Introverted in an Extraverted Church
Like all of my siblings except perhaps Melyngoch, I am an introvert. (We don’t know exactly how a person as hip and socially well-adjusted as Melyngoch happened in our family, but we love her anyway.) This doesn’t mean I don’t like people; it just means that I find them extremely over-stimulating and therefore draining and that I need a lot of time alone between social encounters to recover from them. (It also means that my husband and I argue at length over who answered the phone last and who has to get it this time.) For those interested in more on introversion, their own or others’, here’s the definitive statement.
Introverts are, I can attest, a sometimes clumsy fit into Church programs. For example, a brief flashback from my mission:
Hi, we’re missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day…oh, you’re not interested? So sorry to have bothered you! We’ll leave right away. (Thinks: what a relief!)
I found it deeply satisfying to talk about my faith once we had gotten past the small talk at the beginning (I think the Missionary Guide called it BRTing, for “Building Relationships of Trust,” a process I myself have never found facilitated by small talk.) But it was, undeniably, a huge relief to be off the chit-chatty hook. Of course, then the next person we had to stop would inevitably loom up on the sidewalk, a specter of introvert dread. I still think talking to strangers all day is the most exhausting work I’ve ever done.
Although I’m usually comfortable in a clearly defined role, such as teaching or giving a talk in sacrament meeting, interacting with strangers or large groups of people in socially casual settings makes me physically tense, and in such situations I sometimes find myself blatheringataninsaneclipbecauseI’msowoundupthatIcan’tseemtoslowdown. Then I go home with a galloping big-mouth hangover and swear never to return. Sadly, more often than not, this has been my experience visiting-teaching–or worse, being visit-taught–and attending Enrichment Night. For the most part, I like these Mormon women fine. I just have no idea what on earth I should say to them.
I’m guessing the bloggernacle is disproportionately introverted. Email and blogs are a fabulous means of communication for those of us who find an excess of real, live human interaction very, very tiring. Here, I can write something, send it out into cyberspace, and walk away for hours, or days, if I want to. I can think as long as I want to about how to respond to agreement or disagreement (which doesn’t always stop me from putting my foot in my mouth, but it helps). In short, I have the grace of time and physical distance to compose myself. I love it.
I’m nobody! Who are you? Are you an introvert too?
Most real native Utahns are a bit introverted.
It’s all that Northern European heritage. Scandanavia, Germany, Holland … They all tend to be pretty reserved folk. We aren’t touchy-feely and we don’t express a lot of emotion readily (except within the strictly defined social bounds of testimony meetings).
This is a hard thing for members of other ethnicities (like Hispanics, or even Japanese, believe it or not) who come to Utah. The place seems very cold to them.
Comment by Seth R. — May 24, 2006 @ 1:01 pm
Amen, Eve. Thanks for a post that really rings true for me. I’m quite introverted; I tend to test INTJ on personality tests.
I recently had a real-life conversation with a long-time blog friend, who was genuinely surprised. “But you’re such a social person on the blogs!”
It’s easier in writing. Less noisy. Less scattered. Less prone (I hope!) to misinterpretation. (But cf. thoughts in the other direction — by, um, me.)
“I just have no idea what on earth I should say to them.” Yep. Therein lies the problem. Hell will be a room full of people you barely know, waiters with trays of hors d’oeuvre, as you awkwardly navigate between hard-to-hear conversations and nod and mumble and try to sound witty, and wonder when you’re supposed to be joining some conversation cluster and when the cluster has passed you by, and is-it-okay-to-go-get-a-Coke-now-or-am-I-violating-some-norm-by-leaving-the-
conversation-too-quickly, is it even a conversation at all, hmm, no one’s said anything directly to me for at least three minutes, I’ll just step out and get a Coke and then come back and maybe try to unobtrusively wiggle my way into another conversation cluster, stand there and nod for a while, rinse and repeat.
Comment by Kaimi — May 24, 2006 @ 1:14 pm
Aaaaaaggggh. I have felt this so many times after giving what was — as others have described — a “stunning” presentation. I get logorrhaea, bleh blah bluh. I go home with a headache and a racing heart.
Or, if I’m in one of those dinner parties where small talk is pounding around the room like bowling balls, I’ll pounce on the one slip of a sentence which reveals a deep, inner contemplative truth. Such as “I hated our hike in the woods. I’ve never liked the woods. It’s too claustrophobic for me. My husband always likes the woods, though.”
Then, I might turn into what Sarah Vowell calls a “verbal Mt. St. helens, sitting quietly with an old guy in a cabin on the side of me, then erupting all over the place…” not the exact quote. But I’ll jump in with my entire rumination on the subject, because I just spent hours pondering the same thing recently.
When all the commenter was probably saying was, “I don’t like the woods. I’d rather be at the beach.”
My question is, when we do erupt, where does that come from??? Is that a muse? Or bottled, repressed ruminations???
Comment by pele — May 24, 2006 @ 1:23 pm
Oh my goodness, yes. I hate VTing. I don’t understand small talk (where does it even come from? My brain can’t seen to form the requisite pleasantries to spit out of my mouth!). I cling awkwardly to my more socially adept DH at ward parties, or thrust my children in front of me to use as conversation pieces. I’ve been a failure in my calling as assistant compassionate service leader because it’s so hard for me to connect with people I only know superficially (especially with the added pressure of knowing they need that connection).
I’ve always preferred to express myself through writing (I got to know my two lifelong best friends by writing notes when I should have been taking notes in junior high). I can be witty and articulate and nobody has any idea how long it took me to get that way, lol! What did people ever do before email, the internet, the bloggernacle…? I’m old enough to know, but can’t seem to remember.
Hey Seth: I am English / German / Danish by heritage, so I guess I can blame my ancestors for my temperament (or pathology, as DH likes to tease)! That’s good to know, lol.
I suppose the church’s programs and culture are good for people like us — I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t even try to overcome the limits of introversion otherwise. (Not that introversion is bad, or extroversion better, but I could certainly stand to be more balanced.) The whole deal is sooooo uncomfortable for me, but I keep hoping it’s growing pains I’m feeling, and that I’ll look back in 10 or 15 (or 50) years and see how far I’ve come with the Lord’s help.
Comment by RCH — May 24, 2006 @ 1:29 pm
Ok since we’re sort of confessing our real selves, here, I have to relate what happens when I get on the wrong side of my introversion…this morning I lit into a lady at Starbucks, because she had the gall to move my stuff out of the chair I was saving for myself while I was in line. That was my space!!! Then, when I tried to be civil and tell her that was my space, she replied “Oh, it’s OK, you’re jacket’s over there.” Then, she proceeded to dis me to her friend on the cell phone.
So that’s when my ugly introvert roared “EXCUSE ME!!! ARE YOU ENITLED TO MOVE MY STUFF AND THEN DIS ME???” I stopped at “YOU B*TCH!!!”
Rahr. Never, ever, mess with an introvert’s little cave of privacy.
Since I am an introverty little gal, I’ll tell you then, my next rumination (since there must be a cosmic meaning to this). I find it hard to understand boorish social lack of manners, and the feeling of entitlement we Americans seem to have…rahr. Also, it seems that we introverts are the very people those boorish extroverts take advantage of, because we usually don’t want to say anything…not out of politeness, but we don’t want to disturb our day.
Comment by pele — May 24, 2006 @ 1:51 pm
Another introvert here. I don’t remember the last time I went to Enrichment, and I will often put off my home and visiting teachers because I often don’t have the energy to do the chit-chat thing, even though I like both my VTs and HTs just fine. In my YW days, I used to skip church dances and go and play the piano in the relief society room.
The main thing that’s frustrating to me about all of this is not that the programs are not the best fit for me (I’m okay with not going to many activities or Enrichment night), but that I feel like I don’t get to know my ward members as well as I’d like. Sure, I’m to blame in part, since I’m not going to the activities. But I have to wonder if there’s a better way to set things up at times so that I can get to know people without it being socially overwhelming.
Comment by S — May 24, 2006 @ 2:01 pm
One of my biggest frustrations at BYU was roommates who saw introversion as something that needed to be cured. “We just need to get Lynnette out of her shell,” they’d say, and attempt to convince me to come along to an endless string of church activities. However, my introversion remained intractable. I’ve been known to arrive at church a little late and sneak out a little early, simply to avoid the dreaded small talk that goes on before and after meetings.
One of the most liberating realizations for me was that perhaps God didn’t expect me to transform myself into an outgoing person (which was the message I internalized for years), but that I actually might have something to contribute even as the often reserved and easily socially overwhelmed person that I am.
Comment by Lynnette — May 24, 2006 @ 2:06 pm
I am definitely an extrovert, but I was so shy and socially awkward for the first sixteen years that I didn’t know it. I thought when I blossomed socially in college that I was acting completely out of character and would return to my true introverted, bookish self after my fling with the (Mormon) party life, but I have never wanted to. I think part of the reason I adored my mission was because of the excuse to talk to people all day.
I sometimes feel like a prisoner of my extraversion. My need for sociality sometimes outstrips the available supply of kindred spirits. This means that I have chosen to go to parties where I don’t particularly like a single present because I would still enjoy that more than staying home and not talking to anyone.
My fiance is very introverted while not being at all shy. His personality fits me perfectly, and I’m very grateful for it. I admire his personal independence - and have found a great deal of peace since I realized that I do not have to be everything I admire.
Comment by Katie P. — May 24, 2006 @ 2:39 pm
I’ve never taken one of those tests or anything, but I think I’m probably an extravert, I enjoy people and am generally at ease in social situations, and I’m not shy either. Which isn’t to say I always have the best social skills, which is a whole different kettle of fish. I never have trouble thinking of something to say, I can small talk for hours, months, years, but I don’t always say the right thing.
My dh is the exact opposite, he is a little shy, he is an introvert, and he has amazing social skills, he never says the wrong thing. If you can drag him into a group of people long enough to say something then everyone falls in love with him.
Comment by fMhLisa — May 24, 2006 @ 3:06 pm
Okay, so let me just preface this by saying that I don’t think introversion is a disease or something that needs to be cured. Some people are just that way.
I do want to say that as an introvert who has started to “come out of her shell” life is better when your not always freaked out. I still don’t answer the phone if I don’t have to, and I’ll probably write you an email back if you leave me a message.
My wonderful husband is a very social person. People meet him for the first time and love him forever. He is the King of small talk. He saw how uncomfortable I was in social situations and has helped me overcome my fears.
The thing that you have to realize is there are very few people out there who are actually born to make small talk. Most everyone is uncomfortable in social situations. Some people are just better at hiding their fear than others. You’re not alone.
So just a couple of tips to become more comfortable:
1.) PRACTICE! I practiced with myself in a mirror. I practiced with my husband. Constantly I was trying to come up with things I could talk about. VT is a perfect place to practice, cause no matter what you say they will probably be back next month.
2.) Relax. Easier said than done. But you just have to realize that not everyone is watching you. What makes you so important that everyone would be looking at you? Does anyone really care when you excuse yourself to get a coke? Just relax and be yourself. If that means just nodding as part of a conversation that’s fine. No one will really care that much. And what’s the worst thing they could say? “Gee she really didn’t have an opinion on that topic.”
3.) Be comfortable. You don’t have to put yourself in situations your not comfortable with. If you would rather sit at a table and drink your coke that’s fine. It’s not a big deal. Do what you want and don’t worry about what you think everyone else is thinking. Be comfortable with yourself, and comfortable in your own quiet confidence.
Please take all this the right way. I’m not trying to say that introversion is a terrible thing and no one likes an introvert. I’m just trying to give some tips on how to be more comfortable in public situations.
Comment by Trivial Mom — May 24, 2006 @ 3:07 pm
Oh yeah, and bringing back on topic. I enjoy VT and HT both going and coming, it is a huge burden for my husband. He hates it. I love the halls at church, and all the social interaction moments, dh can’t escape fast enough. I think it’s downright painful for him to just enter those big rooms full of people. I don’t even think about it, it’s easy for me.
Comment by fMhLisa — May 24, 2006 @ 3:09 pm
Hehe…I thought that was just our home.
I think my introversion made it easier for me to leave the church when my doubts and concerns became too much to ignore. I didn’t need the church as a social gathering place like many others do–I got enough of that from day-to-day living. In turn, it may also be why the Bloggernacle appeals to me: I still have that connection with my religious heritage, without the face-to-face interaction church attendence requires.
I’m really enjoying your posts here at FMH Eve.
Comment by Wendy — May 24, 2006 @ 3:27 pm
Yes, I’m an introvert. A big amen to what was said in the post and what the other introverts have posted.
Trivial Mom, your suggestions are useful for overcoming shyness, but introversion is something different (though sometimes they cohabitate the same human).
That article from The Atlantic has long been one of my favorites, and I’ve shared it with many friends who just don’t get the introversion thing.
Comment by Tanya Spackman — May 24, 2006 @ 4:14 pm
Trivial Mom (#10) -
I like to make a distinction between shyness and introversion. Shyness (in my book) is a fear of social situations, where introversion is a dislike of social situations. Shyness should probably be addressed or “cured” if it’s interfering with common activities (and I think your advice is good on that point). Introversion, on the other hand, doesn’t need to be “cured,” because the preference for smaller groups and more private time over large groups of people is no more pathological than the preference for chocolate over strawberry.
In my experience, the problem for introverted people (especially in the Church) is when extraverts mistake introversion for shyness or when they don’t understand that some people genuinely find social situations exhausting.
Comment by Katya — May 24, 2006 @ 4:18 pm
(I didn’t see Tanya’s comment I posted mine — but it’s nice to have my analysis backed up!)
Comment by Katya — May 24, 2006 @ 4:20 pm
I am shy/introverted. I have constant anxiety about how I’m being pereived, so I prefer to not be perceived at all (on the internet it’s less of a problem since I can be my most articulate self, nobody can see me, and being thought a dolt has little or no real world consequences). My shyness isn’t so bad that it interferes with living a normal life, though. I went on a mission and did OK. I’m married. I’m not completely anti-social, but if it weren’t for my wife I’d be a total hermit.
I do feel like this is something that I have a responsibility to do my best to overcome. The main reason being that as a member of the Church I believe I have a responsibility to be a missionary and to be a servant to my fellow saints and other “neighbors.” Shyness and introversion are obstacles to fulfilling these responsibilities. I would like to believe that people like me are exempt from the mandate to share the gospel, but I know I’m not.
Comment by Tom — May 24, 2006 @ 5:09 pm
Hi! I’m so introverted my family hasn’t seen me without my face in a book since I was 8.
Rahr. Never, ever, mess with an introvert’s little cave of privacy.
Ditto, xerox, fax and cc that! I love blogging for all the reasons you said, Eve. I can take my time about what I write, then take my time about responding and there’s none of the pressure there is in real-time dealing with people. I also tend to talk a mile a minute when I have to do the stand up and talk to people thing… yet I’m okay facing my Sunday School class. I hate phones. I really hate phones. I can’t see expressions or body language and it just unglues me.
Comment by Proud Daughter of Eve — May 24, 2006 @ 5:18 pm
I’m an extrovert in person. I am in a social line of work and can easily find 30 minutes worth of conversation with ANYONE. One of my talents is walking in a room and winning it over. But, that doesn’t mean I always WANT to. Believe this one, but extroverts can be very private people. I’m pretty picky with my personal time and who’ll I’ll devote that to. And, as much as I can (without any anxiety or “work”) get people around me engaged, I don’t want people stepping over the line into my business unless they know me well. My home is my business. I screen my calls and don’t invite many people over. My precious free time is best spent with just my husband and family. But, if you see me somewhere outside of that personal realm, you’d find me outgoing completely.
Here’s the weird one - as extroverted as I am in person, I am introverted on this blog. I am nervous my comments will come across wrong, won’t sound intelligent or witty, and that without seeing and talking with me in person, I just come off wrong. How’s that for being the opposite of most fmh’ers?
Comment by Leslie — May 24, 2006 @ 5:34 pm
Tom — I’d encourage you to nurture your inner hermit. A hermit is listed as an archetype of the subconscious. That is, it’s part of our human psyche. If it’s there, it’s there for a reason, because it was created by our Heavenly Father & Mother. I suspect your introspection and creativity are your strongest gifts.
Comment by pele — May 24, 2006 @ 8:17 pm
Answering machines/voice mail seems to have this power to unglue my powers of reason and control. Communicating with a machine turns me into Patrick on SpongeBob when he’s worried about something. Aaaha. aaaah. aaaaaah. It takes me about twelve minutes to say “I’ll pick you up at 5″ and then I’ll usually forget something important and have to call back.
I love typing. Sometimes I air-type while I’m thinking to myself. Is that odd or what.
Comment by pele — May 24, 2006 @ 8:21 pm
Total introvert here. My husband put a stop early on to my bringing books to parties and restaurants, if that tells you anything! It’s not that I don’t necessarily want to be at the party — I just want to be there, curled up on the couch in the corner with my book and look up occasionally to hear what other people are saying. I guess that’s why i love the Bloggernacle so much — I’m at the party but don’t have to say anything if i don’t want!!
And I hate vt and ht - giving and receiving. It’s such a pretense. I find it demeaning to be home taught. vt’s a little better, but my thoughts are, I’m an adult, if I’m lacking anything physically or spiritually, I’ll let you know. Of course, I’m too introverted to actually say that, so I just suck it up and nod a lot.
Yoko Ono once said that people hated her because she couldn’t/wouldn’t do small talk. What’s there to talk about?
I love that!
Comment by meems — May 24, 2006 @ 8:27 pm
I wonder, though, if sharing the gospel has to be done in an extraverted fashion. My guess is that I’d personally have an easier time hearing it from a fellow introvert than from, say, a friendly stranger on a plane; like many introverts, I’m happiest with just a few close friends, but I know a lot about the faith of those friends (both LDS and non-LDS) because we spend a lot of time having the kind of quiet conversations that we both enjoy.
Comment by Lynnette — May 24, 2006 @ 8:36 pm
(And speaking of friendly strangers on planes, when I fly my biggest worry is that I’ll be stuck for hours sitting next to someone who wants to talk. The possibility that the plane will crash isn’t remotely as troubling. ;))
Comment by Lynnette — May 24, 2006 @ 8:40 pm
I’m about as extroverted as the human species allows. Like my Pa, I can happily make good friends with a cashier in about 5 minutes, and i really love getting to know new people. I like that I generally put my students at ease (thus, they share their academic and also personal concerns with me, thus reifying my pathetic adjunct existence). Furthermore, I’m not at all shy about discussing even the nastiest portions of my life.
What I HATE, however, is when people assume that because I’m an open person, they can be really rude to me. A lot of folks seem to believe in the equation: Friendly=Stupid, or better yet, Friendly=Easy Target. Grrrrrrrrr.
Oh, Pele–I air type during boring meetings at church. Which is to say, a lot.
Comment by Janet — May 24, 2006 @ 10:09 pm
I think most of us who wander the blogosphere are pretty introverted — we don’t like talking to people face to face, but have no problem spilling our guts digitally.
Being an introvert, there are a handful of things which annoy the hell out of me. One, when I go to church, which is about once a month, I am asked how I am. When I answer, ‘Okay,’ they reply, ‘Just okay?’ Judas Priest, I hate that. Second, when I have to get up in Sunday school, introduce myself and tell everybody 5 things about me. Third, the constant badgering I receive about attending game night. Get it in your heads, people; I don’t want to go!
There needs to be a special group within the church for the anti-social…
Comment by Rob — May 24, 2006 @ 10:11 pm
“Are you an introvert too?”
Definitely. And, it’s amazing how less exhausting communicating via the written word is than talking for me. For instance, I hate it when the phone rings. It’s not that I don’t want to talk to people, I do…but the phone is my enemy. However, the same person IMs me and we’re golden!
Comment by Stephanie — May 24, 2006 @ 11:11 pm
It’s definitely good to know that I am not the only person who feels you can believe the Gospel, grow spiritually stronger, and not attend every single activity to which you are invited.
Comment by Stephanie — May 24, 2006 @ 11:33 pm
I am extremely introverted *and* shy. Going to church is hellish for me because I live in such a small ward you can’t hide, *everyone* is worried about me and wants to know how I am doing… they get my husband involved and talk about me in meetings.
Last Sunday a member of the Stake presidency came down and actually held my hand hostage until I would tell him something was wrong with me. I don’t do well in social situations under the best of circumstances and it doesn’t help when someone (who is genuinely interested in my well being) is earnestly holding me hostage and insisting I connect with him. I told him I was fine but he wouldn’t let go of me until I came up with an acceptable reason to look so miserable during sacrament meeting. It takes me a very long time to feel comfortable around people and most of the general population I just don’t enjoy being around.
That said, I have gotten a lot better. I used to hide from people and would spend all of my time in bathrooms, libraries, dark corners… anywhere no one could find me and want to talk.
Comment by LAT — May 25, 2006 @ 2:20 am
I just had a conversation with my mom yesterdady about how I wished I were introverted. I went off about how it musts be easier to be an introvert. I was feeling a bit isolated and was wishing I could curl up with a book and feel happy. Instead I have to depend on other people to recharge me. This isn’t usually so much a problem but I had been sick for a while and couldn’t orchestrate any social gatherings. Then I got depressed. I really don’t know if its easier to be introverted or not, but in this situation I was wishing…
Comment by jen — May 25, 2006 @ 6:27 am
Rob,
If there were group activities in the Church for the anti-social, who would go?
Comment by Seth R. — May 25, 2006 @ 6:54 am
I’m so introverted I’m even having trouble blogging lately. Or keeping up with my email (sorry to all y’all to whom I owe email). I’m pretty sure I’ll snap out of it, soon, but my job is so socially demanding that by the time I get home I just want to hibernate. Luckily my husband is introverted, too, and therefore takes no offense when I just want to snug down with a book. Neither of us is overly concerned if the phone just never gets answered. And it’s kinda funny when we find ourselves IM-ing each other from different rooms….
I have a hard time with VT/HT/feeding the missionaries/etc., too, but the practice I get at work has helped me to at least not make others uncomfortable with my closed-mouthed-ness (usually). I do feel guilty about others thinking I dislike them (a common enough misconception based on, I think, the fact that I seem so comfortable speaking in classes or in front of groups that people assume I have something against them personally when I’m not very talkative one-on-one–that and a face which is apparently “stony in repose”), so I do make an effort to be amiable. Of course this necessitates taking a long(er) nap after Church!
Comment by EmilyS — May 25, 2006 @ 8:04 am
I think that as hard as it is for introvets in this extroverted church, it can be just as hard for an unorthodox extrovert.
I’m a clumsy, passionate extrovert who doesn’t always agree with things in our church culture/doctrine. I’m getting better at screening who I say what to, but too many times I’ve said things (probably more than just “said”–more like impassioned speeches) without thinking and have ended up with the same discussion-hangover. It can be difficult explaining yourself to members of this church, and if I were more introverted, I think I would have an easier time (because I’d do more thinking before speaking).
I also think it’s interesting that introverts tend to blog more… I guess for me, I don’t post much because I’d much rather talk and have a conversation than type.
Comment by Aspen — May 25, 2006 @ 8:27 am
Eve, I love this post. And I love this passage:
“Although I’m usually comfortable in a clearly defined role, such as teaching or giving a talk in sacrament meeting, interacting with strangers or large groups of people in socially casual settings makes me physically tense, and in such situations I sometimes find myself latheringataninsaneclip becauseI’msowoundupthatIcan’tseemtoslowdown. Then I go home with a galloping big-mouth hangover and swear never to return. Sadly, more often than not, this has been my experience visiting-teaching–or worse, being visit-taught–and attending Enrichment Night. For the most part, I like these Mormon women fine. I just have no idea what on earth I should say to them.”
My goodness. This is me EXACTLY. All this time I thought I was just socially delayed.
DH and I are both a little introverted. Historically, we haven’t had a lot of friends outside of family and long-term friends, because we just haven’t needed them. (Does that sound awful?) We were just happy being at home, being with each other, and hanging out together.
When we moved into this ward, I decided that I really needed to check out this “having friends” thing. I wasn’t lonely, it just seemed like the right thing to do. So I decided to act extroverted, and before I knew it, I had a zillion new friends. I was invited to book club, playgroup, girls night out, game night, a million things. My phone rings off the hook. I never answer it, and when someone leaves a message it makes me anxious, because I know I’ll have to call them back at some point. And I don’t know how to extricate myself, because I genuinely like these ladies, I’m just not good at being so social.
I like all of these women that I’ve met, but I dread the small talk. I act like an idiot sometimes. I can’t handle some of the eye contact. I don’t know where to look when people are talking to me. I’m starting to get tired of the bemused expressions on their faces when I’ve said something odd, which happens quite frequently. It’s like I don’t have a filter for my thoughts when I’m in a large group.
OK, wait, maybe I AM socially delayed after all.
PS: I air-type too. I used to dream-type back when I worked way too much…
Comment by Sue — May 25, 2006 @ 8:48 am
#18 Leslie I couldn’t agree with you more. I have this crazy mix of being a complete and total social butterfly, I can start conversations and get people laughing and talking, I make chit chat with strangers in the grocery line, I just love meeting new people, talking, I’m great in customer service- but then there is the other part of me that is totally introverted. Not in a shy way, but in a I need to decompress from people kind of way. Case in point, being alone in Japan, living alone, no family, surrounded by people who don’t speak my language. I think to many of my friends, my sudden random withdrawals from the social circle are confusing, and come off as some sort of a moodiness, a sudden change- when really I’m just moving through the ebb and flow of my needs to balance love love loving people, and relishing those days when I don’t remember the last time I’ve spoken a loud.
And Janet, #24, I second that! People think I am some ditzy crazy girl sometimes, I am often considered an open “target” for rude and insensitive comments, and yes, my intelligence is often questioned. My boyfriend likes to try and compliment me out of my funk about it, saying “pretty social girls can’t be intelligent too, it just pisses too many people off!” To which I laugh. But it does still bother me, and I can’t help but wonder if those moments when my extroversion backfires are what motivates my periods of precious, wonderful solitude.
Comment by sophia*rising — May 25, 2006 @ 9:23 am
Most people I know would never realize I’m an introvert, except for a few of my very close friends - I definately try to hide it as best as possible. I am definately an introvert, however, - probably on the cusp of very mild autism. Anything new - especially with a lot of people can really overwhelm me. Talking to strangers is really hard. I especially don’t like talking to strangers on phone - it is really disconcerting and exhausting for me for some reason.
I don’t really mind talking to people once I get to understand them and know them. I’m also a sort of empath - I don’t know if most introverts are like this - but I really absorb others people emotions and it can really be exhausting, even emotionally, being around people. That said, I have gotten a lot better lately. After a trip to Home Depot to look for a light bulb changer where I was completely overwhelmed (and completely bawling), I realized it was getting ridiculous. I then began to force myself into positions I was uncomfortable, tried as best I could to turn off my compulsive worrying and just focused on accomplishing the deed at hand. Once, I realized doing new things weren’t that scary and people were genuinely nice and would help me, my apprehension of doing new things and talking to strangers really eased. Plus, I costantly reminded myself when it was all over I could hurry home and hide in a good book.
Comment by Anonymous — May 25, 2006 @ 9:27 am
Ugh, this is me, too — which is tough b/c DH is one to quickly blow off steam after a hard day at work and then he’s FINE. Meanwhile, the emotional sponge that is me has that bad mood lingering over me all night….
Comment by RCH — May 25, 2006 @ 9:55 am
It’s great to read everyone’s thoughts about this. I don’t think I’m really an introvert, although I do have awkward moments (for sure).
I do, though, have a girl in Young Women who is quite introverted. She is a beautiful girl, well dressed, far from friendless — in fact she is a cheerleader at school. I think she is okay with that because it is a rehearsed, group activity. But she refuses to read or pray in class. She hates to be put on the spot. She hates to receive credit for anything she does. As time goes on she seems more and more angry and more and more eager to get away from our activities.
Any of you introverts have ideas for me on how to reach her? She’s a senior this year
Comment by Ana — May 25, 2006 @ 10:00 am
Excuse me, I should have said she will be a senior next year. So our time is running out a bit but not quite as fast as I made it sound.
Comment by Ana — May 25, 2006 @ 10:01 am
Re #32: I get “discussion-hangovers” too (that is the perfect term!). I don’t know what happens to me. Sometimes it’s like people open the door a crack and I rip it off its hinges, and then I end up wondering why I went on ranting and raving to people on very slight acquaintance and with no real invitation to get on a soapbox. I think I vacillate between having too many social inhibitions (I wish I’d spoken up about something) and too few (I wonder why I didn’t shut up).
Comment by Kiskilili — May 25, 2006 @ 10:55 am
My hubby is very introverted and hates large crowds, foyer chit chat and socails. would much raher go and sit in the car and leave me to it` or talk to someone one to one rather than in a crowd. he comes across to others as a snob but it certainly isn’t and he has to try really hard to talk and mix. i’ve known him him to literally shake beforer he goes to talk to someone. me i’m exactly the opposite!! and have to do things to help him along!!!
Debra UK
Comment by debra — May 25, 2006 @ 11:06 am
Kiskilili, me too! I think after my performance at book club last month, when I went totally off the rails talking about a book I didn’t like, people are going to give me a wide berth. I either say too much or too little - cannot find that balance…
Comment by Sue — May 25, 2006 @ 11:55 am
Hi! Long-time lurker, here. Saying that, you already KNOW I’m introverted!
Re: #31, EmilyS– I completely know what you mean, and you’ve helped me to understand why I feel the way I do. I work in Social Services, so I am helping people, talking to people, TAKING CARE of people ALL DAY. I’m good at what I do and I like my job, but at the end of the day I DON’T WANT TO TALK TO ANYONE, let alone take care of one more person’s problems.
I have a friend who calls me frequently, and I will often not answer the phone because she will keep me on the phone for a half-hour AT LEAST (forever, if I let her!). Not only do I not have that much time to devote, I just can’t bear it. She calls to talk about her personal problems, and I have no more emotional reserves at the end of the day to listen to her or help her. I know it offends her if I don’t answer the phone, or if I go too long without making some kind of effort to “connect” with her. I don’t think she understands this about me, especially because I tend to “act” very extroverted when I’m with people, but that’s what it is– an act. And I think she takes it personally when I just can’t keep up the act– she thinks I don’t like her or I’m mad or whatever.
Anyways, I have a lot of guilt about it all. It feels good to know that I’m not an anti-social freak for feeling like I need to hide in my cave at the end of the day.
Comment by Quiet by choice — May 25, 2006 @ 12:04 pm
Home Depot & Costco give me an emotional rash. But I have to agree, Anon. Repeat your shopping list as a mantra. Nails, caulk, sandpaper, screws. And don’t get a membership to Costco. DH (who is an understanding extravert) worked out the math: it doesn’t really pay to buy in bulk if your wife is wigged out.
As far as the cheerleader goes, there may or may not be another issue going on besides introversion. But those stories have to creep out on their own; it’s perhaps the best you can do to provide an open, safe outlet??? I remember once a professor I had called me to his office. I thought I was in trouble…but he asked me if I had a problem with him, because I was always sitting in the corner, scowling…nope. Just me being a sponge. If I’m scowling, I’m ruminating, and that means the class is interesting.
Comment by pele — May 25, 2006 @ 12:33 pm
Ana (#37),
I think it’s great that you’re asking. Maybe one possibility would be to spend time doing an activity she enjoys in a small group, or perhaps even one-on-one? A structured activity might be helpful; being dumped with people and expected to just talk is something I find horribly awkward and draining, but working together on a task, in a setting where conversation isn’t necessarily required, is much easier for me. I hated parties as a teenager, but I had a lot of fun getting together with my friends to (supposedly) do our homework; the fact that the overt purpose of our meeting wasn’t to socailize made it far easier to actually socialize, if that makes sense.
Comment by Lynnette — May 25, 2006 @ 12:33 pm
I was introverted as a kid/teenager and am extroverted as an adult. I took one of those tests and scored very introverted when I was about 14, in addition to being painfully shy. Other kids at school thought I was snobby and stuck up when I was really just trying to avoid social contact. We moved when I was 16 and I started a new school as a junior. Having a fresh start I made a bunch of new friends and had a great time.
My husband and I have moved several time (5 states in 5 years) and I’ve become extroverted, more as a mode for survival than anything else. If I don’t make the effort I don’t make any friends. Although I do revert back to my introverted self every now and then, I’ll get a headache or feel exhausted after a social gathering. I actually prefer large functions (like a ward party) because I can sit and be quiet or alone for brief periods of time (or escape to the restroom and no one notices) where if it’s a small party at someone’s house I feel I have to interact and I can’t run away!
Comment by Blue gal — May 25, 2006 @ 12:42 pm
If there were group activities in the Church for the anti-social, who would go?
I like the way you think…
Comment by Rob — May 25, 2006 @ 1:05 pm
This was my experience as well. I came to know about this because someone I became good friends with as a senior related to me what the general opinion had been when I was a sophomore. I was very taken aback by the revelation, and have since learned to be very cautious about pigeonholing people.
Comment by Ben S. — May 25, 2006 @ 1:26 pm
RE:#32
This is so true! I periodically make personal goals never to open my mouth in Sunday School again because I invariably say something that nobody wants said, including me. I’m perfectly aware of how the social rituals and small talk and Relief Society comments are supposed to work, what you can and can’t say, but I just can’t make myself behave and so I’m constantly in trouble with someone.
This has always been a big spike in my relationship with my more introverted family members, actually — they keep in close touch electronically, and I have a very limited appetite for blogs and newsgroups. (One more reason we need to all live in the same state ZDs!)
Comment by Melyngoch — May 25, 2006 @ 2:53 pm
If there were group activities…heh heh heh.
It just occurred to me that I think I might live in a city of introverts. I am on an island near Seattle (even an introverted city is too much for me, so I run off to my island). There have been countless bashings of “our” character. Such as, we’re friendly, but we don’t make connections. So, we’re friendly, but cold, cold people.
Well, duh, Seattle is where the introverts go when they jump off from the rest of the world. It’s the metaphorical-couch-and-good book for the socially hungover. It’s usually dark and wet anyway, the perfect excuse to stay inside.
Seattle’s shamed chief-of-police, fired for mishandling Mardi Gras riots a few years ago (riots? here? who knew???) now secludes himself on a super-secluded island. He writes on his memoirs all day, and goes out in the evening to have dinner with friends. That, I think, would be the perfect “group activity” for introverts. A small group of friends, after ten full hours of alone time….
Comment by pele — May 25, 2006 @ 2:55 pm
I’m a total introvert, the seemingly required small-talk before EQ starts is one reason I love my Primary calling. I actually changed grocery stores because my new one had one of those self-checkout lanes that allows you to skip saying hello to a cashier. When pay-at-the-pump was a new thing at gas stations, I’d drive four blocks past my regular station to use one that had it. Last year I did 95% of my Christmas shopping over the internet. And guess what’s been keeping awake late at night for weeks? I’m blessing my son next week and am dreading that walk up and back in Sacrament meeting.
Comment by jjohnsen — May 25, 2006 @ 3:03 pm
pele- funny stuff! I grew up in Kirkland/Redmond. I now live on the East Coast and miss Seattle terribly!
Comment by Blue gal — May 25, 2006 @ 3:36 pm
Aspen, I can totally relate to the unorthodox extrovert discussion hangover you describe! If I think the teacher says something that’s false doctrine, I don’t hesitate to nicely state my disagreement. I’m always butting in with the minority view. This is nice in that less shy people constantly thank me for saying what they cannot, but awful in that I rely on others to recharge and fear that I have offended them.
I’ve never had a really bad case of fallout yet, but now that I live in conservative Utah, it’s just a matter of time….
Plus, when you’re usually extroverted nobody seems to think it’s remotely possible that you also require quiet time alone. Which most of us do.
And Pele–i’m so jealous you’re in Seattle!!!!! I grew up in Port Angeles and still miss it quite a bit. Oceans AND mountains. That’s the life!
Comment by Janet — May 25, 2006 @ 4:12 pm
#46 Rob wrote
“I like the way you think.”
Knowing what I know about my mind Rob … that’s rather disturbing.
Comment by Seth R. — May 25, 2006 @ 7:09 pm
What is it called when you just don’t feel like talking to people? I don’t think I’m an introvert per se - and I’m not shy - but sometimes I’d just rather not talk. This is particularly true of people I know but don’t particularly like - I couldn’t be bothered wasting my time making small talk when I’d just as soon pretend you don’t exist. Maybe the correct term for this is “bitchiness.”
Comment by Quimby — May 25, 2006 @ 7:50 pm
Anyone missing Seattle, click on this weather link here and get back to me
Comment by pele — May 25, 2006 @ 8:00 pm
my two cents…I
First, I miss Seattle so much it hurts! It is the perfect city for me, I even took a stupid quiz to tell me that. It’s been 3 yrs and will be 2 more, but I can’t wait till I get back to the city of introverts and hermits. And I just found out that we arn’t moving to the NW as soon as we thought…here we come Tuscan?
Second, I don’t know about any of you, but I am an introvert caught in an extrovert body. I seem to have this friendly, bubbly, passionate enthusiasm, which leads people to believe that I’m a natural “life of the party”. The truth is so far from this it is sad. My husband and I both hate HATE to answer the phone (we don’t even own cell phones because we don’t want to be too available). In fact email feels taxing at times. I can put on a extroverted face for the world with the best of them, but it tends to leave me feeling like a wilted flower at the end of the day. People who I trust with my deepest darkest secret don’t even believe me, but it’s true! I am introverted and proud! I wish everyone else could except this fact and stop expecting (forcing) me to be an extrovert.
Comment by Arya — May 25, 2006 @ 8:34 pm
About the cheerleader, my guess is that she has a secret that she thinks would make people at church realize how horribly unworthy and unlovable she is (or perceives herself to be, according to the messages she gets from church), and she puts up barriers to keep you from finding out the secret. I’d guess she’s convinced that if you knew her secret, you would be shocked and would judge her harshly and would tell her she must change, but she has already tried to change and can’t, and now all the former sins have returned, and it deeply anguishes her to not be able to please you (and by extension, Heavenly Father), so she’s starting to throw up her hands in despair. Maybe she masturbates, maybe she has an eating disorder, maybe she has sexual feelings toward girls, maybe she is strongly disinclined to ever be a mother…there could be a lot of things. I bet she has a strong need to please, a strong drive for perfection, and an overly keen sense of her own imperfections. I think she needs to get to know people who are deeply flawed (or “flawed”) in ways that the church most publicly disapproves of, and who are fairly open about it, and who have found reasons to participate in church anyway.
Comment by Anon for this — May 25, 2006 @ 9:12 pm
Confessions of a 30-something introvert:
1. If I know I have an important meeting that will be confrontational or will involve an impassioned argument, I rehearse it over and over and over again in the car (during my 50-min one-way commute, you get a lot of time).
2. We really hate “traditional-male” bonding — we hate golf, we hate ward basketball, we hate pool parties — not because we hate the activities themselves, but because you have to mix with people and you can’t predict the conversation.
3. Plus, most LDS introverted males gravitate to careers and interests that don’t include traditional LDS male conversation topics.
4. In small groups, where we can more easily establish our role, we can take over and shine — people think we’re funny, insightful, and really smart. See #1.
5. It’s no secret that in any ward, the (over-30) RS sisters *love* the introverted men (ok, not in that way). But trust me, extroverted guys — we know all of your wives’ secrets. Sometimes it’s because we seem harmless and they let down their guard. More often, it’s because when we’re ditching Sunday School with our wives and they talk with your wives, they don’t mind if we stand there quietly and listen about your wives’ C-section scars and labor horror stories and other personal information we won’t ever divulge (but we’ll never look at you the same).
6. If the sisters ever started inviting men to their book clubs, they’d invite the introverted guys. See #5, and the fact that we READ (because it’s better than talking to the EQ president about his handicap … yes, we were talking about golf).
7. Love email. Absolutely love it. Can manage 150-200 email a day. But when my wife went out of town for a week once, it didn’t even dawn on me to pick up the phone to check messages. My office phone was unplugged for a week and I didn’t notice (and neither did anyone else). My cell phone message says that I don’t guarantee to listen or respond to the message, but that if this is an emergency, just email me.
Comment by queuno — May 25, 2006 @ 9:25 pm
About the cheerleader . . . Maybe she masturbates, maybe she has an eating disorder, maybe she has sexual feelings toward girls, maybe she is strongly disinclined to ever be a mother…
Maybe she just thinks Church meetings are insipid and boring? Usually I do.
Comment by obi-wan — May 25, 2006 @ 10:19 pm
Now I want an “I love Western Washington” blog!!!!!!!!1
back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Comment by janet — May 25, 2006 @ 11:11 pm
Janet — Port Townsend so totally rocks. Travel tip: if anyone visits Port Townsend, stay at the old officer’s quarters at Fort Flager. They are super introvert palaces, with big front porches and Sound views and stuff. And they are cheaper than the fancier ones at Pt. Townsend.
Another secret: whenever I pass through North Bend, the theme from Twin Peaks plays through my head, and I think of Kyle MacLachlan, and feel a warm, special…pride. Among other things.
Comment by pele — May 25, 2006 @ 11:50 pm
Pele–Yep, Port Townsend is quite the nice place. I’m from the less monied Port Angeles, but we used to take school trips to Fort Flagler. Fantastic! And my hippie self does fit in slightly better in PT than my native and beloved (and a tittch redneck) PA.
OOH–remember the log lady????
Comment by janet — May 26, 2006 @ 12:12 am
queuno,
You are such a “mack-daddy.”
But as the other posts suggest, sometimes it’s just “a hard-knock life for a pimp.”
Comment by Seth R. — May 26, 2006 @ 6:11 am
Wow, I identify SO MUCH with many of the things that have been said. I am an introvert too, and that surprises most people because I put on such a good act. In fact, I’ve done some acting in community theatres, and I love that– because I have a script to follow. Spontaneous conversations are very mentally taxing to me. I was a great gospel doctrine teacher because I would write a “script” for myself; so it was a lot more like acting than people know. Unfortunately, my ward thinks that I’m such a bubbly and enthusiastic person now and it’s just not true. I keep getting calls to do things, and I’d rather eat poo.
Proud Daughter if Eve said
Holy cow, that is me to a T! Unfortunately, I have to be on the phone at work quite a lot. What that means is that when I get home, I rarely answer the phone. Aside from having two little ones to take care of who make talking on the phone SO hard (sometimes a blessing as much as a curse!) I am just BURNT OUT from having to be a “people person” all day. Ugh.
Comment by Beck — May 26, 2006 @ 8:46 am
I could have written this myself, except that I never served a mission. Way too introverted.
Comment by RLJ — May 26, 2006 @ 11:52 am
oops, sorry Janet I just read your post more carefully and saw the *Angeles.* Port Angeles is the Twin Peaks of the Olympic National Forest. Actually, pretty much everywhere outside of the Seattle metro area is Twin Peaks, more or less…but at least Pt. Angeles is cool cause you’re so deep in nature & by the water.
Of course I remember log lady. Log lady is us. Introverts would do well to use her tactic of carrying a log around. Whenever anyone asks us what we know, we could say “ask the log. It saw everything.”
I think I’m going to go out and find a nice log to carry around.
Comment by pele — May 26, 2006 @ 11:53 am
Test
Comment by Eve — May 26, 2006 @ 12:06 pm
Thanks again to all who responded and to the many interesting comments and perspectives.
Seth (#1), could very well be. (And although I am a die-hard Northern European introvert, on my mission I got to love Sicilian culture, the way people stood close to each other and talked with such emotion about soccer and politics and used exciting hand gestures kissed each other on the cheeks and would tell you exactly how they really were if you asked!—In the U.S., doesn’t matter if your whole family just died in a plane crash, the answer to the question, “How are you?” is always, always, “Fine.”)
Wendy (#12) raises that fascinating issue of social conversion. Although I’m a lifelong member, I’ve never really experienced it—and as you said, Wendy, I don’t really need the church for social interaction. In fact, I would say I’m a member in spite of the social interaction the church forces upon me :>
And thanks for the kind words.
Tanya (13), thanks for proselytizing for introverts. Heaven knows we need it.
Katya, it’s great to see you around here!
I found Leslie’s (#18) comments fascinating. I think I tend to rely on language to get by, even to be. This was really driven home to me when I was first in Italy and couldn’t speak the language. I felt as if I didn’t exist. Maybe we’re all uncomfortable when we’re forced to communicate in our non-preferred ways—which is why I such at Pictionary, for instance.
Pele (20, and all of your witty comments), a BIG lol! I too hate answering machines. Half the time I get so freaked out I have to hang up and think really hard about what it was I wanted to say and then call back, and I still stammer and sound worse and worse…and the other half the time I hang up and say, forget it, I’ll just call back later, and people learn to recognize me by the characteristic “click” I leave. (And is there ANYTHING WORSE than hearing a recording of your own voice? My voice sounds like it has spinach in its teeth. I’m amazed no one has pulled me aside and told me, very kindly, to button my fly and stop sounding like a nasally geek.)
Meems (21), I’ve threatened to bring books to social gatherings I have to attend with my husband, especially when I feel he’s dragging me to too many, but so far I’ve never dared actually do it. How’d it go? I’m kind of fascinated.
Hey, Lynnette (23), and other Anne Tyler fans, remember Macon Leary of _The Accidental Tourist_? He takes the same enormous book on every plane trip so that he won’t have to have a conversation with his seatmate. I completely agree that the prospect of the plane crashing is much less frightening than the prospect of being trapped in a difficult conversation for hours.
Katie, fmhLisa, Janet, and Aspen, thanks for thoughts from extraverts (and may I take this opportunity to express my eternal and undying gratitude to my extraverted mission companions who actually liked meeting people all day. They saved my butt.) I especially liked Katie’s observation:
“I have found a great deal of peace since I realized that I do not have to be everything I admire.”
I’ve found this freeing as well. I’m thinking now of a woman I knew in my last ward who was, possibly, the most extraverted human being I’ve ever seen. She was outgoing, warm, genuine, endlessly funny. I didn’t know her well, but I loved just watching her in action. Like Janet, she would make friends with cashiers and waitresses and even once, during a traffic jam, other drivers on the freeway—and there was nothing fake about it! It was amazing to me.
And Janet (24) makes an excellent point about extraverts I’d never considered—that we sometimes unfairly stereotype them as shallow, gullible, or stupid, which she and fmhLisa and Katie and Aspen obviously anything but. Thanks for the reminder to those of us who like to schlock the label “deep” on ourselves as an excuse to hide from the world.
Comment by Eve — May 26, 2006 @ 12:08 pm
Stephanie (27), I certainly hope so. If our salvation depends on attending ward activities, I’ll resign myself to hell now—it’s hands down the lesser of two evils.
Lynnette, Rob, and LAT bring up the problem of the fix-the-introvert death spiral, in which people target the introvert and attempt to engage her in more social interaction, which only makes her more and more uncomfortable and ultimately drives her away from the group that’s trying so hard to integrate her. It’s a classic example of missed signals.
EmilyS, Sue, Ben S.,and others, I think, bring up the problem of extricating oneself from social engagements without inadvertently sending the message that you are a snob or don’t like people, just that you’re worn out by them. We so need an introvert signal to that effect. I’ve long struggled between saying no to things and fearing I’ve hurt feelings and saying yes to things I really don’t have the energy to attend.
EmilyS and Quiet by Choice (42), Some jobs are killer that way. I worked with adults with developmental disabilities for a while. Essentially, I had to be a cheerleader all day, trying to get them to do things they didn’t want to (take their meds, brush their teeth, etc.) During that time I couldn’t do anything else with my life. I would spend my off-hours lying on the couch in a daze, drooling.
Anonymous (35) said,
Plus, I constantly reminded myself when it was all over I could hurry home and hide in a good book.
That thought has sustained me through many trials :> And I don’t blame you for bawling in the middle of Home Depot. Those huge stores full of too many complicated choices make me want to lie on the floor and beg someone to take my money away from me to release me from the horror. In our family we call this sensation “Walmart angst.”
Sue, Kiskilili, Aspen, pele, all those who erupt like volcanoes and find themselves ranting and raving about something and then go home and wonder what demon just possessed them—me too! For some reason sometimes I get in this weird pattern where I buttonhole the same people REPEATEDLY. I don’t even know why. Right now I’m doing it to my poor visiting teachers. I don’t blame them if they think I’m the most negative person alive and never want to see me again. I just can’t seem to shut up about everything that’s wrong with the church when I’m with them. Next time I go, I’m seriously wearing duct-tape over my mouth. It’s my only hope.
Melyngoch (48), will you move back here if I tell you that you left a very small earring on top of the dryer?
Quimby (54), lol!
Arya (56), I’ve had that experience too—I perform the outgoing role too well and people won’t let me stop performing it!! Arggh. Beck (64), in the article linked above Rauch talks about acting as a natural profession for the introvert.
I’m intrigued by the experiences all who miss the Northwest. I was born near Seattle, but my parents left when I was a toddler, and I’ve never been back. It sounds gorgeous. I agree that mountains + ocean has got to be the ultimate combination.
Comment by Eve — May 26, 2006 @ 12:11 pm
oh no! Are we done?? I felt like I was in the sandbox again. Safe, warm, gritty, with my friends the plastic bucket and spoon and tonka truck.
Comment by pele — May 26, 2006 @ 12:39 pm
Don’t forget the GI Joe with an arm missing.
Comment by Seth R. — May 26, 2006 @ 2:52 pm
pele (70)–Not at all. Just think of it as a little intermission. There’s no reason we can’t have Act II.
Comment by Eve — May 26, 2006 @ 4:44 pm
Eve–with several notable exceptions, most of the people I’ve been closest too in my life have been quite introverted. i wonder if it’s a yin yang thing, like with your mission companions. I probably enjoy the challenge of getting introverts to love me (snort–you should see some of the shy-except-with-me guys I dated, or my DH for that matter). Think of the endless clatter if we were all Chatty Cathy personified. Yuck!
Your traffic jam story cracked me up. I’ve been asked out at the gas station and supermarket A LOT; I imagine it’s because my friendly demeanor sends the wrong message to a certain type of guy. I forgot to add the scary “extrovert=sexually easy” equation to my other two. When a lot of guys I dated found out I didn’t kiss pretty much unless I was in love, they got mad.
For the record: my introvert friends ARE deep. Feel free to exploit as needed. After all, you’re doing the shallow introverts a favor by making everyone respect them via ssociation.
Comment by janet — May 26, 2006 @ 6:14 pm
Extraverts have saved my life. When I get deep into my dark, swirly world, there they are going “Come on over! we’re having tacos.” That’s what eats me about Seattle…no one comes out unless it’s sunny, so that means for nine months out of the year, too many of us are navel-gazing, and, after a certain point, you just can’t do that anymore. The extraverts who DO move here don’t seem to stay for long. I have watched many vibrant, chatty cathys cycle in and out.
Comment by pele — May 26, 2006 @ 7:06 pm
so what I’m saying is Janet, you need to move back.
Comment by pele — May 26, 2006 @ 7:06 pm
Seth R. we weren’t rich enough for GI Joes, but we had buckets of green army guys
Comment by pele — May 26, 2006 @ 7:08 pm
Pele–I’d be glad to oblidge. We’re slowly creeping westward (Salt Lake after 9 years in Missouri).
One thing I really LOVE about the Pacific Northwest is how friendliness works. Nobody thinks you’re a misanthrop if you don’t go visit all the time–they just assume you don’t want to get wet :). But, even though the people aren’t as outgoing as a lof of folks in the South, they seem genuine about their niceness. The introverts are nice. Everygody is NICE!! Not insipid, just so durned kind. Seattle must be the nicest city on the planet. Heck, people even let you change lanes.
And let’s be honest. I’m a granola and Seattle is my mothership.
Comment by janet — May 26, 2006 @ 8:19 pm
Oh goodness, my pain meds have affected my typing. Lo Siento.
Comment by janet — May 26, 2006 @ 8:20 pm
Threadjack warning… Please keep talking about how great Seattle is!!! We’ll be moving there in July - I love hearing it!
Comment by Leslie — May 26, 2006 @ 8:36 pm
Leslie, I’d love to talk about Seattle, but I have to put on my sandals (with socks, it’s drizzling), and take out the recycling. After that, we’ll have to take the Volvo to pick up my husband at the park-n-ride, because we have a date to do some compost digging. The slugs are really bad, and we have to set out beer traps this year, too (these aren’t Mormon slugs so the beer works on em reeel good). I’ll be pooped after all that, but if we have time to stop for espresso, maybe I’ll be awake enough to talk about Seattle….I should say something introverted so this isn’t a complete threadjack: I like books.
Comment by pele — May 26, 2006 @ 8:51 pm
Pele–SOOO glad you’re not introverted in cyberspace. You crack me up. Thing is–you’re right on!
Comment by janet — May 26, 2006 @ 9:00 pm
I’ve always liked Seattle. Two of my mom’s siblings live there. We’d always make a side trip every summer when we went to visit my grandpa in Richland, WA.
Yes, it is rainy. But that never bugged me much. I like rainy days. Being from Utah, rain was kind of a novelty to me. I imagine living there year-round might change my perspective.
I’ve heard locals say that the trick is to get over the mentality that you have to stay indoors when it’s raining. If you think that way, you’ll never go out. You just have to dress appropriately or take an umbrella.
Oh, and I absolutely love the coastline of the Pacific Northwest.
Comment by Seth R. — May 27, 2006 @ 8:14 am
I’ll jump back in and talk about Seattle! It’s true- you just have to go out in the rain. Having grown up there it was just part of life. I actually really miss the rain. Living in Phoenix was so hard for me because it was sunny ALL the time! The horror!
Trying to stay more on topic- my favorite book group was when we lived in the Seattle area. I love what pele said in #49 about how it’s the “metaphorical-couch-and-good book for the socially hungover”. Lots of really well read people up there!
Leslie- I think you’ll like Seattle. It’s so pretty and people really are friendly. I know several people who moved there (my parents included) for a job and ended up falling in love with it and never leave. We’re hoping to move back someday, even if it’s when DH retires!
Comment by Blue gal — May 27, 2006 @ 9:10 am
Thanks guys - Pele, you are hilarious. I’m done threadjacking and appreciate the comments! Back to the regularly scheduled programming.
Comment by Leslie — May 27, 2006 @ 12:18 pm
Seattle winter survival:
OK I’ll admit that having a winter sport really helps. If you can afford it, go skiing. And, take up knitting or a cool indoor craft you love. Honestly, in the evenings, when it gets dark around 4 and it’s wet (this is November-December) it’s really, really, hard for me to go out to book group or whatever. It just seems like I should be hibernating. So get into the film scene; there are so many great films out there.
Paint your walls. There is a line of paint called “Devine” which is color therapy formulated for the Northwest. No kidding. I painted the wall behind my couch “lemon drop” and it really helps.
Get one of those SAD therapy lamps, and shine it in your face while you have breakfast. That truly helps. My daughter loves it.
Then, when the weather is better, come alive, go on cool hikes, camp on the beach, and really, really tank up on it because you’ve got a long 9 months ahead of you.
There’s always eastern wa, though. A couple of hours, over the mountains, and bam, you’re in a sunshiny red state!
Comment by pele — May 27, 2006 @ 12:38 pm
great tips! We’re skiers and are looking forward to that. My husband had knee surgery this year so we went a season without skiing. We’re renting near UW but do have the option to paint - which I think is a great idea. We’ve been in an extremely wet Northern Idaho town for the last year so I’m thinking Seattle will be a great change because we’ll finally be somewhere where this is something to do and see! I’m leery of that much rain - I love sun… but we’ve got a year to live it up before heading back to our fav city - Boise. Thanks! I’m looking forward to it a lot more now. Once we move I may have to guest post for specific suggestions on the “best” and cheapest around Seattle!
Comment by Leslie — May 27, 2006 @ 12:57 pm
UW?
I just graduated from the University of Wyoming last year. You living up there?
Comment by Seth R. — May 27, 2006 @ 1:02 pm
Sorry - University of Washington. My husband will be starting his second year of med school next year - if you have heard of the WWAMI program? We’ve been in Northern Idaho this year.
Comment by Leslie — May 27, 2006 @ 1:10 pm
Well,
I suppose that’s OK too.
Speaking of bad weather. Laramie is at over 7,000 feet in elevation, gets about 7 months of winter and the wind averages at a constant mild 30 mph every day. Subzero temperatures in the winter too. No one even bothers with AC in the house during the summer. It rarely gets any warmer than the mid 80s.
But the common enemy of the weather makes for some of the nicest Mormons I know on the planet. Or maybe its just the culture. I don’t know, but that stake has something really special going on.
Comment by Seth R. — May 27, 2006 @ 1:18 pm
OK, so why do we never hear chronic complaining from people in truly harsh winter zones? That’s always been my question. For example, my husband was working in the Chicago area for a while last fall. It was steadily below freezing from sometime in November until the end of January. He said that “you get used to it.”
And, the people factor sounds similar to what you’re talking about in Wyoming.
I never get used to the chilly damp in Seattle. I’ve also had transplanted midwesterners tell me that the weather here is worse than in Winterland. Any insights? Total blatant threadjack here.
Comment by pele — May 27, 2006 @ 2:36 pm
Leslie — If you’re in the U-District or Ravenna you’ll be in a great place to survive winter, in my opinion. You are near the U, for one thing, so there’s always stuff going on. And, also by Scarecrow Video which has every obscure film you want, along with all the new ones. There are good wool shops in the neighborhood (if you’re into knitting). The University Village is a shopping center — I know it sounds cheesy, but it’s an outdoor european kinda place, with lots of plants, piped music, and places to eat. It also has the 2nd busiest Starbucks in the world. You can window shop in all the middle class shops like Pottery Barn & Restoration Hardware and dream about the dining set you’ll buy when your dh gets out of medical school…and residency…and.
If you’re wondering if life is really as crazy as “Grey’s Anatomy” it sort of is. I liked the show when Sandra Oh’s character was hunting around for a patient’s foot. That’s pretty much Seattle, in the winter.
Please guest post when the time comes. I’m sure there are loads of introverted Seattlites who haven’t spoken up yet.
Comment by pele — May 27, 2006 @ 2:46 pm
pele,
It’s because they’re rural-Republicans.
You want to whine, you can just go back to Massachusetts where you came from, cause we like our town just fine thanks.
Comment by Seth R. — May 27, 2006 @ 3:31 pm
hokay, Seth, I get it. But how about a blue-state town like Chicago? Why no winter-whiners there? Anyone from Chicago feel free to jump in, in case you really do whine.
Comment by pele — May 27, 2006 @ 3:50 pm
Pele–I lived in St. Louis for 9 years and MUCH prefer the Pacific Northwest. Summers in St. Louis are hellish–sure, it’s sunny, but it’s also so hot and humid and buggy that you take your life into your hands to go backpacking. Heatstroke and west nile–fun fun! By contrast, the northwest has mild summers perfect for the athletically inclinded–especially if your inclination is to climb a mountain. And Midwest winters have ice storms–dreadful!–plus despite the fact that it’s flat, nobody can drive in the snow. I much prefer W. Washington, where a blizzard or a downpour don’t cause grocery-store raids or 5 mph driving.
Of course, I’m sure if I’d grown up a midwesterner I’d like it. As is, I think Joseph Smith got Adam-ohndi-aman wrong. It’s clearly on the Olympic Penninsula
Comment by Janet — May 27, 2006 @ 7:15 pm
hee hee definitely God is in the Olympics! I remember this fantastic hike I took last summer — it wasn’t the Olympics, but it was in the hills around Stanwood (up near Bellingham & Canadian border). It was called Sugarloaf Mountain, and wasn’t that high in elevation, but it had this view of the San Juan Islands and the sound, and, I swear, a buzzy, electrical magic going on. We stayed there for hours just feeling it.
Comment by pele — May 27, 2006 @ 10:37 pm
Sorry to threadjack back to the original topic of this post, but this is a subject that is fairly central to my life in the Church. Our very concept of the work of God (bringing to pass the eternal of life of OTHER PEOPLE) seems to be so inherently extroverted, I’ve wondered if there is any place for an introvert in the celestial kingdom, let alone the Church here below. Such a thought would never arise in many other religions which have a contemplative tradition as well as a service tradition. Yet its very powerful service to others-orientation is one of the aspects of Mormonism that I find very appealing.
I found that Richard Bushman’s biography of Joseph Smith provided some fascinating historical perspective on this subject. As portrayed in Rough Stone Rolling, Joseph Smith was a total people person, way over on the extrovert side of the scale. Near the end of RSR he quotes an anecdote related by W. W. Phelps. Phelps suggested to Emma that she might prefer some time to eat at a little table once in a while just with Joseph as Napoleon and Josephine were said to have done to (Napoleon was famous for taking quick meals at a small folding table so he would have more time for work with only his wife allowed to join him — maybe he was a secret introvert despite all of his extrovertish behavior, conquering the world and all). Emma’s reply to Phelps was “Mr. Smith is a much bigger man than Bonaparte — he can never eat without his friends” (RSR p. 499).
I still haven’t come to a full resolution on this seeming conflict, but this is what I have so far. If we accept the proposition that every Church calling is of equal value provided that we fulfill it with real intent, there are actually quite a few places for introverts in the Church (and maybe by extension in the celestial kingdom):
teaching — teaching is a controlled interaction where one can have substantive interchanges where actually knowing something can be useful and which require preparation by oneself ALONE — these all play to an introvert’s strengths.
clerks and secretaries — necessary activities in our record-keeping Church that you can either do by yourself or where you aren’t expected to interact a lot with people.
music — as long as you don’t have to recruit people for choir — but even that is a structured interaction that can usually be managed by an introvert.
stake jobs — usually you don’t have to do anything, just show up and sometimes give talks (another structured interaction which can be managed by introverts — see comments above about actors, Ronald Reagan).
temple worker — what’s better than a calling where you’re not supposed to talk a lot?
activities committee — this may seem to be the extrovert’s paradise but think about it — if you are ON the committee you have to spend your time at the event running around taking care of things or in the kitchen. What better excuses to avoid exhausting small talk?
So maybe there are places for introverts in this apparently extroverted church whose first prophet was decidedly extrovert. Or maybe I’m just thinking this way right now because I am happily alone engaging in the very introvertish pastime of blogging?
Another pressing personal question — for those of you introverts out there who are happily connected to another introvert — how did you find each other?
Comment by JWL — May 28, 2006 @ 12:01 am
JwL–my DH is rather introverted but is freakishly good at the clerking gig. He’s got the general handbook memorized and knows all the ins and outs of running a ward from the paperwork angle. Even after he was released the new clerks consulted him every single week for 3 years. Plus he ran the mission office when he was a missionary.
Sure, he never receives the accolades that a more public figure would, but that’s what he’d prefer anyhow. He likes being holed up in the clerk’s office with his forms and his donuts, and the church couldn’t get by without people like him. DEFINATELY a place for introverts in the church. You throw people like me in a clerk’s office (not that they woud, since for some odd reason it’s a priesthood calling) and I’d accidentally sell the church to the vatican because I’d have gotten cabin fever in that little empty room!
Comment by Janet — May 28, 2006 @ 12:14 am
JWL — thanks for this interesting diversion, back to the original topic.
According to our Myers-Briggs personality indicators, I, an introvert, am perfectly matched to my husband, an extrovert, for various reasons. It has taken nearly a decade, but he willingly volunteers the idea that it’s time for me to have a “day” to myself, etc., and has learned to appreciate other strange things I do to cope with the world.
Also, I’m grateful there’s someone around who can pull me out of my cosmic spiral of unrelentless poetry…and say “let’s do the dishes.”
I think two introverts together might be an implosion waiting to happen.
Comment by pele — May 28, 2006 @ 12:22 pm
I think that should have been “relentless” or “unrelenting” but not “unrelentless.”
Comment by pele — May 28, 2006 @ 12:25 pm
Sugarloaf mountain!!!!!! Ah, I’m so homesick I could just spit.
Comment by janet — May 28, 2006 @ 10:27 pm
JWL has it pegged. I am reading a book on Myers-Briggs personality types in the ministry (Personality Type and Religious Leadership, Roy M. Oswald and Otto Kroeger, Alban Institute, 2001). They find that most of the ministers are extroverts. This gives the minister the important trait of wanting and enjoying visiting people. Extroverts draw emotional strength from interactions with other people, where as we introverts draw strength from alone time. The authors wonder if Jesus was an introvert (he often went off to be alone). They also point to Moses’ reluctance to be the deliverer as an indication that he was an introvert.
Introverts find pleasure in solitary pursuits, such as studying, preparing talks, planning, etc. Extroverted missionaries would be the ones who LOVE street contacting. Introverts are the ones who can carry the discussion when the convert asks a difficult doctrinal question, because they have probably studied the subject.
A former bishop in our ward was an over the top extrovert. His favorite phrase was “This ward needs to play together more often.” I was his introverted councilor and took the role of making sure that his vision was implemented.
Does anyone know of a study of Myers-Briggs in the LDS church? I wonder if it better reflects the population at large because we draw from the congregation for our leaders, or if certain types are preferentially called to leadership positions.
Comment by Floyd the Wonderdog — May 29, 2006 @ 7:01 am
Go ahead and spit, Janet, you’re the extrovert!!!! But remember, to enjoy the sights and sounds, we put up with wet, wet, wet grey all the livelong year!! It’s easy to forget. I’m not trying to be a wet blanket, I just want to make sure everyone packing their bags for Seattle remembers to bring lots of DVD’s and magazines and snacks to wait it out until the trails are firm enough to hike….
Comment by pele — May 29, 2006 @ 1:25 pm
Pele–The Penninsula is a lot sunnier than the city, especially right around Sequim. If you tire of the monochromatic greyness of Seattle, take off for my home stomping grounds for the weekend. Even if it’s grey you can always drive up to the ridge and play above the cloud line. Those mountain roads saved my spirits on several occasions (though I did knock the muffler off of my car in high school, since I thought logging roads were fun challenge not to be missed!).
Comment by janet — May 29, 2006 @ 3:49 pm
Well, ok, it would be sunnier above the clouds. Stop these good solutions because I won’t be able to complain anymore!!! I remember once taking what I thought would be a fabulous, introverted getaway to Lake Quinault. A friend and I scheduled four nights in a cabin, THE cabin where whatsername wrote “Ya-Ya Sisterhood.” Yep. THE cabin.
So, after a couple of days of SOLID rainforest rain, (it really is in the rainforest for anyone still reading this thread), and constant dripping, mildew odors, and trails oozing with underground water, we gave up and went home.
But we could have gone to Hurricane Ridge I guess. thanks for the tip, I’ll remember next time!!!
Comment by pele — May 29, 2006 @ 7:32 pm