fMh Bloggers
fMh Bloggers:
**************************************
Retired Bloggers:
Beth was an original member of fMh. She still follows all the doings at FMH, but retired for a few minor reasons like she works full time in the world of government and politics, has two children, a husband fresh out of law school, and is YW President.
Kris joined in Janurary 2005. She now blogs at BCC.
LisaB joined fMh in August 2005.
Are you accepting new bloggers? I would love to be a contributor.
Comment by Becca — December 9, 2008 @ 2:12 pm
We just added several new bloggers and we try to take these things slow. Submit some guest posts and comment lots so that we can get to know you well.
Comment by fMhLisa — December 11, 2008 @ 10:48 pm
I love all these bios. Most blog bios are long and boring, but these ones are so concise!
Comment by Kaimi — December 11, 2008 @ 11:26 pm
Shut up rabbit!
Comment by fMhLisa — December 12, 2008 @ 2:23 am
Ooh! Intros are up! Very cool.
Comment by Kaimi — December 22, 2008 @ 9:26 pm
Just getting startd with this blogging thing. Ran onto FMH looking for a recipe for (what else) funeral potatoes, loved yours by the way. I now am getting to understand the reason for bloggers. I love it. Thanks so much for the enjoyment, by the way I am 65 and had never made funeral potatoes, WHAT kind of mormon is that!
Comment by carola — January 1, 2009 @ 7:59 pm
Oh man, I’d love to blog here. Can my blog be added to the list on the side?
Comment by Heidi K Bialik — January 14, 2009 @ 6:39 pm
Hi Carola! Welcome to the funtastic potato club.
Heidi submit some guest posts! And which list would you like your blog on?
Comment by fMhLisa — January 15, 2009 @ 11:54 pm
I found you guys a while ago but didn’t have time to read much. I just spent most of my Sunday evening reading various posts and comments. I’m hooked. I had the distinct feeling of coming home to a loving family.
Thank you for creating a “safe place to be feminist and faithful”.
Comment by Angela May — April 26, 2009 @ 7:59 pm
This website is annoying; you are just a bunch of angry ladies that want a reason to complain about life. You expect to have these huge revelations and don’t understand that it takes more than waiting, “doing the right thing”, and “reading the scriptures” Revelation comes when you don’t expect it. You guys get frustrated over the most simple things, and I don’t understand how you are able to call yourselves “Feminist HOUSEWIVES” Do you even know what either are??? There are reasons that I am not a feminist, because I feel that a woman’s job is to be at home with her family and let the husband work, yes I am grateful that I get to vote, and have the same rights as a man, but that does not mean that I want to be a man. I know that my responsibility once I give birth is to be there for my baby. There are reasons that the church gives us these guidelines, they have found that babies that are brought up by their parents instead of strangers have a closer bond with the family. If anything, this blog should be about being a proud woman of God, and feeling amazing that we are given the power to give birth and be the person that those babies can rely on. I am so grateful for this church and these guidelines that are set up for me. I am proud to be a non-feminist republican woman.
Comment by Britt — May 7, 2009 @ 11:27 am
Britt;
Judgmental much?
I am glad that you have it all figured out. I will not parse through your comment, I will simply state that I find the commenters and bloggers here to be open, accepting, and empowering. Even when they disagree they generally do so in a respectful manner. I cannot say the same for your comment.
Comment by newly feminist male — May 7, 2009 @ 11:42 am
Britt, I’d like to turn your attention to Jesus’s words in Luke 11:27-28:
27 As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed! 28 But [Jesus] said, Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it! (ESV)
Did you see that? Jesus didn’t sentimentalize motherhood.
Maybe you shouldn’t either.
Comment by Bridget Jack Meyers — May 7, 2009 @ 11:50 am
Yes Bridget, he wants people that “hear to the word of God and keep it” This is why you are taught when you get married that you put God first, then your husband, then your children, this teaches you that if you love God and your Husband first, then your family will be taken care of. This doesn’t say anything about not sentimentalizing motherhood, that was kind of a lame argument.
Comment by Britt — May 7, 2009 @ 12:07 pm
aw britt…did you read the comment policy?
i’m glad that you are happy with all of your choices and that life makes perfect sense to you. i really am. have fun with it.
for the rest of us….were gonna keep hashing it out right here on the pink pages.
thanks for stopping by.
Comment by mfranti — May 7, 2009 @ 1:31 pm
Britt,
Give it up these women are confused between the clear path that has been taught at church and the teachings offered by pop culture through the media such as “The View”.
They’re angry because they cant make up thier decision as to whether they should follow the teachings of the church or go along with Oprah and the other liberal women of the media so they seem to have been comprimising in order to have both.
I think its funny because the feminist activists of the U.S. have always had close ties to the groups such as the communist party, socialist groups, the black panthers, Code-Pink, Gay Rights Groups and a large number of others who have a history of opposition to the stand and perspectives of the LDS church. I find it very ironic considering one of the oldest women organizations in the nation is the Relief Society.
Comment by Kevin — May 7, 2009 @ 1:38 pm
kevin,
you don’t know me or any one of the regular commenters on this blog.
so how do i say this politely…?
GO AWAY! clearly, fMh is not a good place for you and that’s fine. you can take your opinions to 50 other blogs where they will pat you on the back and say “well said”. you can feel superior and i/we don’t ever have to know.
see? everyone happy.
kthxbye
Comment by mfranti — May 7, 2009 @ 1:48 pm
I have been thinking about Z’s Daughter comment policy- which seems to be very even and replete- they don’t leave up negative or off topic comments- which I like over there- it keeps the discussion very focused and on point. But I also really appreciate seeing the super negative and even bigoted comments (looking at you Kevin) over here because I think there is something valuable in being reminded of just how far we have to go, how very real the voices of oppression are. So, for what it’s worth, I am glad to read these comments and look forward to a day when they are so far removed from reality- we can just laugh at them.
Comment by crazywomancreek — May 7, 2009 @ 1:49 pm
what CWC? you’re not laughing?
i am. why else would i leave that comment up? i thought about leaving it alone but this isn’t really a thread so i said…what the heck…
Comment by mfranti — May 7, 2009 @ 1:53 pm
No. Kevin and Britt make me sad. Ugh. I’ll tell you more when we talk but I have been having an unusually high number of conversations with non Mo friends who believe that all mo’s are like Kevin and Britt. While I definitely don’t make the case that “oh no- all Mo’s are lovely by virtue of their religion” I also feel the sting of being corralled back into the ghetto of subjugation when I read those comments. ugh.
Comment by crazywomancreek — May 7, 2009 @ 2:03 pm
When I see comments like that of Kevin’s, it makes me more grateful for places like fMh to show the diversity not only in society, but in the LDS faith. Does he not realize how threatened he sounds? He probably had a wife who wasn’t comfortable under his thumb. Thanks perma bloggers for giving us a place with a voice.
Comment by incognito — May 7, 2009 @ 2:34 pm
Wait, random commenters get to decide what blogs should be about? (#10)
Well in that case I think that this blog should be about ponies, and their dainty little hooves, and cute snuffly noses!
Yay ponies!!!!!
Comment by Starfoxy — May 7, 2009 @ 2:37 pm
I am not trying to stir things up, I just find it really sad that there are woman that take the liberal side of things instead of realize that their role in a family is to love and nurture the others. If you have to work then you have to work, but if you don’t then you should put your family first. I have a hard time when women decide that being a mom and a wife isn’t enough to keep them happy. It is also really sad to me that all of your views are so liberal, I saw some pictures of ladies with Obama, and read a post about being excited when Clinton won, when these men are trying their best to legalize abortion for UNDERAGE girls to NOT need parental consent. Obama is also a man that voted to have the babies that survive abortions to be killed slowly in order to use their bodies for stem cell research instead of being adopted out to a loving family. I was told a year ago that I would not be able to have kids, fortunately for me I was blessed and am three months pregnant, but if this miracle didn’t work out I would have gone through LDS Adoption agency. Girls should be taught that this is their only option, not abortion. If you can’t take care of it then give it to someone that can. Good job on being Liberal selfish women. Maybe you should actually research why people are not like this before you decide to join these groups.
Comment by Britt — May 7, 2009 @ 3:40 pm
britt…
let me remind you that you are a visitor–a drive by commenter if you will ( i really shouldn’t engage your or kevin)–and you don’t know me or any of the women on this board.
fyi, only a few of us work outside the home. most of us have children.
we are mostly wives who adore their husbands and love being their wive/partner/spouse.
for those of us who aren’t married, we are hoping one day to find a mate and make a family.
some of us like obama, some of us don’t. some of us vote one way and some the another way.
none of us like abortion but realize the real world implications of not letting a women choose what is best for themselves.
i am not selfish. if i had to tally up the hours spend doing this or that for someone, i might…maybe….come in at more hours than you do (don’t you just hate me making a judgment about you without know you at all).
ok. i’m a little selfish…i likes my sleep and can’t stand to be bugged when i doing homework.
britt, please, please, please, if you don’t like what you see at fMh, please don’t look. this is a place for the women that don’t have all of the right answers.
Comment by mfranti — May 7, 2009 @ 3:48 pm
The View! The View is the source of all of the world’s problems! Well, and Commies.
Thanks for straightening that out for us. I’ll just have to remind myself to stop listening to the Supreme Mugwomp of Communism, Elizabeth Hasselback, and then I’m sure I’ll rediscover who I really am.
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 3:52 pm
Starfoxy, I saw the cutest little ponies yesterday. They were adorable, only about 3 feet high and with the cutest little pony faces and hoofs. They almost made me go back on the promise DH and I have made to each other, that our children can have any type of animal they want, except for a pony or a horse. They were just that cute.
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 3:55 pm
Brit, I’m reminded of that old Sting song . . . “I hope the liberals love their children too.”
Come back in, oh, about 8 months, when you’ve been up all night with a newborn, when you’ve worked through those feelings of, “Oh crap, I made the biggest mistake here,” when you are feeling like a machine could easily do your job, and then share your enlightened, elevated views about motherhood. Until you’ve gone through the slog I really don’t want you to tell me how glorious it is. Not when I’m covered in baby vomit (and this sweater has to be handwashed, and like I’ve got time for that) and my hands still smell like the baby’s shit (no matter that I’ve washed them half a dozen times) and I haven’t washed my hair in two days (shower? who can shower with a Houdini toddler in the house?) - And I’m not even the primary caregiver!
Motherhood is a lot of things, and fun and wonderful are right up at the top of my list. But come back here after you’ve experienced some of the not-so-fun-and-wonderful things, and then you can preach it, sister.
All the best for a problem-free pregnancy and a happy, safe birth.
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 4:01 pm
Mfranti, first of all, if you spend time counting up the hours that you spend serving your family, then you are definitely doing all of it for the wrong reason. Maybe women just don’t appreciate the ability of being a mother until it is nearly taken away from them. I see that you stated that young women should choose what is best for themselves, but I don’t see anything Mormon about that. Maybe you guys are confused. As Mormons we don’t kill innocent babies, as Feminists, you usually fight for the right to work and do something. You guys don’t even know or understand what you are blogging about. Why should we give an underage girl the right to choose, young girls don’t know anything about how an abortion affects their body! I would much rather raise a grandbaby for my underage daughter, then to have her go through the pain and suffering the abortion causes, let alone the grief!! Did you not realize that an abortion can cause a girl to never get pregnant again? Did you know that it can make it so the girl has to ultimately get an entire hysterectomy, did you know that it could cause birth defects for future babies??? Why don’t you guys understand that some things should not be left up to the kids rather than give them the ability to make an uneducated decision. There are so many women that can’t have babies and would love to adopt the child and put it in a happy home. So maybe I am selfish because I was about to be one of these ladies, or because I know so many great Mormon ladies that would not have been able to have a baby if it wasn’t for LDS adoption plans.
Comment by Britt — May 7, 2009 @ 4:13 pm
Incidentally this reminds me that I would love to see a demographics poll for FMH readers. Male/Female, age, marital status, kids, career type, church activity level, urban/suburban/rural, etc.
It could be useful information to counter (confirm?) the accusation that we’re all a bunch of apostate willfully childless unmarried harridans.
Again, since random commenters get to dictate blog content, Make it so!
Comment by Starfoxy — May 7, 2009 @ 4:18 pm
Wow Quimby, you just really pissed me off. When you stated to come back when I see the horrors of babies, not just the joy. First of all, I raised my brother from the time he was born until I moved out and got married. I have been puked on, I have dealt with him when we found he had stomach conditions that caused him to be hospitalized for days at a time because he would throw up everything that he ate. I have dealt with him waking up in the middle of the night coughing so bad that I would have to get in a hot shower with him until the steam was able to clear out his lungs, I was there taking him to the hospital when he played too rough with a dog and got bit in the face. If you can say anything negative about motherhood then you shouldn’t be a mother. I know that it isn’t always happy, but I am so ecstatic that I actually get to be a mother that there isn’t any way that I will ever be able to complain. I wish that a dr. told you that you couldn’t have kids, maybe it would make you appreciate your own kids a little more.
Comment by Britt — May 7, 2009 @ 4:20 pm
here stardust, or whatever your name is…
http://feminism.eserver.org/sitemap
This is a website full of statistics for you.
Comment by Britt — May 7, 2009 @ 4:23 pm
Chalk me up as an apostate, willfully childless, selfish, working harridan (though I do love my husband–who cooks, cleans, does laundry, and works with other people’s children while I’m out toiling for filthy lucre to uphold my fancy lifestyle).
I am generally the mascot of selfishness here. Direct all future attacks toward me, if you please.
Comment by EmilyS — May 7, 2009 @ 4:29 pm
This is some top notch, tag team trolling.
Britt and Kevin you are either really good at trolling, or really bad at rational, open-minded conversations. But either way it should be a win-win for you two.
You are both clearly the smartest, most experienced people you interact with, so I suggest you start your own blog, its guaranteed a large audience of at least two. No one else can understand things on your level, so you might need to dumb it down if you want to broaden your appeal.
Good luck
Comment by newly feminist male — May 7, 2009 @ 4:30 pm
Wow Emily, you have an easy life…I feel bad for your husband…working so hard just to support your lifestyle.
Comment by Britt — May 7, 2009 @ 4:30 pm
dearest britt…
do you know what it’s like to be 18, unmarried and pregnant? do you know what it’s like to come from a home where the adults(ha! if you could call them that) called you names and couldn’t wait to get rid of you?
do you know what it’s like to be dating a man (yes, he waas years older) that thought it his right to keep going after you said STOP!!!!
do you?
well, if you did (here, i’m getting really angry. livid is a better word) you might understand why i am pro choice.
go see a quick comment i made on another post.
and i will say that if my 15 or 16 year old daughter came to me and said mamma, i’m pregnant and i don’t want to be a mom. i’d talk with her, propose some solutions, we’d pray, we’d cry, and cry some more and if she still came back and said that she didn’t want the fetus in her body anymore
i drive her to the doctors office and hold her hand through it.
damn you!!!
Comment by mfranti — May 7, 2009 @ 4:31 pm
Oh no she didn’t just say that!
Really? Are you FOR REAL? I have yet to meet a mother - ANY MOTHER - who doesn’t sometimes find something negative to say about motherhood! My own mother - who is as close to a saint as you can get on the face of this earth - commiserates with me when I’m having a rough day and reminds me that it’s all part of motherhood, the good and the bad. Her mother. Her grandmother, who, according to the stories, was so good she could’ve been the Virgin Mary. The women I work with. One woman who volunteers with me has 12 children, yes she does, 12 of the, and is an absolutely wonderful mother, and I love her to pieces because she’s always so understanding when I’m having a tough time with one of my kids. It’s all part of being a mom.
I can only assume it’s the pregnancy hormones talking, my dear. Because otherwise, you have just exposed yourself as being - well, “ignorant” is too kind for it. Oblivious perhaps.
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 4:32 pm
Yes, Britt. One should feel sorry for those who are stuck at home with all of the thankless work while those working out of the home to support their families get all the recognition, all of the money, and all of the power.
PS. Welcome to feminism.
Comment by EmilyS — May 7, 2009 @ 4:33 pm
And, uh, Britt, I came ot my two beautiful children after a long period of infertility. So don’t even go there.
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 4:33 pm
I like that, that’s a nice touch.
Comment by Starfoxy — May 7, 2009 @ 4:34 pm
Sorry Britt, you really crossed the line. All future comments will go through our moderation queue until you can adhere to our comment policy
Comment by Rebecca — May 7, 2009 @ 4:35 pm
Hey stardust - can I have a pony?
Comment by EmilyS — May 7, 2009 @ 4:36 pm
Yeah, mfranti, it’s the devil’s plan to give us free agency!
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 4:39 pm
I don’t know what it is like to be 18 and pregnant and with a much older man, but I know that I would do what is right for the baby. Why don’t you guys read a little about the church and the church’s policy for abortion. I do know what it is like however to not have great parents which is why I raised my unhealthy baby brother. have fun killing those babies. I am done.
Comment by Britt — May 7, 2009 @ 4:40 pm
I found one for you, but you have to name it Twinkletoes!
Comment by Starfoxy — May 7, 2009 @ 4:41 pm
quim, roll out the church policy regarding abortion please…
yes. i’m a baby killer. and puppy killer too.
and pony killer.
by
Comment by mfranti — May 7, 2009 @ 4:42 pm
oooh, starfoxy obviously wants you to have a gay pony!
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 4:43 pm
You mean there’s other kinds of ponies?
Comment by Starfoxy — May 7, 2009 @ 4:44 pm
..and you might want to spend more time (just using your own words and logic here)
reading the first four books in the new testament. there was this guy…can’t think of his name right now but he talked about love, and acceptance, and not pretending to know it all…
someone. help with with his name *snaps her fingers*
Comment by mfranti — May 7, 2009 @ 4:45 pm
I don’t believe in killing babies. I wait until they’re born and then I eat them.
Speaking of which, yesterday, on the radio, a male politician actually accused a female politician of eating babies. It was a joke, sure, but can you believe he actually said it ON AIR?!?!? Whooboy is he going to be in trouble for that one!
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 4:45 pm
quimby, i wasn’t gonna go there.
look, agency only applies to political discussions about tax policy.
it doesn’t apply to freedom to make moral/ethical decisions. that’s why we need the pious right wing to make those decisions and be mommy and daddy for us.
Comment by mfranti — May 7, 2009 @ 4:48 pm
Well, yeah, obviously, There are also lesbian ponies.
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 4:54 pm
mfranti - you gotta love a litmus test!
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 4:55 pm
I guess since yall do not pay attention to the first presidency or the scriptures or any gospel principles then I will make it easy for you. Below is a link to the official statement from the first presidency regarding abortions.
http://www.mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/basic-beliefs/glossary/glossary-definition/abortion
Prochoice stand does not fight for the right to have an abortion as a medical need but as an alternative to form of birth control. The prochoice laws are set to make it as wide spread availible for whatever reason. The pro-choice amendments to the abortion laws have attempted to allow minors to go through the process without any counsel from her doctor or parents.
Pro-life laws do not ban the act of having an abortion all together but prevents the wide practice and avialibility of it as the alternative of birth control.
The pro-life laws are compatible with the stance that the LDS Church has.
It seems you are all unaware of the health risks and consequences directly related to abortions, and so to help you out below is a link to the common risks:
http://www.afterabortion.org/physica.html
There was mention that both Britt and I are closed minded but in reality some of the comments in here make it obvious that some are being closed minded to the alternatives to abortion and closed minded to the counsel of the first presidency.
Comment by Kevin — May 7, 2009 @ 4:58 pm
The only mothers I’ve known unable to say anything negative about motherhood were depressed.I’m concerned for you Britt.
Comment by wayfarer — May 7, 2009 @ 4:59 pm
well kevin,
that’s all well and good for TBM’s but the rest of the united states doesn’t believe in a prophet or first presidency.
so now what? would you like to legislate the church handbook into law so that everyone will live you you do?
hmmmm?
i’ve got my reasons for supporting a woman’s right to choose. very personal reasons too.
i suppose if i came up in an LDS home where all the answers were always presented in neat and tidy packages i might have similar views to yours. who knows?
but i didn’t and i sure as helll wasn’t going to change my position on several things because i got dunked.
and…since you own a penis and not a uterus, how could you possibley know how a desperate woman is feeling when she learns she is pregnant? (c’mon it’s an obvious question)
Comment by mfranti — May 7, 2009 @ 5:04 pm
Kevin, if that was the extent of pro-life legislation, probably 98% of us (me included) would be fine with that. Instead, pro-lifers try to introduce legislation that would give women few rights when it comes to making medical or reproductive choices - trying to outlaw all forms of birth control, or inbsisting that husbands have a say in their wife’s medical procedures, etc. That is not about the fetus; it is about control.
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 5:06 pm
(I should add I define health of the mother to include mental health.)
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 5:08 pm
Interesting. So then you dont consider yourself a member of the church? or You are a member who has no faith in the church? or a member who is not willing to stand up for what you believe in?
Either way it seems obvious to me that you are all as mormon as the FLDS members who still practice polygamy, and may as well create your own religion. I think its a shame that there is an attitude amongst you to be so apologetic towards the LDS beliefs.
I guess the words of Barbara Walters and Rosie O’ Donnell really are more important to yall than those of the prophets.
Comment by Kevin — May 7, 2009 @ 5:13 pm
Ok. Now I’m laughing mfranti.
Comment by crazywomancreek — May 7, 2009 @ 5:16 pm
Kevin,
1) I still think you are trolling
2) I am a male, and I am assuming that you are the same. I cannot begin to understand how scary it is to be pregnant. I know how scared I was when my wife got pregnant and we were trying to start our family. My heart goes out to any woman facing that challenge alone.
3) Broad sweeping generalizations such as “It seems you are all unaware of the health risks and consequences”, or “I guess since yall do not pay attention to the first presidency or the scriptures or any gospel principles then I will make it easy for you.” Are going to be wrong most of the time and make you look like a jerk.
4) If you are not a troll, then why would a peaceful, loving, anti-feminist male waste his time here. Because I am going to warn you, if you read the comments and posts on here long enough “it” might rub off on you.
I think there are a few other websites out there, you might want to look into them.
Comment by newly feminist male — May 7, 2009 @ 5:19 pm
I mean, I would be laughing if I wasn’t so gull durn busy dismantling my alter to Barbara Walters and WHoopi Goldberg. I knew the prayer beads in glitter was a mistake. It’s just that when my husband is out working, I’m so busy popping bon- bon’s, crafting altars to secular godesses and what else? oh right, munching on my delectable toddler who stands between me and happiness, or was it fulfills my every desire? anyway, I haven’t had the TIME to listen to a proper lecture on what I aought to be doing so I am afraid this altar is HUGE and will take some time to pull down.
Comment by crazywomancreek — May 7, 2009 @ 5:21 pm
By the way Quimby, I dont have a uterus and I wont ever know the feeling of despair or worry that a woman has to go through in order to give birth or go through pregnancy. From a male perspective I am very well aware as to how stressful it is to take on the role of being a father and husband to someone who is going through that situation. Still the easy way out is never easy and dealing with these hardships is why we are here to be tried and tested. I think this is why it is important to push forward when we are met with opposition.
Quimby did you take a look at the link regarding the health issues surrounding an abortion? I realize the spiritual aspect is not as big of a concern to you as the health issues so maybe that might open you up to consider other options.
Pro-life is not all about control. Its about preventing more hardships for those who may otherwise go through an abortion without much preparation. Its about reducing unecessary risk.
Comment by Kevin — May 7, 2009 @ 5:23 pm
Okay Kevin, let’s assume for a moment that it is right to legislate morality, how on earth does one go about legislating or enforcing a rape exception?
Wait until the trial is over and a rapist has been convicted? By that time you might have a baby already.
And what if the trial fails to convict? That doesn’t mean she wasn’t raped (OJ Simpson taught us all that failure to convict is not proof of innocence).
Okay so we’ll require medical evidence that she was raped. What if she was raped at gun point, or while unconscious there would be no physical indication that the encounter wasn’t consensual.
Alright, then we’ll say she has to press charges. Wouldn’t that just provide incentive to women to ‘cry rape’ as so many people think women are wont to do? All those women who just want to use abortion as birth control will just say they were raped right?
Comment by Starfoxy — May 7, 2009 @ 5:26 pm
Kevin, I didn’t make the uterus comment. Look, I don’t know you from Adam, and while some of your opinions (like the comments about The View - a show I don’t watch) seem a bit odd, overall, you’re probably a very nice guy and I have to assume (because I’m decent like that) that you love your family very much, and they love you.
The spiritual concerns are important. They certainly are. But only to people who share my own spiritual beliefs. I don’t believe that religious law should be used as a basis for secular law. It gets too messy: Whose religion? What laws?
As for the health aspects - If you look into the debate and get information from both sides, you’ll find that a lot of the things that are discussed in that link, aren’t really true or at the very least are greatly over-stated. Look, every medical procedure has complications. But most legal abortions are fairly straight-forward and don’t come with a raft of medical complications.
What is important to me is this: A woman who is desperate will have an abortion, whether or not it’s legal. (Indeed there is scant evidence that making it illegal actually changes the abortion rates.) An illegal abortion can kill the mother and child both. Hardly an ideal outcome.
What is important to me is this: We need to address the reasons women find themselves with unwanted pregnancy: everything, from low self-esteem on the part of teenage girls that makes them jump into the bed of the first man to pay attention to them; to poverty; to lack of birth control options. The whole gammut.
Then, we can sit down and draft fair laws that only allow exceptions in case of rape or health of mother or child (the church does allow abortion in some cases if the child will not survive or will suffer greatly and die shortly after birth).
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 5:30 pm
A teen-aged girl had an abortion of twins, knowing they were deformed and underdeveloped due to medication she was taking. She did not consult her bishop, only her Mormon parents and her boyfriends Catholic parents. The decision was made without church leadership. She did not lose her membership in the church.
Comment by shakti — May 7, 2009 @ 5:36 pm
Quick interjection-
That, and to have tranquility and confidence enough to live and let live. Thanks for letting me lurk here!
This is the sort of playground that often invites a bloodthirsty game of king of the moral hill/highground. Having been reared in an LDS community a little lacking in diversity and acceptance at times, I have very much enjoyed hearing a multitude of voices expressing their struggles on individual paths to finding truth and becoming better. I, for one, have hardly any answers, and appreciate earnest and respectful comments from all over the spectrum. I have learned the value of your peaceful, loving discourse and disagreement, and hopefully I’ll learn how to do it at some point as well
Comment by Moniker Challenged — May 7, 2009 @ 5:40 pm
It is an unfortunate thing about the polarizing nature of this debate though- i’ve known one woman who had an abortion who really grieved and regretted her decision- but there were extenuating circumstances- they botched it the first time- but the many many women i know who’ve had abortions- some of them multiple- have actually felt deep relief and peace about their decisions.
i wish there was more latitude for pro-choice women to say “i was really sad about my abortion” and for pro life women to say “i was grateful for my abortion.”
Comment by crazywomancreek — May 7, 2009 @ 5:42 pm
Thats a great example for someone unfamiliar with the procedures surrounding law enforcements approach to rape victims.
The reality is that morality is actually quite common when drafting new legislation.
In the course of a reported rape there are requirements that must be imediately met by the investigator below is a link to an example of these requirements:
http://www.hampshire.police.uk/NR/rdonlyres/A6F8901F-03A6-46F6-A3E5-1964FDBB0752/0/10401.pdf
These procedures in consideration are done as a means to gain evidence to build a case, and to medically confirm that the rape did take place. These rape victims are given needed attention to help them with the healing process both physically and mentally.
In this special case the emotions of the victim are a very big issue that must be given consideration and in some cases due to physical and medical need an abortion might be needed.
Not just anyone would be able to go in and say I was raped and in that same day get an abortion without any investigation.
The moment a rape is reported there is legal obligation for the police to complete the minimum investigation requirements.
Comment by Kevin — May 7, 2009 @ 5:43 pm
shakti, that is great she didn’t lose membership, it takes a lot to lose membership, my dad lost membership.
What I don’t like is that We are all here because we are all mormon. Why are you guys ok with letting the government decide on abortion in your own homes instead of taking the higher road and letting the prophet guide your families decision. You guys are all listening to the government instead of the church.
Comment by Britt — May 7, 2009 @ 5:45 pm
crazy woman creak, maybe your friends should try condoms or birth control..
Comment by Britt — May 7, 2009 @ 5:46 pm
some people don’t even realize they were violated until long after the fact.
kevin. it’s obvious that you know it all and have all the right answers (how many times have i said that today?)
i hope that your daughters or sisters or nieces never find themselves unmarried and pregnant.
Comment by mfranti — May 7, 2009 @ 5:50 pm
Kevin, I know this sounds stupid, but “rape” can mean different things in different circumstances.
There’s forced rape; there’s date or acquaintance rape; there’s also the slightly murky area of “I felt coerced into sex, did I really consent or didn’t I”.
And not all women who have been raped - even forcibly rape - want to file a police report. Indeed in some places filing the report is more stigmatising than just keeping it quiet and hidden. (Indeed in some countries women who report they’ve been raped are likely to be raped by the very police they report it to.)
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 5:50 pm
or stoned to death…
Comment by mfranti — May 7, 2009 @ 5:51 pm
or forced to marry their rapists
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 5:53 pm
Well, in the case that rape occurs there is a legal investigation that occurs. If the victim is not willing to report the rape then the life of an unborn child should not be jeapordized.
Comment by Kevin — May 7, 2009 @ 5:55 pm
The victim can certainly put it up for adoption, and there are numerous people who would love to take on the responsibility of raising it.
Comment by Kevin — May 7, 2009 @ 5:56 pm
Huh. So if a woman feels too traumatised by the rape to report it, she should just have to accept the trauma of carrying any child that might result from it.
Kevin, you really have a lot to learn about rape.
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 5:56 pm
Two wrongs dont make a right.
Comment by Kevin — May 7, 2009 @ 5:56 pm
It is sad though.
Comment by Kevin — May 7, 2009 @ 5:57 pm
Absolutely. If it is not reported then it didnt happen. Thats a whole other topic because when crimes are not reported solutions can not take place.
Comment by Kevin — May 7, 2009 @ 5:59 pm
Okay, so someone can’t just cry rape and be taken seriously (who knew? Seriously I thought vindictive women cried rape all the time).
My point is *who decides* that a woman was or was not raped (and therefore should get access to an abortion)? The courts? The doctor? A judge? The police?
I think we should let *her* decide if it was or wasn’t rape and let *her* decide to do the right thing. Looser laws governing rape prevent the revictimization of rape victims by making it so that they don’t have to jump through all the hoops at the dog and pony show to prove that they are worthy enough to get medical treatment.
Comment by Starfoxy — May 7, 2009 @ 5:59 pm
All of that is very true. It is also true that my body is sovereign. I do not accept that there is a person or entity that can compel me to bear a child. Even though I think the decision is deeply personal and deeply private I made it a point to tell people that I was having genetic screening done when I was pregnant because there were circumstances that I might terminate my pregnancy. There are many women who cannot speak out and claim that right. I am grateful for my adopted child and grateful for my biological child. I would not say I was grateful for the choice to have children because I think- in the narrow sense that I am referencing- that the right is inalienable- not granted to me by my virtue- but claimed by my existence. Too high flown? eh.
Comment by crazywomancreek — May 7, 2009 @ 6:00 pm
So the rape victim is too tramatized to report a violent crime against her but its no big deal to go through an abortion which in itself is yet another violent practice.
Comment by Kevin — May 7, 2009 @ 6:01 pm
Ahem, looser laws governing abortion.
Comment by Starfoxy — May 7, 2009 @ 6:01 pm
Wow. I’m busy for the day and look at all the crazy fun I’m missing out on.
Way-back-to-#13-Britt: This doesn’t say anything about not sentimentalizing motherhood, that was kind of a lame argument.
If being a Mommy was really God’s #1 priority for half the human race, Luke 11:27-28 was where Christ would have said so. Instead He corrects the woman who praises motherhood, clarifying that keeping the word of God (i.e. discipleship) is the #1 priority for women and everyone else. If motherhood was the primary vessel of female discipleship, as you try to argue, there would have been no need to draw a distinction between the two.
Motherhood is just one part of the potential discipleship equation. Elevating it over the rest to the virtual exclusion of everything else, now that’s a lame argument.
Anyways, I’m gone for the rest of the day, you ladies have fun with these ones.
Comment by Bridget Jack Meyers — May 7, 2009 @ 6:03 pm
Nuance, you vile fiend
You shattered the blade Surety
Wielded in my youth
Comment by Moniker Challenged — May 7, 2009 @ 6:03 pm
and Quimby, I know someone that was raped and kept it, that girl is my hero, I think that it was the most amazing thing to watch. She was in high school and was ridiculed, but knew that she wasn’t going to commit murder, so she kept it then adopted it out to a loving family.
Comment by Britt — May 7, 2009 @ 6:04 pm
nice! moniker challenged!
Comment by crazywomancreek — May 7, 2009 @ 6:05 pm
Kevin, you said, “I wont ever know the feeling of despair or worry that a woman has to go through in order to give birth or go through pregnancy”
You can’t understand this with a wanted pregnancy. Can you imagine how those feelings would change if a woman was raped and then was expected to carry the baby and feel it move within her, knowing it is from being raped. Every move a reminder of a vicious act committed against her. Then she gets to deal with the judgment of people who don’t understand her, and aren’t going to try to understand.
Comment by shakti — May 7, 2009 @ 6:06 pm
Bridget, that is why I went on to say that it is God should be number one, then your husband, then children. That is his plan. If you follow this plan then your family will fall into place.
Comment by Britt — May 7, 2009 @ 6:07 pm
Easy Kevin - no one is saying abortions are no big deal. It’s insulting to trivialize such a difficult, traumatic decision. Please don’t.
Comment by Bewitched — May 7, 2009 @ 6:09 pm
Ew. Kevin and Britt are gross.
That comment is so disgusting, it might have just given me the swine flu.
Also….
*cue high whiny voice*
Why does every discussion of feminism invariably devolve into a discussion of abortion? Roe v. Wade, people! It’s settled! Can we discuss something else now?! \
I’m a lot more interested in statistics like this:
50-65-10-1
The UN did a study and found that women are about 50% of the world’s population, do 65% of the world’s work, earn 10% of the world’s income, and hold 1% of the world’s wealth.
WTF? I need me a bullhorn.
Comment by Natalie K. — May 7, 2009 @ 6:26 pm
Ah, Natalie, I thought you were just reporting the perfect stats for a woman’s figure - breasts, 50, waist, 65, hips, 10, and, er, still trying to work the 1 in there . . .
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 6:31 pm
Quimby, the breakdown might be more like, breasts 50, legs 65, hips 10, and waist 1. Gotta hide any evidence of all those babies you are dutifully popping out and enjoying every second of.
Comment by Natalie K. — May 7, 2009 @ 6:34 pm
Well I gotta say I am amazed at the level of ignorance displayed on this discussion.
Britt and Kevin seem to be very convinced about their take on abortion, and not too concerned for the individual situations at hand. I think thats kind of interesting that they got on that topic, but what they should really be wondering is why are there so many stupid feminists in Mormon church?
I thought Mormons were against any and all forms of liberalism? I guess some Mormons are open minded, cause yall all obviously opened your mind and then filled it with garbage.
Comment by Jeff — May 7, 2009 @ 7:07 pm
When I was in High School I was raped . I was very scared and was not sure what I was going to do about the situation, I didn’t want anyone to know. I felt that it was all my fault. There were many thoughts that crossed my mind when I found out that I was pregnant. What was my mother going to think? What kind of mother would I be? Am I fit to be a mom? Out of all the things that crossed my mind I never, never let the thought of abortion cross my mind. I am very happy that I was raised in the Church, life has not always been easy and I know that it is not supposed to be. We are not perfect beings whatsoever! I needed to have the faith in Heavenly Father that he will help give me strength in this very trying time where I felt extremely weak. I went through many emotions of whether or not I should keep my baby or give it up for adoption. Before I ever even let my family know that I was pregnant, after praying diligently I was able to strongly make a decision to give my baby up for adoption. It wasn’t easy letting my mom know what happened. I went to church very embarrassed at times not wanting people to talk about my progression of my pregnancy. But I now can deeply tell you that I am truly blessed and so is that baby that I decided to not abort but instead give to a family that desperately wanted to have a family but needed to adopt for medical reasons. After I went through all I went through with having bare a child, I got my feelings hurt at church and stopped going for a while. I never denied the LDS church I was just confused. I was able to go through the repentance process and I do not by any means feel that I am a perfect person. I have many faults and know that I will continue to have many trials on this earth life. I have taking the time to truly read the Book of Mormon when I went through my repentance process. I feel that I have a great knowledge and understanding of the atonement of our sins that Christ went through for each of us individually.
I heard about this blog a few months ago, this is my first time visiting the site out of curiousity. I am just a little confused about why if you claim to be Mormon, someone would need to debate something that really should not be debatable? The first Presidency of the Church is appointed by God, if you do not feel that the things that they say or the teaching of the LDS church is true then why claim to be Mormon? I strongly believe that abortion has completely sky rocketed especially in America! I understand that its hard on those women to have the consequences of rape but I feel that abortion is only an excuse and actually hurts someone more. When someone is raped, therapy should be the answer. Americans are so set on trying to get immediate resolutions and in the long run it only causes a bigger mess. As a LDS Mormon women you should want to stand out and strong.
We are beloved spirit daughters of God, and our lives have meaning, purpose, and direction. As a worldwide sisterhood, we are united in our devotion to Jesus Christ, our Savior and Exemplar. We are women of faith, virtue, vision, and charity who:
Increase our testimonies of Jesus Christ through prayer and scripture study.
Seek spiritual strength by following the promptings of the Holy Ghost.
Dedicate ourselves to strengthening marriages, families, and homes.
Find nobility in motherhood and joy in womanhood.
Delight in service and good works.
Love life and learning.
Stand for truth and righteousness.
Sustain the priesthood as the authority of God on earth.
Rejoice in the blessings of the temple, understand our divine destiny, and strive for exaltation.
Comment by Lauren — May 7, 2009 @ 7:12 pm
I am surprised to see how many people believe our church is one of black and white, good and evil, wrong and right. There are many gray areas of the church and in many of those areas things are between one person and the Lord. They are not between the Lord that one person and the 1000’s of others condemning them. I frequent this site very often and am so surprised how “good Mormons” stop by briefly and pass judgment.
Comment by shakti — May 7, 2009 @ 7:20 pm
Jeff, you generalize and make assumptions. I too will do that to play the game with you. I can only think of one Jeff I have ever known who was not shallow and lacking intelligence, and you are not it. Move on, Lauren may have more to say and we wouldn’t want your tiny vocabulary to grow on the sites account.
Comment by incognito — May 7, 2009 @ 7:23 pm
Jeff, you crossed the line in your comment to Lauren. She opened up and shared something very personal and close to her heart. She deserves to be treated with respect and to hear her voice heard.
You can insult me all you want. I don’t give a crap, I’ve got thick skin. But this is the first time I’ve ever seen Lauren comment here, and to comment with something so personal - she deserves to have her experience respected, not to have it dismissed so cruelly as you have done.
Lauren, I respect anyone who has been raped and decided to go through with a resulting pregnancy. I think it is a very noble thing to do and certainly not something that should be made fun of or dismissed. It was a considerable sacrifice on your part. I do hope that when you said you “repented” you were speaking of your period of inactivity and not of being raped because - just in case you haven’t heard this (and I’m sure you have, but perhaps there’s someone else out there in a similar situation who needs to hear it) - It wasn’t your fault and you have no need to repent of being raped.
Comment by Quimby — May 7, 2009 @ 7:25 pm
its cool i just wanted to find a few mormons to bash. I was pretty excited to find some liberal mormons two types of annoying people put into one.
Comment by Jeff — May 7, 2009 @ 7:27 pm
This position is not the church’s stance and is actually *more* restrictive than the church’s position which says that a rape is an acceptable reason to have an abortion.
Again, I don’t think anyone here is saying “hey everyone should have abortions! They’re the best!” Like many others here I support the church’s position on abortion, and fully agree that good members of the church and other moral people would consider abortion only as a last resort and only in the extreme cases outlined by the church.
That said, my beliefs do not need to be enshrined in law- and I believe that trying to do so would only lead to more harm.
Comment by Starfoxy — May 7, 2009 @ 7:32 pm
i think this is a case of sarcasm being so heavily laden it circles around and bites itself on the bum. that is -i believe- jeff was saying ya’ll (feminist mormons) aren’t REAL mormons- so lauren should not waste her time on you. he wasn’t disparaging HER he was disparaging YOU. so he was sincere in that she should write a book but thought sharing with us was casting pearls before swine. eh. for what it’s worth.
Comment by crazywomancreek — May 7, 2009 @ 7:35 pm
oops. i may have been wrong.
Comment by crazywomancreek — May 7, 2009 @ 7:37 pm
FMHs, I’m pretty sure that one or two trolls are just playing with you. I mean, really, what’s the chances of four brand-new commenters suddenly finding the same five-month-old archive post today, and spontaneously deciding to weigh in with comments calculated to get a reaction? Most likely, you’ve got 1 or 2 trolls looking to pick a fight, and the rest are sock puppets.
There’s nothing to be gained from this discussion, they’re not interested in dialog, they’re just here to try to get a reaction. The sooner you cut off the trolls, the better.
Comment by Kaimi — May 7, 2009 @ 7:48 pm
I just want to make one last ditch effort to clear up the church’s view on abortion, because I care about yall.
please read this its from Elder Russell M. Nelson Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=b4b8db98e2b9c110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&hideNav=1
Comment by kevin — May 7, 2009 @ 8:09 pm
Kev,
Sure. It’s standard LDS doctrine that abortion is a sin. Absolutely. No one is disagreeing with that.
Of course, there are lots of sins in LDS doctrine. For instance:
-Sex outside of marriage.
-Smoking tobacco.
-Not paying your tithing.
-Taking the Lord’s name in vain.
-Drinking alcohol.
-Atheism.
-Ditching Sunday School to hang out in the foyer and talk about basketball.
Clearly, not all sins are illegal acts. Legal rules doesn’t — and shouldn’t — perfectly match with religious rules. When they perfectly match, it’s called theocracy.
So, yes. Abortion = a sin. No one disagrees with that.
But that doesn’t show that it should be against the law.
Comment by Kaimi — May 7, 2009 @ 8:20 pm
99 Doh! Kev and Jeff may be the same person but I think Britt is real. I can’t believe I fell for it!
Comment by crazywomancreek — May 7, 2009 @ 9:11 pm
Sorry Crazy woman but my name is Kevin and always has been.
Comment by kevin — May 7, 2009 @ 9:18 pm
Well Kaimi I guess you missed what I was trying to explain which is that we as members should support laws that reflect our religious beliefs. I guess that is not important to anyone here.
Comment by kevin — May 7, 2009 @ 9:23 pm
This thread gives me a headache. Just a few comments:
I always knew I shouldn’t be a mother. I don’t know why I’ve been kidding myself all these years. Britt, when you are pregnant with #5 and exhausted from being up from 5:30 a.m. to 11 at night just to take care of the bare necessesities (not including cleaning the bathrooms, which hasn’t been done for &^*^$*(#& long), and your husband is gone all the time because he’s fulfilling his noble, righteous roles of provider and priesthood leader (which he loves) while you are at home every minute of every stinking day because you dutifully gave up your career to devote your life to motherhood (which you are finding out that you don’t love all that much - not the motherhood, but the role of “housewife”), well, then, you come back and tell me again how I am unfit to be a mother because I can find a few negative things to say. In the meantime, I have four beautiful boys (8 and under) you may borrow for a few weeks (months). They don’t need nearly as much sleep as you do. They have an affinity for potty talk, naked body talk, endless talk about penises. They obey occassionally. You need to keep them “anxiously engaged in a good cause”. Otherwise, they will destroy your things, your house, each other. Be prepared to get NOTHING done because you will spend all day cleaning up spilled chocolate milk (sticky like nothing else), juice out of the carpet, mud out of the carpet, fish crackers smashed into the couch, pee behind the toilet, etc. etc. But, you will LOVE it. I just know it. So, give me a call when you are ready. I need a break.
I think this is the most clearly I have understood the LDS pro-choice perspective. It is sad that although we essentially believe the same thing, the extremists on either side keep us from reaching a consensus. I think if I could have “my way”, I would prefer a law similar to the church position but without a burden of proof and without the ability to convict. Sure, it wouldn’t be much of a law, but I like the idea of society taking a stand that abortion shouldn’t happen except in cases of rape, incest, danger to the mother’s health, etc. And then leave it up to the woman herself to decide. That sounds to me to be almost exactly what people like Quimby want, too. And yet I can’t go as far as to say I am pro-choice because it just doesn’t feel right to me. But, I can understand why some would.
Natalie K, that is a discouraging statistic. And yet entirely too true. My mom is in poverty after devoting her life to motherhood. My dad is living the high life (actually living off another woman, who has a high powered career). My mom always says that she is the “rich” one because she has been blessed to be with her children. There is a lot of truth to that, but it isn’t fair that women who sacrifice their careers and bread-earning potential get shafted. If men really truly valued the their work, the wealth created by the bread-earner would be shared.
Jeff’s comment must have been deleted. I didn’t get a chance to read it, but I think I am glad. Because, Jeff, you are a jerk (and I usually hold myself to a higher standard than calling names).
Funny how some days I feel like a feminist, and some days I don’t. Today, after reading this thread, I do.
Comment by Stephanie — May 7, 2009 @ 9:23 pm
Move to Wyoming, Stephanie. I’d bring you chocolate, massage your feet and take your kids to the park. I’d also whisper, “sisterhood is powerful” to your belly.
Comment by crazywomancreek — May 7, 2009 @ 9:37 pm
“It is sad that although we essentially believe the same thing, the extremists on either side keep us from reaching a consensus.”
Stephanie- I agree 100%. I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately- we have two polar sides fighting against each other and we miss out on actually solving any problems.
It seems like neither major political party really want solutions, because then what could they fight about/scare/control their followers with. We ought to focus on the reasons women seek abortions, and fix those issues.
There’s a quote in an Elder Oaks talk that I love:
“Every woman has, within the limits of nature, the right to choose what will or will not happen to her body. Every woman has, at the same time, the responsibility for the way she uses her body. If by her choice she behaves in such a way that a human fetus is conceived, she has not only the right to but also the responsibility for that fetus. If it is an unwanted pregnancy, she is not justified in ending it with the claim that it interferes with her right to choose. She herself chose what would happen to her body by risking pregnancy. She had her choice. If she has no better reason, her conscience should tell her that abortion would be a highly irresponsible choice.
“What constitutes a good reason? Since a human fetus has intrinsic and infinite human value, the only good reason for an abortion would be the violation or deprivation of or the threat to the woman’s right to choose what will or will not happen to her body. Social, educational, financial, and personal considerations alone do not outweigh the value of the life that is in the fetus. These considerations by themselves may properly lead to the decision to place the baby for adoption after its birth, but not to end its existence in utero.
“The woman’s right to choose what will or will not happen to her body is obviously violated by rape or incest. When conception results in such a case, the woman has the moral as well as the legal right to an abortion because the condition of pregnancy is the result of someone else’s irresponsibility, not hers. She does not have to take responsibility for it. To force her by law to carry the fetus to term would be a further violation of her right. She also has the right to refuse an abortion. This would give her the right to the fetus and also the responsibility for it. She could later relinquish this right and this responsibility through the process of placing the baby for adoption after it is born. Whichever way is a responsible choice.”
The man who wrote those words also applied the same reasoning to the other exceptions allowed by our doctrine—life of the mother and a baby that will not survive birth.”
Comment by Alliegator — May 7, 2009 @ 9:44 pm
Alliegator I apprecieate your post.
Comment by kevin — May 7, 2009 @ 9:52 pm
Thanks, CWC. Watch out - I might crawl my way to Wyoming for that!
I am beginning to believe this as well.
Comment by Stephanie — May 7, 2009 @ 10:07 pm
If the law doesn’t actually do anything, why bother? Why waste time, paper, etc creating laws that don’t actually have any weight, any measures or consequences?
I hate message legislation. It isn’t the role of government to make statements. Society should make statements; people and organizations can and should talk about the gravity of the decision to have an abortion. The Church is absolutely right to discourage abortion and talk about the sanctity of life within the context of individuals making decisions. The government should take concrete steps towards reducing the need for abortion–primarily by making sure that women have access to the health care and material support necessary to give birth and raise children. Anything that is just a “statement” isn’t worth the time.
Comment by Derek — May 7, 2009 @ 10:08 pm
Good point, Derek. I guess I just don’t like things the way they are right now, but changing the law wouldn’t necessarily change society.
Comment by Stephanie — May 7, 2009 @ 10:12 pm
i absolutely agree!!
Comment by mfranti — May 7, 2009 @ 10:17 pm
stephanie,
i’m sorry you’re having a rough go this pregnancy
but i think your comments have been the best ones of the night. thank you for sharing.
Comment by mfranti — May 7, 2009 @ 10:22 pm
re: 111
I think if the Pro Life movement were more concerned with using persuasion and moral support to discourage abortion, society would be more likely to change. It is because the Pro Life movement is dominated by the hard-liner crowd, which advocates a position far more restrictive than that which you advocate (and with which I essentially agree), and which is so focused on stigmatizing unwed mothers and mischaracterizing the Pro Choice position, that the debate is poisoned and no progress is made.
Comment by Derek — May 7, 2009 @ 10:56 pm
Stephanie- I’m sending you a virtual day at the spa, and perpetual maid service. I don’t know how you are doing all that at the same time you are pregnant. Your sharing about the day to day realities and hardships of being a mother are far more affirming than someone wearing the perfectly-happy-smiley face mommy backpack. The wonderous myth of motherhood is exactly that- a myth. It’s a damn hard job and it’s not for sissies.
Comment by Kimberly — May 8, 2009 @ 6:30 am
Stephanie, by deciding to get pregnant that first time, you asked to hold that responsibility of motherhood. you decided to give up your life, and have your days and nights go to your husband and children. I understand the responsibility that it takes to be a mother. I went through surgery, pain, and tears to become pregnant. After two years of trying I finally was able to conceive and hold it. I know that boys are hard, and that no matter what kind of parent you are they are always going to be crazy, my older brother is an angel, and my younger brother lived to torment people. Two total opposites. My mom would say that she is tired or “that was embarrassing”, but she never once complained about her kids. (even in sacrament when my older brother put his hand on the younger ones leg and the boy yelled out to the entire ward GARRETT, STOP TOUCHING MY WEINER!!) The reason I raised my youngest brother was because my mom had medical issues that confined her to the bed for a year after having him, we had help during the day, but when I got home from school it was me taking care of this little sick baby, with another young brother running the house like he was king of the bad boy mountain, slapping, yelling, and fighting his way on everything.
Basically, I know what I am getting myself into, I have been a mom since I was 14. I know that there are hard times, I am not saying that it is going to be a piece of cake. I am just saying that I want to be known as a mom that never says anything negative about my kids, kids get that enough at school. I know they will mess up, but they are human just like me, I have definitely not been perfect all my life. I am young, I am only 22 and pregnant with my first child, and I have been trying for two years, but I am doing this because it is my last chance to get pregnant. I might never have this opportunity again. So now you know why I cry when a girl decides for an abortion, that could have been my second child. It is sad to see girls take advantage of the opportunity to get pregnant, when it comes so hard for others. If you were told that you couldn’t get pregnant before you had kids, then maybe you would understand the tears that I have.
About Abortion, I know that pregnancy is hard, I am at 15 weeks and still throwing up everything I eat. Last night I was up all night throwing up like crazy (I don’t think I will have an issue waking up to my baby, I currently run on 4 hours of sleep then go to my demanding job where people don’t understand) I know my body will change. I was a size 3 before being pregnant, and I am realizing that only Victoria secret models ever get their perfect shape back without stretch marks. I am officially going to have the body of a mom. It is sad for young girls to go through these things when they are in high school, but if they got too close to their boyfriend, they shouldn’t take the easy way out and damage their body in ways that can be unfixable. If someone is not prepared for motherhood there are other forms of protection. There is birth control, condoms, and abstinence. It is important for girls to know the damage that abortions cause. Alligator did make a great point about the special cases for rape, but I think that Lauren is such a great person for realizing that it wasn’t the babies fault, and the baby has a life and deserves to live it. My dr. calls the baby a baby from the first moment you get a positive reading on the test, not a fetus. I think that it is derogatory to call it a fetus.
My main concern for this group is that you are all pro-choice, but you put this churches name in the front. I don’t feel that this is right because it is against our beliefs to support this, and it just does not look good.
I really did cry last night after seeing all of these comments on how some of you mothers would take your daughter and hold there hand through the abortion, instead of holding their hair through the morning sickness. I feel bad for all of the babies that have been killed because some teenager had sex and didn’t think to use contraception devices. Help your children live well, and make good decisions.
Mfrany, I understand that you had some pretty hard times, I don’t know if you were sharing a personal story about being with an older man that was disrespectful, and that your parents wanted you out of the house. I know people with similar situations, and the conclusion that I came up with was that it will teach you to do better with your kids. It will help you realize if your daughter is in a situation like that, and it will help you get her out of it.
Joseph smith said “no tiny seed is lost in the kingdom of God” This was so special to me when I went through my miscarriages, to know that the church also recognizes that a baby is a baby, not a fetus.
Comment by Britt — May 8, 2009 @ 11:18 am
I’d like to point out that Elder Oaks said that EITHER choice (abortion, or adoption) is a RESPONSIBLE choice in cases of rape. It has nothing to do with whose fault it is, or what the fetus/baby deserves. If God thinks either choice is AOK, who are we to judge.
Also, not all people here are pro-choice. Personally, I’m neither. I’m pro-responsibility. Responsibility on the part of parents, teachers, and government to provide young people with accurate information and access to birth control/plan b for whoever needs it. It’s not realistic to not teach young people, or make birth control inaccessible and force them into a corner.
I’d like for no one to ever feel like abortion was their only choice, but our government, society, heath care system, political ping ponging have made it that way.
Comment by Alliegator — May 8, 2009 @ 4:05 pm
Thank you Alliegator, I appreciate that comment
Comment by Britt — May 8, 2009 @ 4:15 pm
Derek #115
Exactly so. It has been demonstrated statistically that the number of abortions actually go DOWN during democrat presidencies and UP during republican ones. One of the presumed reasons for this is that aid to families with dependent children tends to be more easiliy accessible during democrat presidencies. Even though democrats tend to work to make abortion more readily available to those who want it, they concurrently work (speaking in generalities) to increase knowledge of and access to birth control methods, and to ease the flow of public assistance to parents who are in need.
These things tend to work together to promote a climate in which women who become pregnant under less-than-ideal circumstances are far more likely to take the risk of carrying their pregnancies to term, rather than choosing to abort them.
Comment by Lorian — May 8, 2009 @ 5:35 pm
By the way, Britt, do I know you from somewhere else? You wouldn’t happen to have twins, would you?
Comment by Lorian — May 8, 2009 @ 5:36 pm
Hey Britt, just a couple of things. First off, we are not all pro-choice. And for a lot that are, it has nothing to do with going against the Church’s teachings or believing that abortion is a good thing (I doubt many people believe it’s good). But it is good to have that choice because, as has already been pointed out, there are cases in which it is necessary.
Many people are pro-choice simply because they don’t want the government telling them what they can and can’t do with their bodies. My point is, there are many reasons for being pro-choice and “I love abortions” probably aren’t one of them. So it’s unkind for you to come in here and start accusing us of being all abortion happy and not being good Mormons, (which I gathered is what you were saying).
Also, if you had come in here sharing your story first, helping us understand your strong feelings on the matter, instead of blazing in and attacking us troll style, the conversation would have gone much better. In that there actually could have been a nice, adult conversation.
And lastly, you said,
You originally said you shouldn’t say anything negative about motherhood.
Two totally. separate. things.
Comment by Bewitched — May 8, 2009 @ 5:41 pm
Britt, the funny thing is that we likely have a lot in common. I frequently get to be the conservative punching bag on this site. I hear what you are saying. You believe in the divine role of motherhood. You accept your responsibility as outlined in the Family Proclamation to nurture your children. You put your husband and children first. You value the sanctity of life. You feel the need to “stand for truth and righteousness”. I believe and feel the same way on all accounts. But, in conveying your points, it might help to not be so condescending, particularly when you are so young and inexperienced (and I admit I’m not that much older – just 10 years). The gospel is perfect – people are not. It seems to me that this site addresses the tension that creates.
Did I ever say otherwise? Don’t patronize me. I have accepted the responsibility of motherhood, have given up EVERYTHING for it (including good health – better hope that doesn’t happen to you), and probably would not go back and change any of my decisions because they were all confirmed through the Lord. However, I also had no idea how utterly exhausted I would be.
Well, I hope so. I am the oldest of 6. My mom was on bedrest for pregnancies 3-6. I started doing laundry when I was 3 (no - I am not kidding. My mom was pregnant with #3, and I have pictures to prove it). My dad left when I was 14. 3 of my siblings have lived with me on and off. Most recently was my youngest brother who lived with me for 3 years while in high school and before leaving on his mission. You would think that with all of that “experience”, I, too, would have “understood” the responsibility. But, being a mom takes a lot more than I ever thought it did. It sure makes me appreciate my mom a whole lot more.
Has anyone on this site said anything negative about their children? I can’t think of a single woman/man on this site who complains about their kids and says negative things about them. There is a world of difference between that and saying, “There are aspects of motherhood that really suck”. A big part of why I enjoy being on this site is because I can be “real” here. I can take off my “Happy Mormon Mommy” face and express my true feelings about what a hard time I am having.
Oh, and my boys yell stuff about their wieners practically every Sacrament meeting. People just don’t even blink an eye anymore.
You are right, Britt, I can’t say that I understand the pain of infertility. It has not been my trial. But, that doesn’t mean that I take abortion lightly. Out of the two major “sides”, I fall on the side of “pro-life” and strongly support the church’s position. (If you are interested, I’ve written a few posts about my thoughts. Here, here and here.) Basically, I am not comfortable with current abortion laws in the U.S. that allow for abortions for any reason, but I also am not comfortable with the extreme right pro-life position (I am thinking of the little 9 year old girl in another country who was raped and granted an abortion. Religious people protested and I believe she and her family may have been kicked out of their church?). I have a lot of sympathy for the pro-choice arguments put forth (particularly on this thread) - not advocating for abortion as a form of birth control, but saying, “When yucky stuff happens to a woman (rape, incest, pregnancy threatening her life, etc.), WHO should be responsible for making the choice of whether or not the woman should stay pregnant?” The church doesn’t even advocate that decision being made by someone in the government. In the case of rape, I am leery of anyone making that decision except for the woman who was raped. And, still, there are a lot of laws in the U.S. I disagree with. I do agree with you that teenage girls need their parents’ involvement to prevent pregnancy and decide what to do when pregnant - I am not comfortable with laws that say teenagers can get an abortion without their parents’ consent. I think it opens the teenage girls up to potential abuse by older men.
I bet that if we take the time to stop yelling at each other and just listen, we can learn a lot.
I was doing my MBA and flying all over the country for job interviews when I was pregnant with my first (while deciding whether to work or stay at home). I thought I was tired. It was nothing compared to this. And I am sure there are moms who are more exhausted than I am who keep going.
I sincerely hope that motherhood is a bed of roses for you, Britt. If/when it’s not, feel free to come back and vent a little. We won’t pass judgement – just recognize you for human.
Comment by Stephanie — May 8, 2009 @ 5:42 pm
Alliegator - Pro-responsibility. I like that. Think I’ll use that one if ya don’t mind.
Comment by Bewitched — May 8, 2009 @ 5:44 pm
I should really know better, but I just can’t help myself today.
Britt,
You’re letting your personal experiences be your sole consideration in this issue. I have a sister I raised since I was ten. I watched as people closest to me got pregnant as teenagers. I had a doctor tell me I would never get pregnant. I tried for eight years to have a baby with miscarriages and surgeries and drugs and pain and heartbreak all along the way. I had my son last year and he was born three months premature, I nearly died, and he now has cerebral palsy. I feel like if there is ANYONE on this planet who has an understanding of the entire abortion issue, from all sides of things, it would be me.
And I am pro-choice. Because I need access to safe, legal abortion to potentially save my life. And I’ve been and known far too many sexually abused women to ever heap any more consequences upon them as just a fact.
I think I really started to understand you when I read: “So now you know why I cry when a girl decides for an abortion, that could have been my second child.”
I’m afraid life just doesn’t work that way. It is totally, beyond the pale unfair, but it’s a fact. No matter how much we want children, we are not *entitled* to them. Mothering children is not a basic human right. It’s just not. The baby that gets sent to a home that doesn’t want it is not a baby that is taken from our heavenly stockpile. And if a woman decides that for whatever combination of very good reasons there could be that she cannot go through the rigors of pregnancy and birth and face giving up a child, that has nothing to do with us. That is her family, her body, her decision. We do not come into the decision making process for her.
We have to work through our grief at our own adversity without comparing ourselves to anyone else, or blaming anyone else for our tragedy. One thing I’ve learned in my marathon fertility challenge is that as hard as our lack of fertility is on us, as often as we ache and cry and rail at the heavens, an abundance of fertility can be every bit as hard in a different set of circumstances.
Comment by reese — May 8, 2009 @ 5:47 pm
And thank you, mfranti and Kimberly. When my honey gets home, I think I will take a nap and “enjoy” my virtual spa.
Comment by Stephanie — May 8, 2009 @ 5:48 pm
I don’t think children should be made to feel they’re perfect.
I don’t think they should be criticised in front of other people, but if you make your children feel they’re perfect, you have a whole other set of problems.
Don’t believe me? Come back here in 3 years and re-read your posts, Britt, and then you’ll get it.
Comment by Quimby — May 8, 2009 @ 6:40 pm
Reese,
you said,
“And I am pro-choice. Because I need access to safe, legal abortion to potentially save my life. And I’ve been and known far too many sexually abused women to ever heap any more consequences upon them as just a fact.”
I wanted to mention that those are the same reasons pro-life laws permit abortion. The major difference between pro-life and pro-choice are based on the focus of regulations.
There are extreme groups from both sides but the general pro-life and the general pro-choice differ on the level of convenience and the branding of abortion as a carefree option versus a last resort option.
Comment by kevin — May 8, 2009 @ 6:48 pm
Certainly it does. But Stephanie, you’re a good mom. If one of your kids ever came to you to say his girlfriend/she was pregnant you’d be there for them. What of the teens with crappy parents who would abuse them or (in some cultures) murder them in the name of ‘honor’?
So what’s the solution? I don’t know. I do know that if all kids had parents like you or mfranti, it’d be a non-issue.
Comment by Quimby — May 8, 2009 @ 7:06 pm
I don’t know either, Quimby. The world is such a scary place.
Comment by Stephanie — May 8, 2009 @ 7:09 pm
Or the parent who is a fault for the pregnancy itself. One of my best friends was raped at 16 because her mother decided it was time for her to be rid of her virginity and found a 21 year old man to relieve her of it. As it happens, she’d already been raped by her brother and a few of his friends so the deflowering was unnecessary. And the saddest part is that she didn’t really have a concept that it was wrong, that it was rape, that she could say no, or go to the police. She had no concept that she had a right to control her body, can you imagine telling her then that her mother had the right to decide if she could have an abortion, and how much further that would have undermined her ability to understand that she had a right to control her own body. That was twenty years ago and she still struggles with feeling like it’s all her fault. That she didn’t scream or run away or protest, that she went, she submitted, because her mother told her to. It’s just so ugly.
Not to mention the many girls who become pregnant with their own half sibling/child. Should those fathers have the right to also control their daughters decision about the resulting pregnancy?
It’s a sad sad world.
Comment by fmhLisa — May 8, 2009 @ 7:28 pm
Oops, Britt, my apologies. I asked if you were the person I know with twins before I finished reading back through the thread and saw that you have struggled with infertility and are pregnant with your first. I went through 7 years of infertility treatment before finally conceiving my twins, so my heart goes out to you for the difficulties you’ve encountered. Blessings on your pregnancy.
Comment by Lorian — May 8, 2009 @ 8:33 pm
Lisa, what a heartbreak.
This reminds me of the sickening story from Brazil a month or two ago about a 9-year-old, pregnant with twins by her step”father,” who’d been raping her routinely since the age of 6. When her pregnancy was discovered at about 15 weeks, doctors told her mother she wouldn’t survive if they did not perform a therapeutic abortion. The mother of the 9-year-old and the doctors have since been excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church. The step”father” is still in good standing. Makes me want to throw up.
There are good reasons for making abortions available to young girls without parental consent. In this case, the mother did give consent, but there are other cases where girls are raped by fathers, brothers, mom’s boyfriend, etc., and would be further abused if they turned up pregnant, with often-times, mom blaming the girl for the sexual abuse.
Comment by Lorian — May 8, 2009 @ 8:38 pm
That really got to me, too, Lorian - that the man who had raped a 9 year old was considered to have committed less of a sin than the doctors who performed the abortion, the mother who allowed the abortion, or the child who had the abortion.
Lisa, your story just makes me sick to my stomach. What sort of mother would do that to her child? I can’t even imagine the myriad of ways that would screw up a person.
Comment by Quimby — May 8, 2009 @ 10:12 pm
I didn’t know that part about the stepfather being in good standing in the church. Disgusting. He isn’t in jail for life?
Comment by Stephanie — May 9, 2009 @ 9:06 am
Stephanie, I just did a quick search and the step-father is in custody and facing up to 15 years in jail. The girl was not excommunicated because she is not an adult in the eyes of the church.
The little girl was carrying twins, and her doctors said that the birth would kill her. The church’s response? She should have had a cesarean.
Comment by Quimby — May 9, 2009 @ 3:34 pm
That’s just wrong. I am grateful it is not my church saying that.
Comment by Stephanie — May 9, 2009 @ 7:51 pm
Yes, and it wasn’t the birth which would kill her; it was simply carrying the pregnancy to a point at which the babies could be safely delivered.
As a person who had an emergency c-section when my twins were 33 weeks gestation, I can attest to the fact that carrying a twin pregnancy CAN kill you, even when you are an adult. I nearly died, and I’m by no means a petite woman. I cannot imagine a 9-year-old being able to carry twins to term without, at the very least, significant damage to her body and health, and most likely significant risk that she will die in the attempt.
And yeah, the step”father” was judged by the church to have committed a lesser crime than was committed by the girl’s mother and doctors. He CREATED life, after all, where they DESTROYED it. It’s too bad you cannot see my saracastic eye-roll.
This particular story is one which gives me a nearly uncontrolable twitch to burst out with vile obscenities in re the step”father” and the church authorities who so callously disregard the sanctity of this little 9-year-old child’s life. Sanctity of life, my arse.
Comment by Lorian — May 9, 2009 @ 8:43 pm
Hello,
I found this blog and I find it fascinating and I think that the internet could do with a few more blogs like this. I am not a Mormon, nor a houswife, or even an American, however I am a woman and I would consider myself a feminist . That being said, I wonder if anyone could answer a couple of questions I have about the LDS church which would help to put these discussions in context:
1 - a lot of the posts talk about the patriarchal and sexist attitudes and beliefs of the church and I was hoping that someone could explain what exactly these were.
2 - what does DH stand for? I am having a problem with a few of the acronyms actually, also GA
3 - What is ’sealing’?
I hope someone can answer these. I am finding your website very interesting and enlightening but a little confusing for those who came to the party late. I hope I have posted this in the right place.
Thanks,
Serenity
Comment by serenity — May 30, 2009 @ 2:48 pm
serenity, welcome to fmh… I will let someone else answer your first question, but I can answer some of the rest.
2.DH- darling husband, dear husband
GA-General Authority, (one of our spiritual leaders/prophets)
3. In our religion, when we make the choice to get married, it is normally performed in our temples. There is a special ceremony that seals us to our spouse for all time and eternity. Which means we will still be married to our spouse after we die. In our beliefs that furthers us to become like God.
Comment by Sunshine — May 30, 2009 @ 3:17 pm
My DH has a funny DH story. During the time we were trying to have a baby, I was poking around on a usenet group for infertility (not posting, just reading.) DH was reading over my shoulder one day and was just stunned that not just one, but ALL of these infertile women seemed to have a DH. He’s a baseball fan, and to him, a DH was a Designated Hitter.
Comment by Ann — May 30, 2009 @ 3:45 pm
Both my DH and i became pro choice through our struggles with infertility. Those years were long and not fun but our views of what constitutes “a person” changed radically as we educated ourselves about human reproduction. my OBGYN at the time, who is also a member was most definitely pro choice. When it came time to go the in vitro route we were told under no uncertain terms would i be allowed to carry more than 2 fetuses if more than 2 implanted. As it happened we conceived the month before our first appointment down the in vitro road.
i just kinda try not to tell other people how to live their lives anymore. i live mine in the burbs with DH and 4 babes as best i can. i still have a lot of opinions, i just no longer need to have all the answers or know the one true way.
i lurk here now and then, communing by osmosis i guess. i left the fold 4 years ago but i don’t know… sometimes i need this place. Sometimes i need to remember what it was like. i do wish i had known about this place before i left, i think it would have helped me feel at least somewhat validated. Like there was at least one place where i had a voice. Maybe i come here because it makes looking back feel less lonely to know all that time there were other women who also didn’t have all the answers and weren’t afraid to ask questions.
Anyway… back to lurking and again i’m glad this place exists. Its needed.
Comment by StepfordWife — May 30, 2009 @ 4:31 pm
hi! my name is not Solange Brune and of course it is not actually that but i can say that i do own this name and have since i was 6 years old—so in a way this is just another way addressing me. enough of that said—i am 50+years old and i live in the midwest and have been a member of the LDS church since i was 8 years old. i don’t know exactly when i came to know that i was/am a feminist but i do know that once i revealed myself to my fellow sisters in my ward at that time that i was received with rolling eyes, crossed arms, sideways glances and a swiftly sharp change of the subject. other than discussing my opinions and displeasure at home i have pretty much stayed underground as a feminist for many decades, except on campus (i am currently a full-time student seeking my degrees at a late age. i want to thank you for being here and i have written this comment without even reading any of the comments contained here but because of the anonymity of the site—i already feel that i am among kindred spirits.
Comment by Solange Brune — June 11, 2009 @ 6:27 pm
Umm, you mean us men have nothing to do with birth?
Righteousness does NOT have anything to do with the ability to give birth. There’s righteous sterile people, and unrighteous fertile people.
There’s more for women & men to do than just having children!
“Proud woman of God” can REALLY open one to pride, in a bad, bad way: “I am more faithful than you since my children have better SAT scores”, “I am better than you since I make better casseroles”, etc.
I’m a 50 year old man, LDS even, Moderate, and I like to explore a variety of subjects.
Comment by Mike H. — June 16, 2009 @ 1:46 am
Birth? No. Fertilization…sure, go ahead and take some credit for that.
Comment by Kimberly — June 16, 2009 @ 7:51 am
Did any of this come from J. Edgar Hoover, the one who couldn’t find a tie between M. L. King & communism, even after hundreds of phone taps? Because of such lack of links, I have a dim view of trying to link all those together.
It’s amazing to be told WHAT you believe before someone even gets to know you.
OK. I was there for the births of all 4 of our children. It amazes me still how many men in the Church talk about how great they are as fathers, but chicken out at the Delivery Room!
I have some extended family history about that. My mother’s parent had 9 miscarriages & stillborn pregnancies. We now know it was due to anemia from lack of Vitamin B-12.
Are any of you going to crassly say “if they would have been more faithful, all those pregnancies would have been full term healthy births”? They did all the “right” things of being LDS.
Comment by Mike H. — June 16, 2009 @ 12:43 pm
Oh, and here’s a GREAT pictures that fits well on this site:
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1973/satandinner2.jpg
I hope this causes more laughs than anger!
Comment by Mike H. — June 22, 2009 @ 1:36 pm
Comment by Lorian — June 22, 2009 @ 2:59 pm
oh goodness, I need that framed in my kitchen.
Comment by fmhLisa — June 22, 2009 @ 3:08 pm
LOL, my husband - who is a stay at home dad so he really is a great father - didn’t want to be in the delivery room. I told him if I had to be there, he had to be there. With #2 because it was planned c-section I joked that I’d drive in in the morning and he could come in later on. He thought that was a fine idea.
Comment by Quimby — June 22, 2009 @ 3:41 pm
I don’t really want my husband there until the very end. He’s too impatient and keeps reminding me that someone else is watching our kids, so I need to speed it up.
Comment by Stephanie — June 22, 2009 @ 3:49 pm
Oy, that’s helpful, Stephanie!
Mike H, that picture is almost as funny as my bit of Russian propaganda that says, “Down with kitchen slavery!”
Comment by Quimby — June 22, 2009 @ 3:53 pm
I hope you’re kidding! Since my wife tended towards fast labor, I was always worried being sent home by the doctor & being told to come back when she was further along. The amount of labor she had went from 8 hours the first time down to around 4 hours for 2 of the 3 next ones.
Lorian, Lisa & Quimby: I got that picture from the signature of a woman on an auto enthusiasts web site. I found it very clever, and I think it needs to be shared here.
Oh, I did see a sign at one workplace that said:”The beatings will continue until morale improves.”
Comment by Mike H. — June 22, 2009 @ 4:01 pm
That one belongs in the bedroom, not the kitchen.
(Did I just type that?)
Comment by Quimby — June 22, 2009 @ 4:03 pm
Wow, Quimby, I didn’t think you were the type to… …aw, never mind!
This place does need a dose of humor now & then.
If I could find a way to post that picture in #150 directly here, I will be causing massive computer equipment damage from various beverages sprayed all over that equipment.
Comment by Mike H. — June 22, 2009 @ 6:11 pm
157-
Quimby, ever since I have arrived on this site there has been a thought that has bashed me upside the head in regards to you.
You are seriously awesome. You remind me so much of my friends.
Comment by Elina — June 22, 2009 @ 6:51 pm
A c-section I’m not as sure about if I could take that. There are a couple of even worse surgeries that I would not want to see: Debris, & a D&C. Something about painful removal of tissue.
Yes, Quimby, you do some out of the box thinking & humor.
Comment by Mike H. — June 22, 2009 @ 8:46 pm
Mike, they put up a curtain, so DH didn’t actually see anything. Baby’s first photo is as he’s being lifted up above the curtain. But you know how some babies are born with really engorged genitalia? Yeah. Let’s just say that nobody’s going to see that photo (except his future wife, wink wink).
Comment by Quimby — June 22, 2009 @ 8:49 pm
this place?
how long have you been hanging ’round here?
Comment by mfranti — June 22, 2009 @ 9:08 pm
A little over a week. I was thinking how ugly & mean the “Reconciliation” blog got. But, some of the others have been fine.
Also, Funeral Potatoes: My wife, my mother, and a few others went on a recent Temple trip. I mentioned Funeral Potatoes, and some of them had heard about that dish. But, there was a good laugh as I mentioned that when I first saw that recipe, I thought it had something to do with poisoning someone! !
Comment by Mike H. — June 22, 2009 @ 9:15 pm
Oh, things get heated and sometimes they get ugly, but nobody really means anything by it. (At least I don’t.) Here’s a tip - I respond well to humour. If I’m getting too mean for your liking make a joke. (It doesn’t have to be dirty, but it certainly doesn’t hurt.) As Shakespeare so eloquently put it, all the world’s a stage and the players merely stand-up comedians. Or something like that.
Comment by Quimby — June 22, 2009 @ 9:18 pm
Welcome Mike!
i was worried you had been lurking for a while and didn’t know that the ladies of fmh are a lively bunch.
you must! read fmh lisa’s posts on parenting. she is always good for a laugh.
and i always try to insert some humor on the more serious threads. usually it’s lost in the comments but I get a good laugh anyways.
Comment by mfranti — June 22, 2009 @ 9:21 pm
Well, right about now the “Do you dress you family in…” topic has turned hilarious…
Comment by Mike H. — June 23, 2009 @ 2:27 am
A change of subject, since I don’t know where else to post this here:
http://mormonmatters.org/2009/06/23/bloggernacle-rankings-bcc-is-1/
So, fMH is known to be out & about on the web
Comment by Mike H. — June 24, 2009 @ 10:35 pm
I’m just curious, is “bloggernacle” just a nickname for mormon blogs, or is it a particular group?
Comment by Kimarie — June 24, 2009 @ 11:03 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloggernacle
And, an inside scoop on the blog
:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_Mormon_Housewives
I learned a few new things from these links.
Comment by Mike H. — June 25, 2009 @ 7:33 pm
woot woot! how did i miss this? here is the nyt article on fmh and lisa.
did you know that if you are ever mentioned in the nyt they run your obituary? so go ahead and shoot for the ck, but if you fall short at least you still get the nyt…
Comment by crazywomancreek — June 25, 2009 @ 7:48 pm
CWC: That link is broken.
Comment by Mike H. — June 25, 2009 @ 9:46 pm
argh.
Comment by crazywomancreek — June 25, 2009 @ 9:55 pm
i give up.
Comment by crazywomancreek — June 25, 2009 @ 9:55 pm
You mean I’m not the only one that has posting a link problems?
Comment by Mike H. — June 25, 2009 @ 10:06 pm
will. not. be. defeated…
Faithful Track Questions, Answers and Minutiae on Blogs
By DEBRA NUSSBAUM COHEN
Published: March 5, 2005
Correction Appended
In many ways, Lisa Butterworth is the very image of Mormon devotion; she lives in Boise, Idaho, with her husband and their three children younger than 4, faithfully attending church and teaching Sunday school.
But then there is her Web log, or blog, FeministMormonHousewives.blogspot.com. Unlike the more mainstream Mormon blogs - known collectively as the Bloggernacle - that by and large promote the faith, this online diary focuses on the universal challenges of mothering young children and on frustration with the limited roles women have in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
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“I was getting really frustrated at church because I couldn’t talk about a lot of things that were bothering me about history, about feminism,” said the 30-year-old Ms. Butterworth, who started the blog last August with four friends. “I wasn’t interested in bashing the church; I wanted to find something that could be faithful, liberal and feminist. I didn’t find that, so I created it.”
Like the best religion-driven blogs, hers offers a peek into lives that many are curious about but that relatively few lead.
It is also one of a growing number of religion-oriented blogs, many of them irreverent and contrarian, and all serving as a meeting point for the like-minded.
To some bloggers of faith, the medium provides a vehicle for evangelism. For others, it is an opportunity to educate. For many, it is a way to get their beliefs into the public square and, with people who comment on their postings, wrestle with the issues of the day. In some blogs, particularly those of conservative Christians, political and religious beliefs are intertwined.
But whether conservative or liberal, most religion-based blogs seem to be created by people on the extremes of the religious spectrum.
“People who blog tend to be the kind who already have firm opinions and a certain world-view,” said Kathy Shaidle, a self-described “conservative Catholic Gen-Xer” and founder of RelapsedCatholic.com.
While the Internet addresses of many blogs look much like those of other Web sites, blogs are fluid and interactive and create conversation and debate, rather than simply present information.
No one knows precisely how many blogs there are, but a recent study by the Pew Internet and American Life Project found that roughly eight million American adults have created them. Lee Rainie, director of the project, estimates that 10 percent to 20 percent of those are related to religion. “There are blogs for Wiccans, blogs on the Talmud, and blogs for mainstream and nonmainstream denominations,” Mr. Rainie said. “They run a very broad spectrum of institutional connection.”
There are also blogs by Christians of every denomination, Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs. One hub, Blogs4God.com, lists 1,230 Christian blogs. Jeff Sharlet, editor of The Revealer, a daily online review of religion in the news, said there had even been an Amish blog.
Though most religion-related blogs have been content to talk theology and church politics, religious bloggers are starting to realize the potential of their collective power.
Christian God bloggers are planning to gather, for the first time, at a GodBlogCon at Biola University in La Mirada, Calif., Oct. 13 to 15. Planned workshops include “Blogging Pastors” and “Using Blogs for Online Activism and Evangelism.” More information is available on the blog SmartChristian.com.
Religious blogs give a public voice to people who otherwise might not have one, like Fatima Mohammed, a recent college graduate in Milwaukee. Ms. Mohammed, 24, is an observant Muslim who prays five times a day, dresses modestly and wears hijab to cover her hair.
In her blog, LoveThyUmmah.com - Ummah means “the Muslim community” - “I’m speaking from the perspective of a young Muslim woman in America. It’s a unique outlet,” Ms. Mohammed said. “The blog lets me get my voice out there.”
Many blogs, particularly those by the most fervently religious, are anonymous.
Aidel Maidel, whose nom-de-blog means “Nice Jewish Girl” (aidelmaidel.blogspot.com), posts about the ups and downs of being a working religious mother who is fairly new to Hasidic life.
She guards her anonymity because it lets her write things that some in her community might perceive as less than flattering, which could potentially compromise her daughters’ ability to marry well, she said, though they are now respectively an infant and a toddler.
She started it in August 2003, at a time when “I had a lot of things going on in my life and I didn’t feel like I had an outlet anywhere else.”
“It was a place for me to vent,” she said. “Blogging provided me with a real space where I could say what I wanted and nobody would judge me.”
For a few religious bloggers, online endeavors have become more than an outlet.
For Gordon Atkinson, a Baptist minister, it has led to a book. Mr. Atkinson, the spiritual leader of Covenant Baptist Church in San Antonio, has an unconventional religious blog, RealLivePreacher.com. In occasionally salty language, he relates his theological struggles, ideas for sermon titles and car-pooling experiences.
He began blogging in December 2002 because it provided a place to write, but kept it anonymous so as not to hurt his parishioners’ feelings. After being identified, he decided to continue it anyway. A Christian publisher, Eerdman’s, soon invited him to assemble his essays in book form, and in October it published RealLivePreacher.com, the book.
Mr. Atkinson is one of a swelling pool of pastors entering the blogosphere. With more than one million reader visits since his blog began, he is also one of the most successful. His writing is “about how faith and life meet in nonreligious ways,” he said, adding, “I hope not to be very churchy.”
For Joe Carter of Fort Worth, blogging has led to a new career. Mr. Carter is moving, with his wife and daughter, to Chicago, where he is about to begin work in a newly created position as manager of Internet development at the evangelical Christian Center for Bio-Ethics and Human Dignity.
After 16 years in the Marines, he posted on his blog, EvangelicalOutpost.com, that he was trying to figure out what to do next. Dozens of people quickly wrote with suggestions; one was a job at the center.
“Blogging really opened up a new world for me,” Mr. Carter said.
In addition to the job, “it generated a new sense of community that I didn’t otherwise have” he said. “In newspapers you don’t have the same interconnection with readers.”
Between unpacking boxes and posting on his blog, Mr. Carter is getting ready for his new job, which starts Monday. The center’s new Internet development plan for outreach, he said, “may possibly even include blogs.”
Correction: March 9, 2005, Wednesday:
The Religion Journal column on Saturday, about the growth of religious Web logs, misstated the Web address of a site by a Muslim woman, Fatima Mohammed. It is www.mos-love.blogspot.com, not Love ThyUmmah.com.
Comment by crazywomancreek — June 25, 2009 @ 10:12 pm
Bloggernacle vote time!!
http://mormonmatters.org/2009/06/28/welcome-to-the-niblets-nominations/
Comment by Mike H. — June 29, 2009 @ 1:57 pm
who’s taking care of Britts fam while she;s taking the time to attack FMH readers
Comment by Ally — November 17, 2009 @ 7:47 pm
What Britt misses in her first post was that being a feminist does not necessarily mean you are pro-choice. I am a “liberal Democrat” except when it come to one issue-abortion. I think its wrong and think it happens way to much and that we need to EDUCATE women and young girls on the alternatives and preventive methods. HOWEVER, I do not think it should be made illegal and I think it is to circumstantial to put any restrictions on it. We don’t know the reasoning and struggles a woman goes through before she decides to abort. I really don’t believe you can understand something like that until you have been there. From her comments though she is the type of person who can’t see anything past their own experiences so I don’t except her opinion to be very thoughtful.
Comment by Brittany — November 17, 2009 @ 10:11 pm
Really nice site. Hope to visit it again soon
Comment by priscupetus — February 11, 2010 @ 12:49 am
oh, dear! What happened to Quimby? Please let her know that she is missed.
Comment by Sonia — February 16, 2010 @ 8:46 pm
Why isn’t hkobeal listed here?
Comment by Mike H. — March 24, 2010 @ 5:29 pm
so why do you think so?
Comment by affistsep — April 4, 2010 @ 5:16 am
Also agree with the author, all true.
Comment by Jobde — April 14, 2010 @ 11:34 am
a little more and I will join you
Comment by Xedows — May 31, 2010 @ 5:43 pm
Absolutely agree with previous reports
Comment by 2bcgbn9 — June 27, 2010 @ 9:09 am