Veggie Tales bugs me
My kids love VT, and I’m sure it’s not doing any lasting harm, but have you noticed that there are no admirable female characters (and hardly any female characters at all) in the whole VT canon?
(Also I should explain, as this is my first post, I’m not as angry as I sound, just being my delightfully polemic self. Thanks for asking. )
Here’s a list:
Madam Blueberry, a shallow materialist who only sees the light when all her stuff gets smashed.
Also a brief part as mayor who falls for the robot rumor.
Esther, you’d think this would be a good one, is a whiney vague mouse who has to be pressured and preached by Uncle Mortiki about every little thing.
Laura the carrot. Bit parts not worth mentioning.
Barbara Manatee, well, she’s a stuffed toy, and she has a nice bow, but I think she falls short in the admirable department.
That’s pretty much it. Girls don’t matter apparently.
Even characters that would normally be women are played by men. The elementry school teacher who teaches Bumbly Burg that rumors can be dangerous, a man. Aren’t something like 95% of elementry school teachers women? Couldn’t we at least get type cast?
The whole girl problem aside, I’m also bugged by some of the questionable moral tales they pull from the Bible. Don’t get me wrong, I love the Bible, but it’s not like we should start making moral decisions based on some of the behavior in there. (pounding nails into visitor’s heads, sleeping with your brother, these are generally a bad ideas in case you were wondering)
For instance. Josh goes up to the big wall and says, we’re God’s chosen people, he’s giving us your land, get out. Which in a biblical context can be an interesting and enlightening thing to study, but when Larry the Cucumber says it to the French peas, it feels like a very poor way to treat people and a really bad example of how to act when you need something. Just to scratch the surface.
Anyway, I could go on for days, but my kids still love Larry, and the silly songs rock, so despite my ambiguity, my kids will continue to sleep with their Junior Asparagras night light and the lovely Barbara Manatee my sister made, rose, bum patch and all.
Lisa-
You shoud re-post this, resurrect this now that you’re blog has a serious readership. I’ve got lots to say about Veggie Tales, and I’d love to hear what other people think about it too. Veggie-Tales bugs me for other reasons than the no-women thing–I hadn’t picked up on that one. So re-post this, or something like it, and let’s have a great discussion about it.
Posted by Heather Oman
Comment by Anonymous — April 18, 2005 @ 3:35 pm
Lisa,
I am new to your website, and have been sifting through your (and others’) posts for a few weeks now. My kids watch Veggie Tales and I had noticed the whole no women characters, too. I have mentioned it to a few people, and it didn’t seem to enrage them as much as me. I never knew anyone felt the same way that I did until I discovered this website. I AM NOT ALONE! I’ll be sending you a guest blog with some questions in it.
Comment by Laura — May 29, 2005 @ 2:59 pm
You know, I liked Veggie Tales just fine — especially all those crack-happy Silly Songs! — until we watched one about St. Patrick winning Ireland for Christianity.
In portraying the worship of the pagan Irish before Patrick came along, they had some guy exclaiming, “Oh, mighty pond scum! Thou art so powerful and … scummy!”
It struck me as a remarkably condescending treatment of nature-centered religions (and made me wonder how Bob and Larry would describe LDS beliefs and practices). I don’t want my girls (who are now just 2.5 and 1) growing up thinking it’s acceptable or “Christian” to be so disrespectful and dismissive of anyone’s faith, however different it is from their own. And maybe I’m nitpicky, but that’s the overriding message I got from that one….
I actually hadn’t noticed the lack of women in Veggie Tales videos — most of the Bible stories are about men, so the ratio seemed reasonable. But VT has bugged me since the St. Patrick episode and now I’ve got one more thing to gripe about, lol! Aaarrgghh!
(But I guess we shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water; no matter what anyone says, the Cheeseburger Love Song is genius.)
Comment by RCH — August 17, 2005 @ 1:33 am
[…] Veggie Tales bugs Lisa . Truth be told, it used to bug me, too. But for all of the annoying things about Veggie Tales, though, I personally find it a beautiful, beautiful thing. […]
Pingback by Feminist Mormon Housewives » If you like to talk to tomatoes… — July 21, 2006 @ 5:24 pm
Lisa, it would appear that further study may be necessary as to the purpose and use of the bible.
Yes the Bible is to be a source of reference, considering it is special revelation from God to us. No, we are not to do the things that God condemned, yet we see those things in the Bible for a number of reasons ( as part of God’s story of his love for us, to learn of God’s character, to learn how God would have us act, etc)
I’m afraid you have missed the boat. This is not a story about how to treat people, nor is it about what to do when you want something. On the contrary, it is about what to do when God wants you to do something. Even if it may seem strange. It is a story about obedience. As we are obedient to God, we begin to see God at work in our world.
A real world example. One day I felt that God wanted me to go out and buy a certain type of Bible (The Message) and take it to work. Now I assumed that it was for someone that I had had conversations about the Bible before and had suggested that she buy that Bible. Yet when I dropped into work with the Bible and struck up a conversation with the person that I thought I was suppose to give it to, it did not happen. Because I was in a rush, I left the Bible on the desk of my partner (we share offices), and went off to an appointment with the intent to return for it later that day. I did not. The next week, monday, when I returned, my partner was at her desk and I walked in and was going to take the Bible, but she motioned to me to leave it (she was on the phone). So I waited until she was off the phone and she joked that I was trying to give her a message. After we laughed, seriously she asked if this Bible was written in common language. I said yes. She asked if she could borrow it because she had been thinking about reading it. Lesson: Obedience to God leads to Him working in our world, not necessarily always in the way that we think he should.
RCH, it is important to understand the position that Christianity, more so God, places on truth (which the Bible being God’s word would be our ultimate source of truth). It is also necessary to define some words, tolerance and relativism.
Tolerance could be defined as the allowing for and accepting the fact that other people can have different opinions than you. Relativism on the other hand suggests that truth is what is true for you. This statement is a statement of “absolute truth”, meaning that this is the case every time, always. The problem comes with the fact that the Bible presents “absolute truth” as that which comes from God alone. Further, God has said there are no other gods other than Him. Relativism falls down at this point, because you cannot logically have a statement that says everyone can be true when one of those say only they are true.
So, it then comes to a choice do you follow the world’s ideology and accept that truth is found with each individual, ignoring God’s claims. Or, do you accept God’s statement of claim to having the only source of absolute truth…. to your story
It may be okay to be tollerant of another’s views, but the Bible leaves no room for the allowance of any other truth than God’s truth. Further, God is explicit that there is no other god than Himself. He even goes further and mocks those who worship things their own hands have created. Part of the purpose for the story was to show the absurdity of worshiping anything or anyone other than God alone. This is a very important lesson I want my children to learn.
Comment by cl — September 23, 2006 @ 11:31 pm
Lisa, Heather, Laura, RCH - get over yourselves!
Some one saw the need to bring the truth of God’s Word to kids in a way that is memorable and entertaining and they stepped up to the plate and you’re complaining about the lack of female carrots!!! I mean really!
It’s not the job of the Big Ideas team to bring up your kids (ie explaining the difference between standing up for what you believe as a Christian and being respectful of other people’s faiths) - that’s YOUR job!
What is most important? More female characters or kids getting to know the truth that God loves them, that Jesus Christ the Son of God died for them and rose again, that the only way to God is through Jesus Christ, that the Bible and the Bible alone is the Word of God and is literally and inherently true?
Cl was very patient in explaining what should be patently obvious to anyone who loves God and the Bible. Well done cl! Personally I think you ladies need to spend less time blogging and more time in the Bible.
Comment by Elaine — December 13, 2006 @ 11:11 am
Hum perhaps you need to spend less time blogging and more time in learning basic social skills. Such as love, generosity, and kindness. May I suggest “How to Disagree without being Disagreeable” by Dr. Suzette Elgin.
Comment by fMhLisa — December 13, 2006 @ 2:53 pm
I am so glad there is a veggie tales thread!!!
I’ve been singing “Barbara Manatee” all day.
This week has been my re-introduction to VT, and I’m in love! (I only have 2 boys, so the fact that there aren’t women doesn’t bother me, perhaps it balances out the mom they get all day)
Anyway, I was looking for a place to say I love the silly songs, and that Jonah has made me think more about giving people a second chance.
It’s also made me think about other times when prophets made mistakes (like Moroni said God told him to kill Pahoran (not a direct quote)). I wonder how this applies to us today?
Comment by jessawhy — December 13, 2006 @ 9:34 pm
Just looking over this thread again: Thanks for the primer on the difference between tolerance and relativism (she said with a roll of her eyes). But I’m not willing to concede the point.
A lack of complete truth doesn’t make a belief system completely untrue. Frankly, I don’t see the problem with people having a worshipful awe of nature; God created this world for us and we owe Him reverence for that. Does that make up the entire picture of who God is? Of course not. We know through scripture and revelation the importance not only of the creation but of the Atonement and resurrection of Christ and countless other pieces that instruct us in who God is. (As for the “absolute” truth, the complete and perfect knowledge of Him, none of us should expect to have that until the next life….)
But back to me, lol, and to the things I want my children to know: Let’s say I get to know Jane Schmoe, a paganist, and really get to love her and want the best for her in this life and the next; which approach do you think would be more likely to help her feel the Spirit? “So Jane, I hear you like trees. I mean, really, REALLY like trees. [*nudge, nudge*] Geez, what are you, some kind of hippie moron?” (A paraphrase of what the St. Patrick story might translate to in contemporary life.) Or maybe some other conversation in which Jane and I build on the common ground that life and creation are incredible gifts, and then go from there…?
My problem isn’t with Veggie Tales’ denial of relativism (which you rightly denounce), it’s with that episode’s distinct lack of respect for the light of truth that resides in every honest heart. It’s with the episode’s “Neener-neer, I’ve got the Bible and you don’t!” attitude that is anything but Christian.
I love the quote from Pres. Hinckley to those of other (or no) faiths: “We have come not to take away from you the truth and virtue you possess. We have come not to find fault with you nor criticize you. We have not come here to berate you because of things you have not done; but we have come here as your brethren…and to say to you: ‘Keep all the good that you have, and let us bring to you more good, in order that you may be happier and in order that you may be prepared to enter into the presence of our Heavenly Father.’”
That’s the attitude I want to instill in my girls. Not relativism, but respect for all the pieces of truth that may or may not have been collected yet into a whole.
. . .
And yes, I too love Barbara Manatee. And the Yodeling Veteranarian of the Alps. And the Cebu song. Pretty much every song on the Silly Songs Countdown except the Hairbrush one, oddly…. Go figure, lol.
Comment by RCH — December 14, 2006 @ 12:46 am
You know, I like veggie tales. But this post was enlightening and kind of made me mad! You’re right!! I’m feeling very indignant now. I mean, there have been more female characters since–
Ebeneezer’s granny, the easter angel, and that insipid little spoon-shaped vegetable (what is she supposed to be, exactly?) And jr asparagus’s mother. The only ones with real merit are Ebby’s granny and the angel. But Ebby’s granny is voiced by a male, I think. ]
Comment by sare — May 8, 2007 @ 11:46 pm
Get a grip, the reason why the world is like it is is because people always have to find something WRONG with it. It doesn’t suit you becasue there are not enough women chartacters get out from under your rock, the world wasn’t made for just you and those like you!
These are wonderful characters teaching children wonderful things lets stop looking so deep into everything and maybe teach your children something other than always getting the short end of the stick. I bet you’d be the type to sue over this too!
Comment by Kasey — September 29, 2007 @ 6:47 am
cl, Lisa presented a story from the Bible that is presented within VeggieTales, and if were used in a daily basis may not match our morals.
Your story about buying a Bible is nice though. I saw some ducks in the park yesterday.
What is this Relativism stuff? Yea, I can accept what is true for God is absolutly true (at least for our God). However, you’re making a few presumptions.
(I am not saying you are incorrect, or that any one of the following conditions isn’t necissarily met, but seems a stretch to me.)
1) That there is in fact a single solitary truth, and not multiple equally valid truths,
2) That we are presented with the Truth i.e. the Bible is imperically true. But it does contain inaccuracies (factually inaccuracy: rabbits don’t chew cud - Leviticus 11:6).
3) You come to the correct interpretations based on #1 (and if anyone ever comes to an untrue interpretation, #1 isn’t correct, otherwise you are not saying the Bible contains the Truth, but that your personal interpretations based someone’s translation of the Bible is the Truth),
4) You have the full version of the Truth. My understanding is neither the Book of Mormon (disclaimer: I’m not Mormon) , nor the Old Testament, nor the New Testament are the same. One day, there may even be a New and Improved Testament.
There is also Biblical support for more than one god. (Just one of many many examples: Exodus 12:12 - “I will … bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am God.”) Unfortunately, the passage you refer seems to be slightly mistranslated in The Message. From virtually any other translation, it states basically “You shall have no other gods before (or besides) Me.” This is not the same as “There are no other gods besides Me.” Also, ancient religions may have worshipped the same God, merely used a different name for Him. (Have to say, from this limited peak at The Message, I don’t like it. The Ten Commandments are present as sentences; “You will not … “. They are not sentence fragments; “No … “. Ten Commandments are kinda important to get right, too.)
Comment by Roguetech — February 6, 2008 @ 12:50 pm
I can’t believe you are picking out such trivial things (some more trivial than others). There definitely are worse cartoons out there and I would much prefer my kids watching VT than many of the other options out there. If you can direct me to a cartoon series that would capture the attention of my kids and teach better morals, let me know. Oh, and if you label yourself as a feminist, it is much easier to pick out scenarios in life where there are not a lot of female influence. I don’t think the people who came up with VT really were thinking, “Women aren’t as good as men, so let’s not put any good women characters in.”
Comment by Jared — April 10, 2008 @ 10:40 pm