but took it out a few months after my dad reminded about the daughters of zion with their jewelry etc… I felt guilty.
I took all but one earring in each ear out after president hinkley said we should only have one. To me, it just wasn’t a big deal. I wasn’t trying to make a statement with them, so I took them out. I was a little sad about it, because they did make me feel… spunky, and I liked that.
I actually don’t wear earrings at all anymore because my kids pull on them. My scar from my belly button ring is not pretty now that I’ve been pregnant several times….
I also have an eyebrow tattooed on, but it’s done by hand, not the machine tattoo needles, so I think it wasn’t as painful (it still hurt). I got that because of scarring that prevented a normal eyebrow from growing and I get tired of explaining to people what happened to me. It’s nice to look “normal”.
I wouldn’t have any problem with someone at church with a visible tattoo. I might assume that they were a convert.
My sister has several large tattoos that can’t be covered (she’s not a member anymore though). One of the biggest tattoos she got to cover up an earlier tattoo that she grew out of.
That’s my biggest issue with tattoos is how do you know that something you think is beautiful now will still be beautiful 20 years from now.
Comment by Alliegator — March 19, 2010 @ 3:03 pm
Hey you guys, thanks a lot. That all helps a lot. I’m still not sure what I’m gonna do, but I like having other peoples opinions in my head.
Diane- I got them because my best friend died. It wasn’t about art or looking beautiful, it was because I had no idea where to turn for comfort. I felt like it might make me feel better, and they did. The pain of a tattoo really helps dull the pain of mourning. Now, I have the gospel and I would be able to handle it totally different, but I didn’t then. I don’t want to show them to be cool or anything like that. I have kept them covered at church because
1. At my singles ward there were some perverted tattoo-chasers
2. After I got married I was a primary teacher
I would show them at RS meetings because it was all adults. I felt scared to show them swimming until I saw the EQ pres had them. I don’t love showing them, but they are not going anywhere. It would take years to get most of them off, and I have some colors that they can’t remove yet. Are you trying to say I should either show them all the time or not go to ward pool parties? I am confused too… My title about it being part of your authentic self is kind of that same question about it being ‘lying’, but I feel like you are asking it in a mean way, when I meant it like ‘am I more of a benefit to others when I don’t try to hide my mistakes?’. Keep in mind they are not a SIN. Even if not following the prophets counsel is, I was not a member and thus wasn’t obligated to it.
Comment by pdig — March 19, 2010 @ 3:09 pm
Like so many things, the more we treat something with apprehension and fear, the more people react that way. I think it’s really cool that you’re considering people around you at church when your tattoos show - but like others have said, I don’t think it’s a big deal. It’s so easy to become accustomed to only seeing one ‘kind’ of person at church - I for one love seeing tattoos at church because we’re all different and have made different choices - why should we have to hide?
FWIW, a guy converted to my singles ward last year and has enormous flame tattoos up and down his neck - I silently cheer when he passes the sacrament.
Comment by Martine — March 19, 2010 @ 3:38 pm
I don’t think showing a tattoo is part of being your authentic self. BUT it is such a minor thing really. I don’t see getting a tattoo as a great decision, but it’s generally a decision made in the past that is minor but permanent. How many poor decisions have I made in the past that are permanent but not visable?
I’d be fine with it in a primary class even. I’m more concerned about what the teacher teachers and if she/he loves my children. I don’t see it as something to cheer.
Comment by britt-the pregnant — March 19, 2010 @ 3:54 pm
I don’t think I have ever been as surprised in a meeting as when Pres. Hinkley talked about tattoos and extra piercings. I think my mouth dropped open. My daughter had just gotten a second set, and I waited to see what she would do. It was hard for her, but she took them out. Others found it easy. Others chose to leave them in. I respected my daughter, because I know she really wanted them, but she chose obedience, even if she didn’t understand WHY.
We have had a couple of women in our ward with VERY obvious, large tattoos, on neck and face. We welcomed them for sure. Parents have to teach all kinds of things to their children as children ask about other families and individuals.
I would probably pray about it. You will know yourself what you feel best about. I respect that you have cared about others reaction, cared about the children you teach and their parents. I sense you really just don’t want to be a stumbling block to anyone. That is really wonderful of you. I personally would not have a problem with your tattoo unless you were flaunting it and trying to get others to get one, because you are SO COOL. You aren’t saying, hey Look what I got away with by being a convert! You aren’t gloating!
I wouldn’t expect you to wear long sleeves in hot weather to hide it. God knows your heart. I think I can hear your heart, and it sounds great to me, too.
I have noted through the decade that President Hinkley saw this trend and where it was going. I , personally, had no clue it would become so popular and more mainstream to tattoo huge sections of body parts. My nephew has huge ones on both of his thighs. He is a bouncer in a bar. Looking back I am really thankful for the prophet in speaking out about something so specific, but at the time..I was gobsmacked.
Comment by Melissa P. — March 19, 2010 @ 4:11 pm
has anyone linked Kathy Soper’s essay about her tattoo? I thought it was beautiful when I read it a few years ago.
Comment by Kerry — March 19, 2010 @ 4:24 pm
Hey Melissa, thanks. That sounds right, that I dont want to be a stumbling block. I also dont want to feel like I missed out on a chance to help someone change for the better just by making myself a little uncomfortable. That would be totally worth it, to me. I have prayed about it but I kept getting the impression that I needed to have thought it through more, first. I want to know that, if I show them, I am doing it for the right reasons - selfless reasons, as much as that is possible. This thread had given me a good head start in figuring it out!
You guys are all so smart, I love it here!
Comment by pdig — March 19, 2010 @ 4:26 pm
As far as exposing the tattoo to children, I personally think it’s healthy. It’s really easy to inadvertently raise a child who thinks outside = inside. Some of the kids I’ve worked with have honestly believed that you can identify a righteous person by how they dressed, etc. Not only is that wrong, it can lead to some harmful mistakes down the line; a girl I mentored on and off for years was convinced that she could instantaneously identify a “good” man by his hair, clothes, and general physique. Her attitude led to a lot of heartache.
If our bodies are our Temples, then shouldn’t we be the ones to decide how they’re treated? It’s been my experience that we spend way too much time policing ourselves on issues that really don’t matter.
Comment by CJ — March 19, 2010 @ 4:35 pm
Also someone did speak about plastic surgery, in a talk. I was surprised to hear that talk because where I live , I don’t know anyone who has had any other than a breast reduction for health reasons.
( Alliegator-I don’t think getting a tattoo eyebrow because yours is missing is a problem. at all. ) Although I admit, I just recently even heard about that being available.
I do wish people would see their TRUE beauty. I wish the world was not so persuasive, especially to make women doubt and critique themselves too much, and so negatively. Amazingly beautiful people make negative comments about their small ( perceived by them) imperfections. It borders on self -absorption, sometimes, and sometimes feels like they are not grateful for the amazing body God gave them.
Comment by Melissa P. — March 19, 2010 @ 4:36 pm
(I only read about half of the comments, sorry if I’m a repeat. I have laundry to fold. :P)
You should be comfortable in your own skin. If other people have a problem with your skin (and you are confident or brave enough to handle it) then you should have a practiced reply as to how hurtful and damaging their words could be. Would they prefer you to not attend church? Do they think you’re not worthy to attend? What about the folks that the missionaries bring in, are these same “holy attackers” going to shame the investigators out the door?
There was a member of my ward who spoke often about his sobriety and life changes. He looked like a regular clean-cut guy in his nice suit, until you got up close and could see the holes in his face from prior piercings. Watching his return to church and transformation was really spectacular. He shared his story a lot, and it helped me to appreciate even more what a beautiful thing it was for him to receive the priesthood, attend the temple and then marry a lovely woman in the temple this past fall. I believe that he was an influence for good through sharing his experiences. (I’ve also heard that he has tatoos, but I usually only saw him on Sunday. I know he used to sport a wicked tall mohawk.)
Be yourself, pdig. You know why you’re there.
Comment by ErinAnn — March 19, 2010 @ 4:48 pm
Even if not following the prophets counsel is, I was not a member and thus wasn’t obligated to it.
To me this would be one of the best teaching responses for your YW if you are ever asked or if you do decide to show them or explain them. I think it’s critical for all to understand that people come from different places in their lives (whether member or non-member)…to not judge outright for something about which they know so little (the ‘whys’ in that person’s life).
I loved, too, how you said that you would deal with your grief and pain differently. That in and of itself could be a powerful opportunity to teach, too. Our youth need to hear, and hear from different people, that there are healthy ways to deal with pain and then there are not.
But I would not be a happy parent if a leader got one while a leader and tried to somehow make it sound as though it didn’t matter. If someone wants to make that choice, it’s up to them, but if someone goes so far as to dismiss prophetic counsel to justify that choice — esp to youth — then I think they have gone too far.
But that doesn’t sound at all like where you are. Pray about it and see if the Lord wants you or opens up a chance for you to teach about what your conversion has done to help you learn how to deal with pain, that what you see on the outside won’t necessarily reflect what’s in someone’s heart, etc.
Comment by m&m — March 19, 2010 @ 4:49 pm
I’m not a big tattoo fan, but that’s just me. Really, I would be ashamed of myself if I let a tattoo determine for me whether or not that person was “good” or “bad.”
I agree with those who have commented that a tattoo that is violent or sexual probably should be covered up for church, but something else (like a butterfly or a Celtic design) ought to present a teaching moment for people. (Don’t judge a book by its cover.)
Here’s a slight tangent that might apply.
About 10 years ago I was doing some community theatre with a young LDS man who had chosen not to serve a mission. The reason for his choice was not obvious (such as poor health or a criminal record), and he had grown sick and tired of having girls ask him where he’d served, only to have to face their scorn when he told them he hadn’t. So he pierced one ear. He said it worked like a charm; whenever he wore it, no one asked him the question (stereotyping, I’m sure, but it was a relief for him), and only the girls who didn’t care about such things approached him. If, for some reason, he didn’t want to make a public statement, he removed the earring.
Perhaps “coverable” tattoos might work like this fellow’s earring: cover them up when they might be distracting or negative and display them without guilt when they would be positive (in the opinion of the tattooed person, not of the viewers).
Comment by A Paperback Writer — March 19, 2010 @ 4:50 pm
Oh, and I would love to see you speak in church sometime about the Atonement — or related topic, (because they all should, right?
) — and wear short sleeves and a knee-length skirt. No stockings. 
Comment by ErinAnn — March 19, 2010 @ 4:53 pm
Eris mentioned on her blog the scar from her navel piercing:
http://defendingeris.blogspot.com/2009/06/little-mr-is-disgusted-but-little-ms-is.html
I added my $.02 there:”To me, if it doesn’t normally see daylight, it’s not worth piercing.”
And, where’s G in this discussion?
A few months back, I brought up in Gospel Doctrine how some LDS members proudly proclaim they have no tattoos, or they don’t drink coffee, but could gossip up a storm. The comment actually went over well. Previous blogs here made me bring that up.
Comment by Mike H. — March 19, 2010 @ 4:54 pm
Would the same discussion ensue if the topic weren’t tattoos, but the wearing of very expensive flashy jewelry to church?
Just wondering because in our current ward, it is acceptable for some to wear lots of jewelry. We have a variety of socioeconomic levels in our ward. There are some who have very little and do not have the means to afford the bling. Others do. I noted that the new policy on what to wear to our temple is about wearing clean nice sunday dress, but not to wear flashy…
What do you think?
Comment by Yet another J — March 19, 2010 @ 4:55 pm
Oh, and as a school teacher, I try to stress that waiting to get a permanent tattoo is probably a good idea for a kid, since often one’s likes and dislikes are not the same at 13 as they are at 33. (I adored Shawn Cassidy at 13. I certainly wouldn’t want his name tattooed on me now…..)
I tell kids who are really into tattoo-talk to ask their parents if they could experiment with henna or some other non-permanent form of tattooing so they can see whether or not they get sick of something in a few weeks.
Comment by A Paperback Writer — March 19, 2010 @ 4:55 pm
Re: jewelry, “expensive” is in the eye of the beholder. Bother Sister and I have hand-me-down engagement rings, which were reset by our respective better halves. My ring is fairly ostentatious, but it’s also a family heirloom and one that, having been my great-grandmother’s has a lot of special meaning to me. Likewise, most of my jewelry, old or new, has special meaning to me. If someone were to tell me I couldn’t wear it, because it was, by their standards, “flashy”, I’d have a huge problem with that.
Comment by CJ — March 19, 2010 @ 5:09 pm
That was supposed to say “both Sister and I”.
Comment by CJ — March 19, 2010 @ 5:10 pm
@41
I’m sorry If I came off sounding judgmental, I was not trying to be. I was trying to understand what it is, as well as why it is that tattoo’s hold such an attraction for some people. Your response makes perfect sense to me, It was a way for you to honor your friend and I can accept and respect your choice.
I guess in a way yes, I was saying that you should show them off because to do other wise you be lying to yourself about why they are so important to you. No one should have to lie about themselves to make them more presentable in anyone else life for church or secular enviornment
Comment by Diane — March 19, 2010 @ 5:14 pm
Yet another j- I can’t take them off like jewelry. In a hot Arizona summer, I stand out when I am the only person in an ankle skirt and long sleeves, or black tights and a jacket. I think I get the comparison if we were talking about getting a new tattoo, but mine are old and lame and nothing like any jewelry someone would wear on purpose.
Mike H - good point about the gossip! Lol
erinann, m&m, and paperback- I think I am going to combine your posts and show them when the talk or lesson affords me an opportunity to explain how I feel about it all, and how I’ve changed. That sounds like a good way to do it.
Comment by pdig — March 19, 2010 @ 5:16 pm
Diane- thanks a lot for explaining. I did misunderstand your initial post. Good points. I certainly don’t like the feeling that I’m pretending, or playing a role. I want to make my YW feel like who they are is what they do and not what they look like, and teaching by example is usually pretty effective. It will just be very important to me that they know that having them is not the same as thinking they are cool, fun, or a good idea.
Comment by pdig — March 19, 2010 @ 5:24 pm
I have a tattoo on my inner ankle, which actually makes it easier to cover up everywhere BUT church in the colder months
(I only wear nylons when I absolutely have to) But I’ve never felt bad about letting it show. In the years since I got it (college) I have had to decide if I like the fact that it shows because of pride, vanity, or just wanting to let people know that there is more to me than meets the eye. Intentional alterations to self seem to be the only way to communicate that to people without being too forward. I’m uncomfortable having people think they understand me just by looking at me, and I guess a tattoo was a simple way for me to express something without extremes in fashion or hair.
So I think the question of “to show or not to show” maybe boils down to your intentions. I haven’t always had the right reasons, but, like I said, short of a band-aid or really dark tights, there was no way for me to hide it at church that wasn’t extra effort. So I’ve gone through changes in how I view my tattoo and the reason I got it in the first place. But I’m happy with it - and I’ve had mostly positive experiences come from people noticing it.
Comment by corktree — March 19, 2010 @ 5:35 pm
I think we could all sit and talk about how getting a tattoo is just as bad as this or that but that’s not what the prophet spoke of. I agree boob jobs and makeup tattoos same thing. But How to use a new tattoo as a learning tool and a old Tattoo seem very different to me. I smoked for a bit and use it as a learning tool. Not that they are the same at all, but I am just trying to figure out how doing something kids are told not to do from the pr. Hinkley will help them learn. It’s not to be rude.
Comment by Cz — March 19, 2010 @ 6:15 pm
pdig
I personally think that your tatoos are not a big deal. I mean, wether it’s stretching earlobes, putting henna on your hands, breat implants or whatever, the evolutionary biological drive within drives us to continually (but subconsciously) find ways to stick out to the opposite sex. Even though it may not seem like the primary driver, I believe these simple primal influences are responsible for most of the choices we make.
I think that those who are opposed to your tatoos are exhibiting a (subconscious) evolutionary response by trying to diminish your attractiveness by acting jealous and creating social norms that elevate their attractiveness to the group by bashing tatoos.
Overall, the tatoo issue for me is a competition of sexual dominance between those who stand out to the opposite sex with tatoos and those who are jealous of that (who don’t have tatoos) and try to increase their sexual currency by diminishing yours.
A really hilarous example of sexual competition occured in our ward a few years ago. A really attractive (but stupid) married women got breast implants. People “found out” and I’m sure she got lots of (innocent) attention from men. One of her fiercist critics was another relatively attractive (more stupid) married woman who tired to muster up some doctrinal argument against implants. However, try as she might, the woman with implants still got attention. And then the subconscious sexual competition kicked in. The relatively attractive woman couldn’t cope and finally went out and got implants herself. I’m sure you see the point.
So, I bet your tatoos are really attractive. Ensure you show them off liberally so that you may recoup the financial investment you made to enhance your sexual currency (even though I get the impression that you want to do it in a harmless way-like wearing a really nice skirt).
I do have a related question through. Can anyone tell me why so many women in the porn industry have lumbar tatoos (disrespectfully known as “tramp stamps”)? Has anyone studied this correlation?
Comment by TRPC — March 19, 2010 @ 6:25 pm
Also I hear people say that they get items of intense significance tatooed on their body. I understand this to a point, but if most of the time you cannot see the tatoo/the tatoo is located on an area of your body you can’t see, I doesn’t fully make sense to me. My personality is to keep items of significance to myself. So when I see tatoos I immediately think of ev. bio. perspective re:attracting attention.
This is coming from someone who does think some tatoos are attractive.
Comment by TRPC — March 19, 2010 @ 6:42 pm
I can get it. When someone has something terribly traumatic happen, they might get a tattoo hoping it might make them feel a little better (getting it, and then knowing it’s there) but that doesn’t necessarily mean they would want to HAVE to look at it, if it drudges up pain. Maybe.
Comment by pdig — March 19, 2010 @ 6:50 pm
And after 3 minutes of searching, here is some quasi-scientific disucssion to back up my argument. There is plenty more out there (I failed to realize the effect that tatoos have on identifiying health, which is also interesting)
http://anthropologyworks.com/?p=812
Comment by TRPC — March 19, 2010 @ 6:55 pm
#7 Benjamin Orchard re: “Do people at church *really* give negative consideration to people with tattoos? Seriously, I’m shocked that this is even a question.”
Unfortunately, yes, I think they do. I was in a YW presidency once and we were discussing who to call to be one of the advisers. A woman in the ward who had a tattoo on her ankle was crossed off the list of people to consider. What a waste.
Comment by hkobeal — March 19, 2010 @ 8:32 pm
pdig, I had a friend who got a small tattoo when her friend died (they were both in college at the time). She wanted it small and private-just like a little piece of her friend to carry around with her. She does regret it, but she didn’t get it to show off-it was just to make something about her friend permanent. Like you she wished she had dealt with the whole thing better…don’t we all wish we had today’s wisdom years ago?
not sure I’m explaining that well…
Comment by britt-the pregnant — March 19, 2010 @ 8:35 pm
No Britt, that’s great. It is tempting to hope a ‘quick fix’ like a tattoo will help… Like the big apology scene at the end of romantic comedies. But learning to navigate life is harder, more complicated, and much more fulfilling.
Comment by pdig — March 19, 2010 @ 8:43 pm
hkobeal - Was it actually stated that the reason she was crossed off the list was because of her tattoo? I find that interesting. Maybe that’s why I’ve never been called to YW?
Comment by corktree — March 19, 2010 @ 10:27 pm
if that was the lone reason for crossing her off the list without any prayer involved… what a sad state that ward/branch was in… just saying.
Comment by April — March 19, 2010 @ 10:34 pm
I was YW Pres in a ward where women with tattoos were automatically disqualified from YW service. In my current ward, they ask that the YW leaders cover them. (Most all the YW leaders have tattoos, I think)
Comment by Stephanie — March 19, 2010 @ 10:37 pm
#70–yes. The other two women in the presidency didn’t want to suggest her name because of the tattoo. They thought it would set a bad example.
Granted, that’s a sample size of one . . .
Comment by hkobeal — March 19, 2010 @ 10:45 pm
hkobeal — You can put me down as a quasi-example. My first day at BYU we had these silly freshman group things — like EFY games, kind of. I had a really well done temporary tatoo above my ankle. I got a lot of side-ways glances sitting there in my sandles and shorts (until I had my question answered as to whether or not we had to be there). “People” have problems with tatoos. Funny. It’s not like I had on an undershirt tight enough to show the outline of my bra. *ahem* (utah’sfakemodestyshirts.)
Comment by ErinAnn — March 19, 2010 @ 10:51 pm
I had a YM leader who had a tattoo on his forearm. He always rolled up his dress shirt sleeves.
Comment by Kim Siever — March 19, 2010 @ 10:57 pm
We have had a good number of younger women in our ward with tattoos over the years — I can think of three currently; two who are Primary teachers and one who is a Sunday School teacher. I remember one who has since moved; she and her husband got sealed in the temple while they were in our ward. As Primary President, I can say that it never entered my mind to disqualify someone as a potential Primary worker because of a tattoo. As for myself, I am not the least bit interested in getting a tattoo, but that is a generational thing, for sure. My kids, who are both in their 20’s, really like them, but haven’t gotten any (yet). One of our tattooed Primary workers teaches the Valiant 10/11 girls; she is wonderful. After reading Reese’s comment and some others on this thread I see how this can be a positive thing for kids, whether it helps to bridge the gap to a child that may feel that they don’t “fit the mold,” or to simply to show all children, by example, that outward appearance doesn’t necessarily correlate to inner goodness.
Comment by Valory — March 19, 2010 @ 11:23 pm
#23, Ayla Serenemoon, I haven’t seen your posts on here for quite some time — or have I just missed them? It’s nice to hear from you again
Comment by Valory — March 19, 2010 @ 11:31 pm
This post has got me really excited for some reason.
It isn’t true in all cases but in my experience there appears to be a correlation with getting the majority of your tatoos when you are young and single. Thinking about it that way, I really do think people are using it as an attention seeking mechanism more than anything else with an unconscious focus on the opposite sex. I mean, is this a coincidental correlation with our peak fecundity? I seriously doubt it.
Most of us are willing to do what ever it takes to form relationships and subsequently families. If a tatoo aided you in the process, good on ya.
Comment by TRPC — March 20, 2010 @ 12:18 am
That totally reminds me. A couple of wards ago, one of our daughter’s nursery teachers was a guy who had gotten all of his tattoos in federal prison. He was one of the most sincerely repentant people I have ever met and no one felt uncomfortable with him being their kid’s teacher because you could feel the spirit testify of the healing and changing powers of the Atonement when you were around him.
Comment by jen — March 20, 2010 @ 12:37 am
maybe you just need to forgive and accept yourself for the tattoos?
Comment by venus — March 20, 2010 @ 3:46 am
I read this first, and I admit, I thought, “Oooh, blind obedience to a religion = bad.” That was just my initial gut reaction (I’m not LDS — I’m Catholic, and not particularly devout — always questioning).
And this made me think about tattoos, and why I don’t have one.
You know what? I have always liked them — a lot. Some of them are just so beautiful. I have always wanted an elaborate one, a pretty one, a unique and beautiful marking that I could look at on my body, and enjoy, the way I enjoy looking at other lovely things. Superficial, perhaps, but not negative in any way, in my opinion.
What has stopped me from getting one, over the past few decades?
My husband hates them. He just really dislikes them. it could be because they are associated with organized crime, in his culture — I don’t know.
He has never explicitly forbidden me to get one, but whenever I have mentioned how much I like them, he frowns. I don’t want to do anything to my body that he will find distasteful, particularly something so superficial that I can certainly live without.
“Obediance” isn’t quite the right word for me, but I have chosen something similar — “compliance” to someone else’s wishes, even though they are wishes I don’t fully understand. I am in exactly the same boat.
So if you see a middle-age woman starting at your tattoos, it might not be in disapproval — it might be in wistful envy.
Comment by L. — March 20, 2010 @ 7:06 am
Oh, and my left ear is double-pierced, and I always wear a small stud earring in it, to match whatever pair of earrings I am wearing.
I did the third piercing myself in high school, when I was 17, right after my first boyfriend broke up with me. I felt like doing something dramatic (though not painful or too dangerous — I numbed my ear lobe with ice first, and used plenty of rubbing alcohol). So I fully understand why people want to alter their bodies to observe painful milestones, since I guess that’s exactly what I did.
Comment by L. — March 20, 2010 @ 7:14 am
LOL–I know! When I am giving side-long glances at someone with tattoos, it’s because I’m totally jealous, especially of the big ones. My hesitation is purely low tolerance for pain and I’m trying to figure out how much it hurt and whether I could handle the pain for something that was so pretty. And since I’m still trying to figure out what I want to get, I’m always looking around for ideas. If I get caught staring, I usually try to express that so the person doesn’t think I’m being a poop.
Comment by jen — March 20, 2010 @ 10:10 am
Ok, just throwing this out there, but does it still seem like a lot of people equate a tattoo with something that needs to be repented of? I mean, even suggesting that someone with a tattoo would be a great example of a person to speak on the Atonement makes me question whether people either see tattoos as a sin themselves or as evidence of accompanying sins from one’s past.
Does anyone else see this? Would a tattoo be considered a sin simply because of what Pres. Hinckley said? I don’t think it is when you consider the cultural differences surrounding tattoo practices of different countries. Poor youthful judgment? Maybe. (but doesn’t everyone have those in their past?) A slightly more permanent expression of self? Yes. Sin? I say no.
Comment by corktree — March 20, 2010 @ 10:11 am
I am a convert to the LDS church. Although I do not have tatoos for other reasons, I did have 2 children out of wedlock, (i later married and divorced thier father) and I smoked and I occasionally took part in alcohol at dinner partys etc. I make no excuses and denials of my life before the church. I met dated and married my mormon husband with a strong emphatic thought I would never join the church for prejudices and slander that many out side of the church propegate. I guess what I am saying is all converts to the church had a life before LDS and we shoudl use that life to strengthen our testimonies and the testimonies of others around us. SO I say be proud of who you were who your are and who you may become. If someone is uncomfortable or doesnt like you because of who you used to be then they have the problem and they are the types of christians whether mormon or not I think need to bear a shame. They are not following the church teachings of love and are definitely not trying to walk a life with Jesus unconditional love at the center of it. it is them I fear for at judgement not people like you and me who come from a colored and non typical mormon past. I often debate in the community conferences I teach on religous and cultural tolerance that I believe some times converts to a church can be that churches strongest asset. Not to say there are not innumerable strong mormons that were raised mormon and embody everything mormon and christian, but converts generally have a better time with acceptance and a strong testimony because they know what “else” is out there and found the ability to search within themselves and look to heavenly father for the strength and the faith to unerstand and face the life changing road ahead.
Comment by jan — March 20, 2010 @ 10:12 am
Oh, I totally agree. When I was talking about the Atonement and repentance in 79, I meant repentance for what he did that landed him in prison, and it definitely wasn’t tax fraud. I hope it isn’t a sin because then I’d have to repent every time I drank a Diet Coke.
Comment by jen — March 20, 2010 @ 10:20 am
My understanding was that when we took the name of Christ upon us, when we decided to be a disciple / member of his family…and according to the scriptures, mainly because he “bought us with a price”…that we are no longer OURS, but HIS and our bodies also belong to Him in his service.
I had thought that it was a worthy goal to grow up into the Lord and a diving image until we could finally have His countenance upon our face and a Fullness of the Holy Ghost ..being FULL of truth and light…..One with the Godhead and One with all things of the upmost purity and love.
Not strive to be worldly, following trends or wanting to stand out as an individual?
Is is being unique to following what everyone is doing in tats?
Is being an “individual” sort of being rebellious against being one with each other…..”if ye are not one, ye are not mine?”
I am an artist. I love color. I love designs. I love expression.
I just thought art all was to be used to lift and better and inspire and become more holy in the service of God and to lead to Christ?
Not be devisive or contentious.
I know we have full and conplete agency to do and say and be anything we choose.
I do know every choice is vital and has it’s own accompnaying consequence..from my own incorrect or poor choices.
In the “world” today, we have made convenants to lead others to Christ, not to gaze upon our body in a vain display, or as a visual mark for us to “look” to daily. Our hearts and spirits must EVER be focused upon Christ.
Our entire being must ever be concentrated upon RECEIVING
and listening TO the Holy Ghost. Not “inner voices” of self
alteration, EXCEPT to become more holy and full of light and truth. There is good and bad to all alterations.
Those choices should be Christ centered and in full obedience to commandments. Otherwise we are in rebellion. Perhaps ven a tiny stud can become a stumbling block……
Do we want a fullness of becoming LIKE Christ or just 98%?????
Do we want a fullness of the companionship of the Holy Ghost, or is it ENOUGH just a tiny bit, now and then.
Serious questions.
He suffered piercings to give us the atonement.
Was that not enough piercings for us?
His scars are marks……..might they not be enough a tattoo for us to look to?
Serious thoughts.
With Easter close, let us focus on Christ, not on all the ways we can glorify the mortal and carnal.
Comment by Sharon LDS in Tennessee — March 20, 2010 @ 10:34 am
Nice post, Jan.
Jen, it is a running joke in out family that it is a sin to tell people NOT to drink coke, because someone saw pres monson w a dr pepper at a diner in Utah.
Yes, I just called dr pepper ‘coke’. I’ve outed myself… I’m from georgia.
Comment by pdig — March 20, 2010 @ 10:34 am
Comment by corktree — March 20, 2010 @ 10:35 am
It is for me. No details, but basically any assumption people make WAS* true.
*operative word
Comment by pdig — March 20, 2010 @ 10:40 am
My remarks on #87 were strictly focused on current and future decisions of tats or piercings, not former lives, mistakes, misunderstandings, ideas, or whatever in getting body art or jewelry.
The old life, so to speak is in the “tomb”.
Only today and from now on matter according to the power of new knowledge and ability to decide according to the influence of the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I am referring to NEW tats or additional new whatever…….after consideration of our Saviors atonement and marks being the ones we need to honor, look to and appreciate.
We all need to have unconditional love and brotherhood in all our wards and outside church lives.
I am just reminding us all of the basic reasons why we might consider the guidelines more seriously..that Father has given…in the greatest RESPECT to our Savior who loved us enough to make the MOST IMPORTANT marks and piercings FOR us, that WE would NOT have to suffer ourselves and be lifted UP.
Comment by Sharon LDS in Tennessee — March 20, 2010 @ 10:48 am
Sharon, I agree with you that Christ should be number one. He came to call us unto repentance. I understand that there were people on this thread who are talking about getting new piercings or tattoos, or talking fondly of old ones, but everyone is at a different point in their journey. You cannot know that they are not pointed in the right direction (on the straight and narrow path) just because they are not perfect yet. Your post does imply that reasons for getting a tattoo matter, and I wish you would keep in mind that you cannot infer someone else’s intent based solely on actions. My point is, accusing people of taking Christ’s atonement for granted is serious business. I suggest you try to be an example of who you want people to be rather than a warden.
Comment by pdig — March 20, 2010 @ 10:56 am
When I was a deacon, I was assigned to HT with an older guy, a really sweet, quiet, solid person. The weather turned colder, and he began to wear short-sleeved shirts. I was shocked to find that he had a mermaid tattoo (and ::gasp:: a bare breasted one at that!) on his arm from his stint in Korea. But it didn’t change the wonderful person he was.
I say don’t be ashamed of your tattoos. The bias against tattoos in the Church is simply based on preconceptions about the kind of people who have tattoos. Those with tattoos can help in breaking down those stereotypes and preconceptions by being open (assuming that the tattoos in question are not particularly lurid), and by breaking down that stigma, make it easier for others with tattoos to avoid any sort of shame or guilt.
Comment by Derek — March 20, 2010 @ 10:56 am
Your second post had a much softer tone, but I am just concerned that it is a very wrong application of right principles if you plan to judge someone who might walk into your ward with a new tattoo tomorrow. I commend you for wanting to help prevent people from making bad future choices, but you can only control yourself. To others, we are asked to love and show charity, and right principles follow.
So in other words, if you talk nicer, people listen more.
Comment by pdig — March 20, 2010 @ 11:02 am
to Sharon… I think anyone LDS or christian can agree or understand your post, however whether the tatoo is old or new,,,, it is often part of a different cultural world than just American culture( I suggest you attend a hawaiin or tongan ward if you have the chance) within these wards you will find many tatoos, you looking at the tatoos would not understand the meanings, most of them look like tribal bands etc but many are birthright markings, marks of distinction for good deeds, maturity, goals achieved…. etc. I think that most LDS try to do the best we can, our church is strict, but the blessings are abundant. However we cannot always ask all mormons all over the world to totally abandon thier ethnic and cultural background either. That being said, If it is a matter of tatooing and piercing in vulgarity or vanity or selfishness then that may be a direct violation of gods law, however the most important thing to remeber is we while walking on this earth are supposed to worry about ourselves and our familys first and try to be loving, christ like people and take our own eartly test to return to our father. Part of that is showing unconditional love and acceptance as christ did (you know mary magdalen) type stuff, it is not our place to judge. We are to walk like CHRIST not LIKE the father. The FATHER holds one major key we will never have and that is the right to JUDGEMENT…. think carefully on earth even CHRIST himself did not have that right, so obviously none of us do! The only judgement we are allowed to hold is the judgement of ourselves….. respectfully in disagreement and a LOVING SISTER TO ALL
Comment by jan — March 20, 2010 @ 11:14 am
Dear pdig………..I am not good with communicating, mostly good with loving and being unconditional, no matter how it did sound.
I am very very sorry if it sounded in any way not nice.
I just grieve for my own incorrect decisions and want so badly to help other to stop and think about the WHOLE thing, not just a moments quick impulse.
I absolutely understand everyone is at a different place.
It took me a lifetime to not see through a glass darkly.
I am STILL on that journey.
It never ends.
The process of progress and enlightenment is eternal.
I just was crying out with probably poor choices of certain words.
But I am VERY sincere about my pleas to get help from above in any decision to mark or put just decorative holes in our bodies that belong to Him.
I dearly love everyone. I am far from a great example.
Please forgive my stumbling attempts at such an important message.
Love to all………
Comment by Sharon LDS in Tennessee — March 20, 2010 @ 11:15 am
Thank you Sharon, that was beautiful.
P
Comment by pdig — March 20, 2010 @ 11:19 am
Sharon…. I commend your last post…. You just emboddied Christ teachings so well… humility and honesty! Love to you and your family as well
Comment by jan — March 20, 2010 @ 11:24 am
Dear Jan and other…….Gosh, how I’ve seemed to just mess up in bearing a testimony. Pop, bang, boobie trapped myself.
Mean’t well, need a writing course or “on the spot” editor I guess…Hey guys, would you take a blogging “group hug”??????
How do we reach out when we feel desperate to truly “help” in bearing feelings, only wanting to lift someone, someway.
For months, I have kept off from commenting on all the sites.
Just read. Just enjoyed all my brothers and sisters sharing their lives.
And then when I share my own feelings….all I’ve done is
hurt you guys.
Sometimes I think it’s best to keep to “in person” group discussions, where the flow and tone of the words, the body language, the spirit attending can justify and support the TRUE intent. I’ve traveled around the world. I honor and respect all cultures. I feel for all my brothers and sisters to the extent of shedding many tears and laughs about all our lives and their cultural differentces and practices.
God Bless Us All.
Comment by Sharon LDS in Tennessee — March 20, 2010 @ 11:25 am
Dont stop blogging Sharon, dont be afraid…. As you were attempting to reach out to us is how we as well wanted to reach out to you…. I could tell your heart was in the right place. You were only doing what we all want to do and that is witnessing the gospel to others to help and you wrote eloquently and not offensively. My only intent was as yours was to help someone see another point of view… I sometimes wonder what it would have been like to live if Heavenly Father wouldnt have had the awesome insight to make us all so different so opinionated and he was gracious enough so that (at least most) can hear an opinion process and reason it out and then change who we are in response. It amazes me the growth and changes each human being is capable of making in thier lifetime. I think that is one of the best blessings he bestowed on us!
Comment by jan — March 20, 2010 @ 11:37 am
I’m lovin’ the love on this thread.
Comment by Stephanie — March 20, 2010 @ 11:39 am
Yeah group hug!!!
Don’t feel bad Sharon, it’s us too. It’s hard to write AND hard to understand. Nothing in any of your posts was ‘bad’, it just IS hard to hear how someone means something, and there are some real poops who think we are bad just for being here in the first place. I hope you stay around and keep posting!
Comment by pdig — March 20, 2010 @ 11:40 am
Hugs back……downturned lips now smiling!!!!
It does amaze me how hard communicating is…even though we spit out hundreds of words so quickly!
I loved what Jan said about Father hearing us.
Almost makes me very surprised He has any patience left with the billions of “kid” chattering away, yelling away, moaning and groaning (me) begging for things, pleading in pain, etc…..and still listening intently….(wondering how in the ‘heck’ am I gonna anwer that prayer/)
I do feel better now knowing I can goof - repent - learn better how to share with you all.
I was an only child……….of an only child…..who had an only child….who had an only child…..and am now a new great grandmother! 3 weeks ago..7lbs, 21 inches.
So, all these things you all share with me help me to know how to BE a well rounded great grandmother….to keep current and fresh and OPEN !!!!
Thanks again for the open hearts. I will keep trying.
(and actually look forward to the ’straightening out’/look at the other side’ process) as it is ALL worth it!!!
We are never too old to learn and grow = change & improve.
Comment by Sharon LDS in Tennessee — March 20, 2010 @ 11:52 am
The more you say, the more I like you, Sharon!
Comment by pdig — March 20, 2010 @ 11:59 am
There was an old poop;
who lived in a blog.
She wrote so many yukies;
she turned into a frog!
Then one day ten princes;
rode up on their Harley(s);
kissed her with ferver and
now she has her own website……..
that Google bought for 2 bazillion.
I wish. Smiling.
Sure glad they make adult pampers.
Comment by Sharon LDS in Tennessee — March 20, 2010 @ 12:00 pm
Sharon you are hilarious…. I wish all the wonderful and interesting people on this thread could meet. I so often see the awful mean things religous debates spur from people…. My son was rejected from a non denominational highschool because he was mormon… when I said but your nondenominational and the reply from the priniciple was yes we are for christians! I was appalled… I have another child at this school in middleschool who was having a GREAT experience there. I am so distraught for the one not accepted and fearful of whAT TO DO for the oher who loves it there and has wonderful teachers and friends but how could I let him keep going there and get to the highschool with that awful man shrouding his hatred in CHRIST! I am not taking this one lying down and I am taking my case to a review board and the the national board that oversees this school.. IT WAS AWFUL! Anyone it has been a wonderful experience on here to see how all have been respectful and kind even in a religous debate that can often be like lighting a box of matches while standing in a pool of fresh gasoline while blowing concentrated oxygen in your face. So at the risk of sounding condescending please imagine the true spirit I am saying this… I AM PROUD OF EVERYONE ON HERE AND YOU ARE A GREAT GROUP
Comment by jan — March 20, 2010 @ 12:09 pm
I’ve been in many wards around the world, mostly because of my hubby being in the Army and there have always been at least a handful of tattooed brothers and sisters, even now in my current ward in Utah County. They’ve been Bishops, YW/YM leaders, RS President, Primary Teachers and Songleader, and everyother calling under the sun. Some of the tattoos you only saw outside of church, but many every sunday (including my bishop). They just showed, and no one that I ever heard of cared.
I may be wrong, but it sounds to me like you feel unsure of your tattoos and/or piercings (possible ones too?) That’s where your problem really sits. Not in your Ward Members. I could be way off though!
Comment by Janan — March 20, 2010 @ 3:14 pm
Yeah you might be right. I hate the ones on one of my legs. The idea of showing my arm ones is a lot less scary, so it does sound like you’re right, like I’m just afraid of feeling embarassed.
Comment by pdig — March 20, 2010 @ 5:01 pm
Derek I agree with you. I just don’t see how using a new tattoo for a learning experience/teaching tool will help children. I say get one if it’s important to you, but using it at church to teach what exactly? That you should not listen to the prophet if you have a good reason to? I think using old tattoos is different than new. Oh I disregard things but don’t use it as a learning tool for children and teens. Why? Because I know the consequences of my actions because I am a adult. Getting a tattoo at this point in my life would probably not do any harm at all. But children who do not have the experience of knowing consequences not a great learning tool. They will take it to the next level and drink casually or other such things. Which again as a adult who knows consequences I am not going to judge but I also am not going to use it as a learning tool.
Comment by Don't want to be judged!!! — March 20, 2010 @ 6:48 pm
After many years of thinking about it I am getting a tattoo this summer (my first - only?). I have always wanted one but my wife was not interested. Now at 40 she has decided she wants one so we are going to do it together.
Comment by TStevens — March 22, 2010 @ 1:49 pm
I have a ladybug tattoo on the back of my hip. a couple of years ago I was bending down and a bunch of my nieces and nephews asked why I had a “sticker” of a ladybug on my back
pretty cute.
I will get another tattoo if I have a child with their name and birth date
Comment by ladybug — March 23, 2010 @ 1:09 am
Personally I’m not a fan of tattoos (on me. I love looking at them on other people, so long as they are tastefully done). But seeing someone in church with a tattoo doesn’t bother me at all. Oddly, what does bother me is seeing those girls at church who’ve fake-tanned so much that they’re orange, who have fake nails, super-expensive clothes, so much jewelry they jingle when they walk, hair dyed a fake blond, etc. It just seems so inappropriate to look like that in the house of the Lord.
I know there are several converts in my ward who have tattoos and I have a friend who has several tattoos all over his body. Like I said, as long as they are tasteful, they don’t bother me in the slightest. Crude words, phrases, or images bother me, as do pictures of cartoon characters and tattoos that seem like they are there mainly for shock value, as if the person getting it just thought “hey, i want a tattoo to prove I’m edgy” and then just picked something at random. I know people who have tattoos with a great personal significance to them, and in my opinion that makes the tattoo much more beautiful when there’s a story behind it.
I would never put a tattoo on myself, personally. I can’t handle the permanence of it and I feel that it would be wrong to alter my body like that (I’m not trying to offend anyone who has chosen to have a tattoo, I’m just explaining why it isn’t something *I* would choose). I can’t think of an image or words that are significant enough to me to want them on my body permanently. I change my mind a lot and I know I wouldn’t always be happy with it. I do think there are beautiful words or images that I love to display, which is why I have before gotten airbrush or henna tattoos, which stay for a week to a month, depending on what type you get. Usually by the time they wear off I am tired of having them on my body. I also have a hard time with the idea of putting a tattoo on my body when I think of how my skin will change as I get older. As much as I think something would look beautiful on me now, I know I would hate the look of it in thirty or forty years from now.
This is just me, though. I also don’t have any piercings (I have had my ears pierced in the past but have developed an odd allergy to all kinds of metal - even the hypo allergenic steel and the pure gold - and have decided it’s not worth the pain to wear cute earrings. I would love to find earrings with plastic posts so I could wear earrings again, but I am fine without them. I have in the past gone fake tanning…twice. I don’t find any real enjoyment in it. I feel that I look better with my peaches & cream colored skin. More natural. I do dye my hair, but in my defense my normal hair color is a very mousy brown, so I dye it a lovely reddish-brown with some purple and red peekaboo highlights in it. It’s lovely in the sun, and compliments my skin color very well.
…I somehow turned this into a very long rambling reply. Anyway, my point is this: wear what makes you comfortable. If someone tries to make you embarrassed or ashamed of your tattoos they are not a very nice person and I would just say ignore them. I agree with the posters above who’ve said if you wear something to purposefully “show off” tattoos, I might consider it immodest. But if you dress modestly and weather-appropriately and comfortably and your tattoos happen to show, it shouldn’t be a big deal.
Comment by Andrea — March 27, 2010 @ 7:26 pm
Does anyone else just plain not like tattoos? Totally outside the LDS context, but as a fashion? Maybe I’m just an incurable prep, but wow, yeah, I think I’ll go donate blood if I want to be stuck with needles and will dye my hair if I want a new “look.” Can Eddie Bauer-wearing women be feminists too, or are we too “well-behaved”?
(and no, to re-emphasize, I do not think I am more “righteous” for my personal fashion choices . . she said as she ate chocolate-covered coffee beans. SO worth the terrestrial kingdom.
)
Comment by Portia — March 31, 2010 @ 7:32 pm
I have been recently baptised. I am a mother of 2, 44yo, my son joined me in the church one month ago, Hubby and daughter are still far away.
I have 8 tattoos and 5 piercings in my ears.
I have never ever dreamed of covering the visible ones (6) and i wear all my 5 earrings.
My tattoos are a part of my life, they are the names of children and husband. Why should I feel ashamed of this?
The curch reaction (I live in Italy) was absolutly good.
In fact I found a couple of investigators thanks to my tattoos, during the english class where I teach with the Elders. People that considered Mormons too rigid stopped me to ask further questions.
Funny is that I got all my tattoos 4 months before knowing the Missionaries.
It’s a matter of choice and comon sense to show them or not. If they are not unrespectable, it’s just up to us to decide.
I have decided to show. No lies, no covering. This is me. This is what I was and what I have became in years.
They often question me on how difficoult it has been to give up my former life. The answer is NONE at all. God loves me although of my past, although my tattoos. Isn’t this AMAZING?
Comment by mary-lou — March 31, 2010 @ 10:23 pm
Welcome Mary-lou…just as you are!
Comment by Melissa P. — March 31, 2010 @ 10:41 pm