To return to the temple
It’s almost time.
I can not describe the joy I feel at knowing this. I love the temple. There is a something there, a spirit, that I can’t quantify, for which some part of my spirit is parched. It is not just the white clothing, not just the hushed voices or the gentle organ music in the chapel–it is reverence itself manifest. It is truth divine, delicious to my soul. My head, so long in the world and the world alone aches for the quiet, the thorough, spiritual quiet of that dearest place where heaven meets earth.
I have been away for so long. I have always felt the lack. In the years of my ‘apostasy,’ even then, I could not help but pine for it. When heading out to the mountains for a weekend hike, we would pass by the Seattle Temple on I-90, and, most times my eyes would sting with the unwanted extra moisture that would push its way through my tear ducts. For all that I was no longer a part of the church, or so I thought, I could not help but miss it as I would miss a friend or loved one.
I look forward to the stillness, the unperturbed stillness. It is an anchor, a point of sanity in a world gone awry. Eternal truth in all its depth and breadth and height is there as plainly manifest as the sun shining on me now.
From the very first of my return, I have known I was working my way back to the temple. I am almost there. I can’t wait. I can feel it in my veins… “Home. Welcome. Welcome Home. Time to let it go. Beat. Beat. Beat. Breathe. Beat. On and on.”
Congratulations! Enjoy it!
Comment by Eric — March 10, 2006 @ 11:08 am
With an attitude like this, it is sure to be a blessed return. What a wonderful thing to look forward to. Godspeed Naiah.
Comment by skl — March 10, 2006 @ 11:11 am
I am so happy for you! Congrats on your journey home…
Comment by cheryl — March 10, 2006 @ 11:26 am
This is the single best post I’ve ever read in the nacle.
Naiah, you have reminded me what a privelege temple attendance really is.
Comment by Bonjo — March 10, 2006 @ 11:27 am
Very well said Naiah. I firmly believe that the Temple is the key to great Knowledge and wisdom, if we but seek it out.
Enjoy what will be a very happy reunion with your God.
Comment by Guy Murray — March 10, 2006 @ 11:29 am
Congrats, Naiah. I hope that your experience is as wonderful as it should be.
Comment by John C. — March 10, 2006 @ 12:27 pm
The Seattle Temple is where I did baptisms for the Dead as a youth. I always thought it was cool that, from the freeway, it always appeared as though it were in the middle of nowhere because of the trees.
Congratulations on going back. I recently went to the Portland Temple after not having gone for a few years, and it was wonderful. I had almost forgotten how peaceful it feels in there.
Comment by Ian M. Cook — March 10, 2006 @ 12:29 pm
Are you being serious, or is this a sarcastic blog entry? I honestly felt nothing but the creeps from being in the temple. The clothes, the rituals, it all weirded me out. But I can get that same peaceful feeling you describe from a walk on the beach or in the mountains. It is spiritual, but nothing to do with religion. I will never go back to the Mormon temple.
Comment by Tiff — March 10, 2006 @ 1:55 pm
Well said. Titus 1:15 captures it well.
Comment by Stephen M (Ethesis) — March 10, 2006 @ 2:06 pm
Tiff, my heart breaks for you. I am quite serious in my post. Before I went to the temple for myself, 10 years ago, I had been told that the ceremony could be overwhelming or even confusing for some. For me, though, it was exactly what I had anticipated it to be. I see nothing creepy in the beautiful visual imagery of everyone in white. There is a purity associated with that color, and a brotherly/sisterly equality in everyone wearing it the same.
As for beaches and mountains, there are hints and touches of that same feeling everywhere in the world, for it is His creation, and His touch is etched in every aspect of it. The temple celebrates and reflects and even magnifies that. In the temple, though, there is more than a mere etching, more than an echo of His breath. It is the place on earth wherein we can feel closest to God.
I am so sorry for you that you appear to have had such a hard time with it. Pray about it.
Comment by Naiah — March 10, 2006 @ 2:14 pm
Thank you for you beautiful thoughts on the temple. Congratulations and God bless you as you return there.
Comment by KFR — March 10, 2006 @ 3:18 pm
I was directed to this blog by a post on “Recovery from Mormonism” - www.exmormon.org.
Not sure if you want to keep this post here, but for what it’s worth, here is my opinion:
I’m a gay man, formerly mormon and a temple-goer.
If I want to see people all dressed in white, I can go to a white party. There you will find many gods, all dressed in white. The spirit there is unmistakable, and everyone is always happy and smiling.
If I want to worship gods in a more natural surrounding, I can go to Black’s Beach in San Diego, or take a hike up the mountains in Griffith Park. In either place, I certainly feel close to ALL of God’s creations!
No need for an expensive building with all kinds of rituals and confusing messages. To me, it’s a mass of confusion.
Comment by Ken — March 10, 2006 @ 3:44 pm
Ken, I wouldn’t expect to find a lot of understanding of the temple on RFM, but I appreciate your sensitivity in telling the posters here where some of the comments are coming from.
Comment by Ben S. — March 10, 2006 @ 3:51 pm
Welcome back
Comment by SalGal — March 10, 2006 @ 3:56 pm
I’ve been responding to everyone directly in email, but Ken, I wanted to also publicly thank you for taking the time to respond even though you don’t share my feelings, espcially given how civil your response is. As I mentioned above (in comment #10), of course God’s love is evident in nature, it is His creation. Celebrate it how and where you will!
Comment by Naiah — March 10, 2006 @ 4:21 pm
I totally agree with Ken. In all honesty Naiah, my heart breaks for you. For a person to feel they have to pay a huge chunk of their income, subject themselves to humiliating interviews to determine their “worthiness”, wear special underwear, etc, etc in order to feel close to God is really, really sad. Please understand I mean no disrespect in saying these things, for I was once Mormon as well and I understand what you are going through. I have prayed about it, and found an inner peace that I never knew while practising Mormonism. I hope that someday you as well as all Mormons can find that kind of tranquility without giving your time, money, your whole life really , to the Mormon church. God loves you sweetie, just the way you are, without all the hoopla your church is convincing you that you need.
Comment by Tiff — March 10, 2006 @ 4:40 pm
Well, I’ll try to straddle this divide (possible??) by saying that I’ve never felt closer to God than I have in nature, where it’s just me and the mountains, the trees, the earth, the breeze and the sky. And that’s where I’ve felt the most peace as well.
I also understand how Naiah feels that sort of peace in the temple. While I, myself, have never felt unadulterated peace there (it’s more bitter-sweet for me, sometimes more bitter, sometimes more sweet), I have felt it and I know how offering yourself and just experiencing what one considers to be a holy, sacred encounter can bring a unique, sanctifying peace. Whether one finds this in a temple or on a beach, I think the sacredness of it is the same and should be respected.
Comment by Artemis — March 10, 2006 @ 5:00 pm
Naiah, I can relate in many respects to where you’re coming from, and congrats. Tiff and Ken, I guess I’m sorry, but can you take the negativity elsewhere? Obviously, this is an open forum, and you all have the freedom to say what you want, and the ‘nacle is the place for freedom of expression, but the posts in this context are bad form.
Comment by queuno — March 10, 2006 @ 5:10 pm
Tiff,
I will not allow this thread to be used to contentious purposes. I’m terribly liberal this way, but I believe very sincerely in religious pluralism–letting everyone worship what where and how they may.
When I said that my heart broke for you, I was quite honest as you claimed to once have had what I now have and value greatly and lost it.
Your heart need not break on my behalf, as I am quite joyful to be where I am. Ten pecent is hardly a huge chunk, and given the purposes to which that money goes, it is better spent in tithing than anything I might fritter it away on. I have yet to have a temple interview that was anything approaching humiliating. Living such that you are worthy, or unsullied by the world, and being able to confidently say that to an ordained priesthood leader is hardly cause for embarassment. As for garments, I find them a comfort and a joy. It is said that they are an outward expression of an inward commitment, and there is more to them, of course, but suffice it to say that I find them to be a blessing.
I do not do those things out of some sense of necessity in order to feel close to God, and if you feel that way, it is no wonder to me that you are not a member. God is there, always, loving all of us. That is not why I choose to do these things. His love is unconditional, undoubtedly. There is nothing sad, at all, about my relationship with Him.
Know that I find a great deal of joy, comfort, and peace in my religious path, as I can accept you do as well where you find yourself now. I am sorry for you that you never were able to feel what I feel in regard to the church, and I say that simply out of my value for it and not by way of demeaning any of your feelings. I think it is good, and out of love for all my brothers and sisters on this earth, I would wish everyone could feel it.
I wish you well on your own path, with complete respect that it is what is right for you. Joy and peace in any brother or sister is never to be diminished or demeaned.
Comment by Naiah — March 10, 2006 @ 5:17 pm
Ditto to queuno’s comment # 18. In fact it goes beyond mere negativity. It is akin to Pearls before Swine.
Comment by Guy Murray — March 10, 2006 @ 5:17 pm
I don’t know about the temple myself. I believe that when a person say they’ve had a spiritual experience in the temple, they are putting more faith in a building than in God or superego or what have you.
It’s not where you are, but your ability be still to receive peace in your life. Men built temples. Men interview people so they’d feel “worthy” to be there. People are silly enough to put themselves at the whims of “worthiness interviews” and holy garments. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? They have given away what was theirs to others. They have lost their minds and their hearts and allowed others to sell them back to them again.
Comment by Kendra — March 10, 2006 @ 5:21 pm
Hahaha, Guy,
I can’t resist…
Your comment makes it look as if they are casting the pearls! I think you just inavdertenly called me a pig!
Ok, lets all let this go now. Scipturally cited contention is still contention, ok?
Comment by Naiah — March 10, 2006 @ 5:22 pm
Not at all . . . .your post and your more than gracious interaction with the trolls were the pearls . . .you can divine the swine from there.
Comment by Guy Murray — March 10, 2006 @ 5:25 pm
Oh Kendra,
It is not the building or the clothes. It is the gestalt created by the minds & hearts of Saints coming together in a place set apart, a place with no worldly troubles. It is so much more than the building, the altar, or the spires. It is holy ground, and yes, there is something to be said for a place voluntarily set apart from the world.
You are mistaken. No one holds or controls my spirit but me. I have neither sold nor bought it, and yes, there is much more to life–and to the temple. Do not confuse the physical trappings with the human experience. To celebrate in what is truly a beautiful thing in this world is not in anyway to forfeit other important concerns.
Comment by Naiah — March 10, 2006 @ 5:28 pm
Like Tiff and others, I find real spirituality and a connection with God out in nature. Other places I’ve felt that same peace have been the National Cathedral in Washington DC and at my brother’s Catholic wedding where even non-Catholics can attend, unlike if he were Mormon.
Comment by Adrienne — March 10, 2006 @ 5:52 pm
Naiah, how could you even think that you were “in apostasy” while you were pining for the temple?
I can understand how those who don’t like the temple might fear they’re on the verge of apostasy (I don’t think they really are, unless they want to be, but I can see how they might mistakenly think they are).
But if you always accepted the temple as one of the highest and best spiritual things ever…girl, you never really left!
You’re giving us real apostates a bad name, (well, actually we already had a bad name in some quarters) making people think that we all still “know it’s true” deep down and are just pining to come back.
Trust me, when the real apostate drives past the temple, she thinks, “Whew! So glad I never have to go there again!”
Anyway, I’m glad you’re happy with your choice and sad that you kept yourself away from it so long. I bet the long absence will make it even sweeter to go back.
Comment by Beijing — March 10, 2006 @ 5:54 pm
Sorry, Naiah, if you feel I am being contentious or even negative, that was not my intention. It does seem to me, that a lot of Mormons, maybe even a lot of Christians, seem to think that if you disagree with them you are being contentious. I don’t really understand why that is. Anyone else experience this?
Comment by Tiff — March 10, 2006 @ 5:55 pm
Hahaha Beijing!
Lol, so sorry to give the real apostates a bad rap! My bad!
I refer to my years of inactivity by a handful of different monickers. I call it my ‘hiatus’, my ‘apostasy’, etc, and they’re all a little tongue-in-cheek; thus the single-quotes around them.
Comment by Naiah — March 10, 2006 @ 5:57 pm
Another point of view is that a person is a person, whole. What I encountered when I went through the “personal worthiness” interviews as a young person was an organization trying to cut me into pieces that were either 1) acceptable or 2) not acceptable to it. To myself, I was all acceptable. I had things I wanted to change about myself by my own standards, but I didn’t find it necessary for someone else or some other organization was going to tell me, “You need to change XYZ because it is unacceptable to US.” I knew that was not right. I felt the pressure to conform for the sake of conformity; not because I actually thought anything about me was inherently “evil” or “wrong”. Those words were manipulative. They were meant to make me afraid, and I was not afraid. I would not adopt that way of looking at life.
Comment by Kendra — March 10, 2006 @ 5:59 pm
I think many of us feel close to God when in nature. It does not surprise me that Joseph Smith had his First Vision in a forest. He wanted to pray in private, with no distractions, and we should all follow his example. Some of us these days have to work a little harder, go a little farther to get to nature! But it is so worth it.
Naiah, I’m happy for you. Thanks for sharing your feelings of anticipation. I enjoy the temple, but without childcare, I don’t go very often.
Comment by jks — March 10, 2006 @ 6:01 pm
16. Tiff — You haven’t left the Mormon Culture as much as you might think — you’ve still got the “My way is the right way for everybody” thing down cold.
Naiah is describing the joy and anticipation of something that’s very special to her. That it isn’t for you doesn’t mean that it isn’t for her, so why do need to insist that she isn’t as happy as she thinks she is, that she has to reject all the things you felt the need to reject, etc.?
Naiah — I’m glad you’re getting to go, and that you’re looking so forward to it. I look forward to that day myself — I’ve been feeling a hunger for the Temple on and off the past few years. I know what you mean about the peace of being in that place, and I want that again.
Kendra — We all do silly things. That they are (or seem) silly to others doesn’t make them wrong, bad, or a waste of time.
Comment by Blain — March 10, 2006 @ 6:09 pm
So are you reading from my comment that if a person does things that are “not acceptable” to another organization, that those things are automatically labeled as “silly”? Isn’t that maybe a tad condescending?
This is the same reaction my sister and sister-in-law had when I announced I would no longer attend church with them. They said my life was “void of meaning”. Hmmm… My reaction to that was, “Isn’t the meaning in my life mine to determine?” In their minds, I suppose, a life without spirituality as they practice it would be “void of meaning”.
Anyways, in my case, my mother introduced me to the LDS church as a child. She was raised Catholic, so she maybe needed the structure of an organized religion, as this was her upbringing. I believe that certain personalities may be drawn to that, and really don’t believe myself to be one of them.
Comment by Kendra — March 10, 2006 @ 6:23 pm
Kendra,
Naiah isn’t saying that your life is void of meaning. She’s saying, however, that her life has more meaning when the temple is in it. And you seem to be telling her that she shouldn’t feel that way, that she’s focusing too much on buildings, or that her spiritual choices are “silly” (your word, Kendra, in comment 21, for anyone who gets a temple recommend - a group which clearly includes Naiah).
You write in your own comment (33) “Isn’t the meaning in my life mine to determine?”
Yes. And so is hers. Now please, give her a little respect for her own choices and her own spirituality. Stop telling her that she’s focused too much on buildings, or that her own spiritual choices are silly.
Comment by Kaimi — March 10, 2006 @ 6:33 pm
Too bad so many people have wasted time attempting to derail what is a wonderful post of joy and light.
Find peace, share joy, be kind.
Comment by Stephen M (Ethesis) — March 10, 2006 @ 7:15 pm
Naiah–
What a wonderful post. The bloggernacle needs more of you and more of people like you.
With tiny kids and no temple in town, we aren’t able to go quite as often as we’d like. It is always delicious to be able to go.
[I was initially sad to see the RFM link, but I think the contrast in comments becomes instructive in itself.]
Comment by Julie in Austin — March 10, 2006 @ 7:18 pm
I am not a mormon, just wandered in here by accidental search. I just wanted to say that while I think the Temple, and heck, all of mormonism is a little creepy, I really don’t think attempting to browbeat some woman out of her pleasure of it is cool. How would you like it if she hung over you and your “Death by Chocolate” at Applebees ( or whereever) telling you how many fat grams were in it, how big your thighs already were, and how there’s a much-better-for-you apple ( or yogurt) across the street at Albertsons for far less!
Some battles require choosing. All battles require grace!
That being said, I don’t see how in the world you thought the words feminist and mormon belonged that close to each other! It’s like saying Queen Latifah IS skinny……… next to a blimp. Sorry!
Enjoy your Temple…just don’t vote as LDS under any false delusion you are a feminist by any stretch of the imagination but your own.
Comment by Laura — March 10, 2006 @ 7:22 pm
Laura,
If you aren’t Mormon, you more than likely don’t know enough about Mormonism to tell Mormon women that they can’t be feminists. Come now!
Naiah,
I’m very happy for you. I love the temple too, and find it is one of the few places I can quiet my brain enough to really listen. And if that makes me silly, etc., in the minds of some people, so be it. One thing we know from Lehi’s dream is that people searching for and partaking of God’s love will be mocked for it. (Though I suppose there is a bit of irony here if you think some temples look a bit great and spacious!)
Kendra, Tiff, etc.
I am a twenty-seven year old woman who has been through lots of questioning and confusion. This is still the path I’ve chosen, and I get quite sick of hearing how in fact I’ve been duped and I’m being manipulated. These are extremely tired arguments against organized religion. I don’t mean to be contentious, exactly, but for Pete’s sake. I’m glad for you that you’ve found paths that are comfortable for you, but don’t assume that the rest of us are victims just because you felt like victims.
Comment by Minerva — March 10, 2006 @ 7:49 pm
Naiah,
What a great post. Thank you for sharing your heart-felt feelings about the Temple. It makes me sad that people feel the need to tear down or denigrate such a positive, inspirational, and well-written experience.
It reminds me of the story of the crabs. Put one crab in a pot of boiling water and it will crawl its way out. However, if two or more crabs are in the pot, they will always pull each other down until they boil together. I’m glad you rise above the negativity and maintain such courtesy and kindness.
I spent most of my life growing spiritually and building my relationship with HF by prayer, in nature, at home, at church…and anywhere, except the Temple. When I finally went to the Temple last year, I had mixed feelings, but felt stronger, deeper, and more personally spiritual than I have ever felt before. My spiritual maturity increases with every Temple session. It feels like Heaven on earth.
Comment by Julz — March 10, 2006 @ 9:38 pm
I’m happy for you! I am unsure of lots of things in the church, but I can’t deny the peace I feel in the temple. As soon as I arrive I sigh, like “everything’s going to be alright.” And different and confusing as it may be, there’s definitely something to it.
Even if I am duped and brainwashed and just content because I’m comfortable with it, it’s a nice feeling. And in a couple of months two of our little ones will be sealed to us. I can’t wait to be in the Seattle temple with my 6, 5, 4, 1-year old, and husband. It will feel right, for whatever reason.
Comment by Kerri — March 10, 2006 @ 10:41 pm
Ack, Naiah, I was surprised to see such a ‘mixed review’ of your post in the comments here!
Amen and amen to all who said this was a beautiful, well-written expression of faith!! Collective sighs for those who wrote to attack or belittle others.
I’m excited right along with you. I’m thrilled that I might be able to go next month (baby’s older, family coming to town, etc) to the temple a mere 45 minutes away.
For those who are sniping, I feel compelled to share the temple covenant-making storyfor me and my husband(first time for both of us). Do you know who gave us the greatest support? My ATHIEST father and step-mother. They drove to SLC after a long day at work to sleep in a motel, they walked around temple square with our baby until it was time for the sealing ordinance, they posed for pictures on the steps of the Salt Lake temple and were the only ones of the 30 some-odd people there to stay with us for lunch afterwards… why? Because they believed in supporting us, their daughter and son-in-law, even in a venture they could not participate in because it was important to us! Because they believed in ‘live and let live’, and they also had the integrity to live that as well.
Naiah’s self-expression does you no harm.
Express your two cents to disagree if you must, but you don’t have to be disagreeable doing it.
Comment by Téa — March 10, 2006 @ 10:57 pm
I’ll try to be objective here — I’m at BYU right now, around mormons who think I’m mormon, but the ones who really know me know that I don’t really believe in it. This is because of a combination of things. But, I also grew up mormon, and it’s hard for me to have animosity towards it.
I think those coming from the exLDS site are bitter because they feel they have been manipulated. It all depends on your point of view. And just like the way LDS like to share their religion, the ones who don’t agree with it like to share their opinion. Perhaps it builds confidence in your beliefs, whatever they may be?Anyway, I think they should be excused for just trying to share what they know instead of being disregarded as just some “apostates” from an evil “anti-mormon” site. These are real people.
Of course, I’m also glad that Naiah has found a place where she finds happiness. Many people find that in different places. And while I know that sometimes the truth isn’t always the happiest route to go, I don’t know what the truth is and I think we just get caught up in proving our own theories way too much in our lives. Life is too short to have bitter arguments, if you are happy now, then stay that way.
Comment by Ashworth — March 10, 2006 @ 11:45 pm
Lovely post, Naiah.
What I don’t get is that when people leave the church and claim they don’t want anything to do with it again and are happy to be free of it, why do they a) continue to talk and debate so much about it and b) spend so much time and energy railing against it to people who are obviously happy where they are at?
What is it that they can’t just walk away and move on? Are they not at peace with their choice? Hmmm. (Sorry, but it makes me wonder.)
Comment by Anelie — March 10, 2006 @ 11:56 pm
Ah, Ashworth. Missed your post. Sorry. (But I still wonder a bit.)
Comment by Anelie — March 10, 2006 @ 11:57 pm
Blain, you don’t know anything about me! I don’t think I said anything in my post that would indicate that I think my way is the only right way. I have friends who are from many different backgrounds and faiths. I am agnostic, but have no problem letting others believe what they may. I do have a problem with an organization (the so-called “church”) that lies to it’s members, and takes their money, their hearts and their lives. It’s spiritual and emotional blackmail and its sad.
Comment by Tiff — March 10, 2006 @ 11:58 pm
For me, true spirituality happens when I’m in nature. Only then do I feel closest to God. Other than nature, I find spirituality in other churches, and I know that when I visit Europe for the great cathedrals, I will feel God’s presence even more than I ever would seeing those ugly Mormon temples. Other churches allow non-members to see weddings, something that never happens in Mormon temples, even if the relative is a sibling or child.
Comment by Adrienne — March 11, 2006 @ 12:02 am
I know, I’m hijacking–sorry!
But just to clarify, I was in a very serious relationship with an “apostate” who, in the end, just couldn’t let me be happy in the church. He always had some such article or historical fact. ALWAYS. I know he just could not believe that I could stay in the face of all his “evidence”. But I could and I was happy and he drove me nuts. I wasn’t dragging him to church or shoving ensigns in his face, but he couldn’t do the same for me.
So I get it, I do. I know how frustrated he was. But it seems to me that he was making himself a bit miserable. That to me, seems sad. Hence the aforementioned wondering.
Can’t a girl just enjoy the temple in peace??
Comment by Anelie — March 11, 2006 @ 12:04 am
Anelie, to answer your question: “What is it that they can’t just walk away and move on? Are they not at peace with their choice? Hmmm. (Sorry, but it makes me wonder.)” I used to think that way as well.
Try leaving the church and you will wonder no more. My family and I moved four times in three years. Each time within days the ward missionaries appeared at our door. We told them we weren’t interested and yet they still kept contacting us. I had complete strangers from the local ward calling and asking personal information about my kids, and trying to come visit them. I get phone calls from church headquarters wanting addresses for family members who are trying to get the chruch to leave them alone. I have friends and family members who continually harrass me about leaving the church. The church won’t leave us alone. That is the problem. Trust me, my experience is not unique. Normal churches don’t track people down. Normal churches don’t harrass people. Normal churches let their members leave in peace if they so choose.
Comment by Tiff — March 11, 2006 @ 12:10 am
Tiff, you have to understand why these people are getting angry with your posts. You use strong language in your argument, like they “harrass,” they “lie,” “emotional blackmail,” etc. I’m not saying I disagree with you, and I understand this is a a tool EVERYONE uses in rhetorical discussions, but these people actually BELIEVE in what they are doing. So can you blame them for wanting to share it? Seriously, just look at it from their point of view. I understand how it’s really ANNOYING for you to be in that situation, because I might have a similar one, but they feel if the world is their religion, it will be a better place. I’m just saying that those words are a little strong, despite their possible truth, since that’s not really their intentions.
Also, Anelie, in response to your relationship, all I know is that it IS miserable to be without an affiliation with a religion. There is no explanation for our lives. There is no purpose. And if you live in BYU like I do, it really is a miserable place to NOT be LDS. But to me, sometimes truth does not equal happiness, and if I could go back, I would choose the latter over the former. But it’s too late. Seriously guys, just be happy, that’s the best thing you can gain in life.
Comment by Ashworth — March 11, 2006 @ 12:50 am
Tiff, I did leave the church, for three years. I have never had the experiences that you have had. So, unfortunately, I can’t relate. Each ward that I lived in in that time completely respected my privacy, and no one ever unwantedly contacted me.
As for the calls about ‘personal information’ about your kids, it was probably the Primary presidency of your ward who had these name on their list, with no attendance. My guess would be that they asked when their birthdays were? That’s just confirming their records, seeing if the records had the kids set up in the right class, in case you guys showed up. It’s a stewardship on their part.
You can have your name removed form the records of the church, don’t you know? Your new wards keep contacting you to see if you need anything from them. There’s an idea that if you have not expressly left the church that they stil have a duty to you, and it usually one born of love of fellow man. I would contact your local ward if you really are that certain, and have your name removed. That would end your troubles.
I have been in a calling where there were names on records and we checked in on them, etc, and I can say that it was always from a motivation of love and caring in my heart. If that kind of caring is unwelcome to you, then I would look at having your name removed form the records of the church.
I hope that helps bring you some relief.
I also hope that you can see why your various statements here are being seen as a harassment in themselves. People are reacting defensively as you are not commenting on the topic of this specific post, but rather ‘venting,’ and really this is not a post that particularly invites that. So, please, let’s stop the angry words, and just all accept that each of us is doing what is right for ourself.
I wish you well, and I hope that you do take the time to have your name removed. It should allow you the space you need.
Comment by Naiah — March 11, 2006 @ 12:56 am
Uh… hey, can you tell me why you just removed my post? I put some serious thought into that.
Here’s a summary: she probably still will be contacted when she leaves, but from her point of view, you should understand how it might be “annoying” since she just doesn’t agree with your faith. I also said that I feel the same way concerning other religions, so I can understand.
That’s all I remember saying. If you were offended by that, honestly, tell me where. I don’t like getting my opinion bleeped out. I was trying to resolve a few things, create a bridge, so to speak, but apparently you don’t like that and I really don’t appreciate it.
Comment by Ashworth — March 11, 2006 @ 1:28 am
All I’m trying to say here is that a discussion should feature both sides. And it has, but I just felt like you guys didn’t understand each other fully. In that case, things become less civil. I have my own life experience, and I thought I might help each of you out. What’s wrong with that?
Seriously, I’m responding to your blog and you delete my post… I just don’t understand why you would do that, especially when I wasn’t “stirring the pot” at all.
Comment by Ashworth — March 11, 2006 @ 1:37 am
Calm down, Ashworth. It was nothing personal. If you are serious about being a bridge, then get your hackles back down. Frankly, I do not think that a bridge is needed here. Tiff has expressed a major source of her frustration with the church, and I have offered a helpful solution.
If Tiff has her name removed from the records of the church, it will, in fact, be removed from the records of the church. She would stand no more chance of being contacted than anyone else.
Why convince her not to do it, when it might actually bring her some relief?
Now, please, let it go. Also, if you want to be taken seriously as a sincere contributor, then at least give a real email address with your comment.
Comment by Naiah — March 11, 2006 @ 1:38 am
About the email, I usually don’t like giving it out on blogs/internet, because spammers will find it and pretty much overflow your inbox. But there it is, I guess I’ll take that chance this time.
And I was never convincing her “not to do it,” I’m not sure where you got that from. I was just saying that if she’s in a Utah neighborhood, it usually won’t make all that much difference. They’ll still try to “reach out.” It’s just something she’ll have to live with, I suppose. It’s a way of life, everyone likes to share their opinions. I’ll bet you see the hypocrisy of her actions as well as I do, since she is posting hers in this blog. It’s just something we should accept.
Anyway, I think that any response to your blog is just one more support/brick for a bridge we build, as I said. As we post our life’s ideas here, we can see how we all think, and maybe even understand either other. It’s necessary for life, and even for this blog.
Comment by Ashworth — March 11, 2006 @ 1:51 am
Well said, Ashworth. Thank-you for coming around.
Comment by Naiah — March 11, 2006 @ 1:53 am
I’m sorry everyone, but I am disabling further comments to this post. I will not condone nonsensical blood-pressure raising, anger-engendering contention. To those who would comment to the post itself, I thank you for thinking to say something, but your comments can only fall into one of two categories. Either support for me for which I would have been quite grateful had you been able to post it.
Or it would have been further attempts at threadjacking, backhanded swipes of pseudo-assistance veiling only further insult in what has become a trainwreck of a thread. Any of this latter stuff and I say take it elsewhere. I don’t play that way. Disagreement is welcome, so long as it is civil and in a spirit of furthering everyone’s understanding. We must all question our faith, to exercise it and help it grow, and, I assure you it is quite possible to do that without demeaning or offending anyone, no matter how wide the roundtable. For those who meant to be helpful but whose aggressive tones overshadowed their good intentions. I would say that I am sincerely sorry for the misunderstanding and that I certainly would have rather had the meaning without the angry tone, hands down.
As I lay in the sunshine this beautiful morning, I felt a stirring in my heart worth sharing. For those who accepted my gift, know that it was given in sisterly love. For those for whom it brought hard feelings and old anger to the surface, know that you have my sincere sympathy and that it was not at all my intent to cause you discomfort.
Comment by Naiah — March 11, 2006 @ 1:54 am