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1. Trigger warning: in no way shape or form do I want anyone to get any ideas from this, but at the same time I feel the need to discuss my experience to show how it has been, for me. If you might be triggered, please do not read.

   I cut. I’m almost 35, and it started about a year and a half ago, right after starting therapy. Had just learned I was bipolar w/a variety of anxiety disorders, and stuff.

   I don’t do it very often.

   Much as I am about fighting mental health stigma, I have not revealed my cutting on my blog. My SIL who posts here sometimes knows about it, but she and spouse are the only family who know, as far as I know.

   Just about any resources I see for and about this are about teens and very young adults; nothing about older people or women, who start in their thirties . . .

   There’s a level of internal pain that feels trapped, and cutting feels like I can express it. Oh, you also might want to post “trigger warning” in your post, so that it might warn off those who might have this behavior triggered by reading about it. Not that that should cut off discussion of it, it’s just something that should be posted. That applies to the eating disorder discussion as well.

   I do feel alone in the cutting thing, altho I did not hide it on my wrist (much) because I felt, I knew I wasn’t doing it for attention, but I wanted to fight the shame of it.

   I also felt that people would feel NOT hiding it would be an imposition on them, if they noticed, and that they would judge that I WAS after attention; I wasn’t, but I wasn’t going to hide it for other people’s comfort; I really really wanted to fight that.

   But now, I am feeling more like hiding.

   There are also . . . well, twice, I took a lit match, blew it out and pressed to the inside of my calf. That was . . . bad.

   Ok, rather than labeling, I guess I should say it was a harmful thing to do, rather than the loaded word of “bad”. That “bad” word, even when people apply it to the behavior, pretty much always goes in my mind as, I”M BAD.

   That’s not helpful, either.

   What I think would be really helpful is to not be judged. Of course, people don’t really know what to DO with this, if/when they notice or are told . . . I’d suggest encouraging the person to get help, of course, and don’t encourage the behavior either, but I’m not sure how one would discourage it safely, either, without making the person feel bad or judged or patronized. I’m talking more about adults, here, than younger people.

   To be accepted as someone with struggles that might seem harsh or extreme, but that I am a person going through something, that you may not understand, or be able to hear stuff about, but don’t reject me either; if you notice cuts or other harm, and don’t know that you could handle being a shoulder to cry on about it, let me know, but also say, hey, this is something you are struggling with, and I’m not rejecting you or your struggle . . . . I really don’t know what advice to give about how to handle it if you see or notice someone you care about doing this, except for what I’ve said above . . . do what you can to help them feel accepted as a human, imperfect person with struggles; you can accept their struggle with it without finding the behavior acceptable . . . I think people might fear that if they accept the person’s struggle, they are accepting or approving of the behavior.

   The Church hasn’t really had anything to do with this, except for me feeling rather uncomfortable with fresh “lines” on my wrist.

   Although I did receive access to professional mental help, through the Church; I was hooked up with a psychologist and psychiatrist in the public sector, ie, not LDS Social Services.

   Payment is a different matter that I don’t know if I’ll go into here, but I do know that the Lord was very much involved in this process of me finally getting help after so many years, decades even, of struggling and not knowing what was wrong.

   My experience with people in the church has been that, even though they say they’ll be understanding and accepting, that after a year, to a year and a half, they judge harshly, wrongly, hurtfully, and think that, oh, well, you’re mentally ill, so you can’t help it that you are these things we are judging you for.

   I say that, if I have and am trying as hard as I can, that if I fall “short” of how people are supposed to be, socially and interactively and stuff with people, and in other areas, that the fact that I am mentally ill explains that, and if I’ve tried as hard as I can, then there SHOULD NOT BE ANY JUDGEMENT on me not being what they think or how they think I should be . . . even if I HAVEN’T tried as hard as I could, ideally, they’d be Christlike at least partially and accept and love me anyway, but I guess that’s too much to ask, even trying AS HARD AS I CAN.

   I’m awkward and unpolished. The failure here (the failure being their harsh, incorrect, etc. judging of me) is on them, and their lack of character or whatnot, since I know I tried as hard as I could, to interact and push through my fears.

   It’s like they are judging a lame horse for being lame, and for browsing in a field that is different than the one they think I should be. I am working on things and just wish people would quit judging for t hem not seeing the changes THEY want to see; there is so much change going on with me that I’m not sure people could or would see; there is so much going on at the most basic, basic levels of functioning, or lack thereof, that a person can struggle with . . . . building a person from semi-scratch, as I call it, is a difficult proposition . . .

   Anyway. Sorry to go on so long there. Hopefully I can add more to this and the depression discussion. I hope this was helpful to someone, anyway.

   Comment by sarebear — January 12, 2007 @ 10:35 pm

2. I’m a bit of a perfectionist, my mother is a perfectionist, and my father, while not a perfectionist, is a high achiever from a family of high achievers. Depression also runs in my father’s side of the family. I began to develop a borderline case of anorexia when I was about 12 years old. About this time, my sister (2 1/2 years younger than me) was starting to exhibit symptoms of depression.
   As background, most of my relatives are on the large side. My sister and I were both small as children, but when she went on medicine for her depression, it caused her to gain a lot of weight.
   I was a gymnast at the time, and I was the largest girl on the team. I was also the oldest, and the only one who had gone through puberty, but all I saw was that I was the largest. (I was 4′6 and 75 lbs.)
   I began to eat less, and when I did eat, it was always the lowest calorie option I could manage. I was so afraid of getting fat. My mother was always trying to lose weight, and wasn’t successful, so I was afraid that if I gained weight, I wouldn’t be able to lose it. I was a high achiever at school, and as a result, I was unpopular. I thought that if I became beautiful, I would have friends. In my 12 year old mind, beautiful meant thin.
   My turning point was a few months later when I began investigating the church. A friend invited me to come to girl’s camp. While there, I felt the Spirit, made friends, and learned of God’s love for me. I learned that my worth was intrinsic, and not tied to the size of my body. Not only did I learn this, but I gained a spiritual witness.
   Over the next few months, I allowed Christ to heal my soul. He gave me a new heart and helped me see myself as He sees me.
   Sometimes I still see myself with more fat than I would like. I know I’m not fat by any definition of the word (I’m 5′3 and 110 lbs), but Satan tries to use that old weakness to get me down sometimes.
   I know that Christ helped me overcome my problem, and I know that He can help others, too.
   Incidentally, when I was 14, I developed hypoglycemia (not as a result of the anorexia; it runs in the family). It’s a pain sometimes, but I see it as a blessing. It stops me from returning to anorexia because I can’t function when my sugar gets low. I have to eat on a frequent and regular basis.
   I was going to post this anonymously, but I’m adding my name to it in the hopes that by owning up to my past struggles, it will help remove the stigma.

   Comment by Keri — January 12, 2007 @ 10:38 pm

3. I don’t mean for my last post to sound simplistic, or to belitle anyone else’s struggles. I thank the Lord that I found His help before I descended any deeper into anorexia. I think that if it had gone on longer, I would have had a much harder time coming out of it.

   Comment by Keri — January 12, 2007 @ 10:43 pm

4. I didn’t think it sounded simplistic! Your experience is illuminating, educational, and inspiring.

   I have times of feeling really in touch with the Lord, and my faith, and stuff, but apparently part of my struggle is to be out of touch with that alot; I still have my faith, but there’s so many times the waves of what I’m feeling overwhelm any possibility of discerning the still small voice, and spiritual stuff.

   But that doesn’t make experiences like yours simplistic, or offensive to one like me who often is so battered and drowned by emotion and states of mind/being in the illness that seem to preclude spiritual connection at times. I just hang on and try to tell myself the Lord is at the helm, and I’m just rather seasick at the moment, when that happens (lol). See, that might sound kinda simplistic too; it certainly doesn’t sum up the struggle, or the ways I find light on some occasions. So while I understand your fear of it sounding too simplifying, rest assured from ME, anyway, that I am glad you were brave enough to share, and put your name.

   For any that need remain anonymous, I completely understand that too, and admire the bravery it takes to speak up in any manner.

   Comment by sarebear — January 12, 2007 @ 10:59 pm

5. Thanks, sarebear. My heart goes out to you, and I’ll include you in my prayers tonight.

   Comment by Keri — January 12, 2007 @ 11:03 pm

6. sarebear,
   thank you for having the courage to share your story. I just recently attended a lecture on cutting and the professional did mention that he had clients in their thirties that started in their thirties with the cutting. This is a symptom that is really on the rise among teens and women.

   I was recovering from bulimiaand depression at age 24 while serving as Young Women’s President — terrible timing.

   I recently spoke to the director of LDS Social Services regarding starting 12 step programs to address eating disorders, the way the church had begun to address drug and sexual addiction. We went round and round and he basically said that I would be hard-pressed to get the Brethren to address this issue due to the liabilities it addresses. This is one of my biggest issues with the culture of the church. They want to be in on the way you think, what you wear, when you become sexually active but when all of this messaging creates faulty thinking in the form of addiction, mental illness and disorders they turn a blind eye.

   We as humans seem to have a limited capacity for seeing mental illness through the long haul, it is a journey, with gifts and deep valuable lessons. I feel that the church expects us to be graceful in a freefall. The average recovery time for eating disorders is approximately 5 years. (according to the professionals.)

   Comment by LAGirrrl — January 12, 2007 @ 11:29 pm

7. Trigger warning.

   I used to cut. I knew that God wanted me to be happy and that cutting was a temporary fix that was making me more unhappy… but it was really hard to give that up. It was hard to muster the faith that something would be there to replace it, and in many cases, there really was nothing there. I have spent so many hours curled up in a ball sobbing and knowing that a knife would make me feel so much better, and praying for the strength to get through it, one minute at a time. It took me a long time to finally “quit,” I kept going back to it, and even now, two and a half years after my last relapse, it’s still a temptation.

   One thing that really, really bothered me as I was recovering, and still bothers me as I try to help others with this problem, was that I could find info and self-help resources just about everywhere EXCEPT at church or church-related places. I searched LDS,org over and over for some mention of SI but found nothing, None of the LDS websites had any information on it. (I grinned and thought “this is so awesome!” when I saw this post.) It is never discussed in RS, nor was it discussed in YW when I was there. While eating disorders haven’t received a lot of attention from the church, they’ve received infinitely more than SI has, and it was so frustrating for me to go through the process of quitting without the comfort and help that I knew could potentially come from more awareness in the church (especially the leadership). If I there had been even a self-help article in the Ensign or New Era I wouldn’t have felt like I was the only “good mormon girl” with this problem, which would have helped immeasurably.

   Eventually I gathered the courage to share my struggle with my closest friends, and found that some of them had the same struggles. Over time, I found that an alarming number of YSA’s I was close to had the same struggles. I felt like I couldn’t talk to my bishop about it, and that was compounded when my best friend told me that her roommate (who also cut) had gone to her bishop about it, and had been threatened with church discipline (!) if she didn’t stop. So many of our youth and young adults struggle with this. About 6% of the US population self-injures, with the majority of those being girls in their teen or young adult years, and yet the church has said nothing to comfort these people or to raise awareness so that things like the above example don’t happen. I love the church, I’m not trying to criticize, but I think this is an area where “perfecting the saints” can be improved.

   I started cutting because of severe childhood emotional abuse from my parents. It was literally the only way I could see for me to feel in control of my messed-up emotions, and although it was dangerous and unhealthy, I think it also taught me that it’s okay for me to have needs. Through bandaging my wounds I started to learn how good it feels to take care of myself. It gave me a way to release all the angry, sad, abandoned feelings I had inside, and still succeed in school and lead a relatively normal life. It probably saved my life. I’m not proud that I did it, but I’m glad that I was able to learn from it and move through it.

   It was also a powerful object lesson for me. I was trying to heal my emotional wounds with my blood. It worked temporarily, but it wasn’t doing any good in the long-term. I learned that the blood of Christ has a lot more power to heal my pain in the long-term. I don’t know whether that would help anyone else, but for me the comparison of what I was trying to do by cutting and what Christ wanted to do for me was extremely powerful. It still amazes me how God can take bad situations and make them into teaching tools. And it amazes me that as broken as I am, I’m still loved.

   Comment by Nonymus — January 12, 2007 @ 11:32 pm

8. Well, I suppose I have an eating disorder, but it is that I eat too much….I love to cook and I like eating what I cook. I would kill for that 5″3″ and 110lbs…Be happy with it my dear, it’s a wonderful weight. We have a sister in our ward who is 5′1″ and for years she weighed 103 lbs. Last year she was griping because she had gain 2 pounds. Here she is, a mother of four children, (all grown now) and she is griping about 2 lbs. I told her to “hush Up” and be grateful that she hadn’t gained 80 lbs….I think that sometimes we don’t know how blessed we are..

   Sarebear - I don’t think people are judging you as much as you think they are…My daughter is always worrying about people judging her and I tell her to stop worrying about what other people think….Be strong and just take care of yourself and keep going to the doctor if you can. A friend of mine had a son that cut and once they got him on medication for depression, he started getting better. That doesn’t mean he has totally quit cutting himself, it means that he is better. He had problems he could not express and he cut himself as a way of expressing them. He is learning how to talk now and doing better. Good luck, my heart is with you.

   Comment by Lucy Stern — January 12, 2007 @ 11:33 pm

9. Lucy,(#8)

   Please, please, please do not minimize another’s issue with their height/weight ratio…the dis-order is not in the numbers but in the thinking. That only perpetuates the problem. Ack! I’m reading your post further….this is exactly the S#@* that minimizes another’s process…”I don’t think people are judging you as much as you think they are…” You cannot wish, cajole or “fluff” up someone elses personal experience. Your experience is your reality no matter how many people patronize your genuine expressions of crying out!

   Comment by LAGirrrl — January 12, 2007 @ 11:46 pm

10. sarebear, Keri, LAGirrrl, Nonymous, thank you for your willingness to share your experiences and insights with us. I’ve been blogging for 5+ years, but I’m more anxious about this thread than any other. I really do want it to be a safe space for sharing. As such, I hope that future commenters will be  careful, thoughtful and supportive when responding to someone else’s experiences (as you have been). I’ve already learned a lot, and am hoping to listen, learn and understand a lot more as this thread progresses.

    Comment by JohnR — January 13, 2007 @ 12:04 am

11. I am so grateful for this post. I think all of the posters have been very brave to share their difficult experiences with us. Nomynous in #7 said that the church doesn’t talk much about SI. It’s true, I have never heard of it before. I did have a roomate in college with scars on her wrist. She told me she used to cut herseslf. I had no idea what she meant. Reading these stories has helped me understand, just a little better what that means for someone. (my roomate was sexually abused as a child by someone very close to her).
    For me, eating disorders make sense, the physical act for a physical goal, but SI didn’t make much sense until I understood the emotional goals behind it. I hope that soon there is more information about this very serious problem available to church members. I think awareness can only help youth and adults in this sensitive area. I welcome ideas of how those of us who don’t struggle with these particular issues can help (if we can help) those who do struggle.

    Comment by jessawhy — January 13, 2007 @ 12:27 am

12. (I am unfamiliar with the term “Trigger Warning.” I am not sure if what I say will be one, I do mention cutting a little)

    it used to was always about food, and denying myself it, or being completely overpowered by it. I would barely eat for days at a time before going on wild night long binges into oblivion.
    It was bad in high school. But I think it was worse as a missionary. I never have felt so damned. I was very controlled, the facade was superb, it was all in secret, but I always felt the need to confess (not ask for help, but confess, always to a religous authority).

    I never cut, a in actually cut into my flesh. But I thought about it all the time. Still do, to a degree. I think it is something different than what is usually termed ‘cutting,’ I dont know… I have not had any professional help for some time, but for me it is the mental image of cutting the hurting parts out of me. I think about it all the time when the pain gets real bad in my heart or in my mind… I could never actually cut out what needs to be cut out in order to heal.
    See, my obsession with food disapated… but in a way, that was a safer way to deal with the pain. Now I no longer have the binging and the starving to be layers between me and the real pain… I was numb before. It hurts alot now.
    I should probably get help again, but it really did seem pointless the last time. And I didn’t like the meds.

    I am not sure that talking about it like this is good… it can really bring out alot of dark stuff, and I have come along way…

    Comment by anon — January 13, 2007 @ 12:44 am

13. I wrote a speech about SI for a college class, and my last point was that you *can* help. Sorry for two long posts in a row, but I’d like to post a summary of what I found helpful and unhelpful from others.

    Refusing to spread misinformation about cutting (e.g. “she’s just trying to get attention,” “teenagers just do it because their friends do it,” “it’s a half-hearted suicide attempt,” etc) can help a lot. Knowing the correct information and sharing with others when appropriate (e.g. SI isn’t usually about attention or popularity, it’s an attempt to make life bearable, which is the opposite of a suicide attempt, and it’s a way for people to calm their emotional pain) can also help. Even if you don’t feel like you really understand SI, simply being aware of the correct information can make you a much better friend and listener to a “cutter.”

    Don’t allow yourself to add to the stigma or shame of cutting. Also, don’t feel like you have to step in and solve the person’s problems. Cutting is a chemical addiction that is difficult to quit, and if you make their addiction your personal project, you won’t be helping anyone. I couldn’t quit until I was doing it for myself, not for anyone else. Because cutting is often a reaction to sexual or other serious abuse, a friend won’t be able to “fix” the underlying problems, either. That will take time, and probably the help of professionals.

    What you can do is provide a listening ear when it’s needed, and unconditional friendship. Even a little kindness or occasional invitations to your home or to go out with friends can make a big difference, especially if these small things are coming from several different people. Help the person feel loved and included. Be sincere and genuine. I speak from experience when I say that one person, doing small things, can make a huge difference. My RS president was unaware that I was cutting, but she saw that I sat alone at church, and made a point to greet me by name every single week, and say that she was glad that I had come. I could tell that she really meant it, and some weeks that was the only thing that kept me coming to church. Her love helped me stop cutting.

    Comment by Nonymus — January 13, 2007 @ 12:52 am

14. Margaret Young wrote a piece for T&S recently discussing her daughter’s struggle with anorexia. It’s a good companion piece with this one, I think.

    Good topic, John.

    Comment by Janet — January 13, 2007 @ 1:23 am

15. Lucy, I appreciate the kind sentiment and the care behind it. I think I understand what you may have MEANT by the people may not be judging you like you think, or as much.

    I do tend to have perception problems, but sadly, this year alot of my perceptions of good relationships with family, and so-called “friends”, were shattered by revelations of being judged, horribly.

    The so-called friends, were the bishop’s wife, among others; she was one of my visiting teachers. I am still trying to pull the knife out of my heart that was placed there last July; I attempted to work things through with her, but she would not engage with me about the issues, she seemed to see herself “above” working through anything with me.

    She wasn’t the worst offender in that mess, but she was a large part of it. I have been crippled with self-doubt and other things since.

    Anyway, I know I didn’t have to explain, and I think part of what was being objected to was feeling as though I was being put in a position where an explanation would be needed to answer what you said, to show that my situation and experience really is what I say.

    I don’t think you necessarily MEANT to do or say that, but I think that may be how it came across.

    Anyway, thank you for the kindness and concern, Lucy.

    Thank you everyone as well for your kind comments and thoughts and prayers.

    One of the things that makes this even harder, this mess from last July, is about 4-5 months into our friendship/visiting teaching/teachee relationship (they SAID they were my friends, too . . .) is I said hey, you know, mental illness can be ugly, I am often and easily judged by people, but I’m going to open up a bit, and SHOW you some of how it is for me, but I’m scared that you are going to judge me and, a year down the line or whatnot, end up disliking/hating me. THEY responded with, “We can handle it.” (not that that necessesarily meant they COULD, but I figured I’d at least get some EFFORT at understanding from them, not the very outcome I had feared and predicted . . . .)

    Okay, I’ve probably pulled things too far away from the cutting and stuff, but this judgement issue, is a HUGE part of a problem, and is a HUGE part of why the church society, the society/socialing/relating/interacting with people from church, at church or elsewhere, can be a huge problem in regards to these issues.

    It seriously makes me want to hide and be a hermit for the rest of my life, and not try anymore. You hear the Conference talks on befriend the friendless, when saw we thee a stranger, if ye have done it to the least of these, my brethren, ye have done it unto me . . . and then people think, someone ELSE will reach out to her, or it’s too hard, or whatever.

    If it were easy, there’d not be the need that there is . . .

    Comment by sarebear — January 13, 2007 @ 2:39 am

16. anon (#12) YES! My mission and aspects of it were the most horrific experience for me by far. I had a severely abusive Mission President, if I had been in a corporate atmosphere I would have had a harassment case, easily. He would hold out my arms and scold me for adding any weight! He was very possessive and constantly asking me monthly in interviews if any of the Elders were coming on to me and/or if I was masturbating. (It feels good to tell you all that, phhew) The abuse was so severe that I had the psychological scarring equivalent to an incest survivor, although he never sexually touched me. It was like being in a very controlling affair, refer to the power/control wheel of a dv victim. At the time I was so into my bulimia that I couldn’t be a self-empowered woman and the more I stood up for myself or let my sassy, fun self shine the more he squaushed it, even threatening to send me home or infering that I should just go home and pay tithing as that was all I was righteous enough to handle. Mind you I was very obedient except to contact home (1x) when I started to have IBS and needed some medical attention.

    My mission had some of the darkest days of my journey in them. I then went on to marry and of course you can imagine how these events effected who and why I married. I still occasionally have nightmares about my MP and can look back and see a long cycle of PTSD. Thanks for letting me share that…that was very therapeutic.

    Comment by LAGirrrl — January 13, 2007 @ 3:44 am

17. I found my powerpoint slides from the lecture I attended thought I’d post the data for further insight.
    SELF INJURIOUS BEHAVIOR presented James D. Buck MS www.centerfordiscovery.com

    CATEGORIES:
    Major: eye enuclearation, castration, limb amputation

    Stereotypic: repetitive/rhythmic acts, i.e….head banging, hitting, self biting

    Superficial/Moderate: hair pulling, skin scratching, nail biting

    Self Injury Defined: The act of damaging seriously by cutting off or altering an essential part of the body.

    Superficial/Moderate
    Compulsive Subtype:
    skin cutting
    carving
    burning
    needle sticking
    bone breaking
    interference with wound healing

    SELF INJURY is Self Preservation, Communication, and Control

    SELF INJURY is dangerous and must be treated with a sense of urgency, yet in most cases it is NOT a suicide attempt!

    Personal Characteristics
    -People Pleaser
    -Perfectionism
    -Over-personalization
    -high standards for self
    -Can not put words to feelings
    -(Alexithymia-no feelings)
    -Keeps emotions and thoughts to self
    -Internalizes/suppress/repress emotions
    -Unable to verbally express feeling content
    -capable of ignoring or enduring physical pain

    EMOTIONAL STATE: Anxiety(panic), Anger/rage, Irritability, Fear, Confusion, Loneliness, Emotional Numbness

    PHYSICAL STATE: physical numbness, panic symptoms, headache, nausea

    PSYCHOLOGICAL PROCESS of STRESS:
    -Poor Stress Management may appear similar to PTSD

    -Decrease in:
    serotonin, increase in sleep disturbance, decrease in reasoning abilities

    -Increase in:
    dopamine, increase heart rate/blood pressure, may teach prioritizing, learning of reward-directed behavior as well as predictions, associated with Brain Pleasure Centers, Low Levels increase Social Anxiety.

    Adrenalin/Epinephrine: increases heart rate, stoke volume, dilates pupils and
    Norepinphrine: activates the Central nervous System re: fight or flight, impulsively and attention.

    SUFFERERS GOAL:
    Create pain
    Stabilize Fragmentation
    Distraction
    Calming
    Release
    Draw Blood (Numbness, Alexithymia)

    EMOTIONAL RESULTS
    -Compulsions acted out to reduce mental tension
    -Physical harm distracts the mind
    -Emotional experience difficult
    Comfort, self soothing, calmness via the Opiod Peptides of Endorphones and Enkephalin.

    SI therefore, may be considered an addiction-like coping strategy.

    Comment by LAGirrrl — January 13, 2007 @ 4:03 am

18. I have many of those, but not all of them. I just have this fear that people will think SIers all have to be the same.

    I don’t know why I’m telling you this, lol. That’s good info.

    LaGirrrl . . . I am SO SO sorry that your MP did that to you.

    I can’t even begin to imagine how hard it was to endure that and to feel like you had to hide it. I CAN imagine, since I’ve had things I’ve felt I had to hide, and then revealed, I CAN imagine a little of how it might’ve felt for you to tell us that; thank you for your courage and example and for being so kind and helpful.

    Sara

    Comment by sarebear — January 13, 2007 @ 4:20 am

19. No.16 LAgirrrl

    that was horrendous having seved a mssion my MP’s were the most kindest and loving i could ask for it never occurred to me it could be otherwise!! to be honest i would make a serious complaint to someone a tChurch offices this has affected you and still does or why not contact your MP and tell him how you felt about what he did etc if only by letter. i realy feel for you that you had to go thru that and so far from home too. youi didn’t serve in sacotland did youa s a friend of mine went thru a simialr experiece not as harsh as yours tho

    on the topic a bit more - i work with teenagers who self harm and have eating disorders and they struggle, My own dd almost slipped into ti it after some bullying at school but i was abl;e to pick up the warning signs and nip it in the bud if a talll poss thankfylly there is helpout there especialy here in the souith west of england but it does take years to heal if ever, fully.

    Also, i do not mean this to offend anyone, but one thing i have noticed in schools here in the uk that it has become a bit of a trend to self harm and there was some copycat behavior going on at one school i woeked in that has died down now as the fad wore off and those with truly seriouis problems contiunued to do it but clearly needed help. is that a simialr thing in the US do you think??

    Debra UK

    Comment by debra — January 13, 2007 @ 5:57 am

20. I am a cutter. I have been one to self mutilate off and on since my teens. Different ways, now it is just cutting. The mutilation stopped when I was in college and developed an eating disorder. I have to be really careful about hanging out with people obsessed with their weight or the feelings come back from the eating disorders. I also have to be careful about hanging out with guys who feel the need to point out perfect women they see (for some reason always my single LDS guys…)

    I have found the church less than helpful. First though, I should say that I am not sure if it is their job to be helpful in this area. I have been to LDS social services and found them lacking. I see a private therapist who helps a ton. A few people at church know, but since I only cut the tops of my thighs no one sees unless in most settings. Of the people at church who know I have gotten some support and some not so nice comments. I think the best comment was “that was a really dumb thing to do”. As if I didn’t realize it wasn’t healthy-or normal for that matter. That was less than helpful. I have determined that this is one of those things that most people both inside and outside of the church don’t understand.

    I cannot say that I have overcome the problem, but it has lessened. For me partly it was just about surrounding myself with people who don’t judge me. I am careful to avoid people who for various reasons bring out that side of me. In my case, I have chronic physical pain and cutting can distract me from that for even a few minutes. Also, it gives me a way to have control over the different types of pain that are so out of my control. For once I get to say what hurts and where.

    John, thanks for tackling such topics. I am really enjoying your blogs and growing from them a great deal too.

    Comment by anon — January 13, 2007 @ 6:40 am

21. Debra UK and sara– Thanks for your concern, it truly is about 85% healed–I never went to anyone higher up as I didn’t even know the abuse had occured until it began to unfold in my marriage. I finally went to talk to my Bishop (12 years later) about these things just as a way to be heard. I was inactive at the time and was hoping that by purging myself of these thoughts I might begin to find peace while sitting in church buildings. I was very specific with him that I was in his office to only be listened too. I’m very specific with Priesthood leaders as to what I need and can handle from them after I found my voice again, in that way I’m still fragile. I still fear contact with my MP, he was spiritually and emotionally that evil for me. I would never write a letter or make contact, ever. It took me too long to acknowledge the abuse and I could see him belittling me and dismissing my experience as well-skilled perpetrators can do.

    DebraUK, I too work with teens and love it. I am a residential care manager at an emergency shelter for homeless youth–3 blocks from the beach! spoiled huh? Yes, cutting is on the rise, copycat or otherwise. Professionals are flocking to lectures and needing resources to deal with this growing problem. At this point it is not rare to have to put a client on a (anti) cutting contract. We no longer even buy razors, we just made a no shaving policy for everyone. But cutters will find anything they can, a staple, their nails, etc. to cut. It’s really hard to be smarter than a teen but we flailing adults try. I’m also attending Loyola Marymount to get my certification in drug/alcohol addiction counseling. I’m sure this will become a needed part of the curriculumn as eating disorders now are.

    Comment by LAGirrrl — January 13, 2007 @ 9:28 am

22. When I told my bishop that I was struggling with SI and I wasn’t eating much anymore (for me these happened simultaneously), he asked me if I was suicidal. When I said I wasn’t, he told me that I should just call him the next time I felt like cutting myself. I found this approach extremely unhelpful. Like, I wasn’t about to start calling my bishop when I felt the urge coming on and I felt stupid for even mentioning it to him. I guess I thought he would give me sympathy or get me some professional help??

    I haven’t cut or burned myself in about 8 years now. Some days the urge is still strong (and, to be honest, it is hard to read these posts w/o remembering the emotional “thrill” of SI), but I feel really happy to know that it’s in my past now.

    Comment by anon-me — January 13, 2007 @ 9:50 am

23. this may seem redundant, or unnecessary to state… but it was significantly harmful for me.
    the idea in the church that depression comes from sin. there are many who actually feel that is the case, and I absorbed that message… I think that is why I always felt that my depression/eating dis was something I needed to confess about.
    I remember Sheri Dew giving a talk where she stated (something along the lines of) “depression comes from sin,” and that almost destroyed me (she being one of my heroes and all).
    I think (hope) that the perception is changing… but I know it is still there.

    Comment by anon — January 13, 2007 @ 9:53 am

24. One more note: For those who would like to read more about Mormons and SI, there was a good post at Mormanity on the topic a few years ago.

    Comment by anon-me — January 13, 2007 @ 9:56 am

25. #17 relates to hair pulling and skin scratching, but I think that’s only a surface term (pun!)

    I’m a self injurious skin picker. I’ve been clean of it for a month. I honestly don’t know why I’ve stopped but suddenly it hasn’t appealed to me like it used to. I hope to God it doesn’t appeal again.

    Trigger stuff….
    Blackheads, zits, pimples, ingrown hairs…that’s the mutilation for me. I don’t just pop, I squeeze until I’ve got raw oozing sores and large scabs, which also need to be picked off so the skin is smooth. This started when I was 12 or so, with scabs on my scalp.

    More picking leads to more zits. More picking means the sores I do have don’t heal. It’s a terrible cycle. My skin has cleared immensely since I’ve stopped. My face has remained scar free luckily, but my back and shoulders look pocked.

    Many of my picking friends had times in their lives where they’ve not left their houses because their faces looked so bad. Some won’t date or get married. Some pick at their partners! Some have partners that also pick and then they feel reduced to primates, always grooming!

    What’s funny is that the notion of cutting into my skin, with a tool or a needle, is a fear of mine. Yet, I can go at it all I like with my fingernails and a pair of tweezers. I scan my skin when I’m bored, at the computer, hungry, feeling ill, frustrated, even TOO happy.

    Comment by anon for now — January 13, 2007 @ 10:40 am

26. #25 - Fellow skin picker here. I replaced the moderate food disorder in my teens with skin picking around age 18. Mostly I do it on my chest/breasts. Picking at the scabs to smooth the skin and all.

    I am married. We are silent about the matter. I don’t do it in front of him. It is a private matter. However, the results are quite obvious.

    I wish I could stop and have tried many many times. Eventually anxiety or frusteration comes back and there I am picking again.

    Comment by annon as well — January 13, 2007 @ 12:21 pm

27. I worked for two years in a treatment facility in happy valley that specialized in eating disorders. I was amazed and dismayed to find, not only that eating disorders are alive and well in happy valley, but that sometimes, the Mormon Culture’s mindset of having to appear perfect before others, inflicting guilt upon oneself for even the tiniest of slip ups because they don’t hear about others’ struggles because “you’re not supposed to talk about past mistakes”, contributed significantly to the problem.

    After working there, I have vowed to never let a fasion magazine enter my home. I’ve seen what damage it does. I mean, some people will read this and say, “whatever. A fasion magazine is not going to make your daughters anorexic and bulimic”. But let me tell you– the effects are as insiduous and subtle as everything else the adversary comes up with to destroy the lives of men and women.

    I thought I’d offer this link as help to anyone who is reading this post who may be struggling with these issues and aren’t sure how to get help, or feel that they don’t have someone they can talk to about it.

    Another thing– I haven’t read all the responses to this post, but one thing to keep in mind about ED is it isn’t really about food. It isn’t even really about wanting to look good. Some of the girls who came in for treatment definitely did not look good, and they knew it.

    I’ve had people tell me that they “wish that they had the will power” to be anorexic, but they “just love food too much.” To those people (and to anyone reading this who may feel this way), I say: do not wish an eating disorder upon yourself or anyone else.

    Do not judge someone with an eating disorder.

    Do not accuse someone of having an eating disorder lightly–

    it’s a very real, personal struggle with lots of underlying factors that cause deep and signficant pain, as well as intense shame, to the individual who is struggling. Be as caring and tactful as you would be if you were dealing with someone who is struggling from any other sort of addiction– because that’s what it is, and addiction.

    Comment by Sare — January 13, 2007 @ 1:02 pm

28. sorry for the spelling errors– I’m hurrying so that I can get back to cleaning my house before Sister in law comes over.

    Comment by Sare — January 13, 2007 @ 1:04 pm

29. John R,
    Please explain “trigger warning” in your original post. I don’t understand what you mean.

    Comment by jks — January 13, 2007 @ 1:26 pm

30. I inserted the trigger warning on the advice of sarebear (#1). It serves as a flag for other self injurers who may feel compelled to mimic the behavior written here. Her comment explains it better than I can.

    Comment by JohnR — January 13, 2007 @ 1:32 pm

31. Trigger Alert–

    When I was at BYU, I took a final where the score on the testing center paper said 55. There were 56 questions on the test, so I first thought I totally aced the exam, but quickly I realized that no, that was 55%. I had just been weeded from a weeder class to my dream major. I went home, locked myself in the bathroom, and bawled until I didn’t have any tears left. I looked over and saw my razor sitting on the edge of the tub, and slowly ran it over my wrist. It stung just a little, but the feeling was like relief washing over me, not pain. I sat there for a long time, pressing harder and harder, getting the right angle down for maximum “damage.”

    Long story short, I got into a great therapist to deal with some issues. I felt silly at first because I have the most loving, realistic parents–no crazy expectations of greatness that I probably wouldn’t achieve. I’ve never been sexually abused, or any other abuse for that matter. Still, I had fallen into a weird depression that took some good therapy and Zoloft and self reflection to help me live my life again.

    This was 7 years ago. I have some great scars on my thighs (once a roommate noticed my arms, I had to switch locations to not be caught) that remind me how far I’ve come. I have to pay special attention to myself to know when I’m feeling myself slip, and to get help before I end up cutting on an hourly basis again. The temptation is certainly still there, espcially on the not so good days of life.

    As far as the church goes, I was very blessed to have a bishop that refered me to counseling, not just talking to him. My roommates were worried, and they cared enough to take some action, and to be supportive, even when I was pushing them away. I think the church–at least in my experience–has come a long way in recognizing that not everything can be solved by prayer and faith alone. Clearly these are important, but by creating resources of trained, professional help, I have felt a much more healthy approach moving through the ranks.

    My heart goes out to those who did not have the same positive experience with church resources.

    Thank you for this post. This is such a positive step forward for those of us suffering/recovering from these situations.

    Comment by anon — January 13, 2007 @ 1:41 pm

32. I just posted yesterday on my blog about how my parents influenced my thoughts about weight. (It was more about childhood obesity, but I mentioned the home environment I experienced.)
    Basically, when I told my parents I had an eating disorder in high school, they grounded me. My dad asked me, “do you even know what an eating disorder is?” Basically it was a bad situation. When I was a senior in high school, I applied to BYU just for kicks. I knew I wouldn’t get in. But when I thought I actually wanted to go there, I made a pact with god I would stop starving myself if I got in to BYU– I did. Unfortunately, once I got in, I stopped eating again. But, as Keri said, I developed hypoglycemia and now I can’t not eat. Sometimes I am angry about that, but I guess it is a blessing.
    I used to cut, but I made another pact with God that I would stop. There are days I really, really miss it. But, I am married and I know it would kill my husband if I started cutting again. So, he is what keeps me from it. When I first started cutting in high school, my friend saw and talked to my school counselor about it. I got called down to the office and I got sent home from school because I “was a danger to myself and others.” I don’t know if that was the best thing, my parents didn’t really ever talk to me about it. I started seeing a counselor after that, so I guess it was good I got sent home.
    I was going to be anon on this post because there are people I know who read here who don’t know that about me. But, sometimes it helps to just be open about everything.
    Margaret Young’s post on times and seasons about her daughter’s eating disorder was fabulous. I wish my parents had acted that way.
    SOrry this is so long, but one more thing. John, you asked how God or the church had helped. As you can see, it helped me in some ways. I did make “pacts” with god to make me stop. But I don’t think church culture ever helped me. If anything, it made me feel more secretive because I knew I had to hide it. Okay that’s all.

    Comment by cmac — January 13, 2007 @ 2:30 pm

33. cmac
    your story is powerful… I am glad that working with God like that helped you, I wish mine had been similar.
    see, I kept trying to make “pacts” with God to do/not do certain things (”I will eat more tomorrow” “I will not throw up today” “I will not binge tonight” etc…) but I failed every time and just felt more and more isolated from God.
    I was reading a lot of S.R. Covey at the time… I don’t think that helped at all.
    I have since found peace and acceptance from God, but I really felt pretty damned at the time.

    Comment by still anon — January 13, 2007 @ 4:10 pm

34. One important thing is that, even though I made a pact with God, I still relapsed. But once I realized that a) God wasn’t mad at me for doing that again, even though I promised I wouldn’t and b) he wanted to help me stop, it was a lot easier. The hardest things for me were passing year marks. There were a few years that I would cut just so it would never be more than a year since I had last cut. Once I passed the year mark, I felt so free. I think God realizes that it takes a long time to change. We just don’t allow ourselves any mess-ups. But God can just say, “wow! you made it 48 hours! that’s great!” and then he will help you move on from there. (wow, I sure sound like a self-help book, don’t I?)

    Comment by cmac — January 13, 2007 @ 5:12 pm

35. you sound like a much better self-help book than some of the ones I was reading!

    one LDS book that helped alot, though, was “Conquering your own Goliaths” by Steven Cramer

    Comment by still anon — January 13, 2007 @ 5:21 pm

36. Someone recently asked me to share some of my struggles. This is a topic on which I can understand a little, and so I will share a bit of my experience.

    I was borderline eating disorderish for most of my young adult years, probably even beginning in high school. I was skinny, skinny, skinny until puberty and then the body changed. I was never fat, but felt awful about myself. Awful. It consumed a great deal of my mental, emotional and even spiritual energy. I would have a hard time concentrating in class if the waist on my pants felt too tight, or if I had overeaten.

    Ironically, the only time I was really able to lose weight was the first semester of my freshman year, when I was so busy that I didn’t think about eating so much; I ate, but I wasn’t consumed by eating. And I didn’t have a scale so I just sort of lived. The only time I lost weight was when I wasn’t trying to. But then when I did, I loved the way it felt, and then it quickly became an obsession again. It was noticeable enough that my roommates gathered (without me) and went through one roomie’s nursing book and thought for sure I had anorexia. I didn’t full on, but I wasnt’ consuming enough calories for a while. Even more importantly, though, it was an obsession, even though I never reached the level of unhealthy levels of anorexia (my weight stayed in a decent range). I never purged. But I binged, and was obsessive about exercise. Healthy, sure, to be jogging everyday, but not healthy because if I didn’t I felt awful emotionally because I felt more fat. What a nightmare. It really felt like a trap; a huge nemesis that was always there.

    Part of what was hard, too, was my interpretation of what I “should” be doing. It bothered me to not be in control of my passions. The whole binge and exercise and then skimp for a meal or whatever I did to compensate for binging was a total yo-yo thing. I didn’t like feeling out of control and I felt unworthy when I was. I think that is something that is hard, because misperceptions about self-worth can bleed over into one’s spirituality. I don’t see that as the church’s fault, but misperceptions that are wound up in the disorder. It seems to me as often part of the package.

    What did I do? I really tried to endure through it all. I think I didn’t reach the point of purging or severe anorexia (e.g., life-threateningly thin) because there was a part of my brain that knew that it could damage my body if I did, so I somehow was able to keep some limits on it. I think that was a blessing in a big way, because I know not everyone who struggles feels able to draw any limits at all. I think there are degrees to which these things manifest themselves. I probably would have benefited from some therapy, though.

    The thing about it all that really has sobered me is that at a certain point in my life, this burden was literally taken away. It wasn’t directly related to any behavior that *I* did. That’s not to say that I didn’t do something …I endured, I suppose. And that is NOT to say that one can simply do nothing and expect it will disappear. I am really glad there is professional help for these struggles, because often that is a necessary part of healing (like I said, I probably should have had some). But my particular experience for me has taught me that the Lord, in His time and way, can sometimes choose to take our burdens. Why He doesn’t always is, of course, a difficult question. I still ask it sometimes with other struggles that I have –that nemesis of obsession with weight and food and exercise was replaced by other trials that are similarly heart-wrenching and difficult and sometimes as consuming and threatening to my sense of well-being and worth in similar ways. And so I endure again, through new battles. But what my experience taught me is that perhaps there is hope that my current trials, too, in the due time of the Lord, might be lessened or removed. In the meantime, I just try to do what I can to keep the Spirit and to hang on when times are tough. There are times when I sort of live from blessing to blessing that I seek from my husband and sometimes from church leaders. But, for me, clinging to the rod is sometimes the only source of strength that I have, that and trying to keep an eternal perspective. I, along with many of you I’m sure, sometimes yearn for the resurrection NOW — like, give me that new body!

    I also struggle with the whole “not keeping pacts” thing…so I try to focus on doing my best and not giving up. I’ve never done well with hard-core goal-setting because I get too discouraged unless I do it all perfectly. I think we each have to find that balance of what we really can do and never doubting the love of the Savior or Heavenly Father in spite of our struggles and weaknesses and the process of growth any trials entail. Whenever I doubt God’s love, then I’m really in bad shape, and all that plagues me becomes worse. So my goal is to hold onto faith that even I, in all my weaknesses and failings, can be saved.

    Anyway, that is some of my experience with some of this. One last thing…I think we’d all be surprised (or maybe not) to know how many people struggle with gradations of these types of trials. It helps me not feel so alone to realize that I’m really not alone, even if I don’t know specifically how others have struggled. I don’t say that to minimize anyone’s trials, but just to say that sometimes, at least for me, it’s helped me not to feel so unique and different and hopeless in my brokenness (which usually makes everything worse if I do feel that way, ya know?) I feel like the adversary wants me to be so ashamed of my brokenness that I will hide in shame from others and from the Lord. But I try to remember that we’re all broken in one way or another, methinks. I think that’s what the Atonement is all about, and my constant struggle is trying to find and feel the healing power of the atonement in the midst of my trials.

    Comment by m&m — January 13, 2007 @ 5:34 pm

37. LAGirrrl in #17 mentioned hair pulling. I am a hair puller. I pluck out my hair one strand at a time, I have no idea why I do it, and I cannot stop. It started in law school. This completely embarrassing habit/disorder/whatever snuck up on me on the brink of my professional life. I thought it would stop once the stress of school stopped, but it hasn’t. I am so in control of every other part of my life…I have a good job, I have a lot of friends, I am happy. But I cannot stop pulling out my hair.

    I haven’t told anyone, but I assume a lot of people know. My husband knows, but he tries to ignore it. I have tried to stop out of sheer force of will, I have prayed for the willpower to stop, and I have tried to shame myself into stopping. But I still pull out my hair. I’ve stopped going to the hair salon. I have huge bald spots all over my scalp that I have to creatively hide with my hairstyle.

    I feel a bit sheepish posting my story on a thread about anorexia and cutting. I know my issue is not life-threatening or as serious. But somehow I felt the need to post this. Thanks to everyone else who shared their experience.

    Comment by Puller — January 13, 2007 @ 8:50 pm

38. Puller, my cutting was never life-threatening, and hair pulling is as much SI as anything else. Feel free to post in this thread.

    Someone mentioned earlier the thread about SI on Mormanity from March 2005. I DO NOT recommend this thread at all. It basically says that people who cut have a mixture of insanity and trend-following stupidity- this is incorrect, offensive, and potentially very hurtful to people who have a genuine struggle with SI.

    Comment by Nonymus — January 13, 2007 @ 9:34 pm

39. I just now am able to get back and continue to read these comments. I hope I did not offend anyone with my comments. I have never had any real experiences with these kinds of issues. I have a friend whose son cut himself but that is all. I really don’t know what you are going thru so you can brand me ignorant on the subject. I have never tried to hurt anyones feelings intentionally. I’m sure that there are times when I say the wrong thing, but I am not trying to hurt anyone. I have to say that I have learned a lot by reading this and I am grateful for that.

    Comment by Lucy Stern — January 13, 2007 @ 10:45 pm

40. #37…Thanks for sharing, I posted the info so you could either reach some insight in that maybe you bite your nails, etc.and it’s that kind of behavior but in a different area or with more addictive cycles. Hair pulling is serious in that it is a coping mechanism that makes you shamed or feel “less than”. My Mom is a hair cutter, she can’t stop cutting on her hair, same type of behavior. They all can fall under SI behavior as #38 remarked. Hopefully understanding how a simple habit can snowball into an addictive-like coping strategy will give us all the ability to empathize and/or heal.

    Lucy, that was big of you to acknowledge that you didn’t mean to offend and that you are learning so much…that is all we can ever ask of one another.

    Comment by LAGirrrl — January 13, 2007 @ 11:01 pm

41. Hair-pulling is an impulse control disorder called trichotillomania. I just discovered the name the other day as I was doing research on depression, because with my history of depression and hair-pulling (I unconsciously pick at my eyebrows and eyelashes, and have several times been without both; thankfully they grow back)–I thought I had OCD or something. I found several resources online about trichotillomania, but mainly about what it is, not tools for stopping. I go in spurts. I’ve done it since high school, and when pulling at my eyes wasn’t enough, I started tweezing my legs. I figured that instead of shaving or waxing, I’d just tweeze. It was all about making my leg completely hairless, a very detailed OCD thing.

    I find I pull most when I’m depressed or under a great deal of stress, and the result is much the same as what others are saying they get from cutting. I don’t understand it, and I’m just starting to recognize it as something I need help fixing, rather than just a really weird idiosyncracy. I’m finally starting to realize that it relates to the way I obsess over certain things, and to the anxiety I feel.

    I also pick at my skin, too, which I think is related to my anxiety as well–not to mention I have dermatitis which makes me itch all the time, so it’s hard to keep my hands away from my face. When other people would tell me when I was growing up to just “don’t itch it!” I couldn’t understand why they thought I could ignore it–it was just too severe to ignore.

    I found
    this site particularly informative. One thing I found on there in the notes for clinicians is especially true for me: “Hair pulling typically occurs during sedentary and contemplative activities during which the hands are free and the mind is otherwise occupied. Hair is often pulled absentmindedly, while involved in another activity like reading, talking on the telephone, driving or watching television. There may also be times of the day when the risk of pulling is greater. Many people pull in the evening and late at night when they are alone, tired, or trying to fall asleep.” (found here.)

    Comment by stacer — January 13, 2007 @ 11:49 pm

42. I have had extensive experience with self-injury and cutting. I’m also an avid perfectionist, so I agree that there is a connection there. However, my self-injury was also connected the the family problems that resulted from my parents’ divorce and the way I was treated by my father. I’ve found this to be an even stronger connection, because I have friends who also use self-injury as a coping mechanism for traumatic life experiences.

    It didn’t take long for me to crave the adrenaline rush, and the illusion of control I was creating for myself. At a time in my life when I had no influence over my circumstances, I wanted to have something that was mine. Something no one could take from me. Something that allowed me to release my anger, even if it had to be on my body. That was the mentality behind my actions.

    My father was a huge reason that I had to rely on such a drastic means of coping. He would degrade me, and put me in situations that made me despise myself for being a coward and submissive. Only once I permanently moved in with my mom and out of his house did I finally develop a new mindset that wasn’t relient upon my self-injury.

    I have a lot of things I do to keep myself from falling back into cutting. I’ve informed my martial arts instructor of my insecurities, and I don’t have to treat my anger management issues like a dirty secret anymore, guilt being something that triggers me. So being open and honest with myself about my feelings is helpful. The self-discipline I gain from my training aids me emotionally, and I’m better able to remove myself from situations that are detrimental to my well-being. Honestly, I think that should be the solution to people with self-esteem issues; teach them self-defense.

    I have found the church to be extremely helpful with keeping me from relapsing, which, to this day, is still a possibility. The church has introduced me to people that genuinely care if I injure my body or not. Knowing that I don’t just hurt myself when I cut, and not allowing myself to ignore that fact, has been an influence on me. The church also taught me that body is not mine to do with as I please; it’s a house for my spirit given to me by God. It is my responsibility to take care of it, to love it, and to keep it a clean and safe place for my spirit; the most precious thing I have. I must defend it from any harm, including the harm I would do to it myself.

    I have recovered from my self-injury addiction; as much as an addict CAN recover, at least. I’ve been “sobre,” as it were, for almost a year. If I could say anything to people that struggle with self-injury, it would be that you can stop at any time, and it’s possible to quit. No one can do it for you. While therapy, church, friends and family can be helpful, none of them on their own is the solution. There is only one solution: Love. You HAVE to love yourself. The difference between me and my best friend, who still injures herself, is that she hates herself. She hates everything about herself, and tells herself that she’s worthless. You have to change that if you want to stop. And it won’t be easy, but it is possible, and it takes dedicated practice. By slowly taking yourself off of it, and finding other means of coping with stress, and replacing your inner dialogue, and establishing support systems, there exists a future without cutting and self-injury. But you have to love yourself enough to stop.

    If you don’t, then perhaps that’s where you need to start. Once you fix that, then it’s just a matter of slowly making changes… very do-able. And I know, because I’ve done it… and without the therapy or medication, believe it or not.

    Anyone who struggles with self-mutilation, know that you are in my prayers. I know your story. I know your thoughts. I know that despite everything you’ve tried, you feel as if it hasn’t ammounted to much because you’re still trapped. But believe me, you can change. Any time you want, any time your ready.

    The other side, the one without the pain, is beautiful. I know because I’m there. And one day, you will be too!

    Comment by Paradox — January 14, 2007 @ 12:31 am

43. Puller, it may benefit to do some research, with your husband about your habit. You mentioned that your husband tries to ignore it. In my experience, it is helpful to have your family and friends know about your struggle, and in this way they can try to help you. It doesn’t sound like yours is quite as far along as my sister, who is completely bald from trichotillomania, but she has learned some coping strategies so she is not as ashamed or keeping secrets, whether or not it has helped her with pulling as of yet. Our family also has learned these strategies and I think it is helpful to share. She wore a wig for a long time, but recently took it off and when questioned, would simply respond: I pull out my hair. It’s a condition of anxiety and a bad habit. She is a freshman in high school. This condition is being researched and I encourage people to find out more about it and other conditions being discussed in this thread, as you likely will come across them one day.
    Stacer, your research is correct and is informative to many compulsive activities. I am also a skin picker and it has helped me to explain what I thought little of at first to my husband and he helps me to keep in control. He will come get me from the mirror if I have been there for too long, saving me what could be hours of demolishing my face.
    I would like to add that there are several people in your life that, whether you know it or not, have problems like the ones discussed here. Please do not judge them. One day it might be your child, your husband, or your best friend. I have seen all the ways in which people have treated my sister, who struggles with all these things on this thread, and I am so thankful for the people who treat her with kindness, which is rarer than you might think. This post can open your eyes to how many people struggle in this way, and I’m glad it has been brought to attention, not to undermine other unique stuggles that we go through.

    Comment by Merkat — January 14, 2007 @ 12:47 am

44. i don’t have anything to add. I just want to thank the people who have posted for their honesty and openness. I know that it means a lot to others who are stuggling to overcome the same challenges to hear that they aren’t alone, and that they can succeed.

    I want to add to the chorus of voices who have said there is no need to ever feel ashamed or alone. Every human person struggles with something. There will be people who quit being your friend over it. There will be people who are ignorant and misguided, and offer wrongheaded solutions or advice. There will be others who simply grow weary and give you up. But those people are mistaken, and they can learn better. Threads like this really help them, I think, and the more open and accepting of yourself you can be, the easier it is for them to learn. Heavenly Father values each of us enormously. Our worth is inestimable. And we can learn to love ourselves with something like the same love he had for us. Reach for good help wherever you can find it, and realize that all God’s angels, and all good people are supporting you and on your side. You have their prayers and hopes and wishes with you always.

    Comment by Tatiana — January 14, 2007 @ 1:36 am

45. Paradox, I would venture to say that for people who are really self-aware, they may be able to do as you have done, without therapy and/or medication.

    There are others, who don’t have as much insight into themselves, that, to them, I think your statement that people can do it it, right now, without meds or therapy, might be problematic.

    I am not trying to criticise your success, though; just maybe say that putting it as strongly and all-encompassingly as you have, that others can do it on their own, it just seems too . . . one-size fits all. Neither is therapy or meds a one-size fits all, either! And I am glad that your sucess is proof of the success someone can have without those!

    I just wouldn’t put out there the blanket statement that people can choose to stop, right now, without those things, because there may very well be people who have little to no insight into why they do it, there may be other conditions causing or exacerbating the situation, such as mental illnesses of various types and severity, etc.

    Anyway, I am SO glad that you had such great success, and that it WAS without medication or therapy! It IS a testament to personal power, and the power to heal and change.

    I know I, myself, need other helps like medication and therapy, I know you aren’t saying they are bad, but I am also saying that it isn’t bad or weak to need them, either! In case anyone thought so.

    I hope I haven’t hurt you! I just want everyone to feel safe, and not judged or weak for looking to therapy or anything (not that I’m saying you were necessarily judging such; but I felt that some of your statements could potentially be read that way!).

    We ok?

    On another note . . . . here’s something that I haven’t admitted to ANYONE, except husband, but even to him it’s just . . . something I do. That’s what I say about it.

    Actually, that’s how I discuss it with my ologist, too, because it IS just “something I do”. I have no clue why. I pick. I have since I was a small child, the few memories I have from then that I can remember.

    By this point it’s beyond habit, to reflex, although after a year and a half of therapy (where it hasn’t been talked about hardly at all yet, because there’s so many other things to talk about!), I am noticing that I tend to do it when anxious. Course, I tend to do it anywhere, everywhere, and anytime, too . . . and I have anxiety disorders, so I’m anxious all the time even when I’m not really aware of it, anyway.

    But it’s just something I do, it’s not anything I think about, or that there’s a reason. I just do, without thought or being aware of what I’m feeling (when I cut, I’m very aware of what I’m feeling).

    I pick. I’m very embarassed to say that.

    I HAVE to. I am COMPELLED to, on an instinctual/physical urge level, like the physical urge to drink or eat. That’s why I say it’s something I do. Just. something. I. do.

    I do not have a choice in the matter, I HAVE TO DO IT. There aren’t those thoughts so much, unless I try to restrain myself from doing it. I suspect if I was tied up to where I couldn’t, I’d go nuts. But who knows?

    In the last 6 months, there’s been some bad times on my face. In previous years, there’d been an occasional bad time with my nose, but until recently, nothing like this. I really felt like how someone said; that it gets to where you don’t leave the house, or don’t want to, and won’t. I’m not sure how I restrained myself enough at the end of it this time, just recently, after a couple weeks of bad face, except sometimes as time goes on it heals in ways with less to pick.

    ewww, I am so disgusted by saying and revealing that. But I will, anyway.

    I had no idea this was a form of SI, until a couple weeks into therapy, and once I had made that connection in therapy, when I spoke briefly with him about the picking, and he told me it was self-injury, within a few days I started cutting. I think he feels bad about how that all started, not that it’s his fault, though.

    I had no idea it was self-injury; one can be injuring themselves and not know that it is self-injury, wierd as that sounds.

    Anyway, I hope you all aren’t disgusted by me, and I hope people who’ve said they’d meet me, in the past, like Janet, aren’t now too grossed out to do so.

    Mebbe I’ll go hide.

    Sara

    Comment by sarebear — January 14, 2007 @ 4:05 am

46. I thought that I would note that heart-to-heart does have a sub-group devoted to eating disorders, just as AA has OA.

    http://ldsrecovery.wordpress.com/ seems to have gone dark, but it has a lot of good links.

    I mention them because h-t-h is where the LDS Social Services Twelve Step program started.

    http://heart-t-heart2.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=51d82df7f29172bebf7aba54711f2d0a

    Just FYI.

    Comment by Stephen M (Ethesis) — January 14, 2007 @ 8:20 am

47. Hmm, my Sunday School teacher is also doing local service mission work and leads an LDS 12-step group. He talked in gospel doctrine today about how it helps people with pornography and eating problems.

    For what that is worth, at least in the Dallas, Texas area.

    Comment by Stephen M (Ethesis) — January 14, 2007 @ 4:00 pm

48. oh shoot, I thought I was reading this thread as it may relate to others, but I have several of the mild/moderate compulsions being described. so… what now? (rhetorically, I suppose)

    Comment by cchrissyy — January 14, 2007 @ 5:42 pm

49. I just wanted to say how impressed I am with the bravery of so many people sharing their experiences. Terry Tempest Williams wrote that “we are healed by our stories.” Culturally I think that’s true, and on an individual level I think sharing our stories can at the very least open roads to healing. Or at least I really hope so. I’ve never understood the cutting thing (the ED thing, yes!) and this thread is helping me gain understanding of something I’ve been afraid to ask about for fear of sounding nosy. Thanks for educating me.

    Comment by Janet — January 14, 2007 @ 7:35 pm

50. #47 Knowledge is power, being aware is vital in realizing your behaviors are indicating that you may be stressed or triggered by events. We all have some aspects of some disorders but is it a compulsion resulting with severe results? i.e. does it interfere with your life is always a question asked to gauge. I tell my clients that it’s great to be aware and writing can always be a powerful outlet, using your voice in the moment of discomfort with family, peers, teachers, etc. Begin building your “healthy tools” of coping with life.

    Comment by LAGirrrl — January 14, 2007 @ 8:10 pm

51. Lucy–

    I just wanted to step in and say that from your previous posts, I know that you’re a very caring and non-judgmental woman, and I appreciate your perspective when you weigh in.

    It’s hard to see the difficulty involved in ED and SI because it’s so “hidden,” and sometimes, the people who engage in it are not the type to feel like they’re allowed to be less than perfect. So a lot of ED and SI afflicted people seem really well put-together (and quite often, are).

    Also, when someone is attractive and perfectionistic, it’s hard to believe that they have serious things going on under the surface. We all like to put people on pedestals– unfortunately, some of the people who are put up there could really use empathy instead.

    I’ve made the same mistake, time and time again, and I should know better.

    Comment by Sare — January 14, 2007 @ 8:18 pm

52. Thanks for raising this issue. I’ve self-injured for years (mostly cutting), and while it’s something I don’t do regularly anymore, it’s also not non-existent in my life. I do it for reasons that others have mentioned: to cope with overwhelming emotion–or, conversely, sometimes just to feel anything at all. Often also I do it to make things “real”; I have a history of doubting my own emotions, and I find myself craving that tangible, physical proof of something being wrong. It’s a continuing difficulty to take my own voice, my own feelings, my own emotions seriously. How do you learn to pay attention to what’s going on with you when you’re told that the highest virtue is to be selfless, to lose yourself in the service of others? I’ve struggled to understand what exactly that’s supposed to mean. It’s actually been a bit of a surprise to me, as I’ve worked (with lots of therapy) through various issues, to have the sense that God was okay with my paying attention to and trying to connect with my own experience; I think I’d assumed for a long time that I’d be condemned as “selfish” for any such endeavor. I think I’m maybe learning to distinguish between serving others and being aware of their needs (a good thing), and letting my own experience be swallowed up by that of others (not such a good thing).

    And how do I see this as related to my faith as a Mormon? I think that I’m probably temperamentally somewhat neurotic and guilt-prone, and that would likely have shown up regardless, though growing up in a faith with a strong emphasis on sin has probably also contributed to my anxiety about such matters. For a long time I thought that God was probably mad at me for cutting–though ironically, I also found that I sometimes did it in a desperate attempt to appease him, because I thought he was mad at me for other things. However, coming to believe more and more that God is concerned, that he wants to help, and that he’s not going to break off his relationship with me over cutting (or anything else), has definitely helped a lot.

    Comment by a Mormon who SIs — January 14, 2007 @ 9:38 pm

53. 47
    I think a lot of people would be surprised to find out that they exhibit behaviors that would be considered symptoms of a disorder of some sort. I think one key is if the behavior gets in the way of “normal” (whatever “normal” is) functioning. On one hand, like Sara said to Paradox, not everyone will be able to overcome disorders and SI without some help, and it’s a blessing that help is there! But, on the flip side, not everyone who exhibits symptoms of obsessive disorders, SI, etc. are going to need some help.

    I tend to think that one of the interesting challenges of our day is figuring out when one might benefit from some help. I also think another challenge is not defining ourselves by whatever behaviors or challenges we face. Sometimes I wonder if the label can compound the problems, because it’s hard to separate the label from any stigma that might be associated with it, or the shame, or the worry about what others might think, or the self-loathing for not being without whatever we are struggling with.

    I really look forward to the day when these things can be talked about as openly as other physiological disorders without fear or worry about what people will think, or without one who struggles feeling so different or ashamed or broken. I just tend to believe that these behaviors really are present a lot more than we think - at varying levels, perhaps, but not uncommon, either.

    Comment by m&m — January 14, 2007 @ 9:55 pm

54. I was bulimic in high school and part of college. I think it started from a year or so of undereating - not severe enough to be anorexia - that led to a feeling of guilt every time I did eat more than what I thought was “ok”. Purging was my repentance process and was the only thing that rid me of the guilt of eating.

    My recovery started at BYU with a counselor and a 12-step group for young women struggling with eating disorders. Although I worked with two therapists outside of BYU, the one I had there was incredibly helpful and really my first step toward recovery. I still have a binder full of writing and art projects I completed with my BYU therapist and 12-step group, and pull them out for a visit every once in a while when I’m feeling vulnerable. The work I did with those resources reminds me of the strength I can find within and outside of myself.

    I didn’t feel an incredibly strong sense of being helped by God through recovery, though I did feel led to the people and relationships that led to seeking help. Especially in the group setting, we talked about our bodies being designed by and a gift from God. The Church aided in my recovery because it emphasizes that our bodies are good - temples, even - and that they can be used powerfully. Whether there are really spirits out there who would give anything for a body, or whether this is more of an allegory, it is a beautiful reminder that our bodies are special and wonderful and a blessing. Faith in a Savior helped me work through guilt and faith in my own ability to grow and change helped me work through my fear.

    Comment by Elise — January 15, 2007 @ 12:57 am

55. m&m, thanks for sharing your story. I did really identify with it. I too was an overexerciser (bulimic exerciser) at BYU. Unlike you, I also purged pretty often, as eating made me feel “bad” or “dirty,” and only purging would make me feel “clean” again. I never really binged much, but I felt like I couldn’t allow very much food to “stick” to me, so I had to get it out. After a 2-hour run, or having not eaten over 500 calories in a 24-hour period, I would finally start to feel like a “worthy” human being. It was a very bad cycle that went on for years.

    I don’t do it anymore - the purging - but when I get anxious or depressed, I still really want to…20 years later. That said, I think I like myself more now than I did then. Or, rather, I’m more aware of what I like and dislike, and why, instead of blanket-hating everything about me. Slow progress…

    Comment by RE — January 15, 2007 @ 7:08 am

56. Oh, my. I’m so grateful for this post. My heart is full of feeling. I have a stepdaughter who has been cutting. We’ve had her into a hospital youth psych ward twice, and she continues to receive counseling. But she has switched to cutting her hair with scissors. She’s now cut her hair three times, and its boy length everywhere but her bangs.

    I’m learning from those who’ve posted that the best thing I can do for her is to show loving acceptance, no matter what her struggles.

    Sarebear, and #20 Anon, I think you’ll be doing better because you were open about it here. I hope so. Whatever the source of your underlying pain, please express it. Face it, experience the hurt, and let it go. You are a sister of my spirit. Undoubtedly a noble one. But life in these last days has such terrible things that happen to us. Whatever happened to you, it was not your fault. You don’t have to be perfect to be loved.

    Keri, Nonymous, LAGirrrl, and Paradox: Thank you for sharing your insights. You’ve given me more useful information than the local psych ward at the hospital and my other web research did. I appreciate it. You have my best wishes for your continued progress in finding the peaceful joy of living, and the intimate awareness of G*d’s love for you.

    cchrissyy, I to have been surprised to find that several of these milder forms are things that I’ve done or still do. I pick, for example. I used to pull my hairs, one at a time. Hmmmm. Maybe I understand my stepdaughter’s cutting better than I thought I did.

    Thank you all who have posted.

    Comment by Trueheart — January 15, 2007 @ 9:08 am

57. Sare (#45), of course I’d still happily meet you! No need to hide at all :). Who knows–you might find me a little weird or whatever!

    Comment by Janet — January 15, 2007 @ 4:43 pm

58. Thanks Janet! That alleviates my worry some.

    Thanks Trueheart, and others!

    Comment by sarebear — January 16, 2007 @ 5:03 am

59. I was a therapist for over ten years, most of them in the Salt Lake area, and I really struggled with the lack of effective treatment for folks who self-harm (and/or could be diagnosed with borderline personality disorder). However, I soon found a treatment, that IMO (and in the opinion of many of my clients, colleagues, and lots of research) is actually very helpful. If it were me, I would run, not walk, do not collect $200, go directly to a therapist who specializes in Dialectic Behavioral Therapy (DBT). (If any of you are in the SL area and wants a referral, I can provide you with some therapists’ names.) DBT is a safe, non-judgmental, validating, educational, skills-building therapeutic technique. It will help with the self-loathing, the need to self-punish, the need to feel alive, the (often) poor communication skills, the need to truly know who you are, the skills necessary to get thru the night when its 3 a.m. and your therapist is unavailable and you are feeling suicidal and there is no one to call. It will teach you ask for what you want and to say no effectively. It will teach you to self-soothe. It will teach you to control your emotions (and not the other way around). It will teach you how to create and maintain effective relationships with others. This is not typical therapy, where you go in once a week, spill your guts, and leave feeling open. This is hard work, and can take a year or two to learn these skills. But, once learned, these skills are with you forever. As a therapist (and someone who learned skills from DBT that help me), I can say that if you are ready for this hard work, your life can improve.

    Comment by janescott — January 17, 2007 @ 2:15 pm

60. i wonder whether there would be less LDS cutters if the church’s stance on tattoos/piercings were changed.

    Comment by tobnerb — January 19, 2007 @ 5:04 pm

61. After a difficult bout with depression last fall, I fell into SI. I stopped once I realized that there was no way I would be able to hide this from my husband. My cuts were superficial enough that I think he believes my “breaking up a cat fight” story. I didn’t stop, however, before I pressed lit incense into my stomach. I desperately want to burn myself again. I feel weak and inadequate in so many ways. SI - the ability to inflict and endure pain helped me feel strong, yet weak for resorting to such a pathetic act. My problem is that my husband, while he knows I have been on medication for depression, would never understand this. He would feel, in some way, responsible for my unhappiness. He also would feel I was an entity altogether different than the girl he married 20 years ago. So far, I’ve uncharacteristically been able to get up to shower before he does, and tell him he’s in my way when I get out with a towel around me. With teenagers in the house, our sex life pretty much sucks anyway…but keeping the lights off every time, telling him I’m cold and want the blankets, and turning my back when dressing has limits. What can I do? The scars are fading, but not fast enough. And…I don’t know that I’m completely over this. How do people hide it from their spouses?

    Comment by jenianydots — February 12, 2007 @ 8:37 pm

62. I hope this is truly anonymous…but this is the first place I’ve found where LDS people talk about things that are…well, not discussed in Relief Society. Since many of you may have grown up in dysfunctional homes (I’m not saying that is always the cause of SI, but it is frequently a contributing factor, or at least the gene pool from whence we got our tendencies), I’m guessing some of you may not have experienced a loving relationship with your mother. I don’t know if it’s a contributing factor, but I have found myself yearning for the physical affection (not sex, just more than the socially acceptable closeness) of women for several years. Anyone else feel this way? Any solutions?

    Comment by jenianydots — February 12, 2007 @ 8:51 pm

63. #62: re: your yearning for physical affection–maybe it’s nurturing you need, maybe the type that only women can give. Maybe you need mothering? Maybe your spirit yearns for your Heavenly Mother?

    Good luck with everything–I’ll be sending you positive thoughts.

    Comment by janescott — February 14, 2007 @ 11:11 am

64. I was bulemic from age 13 (when I once fasted for a week with water only in order to lose weight) until age 22, and since then have still been preoccupied with weight but have not resorted to dangerous tactics. Looking at mission pictures now I see that I was underweight at the time, although that’s not how I remember it. I told my mission president about it, wondering what to do and he said “well, just stop it.” He was a great man, smart guy, but this was back in the 1980s.

    Comment by Christian — February 14, 2007 @ 6:53 pm

65. I still react viscerally to the word “overexerciser.” I have a hard time believing that anyone can get too much exercise. But all I have to do is read my journal from 20 years ago and look at my pictures to realize that I’m capable of distorted thinking on this subject, so maybe I’m wrong about exercise too.

    Comment by Christian — February 14, 2007 @ 6:57 pm

66. they did DBT a lot a the place where I worked. The clients seemed to think it helped.

    Comment by Sare — February 14, 2007 @ 7:16 pm

67. #60 that is an intersting line of thought and I’m not sure how it factors into cutting, but I know that for me my tattoo was just a fun way to self express and was a well thought out plan as is piercing for many. There isn’t a lot the church does allow in the form of artisitic/creative expression and that feeling is very stifling indeed!

    #64 Does anyone know if there is sensitivity training or debriefing on such disorders for current Mission Presidents? It’s sorely needed.

    Comment by LAGirrrl — February 14, 2007 @ 11:22 pm

68. Christian (#65)… yup, one can be an “over-exerciser.” Take it from me… as a HS freshman i would run between 6 to 10 miles every day, do several hundred sit-ups (both morning and night), maybe two to three hundred pushups (both morning and night), and a couple hundred various leg exercises (you guessed it, both morning and night).
    Was I “fit”? Nope. I was emaciated. Not strong. Not healthy. Thin, starving (consuming about 700 to 1000 calories a day) and exhausted.

    Comment by G — February 15, 2007 @ 1:51 am

69. jenianydots #61 & #62:

    Hi,

    I’ve recently been counseled, by multiple church based counselors, that a marriage should be based on complete, open honesty. I have no idea whether your marriage is strong enough for full disclosure on your SI, but if you tell your husband everything, bare your sole to him about it, and your marriage survives, then it will be much stronger and more supportive to each of you because of it.

    I hope you find the courage to open up to your husband, and tell him everything. Tell him what you understand about why you did it. Try to help him know whether it was, in any way, his fault. Try to help him know how to help you.

    Men feel strongly responsible to “fix” things, including the feelings of thier wives. Help your husband know whether this is something he can fix, or whether you just want him to listen to you share, because you’ll feel unburdened by sharing, and then you want to do all the fixing on your own. Women and wives don’t comprehend how men feel the burden to fix or help, so they don’t get the need to tell us when they want to share their feelings, but don’t want to have help fixing the cause of their feelings. Fixing being the automatic male response, women need to set us up to just listen, or else they should expect help getting fixed. That’s one of the major troubles in communicating between genders.

    Back to the point: I don’t believe your marriage will be better if your can keep your scars from your husband, jenianydots. It will be better if you show your trust in him by opening up your pain to his sympathy, understanding, and maybe even help.

    Hugs. And may God bless and keep you.

    Comment by Trueheart — February 16, 2007 @ 6:57 am

70. Thank You, Trueheart. I know I should take your advice. I just don’t know if I’m ready to go there. I keep thinking I’m going to tell him, then I chicken out. You’ve helped to nudge me a little closer.

    Comment by jenianydots — February 16, 2007 @ 9:21 pm

71. Stacer - thank you, thank you!!! I have been pulling at my eyelashes at least since I was a pre-teen experimenting with makeup (mascara makes my eyelashes itch and fall out - the itching makes me pull at them). Around the age or 21 or so I started pulling at my eyebrows. Yes, I do these more when I am more emotional: depressed, anxious, sad, etc. Thank you so much for the info!!

    Comment by Another Stacer — February 21, 2007 @ 12:23 am

72. I am almost 30, and after 12 years of being ED free, I am suffering again. I have had a year of bad family events, and I am not coping well. I have turned back to Anorexia and Bulemia to cope. I want to kick it, I hate it, but I am having a difficult time . I have already lost 30 lbs in two months. I am overweight, but this is not the right way to do it. I don’t feel happy, my wieght loss success is shameful, instead of an accomplishment. I am in therapy, I have a supportive spouse, but I feel like I am losing. For the sake of my family and children, I hope I can get a grip on this.

    Comment by Suffering at 30 — March 7, 2007 @ 1:10 am

73. Hi. I am a frequent reader to FMH, occasional commenter, and I remember when this post came out. I thought, “huh, I’m sure glad that doesn’t affect me.”

    This morning I found out that my 14 year old daughter has been cutting herself.

    I haven’t read many of these comments, not since I found out, anyway, and I’m going to go back and read them. For now, I’m pretty much in shock, but I am glad that I reacted calmly, not blaming, not judgementally. I went to the Church website and put in the word “cutting” to search for anything, and honestly, I came up with things about cutting fabric for aprons and that sort of thing. It was rather frustrating, so I’m glad for an LDS take on the subject here on FMH.

    I know this is late in the game, here, but I just had to tell someone. Thanks.

    Comment by Anon for this — May 16, 2007 @ 2:41 pm

74. Anon for this,
    I’m glad you saw this, and hope it helps to write about it, even if it is anonymously. I’ve done the same.

    Comment by Friend to cutter — May 16, 2007 @ 3:41 pm

75. Hiya, I dont really know what to say, but I have read nearly all the posts and its relieving if Im honest to know that people who are LDS do suffer like any body else…I know that sounds silly, but you see Im being baptised in to the LDS church in two weeks and Im so so excited!! But I suffer from Bulimia and anorexic tendacies(meaning I often starve myself for days on end) and Self Harm. So you could say Im pretty messed up for a 20year old. But its so hard to have faith sometimes you know.

    But having my faith restored in Jesus Christ has helped me. I do pray and read The Book of Mormon when I feel down and when I cant eat. But I feel terrible guilt when I cut and when I purge, and even today, I havent eaten a thing, feel bad, but know that its what I have to do to lose weight and stay in control, but Im completely doing the wrong thing by God!!

    I know that when I recieve the Holy Ghost after my baptism, that I will get so much help and guidance from the holy spirit, but part of me thinks well i can just carry on and let it be…i will always be forgiven you know. But I have to stop, just cant. I speak to my missionaries, and a friend from the ward about it often and they are amazing. The Bishop does know, but I havent got the guts to go talk to him about it in detail.

    Its such a daily struggle and sometimes I think can I actually get through this! I find it hard to eat, then when I do eat, I find it hard not to throw up…or cut…so its this vicious cycle!!

    I do wish there was more help in the LDS websites though, its hard to find anything, maybe Im not looking in the right places though, and if anyone knows where I might find a site that had advice! I dont know, I just wanted to say something.

    I hope I havent said the wrong things in this post. But I wanted to share my perspective, someone whos yet to be baptised and going through the motions of not feeling good enough to be worthy of Gods love and of receiving the Holy Ghost.

    xx c xx

    Comment by Candy — August 15, 2007 @ 11:31 am

76. Candy- I am so glad you are feeling the effects of the Spirit of the Lord in your life already. He has guided you to baptism because He loves YOU! God doesn’t take our challenges from us, we are refined as we struggle with them. I have always struggled with believing in God’s love for me- and I have struggled with cutting and have been hospitalized for attempted suicide on several occasions. I used to wonder why God wasn’t helping me - surely if He loved me, He would help me stop.

    Then, at BYU, I overdosed and a friend went with me to the ER. They released me that night, and I spent the night at her apartment. After she and her husband went to bed, I read in D&C 121 Joseph’s cry ” O Lord, Where are’t thou? And where is the pavilion of thy hiding place?” That’s how I felt! Where was God in my life? Then, I turned to D&C 38 v7? where the Lord says “mine eyes are upon you and I am in your midst yet ye see me not. Yet the day will come when the veil shall be rent and ye shall see me as I am” That comforted me a lot. No, I couldn’t see the hand of God in my life, but it gave the the capacity to be patient and wait for a brighter day.

    That brighter day is coming ever so slowly…but I have managed to stop cutting for over a year now. I sort of gave it up as a “sacrifice” to the Lord as a petition for a desired blessing. It was tough at first…day by day. But then, one morning, I woke up and had the wonderful feeling that the Lord had accepted what I had placed on the altar of sacrifice and had taken it unto Himself. Those desires to hurt myself in that manner were in essense ‘taken from me’.

    God Bless all of you and your loved ones that are fighting this battle!

    Comment by Gretchen — August 17, 2007 @ 12:47 am

77. To Gretchen
    Thankyou so much for your beautiful supportive words, and for the passages in the the D&C!! They really are how I feel right now you know…Where is God? But i know that I have to battle through, and I will, its just so difficult when I have temptation all around!
    I think my biggest difficulty is not being able to go to the doctors for fear of rejection or something, but I have to go eventually…its just so hard!! Its a huge step!! Maybe once Im baptised and receive the Holy Ghost I will gain the courage to take that huge step!

    Thankyou again so much for taking the time to reply. It really does mean alot to me!

    Im so happy that you havent cut for a year! Thats an awesome achievement! I hope you are proud of you! God really has blessed your life, all our lives, Iv just got to open my eyes a lil wider and let him in a lil more!!

    Thankyou!
    xxx

    Comment by Candy — August 17, 2007 @ 7:14 am

78. Candy

    You are showing an amazing degree of faith right now- you’re going ahead with baptism with the expectation of a blessing. I think having that expectation is so important. You’re at a critical time now- I am sure the temptation to run in fear is stronger than ever. It always is when we are taking a step towards the Lord.

    And, yes, you DO need to see a doctor. Heavenly Father expects us to do everything in our power to help ourselves. The right doctor can really help you work this through and remove a lot of the burdens you are carrying.

    Good Luck!

    Comment by Gretchen — August 19, 2007 @ 11:21 am

79. hey, I just want to say my story. Im 18 and bulimic and have been on and off for six years and mainly on for one. I just want to say that bulimia is not about being thin, at least not for me. It’s about me feeling upset or out of control from the binge I just had. And it is not that I don’t feel the savior’s love because I do. But I have to love myself and I don’t. Do I want treatment? Not really. I don’t know if someone else can understand why I am the way I am, I guess. But I do love my Heavenly Father and I don’t want to die. I just live each day knowing that I am hurting Him but mostly myself and I know that He will someday forgive me but I have to forgive myself and that is something I don’t know if I can do. I know I am not very clear but I hope that the next time someone says that it is about weight, you think back to this and know it is about control and punishment.

    Comment by Amanda — November 28, 2007 @ 6:53 pm

80. Per sarebear’s request, here’s a Trigger Warning.
    I don’t think I could forgive myself if I were to be responsible for someone else hurting themselves. Please, don’t read this post unless you’re safe and confident that you will not feel the urge to do so. There’s a lot I need to get out, and much of it is very painful.

    In this thread, we have so many things in common. We’re LDS women with a problem. Some of us have turned to our husbands, bishops, friends, and even therapists for help, but, try as they may, they haven’t been able to help. For some of you, they have helped. You fortunate sisters are hopefully thanking the Lord day and night for that blessing. Know that you are, in turn, blessed for doing what you can to help other sisters with the same problem.

    I struggle, in many ways, with what most of you are calling SI. One of those struggles comes from feeling so very strongly that there’s an “n” tagged at the end of that term. Heavenly Father has given me this body and instructed me to take care of it, to never defile it. He has given me this commandment, and I am disobeying Him whenever I burn myself. Even though the urge often feels uncontrollable, the Lord has promised He would never put us through an ordeal that we cannot overcome. No matter how strongly that urge hits me, I retain my free agency. What it comes down to is that I make the choice each it happens. I hate to think that I’m willfully disobeying my Heavenly Father. It’s not my intention to be rebellious. I just don’t feel I can control this at times, not without a lot of pain of a different sort. That pain turns me into a dysfunctional puddle, unable to take care of my children, my home, or myself. That pain puts much more stress and strain on my husband, whom I love very much.
    I can’t do that to him. I can’t do that to my children.
    So, I burn myself. It’s the only effective way I know to immediately feel better, to be in control of my pain, to prove to myself that I’m not a complete weakling. Unfortunately the very thing that makes me feel so strong also makes me feel so very weak.
    It also serves as a way to punish myself when I fail in other areas: when I wrong other people, when I haven’t done my best, when I could have said or done something that would have made a situation go better, when I fail to serve and please others because I’m too busy being selfish and self-centered, when I fail to do my duty, when I feel worthless.

    Though burning myself gives me an immediate sense of relief, the calm feeling doesn’t last. When I fail to control the thoughts and urge to hurt myself, I’m overcome with shame, guilt and worthlessness. It doesn’t make sense, though, does it? I know that I am a daughter of our Heavenly Father. An inherent attribute of all His children is their infinite worth. I know this, but I don’t feel that worth. I don’t feel it applies to me.
    Nonetheless, I work hard to earn worth, mainly by serving others. It’s wrong to talk about those things, though. Isn’t it? It would be considered tooting my own horn and it would void the spirit in which that service was given. Not that it matters, really. Every kind deed I’ve performed or can ever perform in my lifetime would never make up for one short moment of pain I’ve ever caused anyone else. Even if they’ve forgiven me, even if the Lord has forgiven me, the deed was still done. There’s no erasing the memory from my imperfect, little mind.
    If nothing else, at least I try. This is my hope. If it doesn’t fully make up for it, I hope service at least counts for something. For some reason, it’s easier to focus on helping others when I’m burning than when go without for a while.

    Recently, I had succeeded in going without burning myself for about seven months, but with no other way to deal with my stress, I broke down and hurt someone very, very dear to me. The shock of what I had done led me to call LDS Family services for help. I didn’t want to get to the point of hurting someone else again and was confident I would get the help I needed there. The psychologist I saw was kind, but, after a couple of months, he became more and more frustrated with me. He thought I was being stubborn, that I didn’t want to open up. I couldn’t. I couldn’t find the words to express my feelings, or even my thoughts. I managed to share some very personal things, but my mind would often go blank when he asked me a question. His frustration led him to threaten to quit (or fire himself, as he would say) several times. I felt bad for wasting his time. He could have been helping someone more deserving, but was stuck with me instead.
    My marriage was not stellar. He saw this and must have thought it was the root of my problem… aside from my cruddy upbringing and abuse as a child. Marriage counseling must be his element. The focus and effort he put forth to get my husband and I to try to understand each other, and show our love for each other was phenomenal. My personal problems took a back seat and were forgotten.
    In that time, I started hurting myself by thrashing the door of our bedroom with my fists, arms, elbows and knees. That hurt my husband. I hated myself for doing that to him. When he replaced the door, I swore I wouldn’t do it again and started throwing up, instead. I don’t eat much to begin with, and I admittedly struggle with weight related self-image issues (among others), but throwing up the little that went in made me feel better for a while. I was in control of something.
    I made the mistake of telling our therapist that this was going on. It was also at this point that I admitted my previous SI struggles. I was so ashamed about burning, more so than the other things. I lied when asked how long it had been since the last incident. I shouldn’t have done that.
    He tried to help, but again the blame was cast upon my marriage. I couldn’t find the way to tell him what I was thinking and feeling without sounding like a whiny drama queen. Others have been hurt in more horrid ways than I have been. Others have done more deplorable things than I ever have and they feel no remorse. What right did I have to justify hurting myself, and sinning, in this way?
    Last month, about a week before our last session and a little over eleven months since the last time I had burned myself, I started doing it again. The constant thoughts of hurting myself became too much for me to hold back any longer and the things I was doing weren’t giving me the kind of relief I needed. Of course, I felt horribly about it.
    I figured our therapist would have quit if he’d found out. Could you imagine what it feels like to face the possibility of someone, with whom you’ve shared some of your deepest, most intimate of thoughts and shameful experiences, turning you away and requesting that you expose yourself that way to some other stranger? Not even the past bishops that I’ve told my SI struggle to did that. They ignored me, yes, but they didn’t outright tell me to go find someone else to help me before they ignored me. There’s no way I’m making myself so vulnerable to anyone else, again. Not if there’s a better choice.
    To avoid him quitting and giving me a referral, I convinced my husband that we were done with marriage counseling. Then, on the following (and last) session, I told our therapist we were done. I think I was so nervous that I went about it rather rudely.
    He’d helped bring my husband and me to a good point, where we could take what he had taught us and use it to progress in our relationship on our own. He agreed, and let us walk out of his office, just like that. I was surprised and relieved that my plan had worked, but felt like manipulative scum before we made it home.
    He did a lot to help our marriage, and for that I’m eternally grateful to him. I feel bad I for wasting so much of his time when we weren’t focused on my marriage. I feel bad for lying to him about the severity of my SI. I feel bad for being such a horrible client. I’m not so deluded as to think that these things affect him very much, though. He’s likely to forget about me in another week or two, if he hasn’t already. These things affect me, however, because I acted that way. I didn’t do what I was asked, even to help myself.

    So, here I am again, at the beginning of another cycle, praying daily for the strength to get through the day, and to overcome my trials. There’s no telling where I’d be if I couldn’t pray to my Heavenly Father. I know that He and my Savior love me. There are so many blessings in my life that serve as testaments of their love, but I also know that they’re disappointed in me because defiling my body is insulting to that love. I want to go to the temple again to find comfort there, but I don’t think I’m worthy to enter anymore. How could someone that sins this way be worthy to hold a temple recommend?

    I’ve yet to confess to my current bishop what I’m struggling with. There won’t be much of a choice when it’s time to renew my temple recommend, though. When I’ve told bishops in the past, they’ve released me from my callings and forgotten about me. They wouldn’t approach or address me again save it were to say “hello” while passing me in the halls. I wasn’t given other church assignments until we moved to different wards.
    I can’t handle the thought of getting released from my current calling, of being useless and nothing more than a ghost in yet another ward. It’s especially difficult now, since we’re rooted in this area and will remain here for many years. In my mind, not having a calling is synonymous with not being a part of the ward. It’s being another warm body to fill a seat, to boost numbers, but otherwise useless. To put it a different way, it’s like being a wrinkle on someone’s skin. You’re there, but you’re not necessary to make the body function as it should. You’re not even particularly desired. You’re not a real part of what makes that person who they are. You’re superficial, a blemish, a point of shame.

    Comment by anonymous — December 16, 2007 @ 12:59 am

81. I’m so sorry for the long post. I didn’t realize it would take up so much room. :-/

    Comment by anonymous — December 16, 2007 @ 1:09 am

82. Dear anonymous -

    I’m going to tell you some stuff you already know, but you need to hear it.

    1. You’re not sinning. What you’re doing is harmful to yourself and is coming from a dark place inside you, but is not anything that should keep you from getting a temple recommend. If the temple is healing to you, you need to be there, not excluding yourself from it. And you are only excluding yourself from it; there is NO SIN. There is nothing to repent of. There is healing that needs to happen, full stop.

    2. Related to #1 is, do NOT confess your SI to your bishop. He is absolutely not equipped to deal with it, and his reaction will mean much more to you than it should. You need to not think of this in terms of sin, and you need to feel absolutely, completely free to not share it with him. It’s yours to share and you don’t owe it to him. If you want a calling, and you want to serve, you’re already worthy. You are already worthy. Repeat that to yourself whilst looking at yourself in the eyes, in the mirror.

    3. You need to find a different therapist, one who understands your problems and doesn’t try to fit everything into a pre-existing paradigm where your marriage is the only thing that’s impacting your feelings and behaviour. That is absurdly reductive. You need to be in therapy, and you deserve a therapist who believes in YOU. If it’s at all possible, I would look for one outside the LDSSS network. The fact that your therapist couldn’t deal with you? That’s about HIM, not about you. Don’t take that on. You probably should have fired him long before he fired himself — and that kind of language makes me a bit angry, to be honest. No therapist worth your time will be trying to get out of helping you.

    I also believe you should spend some time quietly and alone each day looking yourself in the eye, in the mirror. Look at yourself, not your body, your soul. Look deep into your own eyes. Find the love you have for yourself from within and let it grow. It’s there — find it and let it grow.

    And please, find yourself a therapist YOU like. Just do it. Hang in there, anon. Life can and will get better — not by holding your breath as long as you can, but for good. Truly. Believe in yourself, just a little bit, and let that belief grow. Take the leap.

    Comment by RE — December 16, 2007 @ 9:40 am

83. I really needed to vent last night.
    Thank you, RE, for being so kind.
    I appreciate it.

    Comment by anonymous — December 16, 2007 @ 8:32 pm

84. Anonymous, I just wanted to echo what RE said, and to add that it might take a few tries to find the therapist who is right for you and your needs. Sometimes it helps to get referrals from others who have had similar issues (if you’re in Southern California, my wife and I would be happy to suggest one). At any rate, don’t give up! I hope that you find the peace and healing you deserve.

    Comment by JohnR — December 16, 2007 @ 11:58 pm

85. my school found out, forced me to see the nurse, who got the head to call my mum, who made me go to counciing, who made me feel ashamed, which made me want to cut more. She made me put on weight which made me want to puke more and eat less.They made my parents take my knives, to keep an eye on me, it made me angry, upset and feel bad, i wanted to cut more. I stopped going, tore up letters and lied to my parents. Brought another knife, started going out all the time drinking. I love the freedom, they think im fine. they all think im better. I wish theyd never been told, then they would have kept on ignoring it. everyone thinks im fine, but im worse, i just got better at hiding it. the worst part is the guilt, i feel guilty about everything because i should be perfect. My familys mormon, i dont believe but i go and i even teach lessons because i lied, i said i believed. i feel guilty that im not as perfect as i should be, not as good as i could be. But if i tell them, wont i just feel worse? they will make me go back, try to make me better. even though thats what ive been trying to do for them all these years, be better for them, be perfect. they wont make me better, theyl make me worse again, just make me lie more, make me hide it all more. Make me more guilty, and then it all starts over again. Im not a bad person, i just wish i was better, perfect, meticulus. I wish i could be proud. I dont want to be made to believe in god anymore. i wish i could cut so deep all my sins f low out, everything bad ive ever done could be cleaned up. I wish i could throw up so hard i feel like im about to die. purge myself, be clean. I wish i was so thin that i was beatiful, perfect, see through. i wish i knew if god was real. i hope he’s not. i hope theres no afterlife, no hell and no heaven. When i die i just want to sleep. if its all real i feel so bad. so guilty.

    Comment by chunky munky — April 18, 2008 @ 8:16 am

86. Is anybody there to talk to #85? I am doing a paper for a course in a Counseling Women program and feel like this site has greatly informed me. My step daughter struggles with SI and I have yet to be really helpful to her b/c I am just learning about it. Could someone who knows about the issue show concern for #85? My heart is feeling for her. Your words sound like you are experiencing alot of pain, #85. The only thought that I can offer is to read the blogs before yours to gain insight and to discover possible resources to help you. You have an amazing ability to express what is happening deep within yourself and I believe that your ways of coping also testify of your personal strength. You are trying hard to please your family; I wish you strength in loving and doing for yourself what is best in the long term as well as the short term. Please know that you are in my thoughts.

    Comment by rhonda — June 7, 2008 @ 1:27 pm

87. Trigger warning

    I’m fifteen, and I’m struggling with depression, and SI. I haven’t actually injured myself yet, but it’s getting worse some times I feel like I need to cut myself. I’ve had the urges so strong it scares me. I don’t know what’s wrong with me. I know I am a daughter of god, and I have a strong testimony of the gospel. I feel if I do cut I would be disobeying gods commandments, but sometimes I feel like I need to cut. I don’t know how to explain it any better than that. when I get the urge to cut it makes me feel like I am weak, and like I am sinning. I feel bad about myself. I thought about telling my bishop, but I haven’t. I’ve told two of my friends, and one of my friends recently decided she was going to tell my mom if I didn’t. I’m trying to keep it together, but I feel like telling my mother won’t help anything. I feel like it will just cause unnecessary pain and stress. can somebody help me I don’t know what to do!

    Comment by anonymous — October 25, 2009 @ 6:24 pm

88. Anonymous, please talk to an adult you trust - your Bishop or a YW leader or a teacher or your friend’s mom or someone who can help you. God doesn’t want you to not cut yourself because it would break His commandments - He wants you to not cut yourself because he LOVES you! It sounds like you are dealing with some serious pain you need to release, for your benefit. I am so sorry you are dealing with this. It breaks my heart. Please know that the Lord loves you deeply and wants you to find happiness.

    Comment by Stephanie — October 25, 2009 @ 7:06 pm

89. anonymous, please; when you cut yourself you trigger endorphin release; that is, your body makes chemicals that make you feel better–for awhile, then you have to do it again for the same rush. Here’s a website that has practical advice on how to handle the feelings.

    http://self-injury.net/information-recovery/recovery/how-stop-hurting-yourself

    Here’s some advice from the website that (offered by someone else, but essentially the same) I have found very useful.

    “Feelings often exist for a reason.”
    “Feelings are not always logical or easy to understand.”
    “Feelings are always transitory. Given enough time, they will change or disappear on their own.”

    Because of the characteristics of emotions, your goal is not to escape or avoid emotions, but to find better ways to express, accept, and honor your feelings. If you respect and express your feelings, you are better able to enjoy and cultivate them. And expressing the feelings that are troubling you, may allow you to feel “other more satisfying emotions and pursue ways of living that don’t require [self-injury].

    My advice, accept that you feel like cutting yourself. It makes sense. You are in pain. The feelings don’t mean you’re weak or that you’re sinning. Being fifteen was for me, at least, completely overwhelming. Then do something else to release the very real tension that is causing the anguish.

    Don’t tell the bishop. Just don’t. When I was fifteen and in anguish I was deeply worried that an adult would find out and assume my only all to real anguish was caused by something else. I didn’t tell any adults; I didn’t trust them, as one or two of my friends had tried that route with less than optimal results. I have no idea of who else is in your life, so maybe there is an adult in whom you could confide. But I don’t know. I still don’t trust adults–as I am one myself these days it’s kinda a problem, but it had the beneficial side-effect of teaching me at about your age to rely on myself. I’m always around.

    To function, I have developed various self-soothing techniques, mostly personal. Find something you like–music, crafts, exercise, poetry, writing, philosopy, art–and substitute. It kept me alive. Good luck.

    Comment by djinn — October 25, 2009 @ 7:23 pm

90. I feel to share this experience in the hopes that it will help someone.

    I was deeply depressed for about 8 months and had thoughts/dreams of harming myself. For the first time in my life, I could not feel the love of God. Even though I had not sinned or done anything wrong, I could no longer feel love.

    In desperation, ashamed to admit my problems, I finally asked someone for a priesthood blessing. He did not know my situation, but the first thing he said when he started that blessing was, “I bless you to know that your Heavenly Father loves you, even if you are not able to feel it.”

    It was my biggest struggle, my hardest question. I was touched to the core. Since then, I have come to realize that our Heavenly Father always loves us, no matter what we’ve done, no matter what we’re going through, even if we are not able to feel it. And that is what keeps me moving forward.

    Since then, I have been able to turn those feelings of wanting to hurt myself over to the Savior. I have tried to channel those emotions and allow the Savior to take them from me.

    I believe there is no burden that is too heavy that the Savior cannot carry for us.

    This all was in conjunction with therapy, which is also important and shouldn’t be neglected. But there is that spiritual side of us that longs to be addressed, and that is what I wanted to mention here.

    Comment by Susie — November 2, 2009 @ 7:29 pm

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